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Prospal's play and the gentleman's agreement

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Old
07-01-2013, 09:17 AM
  #201
slightlystewpid420
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Originally Posted by Kev22 View Post
Color me skeptical about trades. If we weren't willing to pay the price at the draft, the prices are probably not going to change, I'm not sure we're willing to pay the price afterwards. Yesterday was the perfect opportunity to show the rest of the league Columbus means business and from that standpoint, it was a failure. I'm not talking about the players drafted, from all accounts we had a great draft, I'm talking about what wasn't done. It was disappointing in my book. I think we're looking at going to the market and that is usually not good news. I would think this increases Vinny's chances of being back with the club next season.
How can you say that? You have no idea how the talks went, who was involved or the prices for the players JK wanted. If everyone was making outrageous offers and Jarmo stood strong, than it was an outright success. Sometimes doing nothing is the best thing you can do. We drafted 3 very high potential (2 safe picks 1 homerun swing) and setup the franchise for the next 3-5 years. The Nash trade didn't happen until after the draft last year. Waiting until after the draft is not a bad idea, yes we have 3 less pieces to work with(I would imagine none of them will be moved anyway) but it gives you a better sense of direction in where you want to go with the future of the club.

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07-01-2013, 09:20 AM
  #202
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Originally Posted by Kev22 View Post
Color me skeptical about trades. If we weren't willing to pay the price at the draft, the prices are probably not going to change, I'm not sure we're willing to pay the price afterwards. Yesterday was the perfect opportunity to show the rest of the league Columbus means business and from that standpoint, it was a failure. I'm not talking about the players drafted, from all accounts we had a great draft, I'm talking about what wasn't done. It was disappointing in my book. I think we're looking at going to the market and that is usually not good news. I would think this increases Vinny's chances of being back with the club next season.
Personally, I don't think any of the names actually being mentioned yesterday were truly available. That's Kane, Skinner, Seguin, and several others. Coming into draft day, it sounded too much like teams were trying to go fishing and come away with some type of Jordan Staal package (top-10 pick, young roster player, top prospect) or better from a panicked GM eager to do the equivalent of whipping it out on the draft floor.

The only young player I think was really available was Burmistrov, and no one seems to know how serious Winnipeg is about moving him anyway.

If the asking price for some of these guys is true, I'm actually relieved that no trades were made by the CBJ.

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07-02-2013, 04:29 PM
  #203
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I hope he gets signed soon. Can't blame him if he bails and says no if they eventually will ask him. Strange he hasn't bailed already becaus to be honest I think they are treating him like ****.

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07-02-2013, 04:51 PM
  #204
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Hey Vinnie, Blake got your money.

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07-02-2013, 05:07 PM
  #205
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Originally Posted by cbj21 View Post
I hope he gets signed soon. Can't blame him if he bails and says no if they eventually will ask him. Strange he hasn't bailed already becaus to be honest I think they are treating him like ****.
They aren't treating him badly. From the Dispatch article, they have been upfront with their priorities. It is a business and there are better players out there than Vinny. Vinny is a good guy and big piece of the turnaround but if this team wants speed as a part of their character, Vinny ain't it.

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07-02-2013, 05:10 PM
  #206
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Originally Posted by squarelaces View Post
Hey Vinnie, Blake got your money.
More like Blake got your roster spot, and even that isn't true. We had $9 million to spare, did Comeau even get a million of that?

If we add a scorer without subtracting a player then there aren't any more spaces for Vinny. So that will be the player who replaces Vinny, not Comeau.

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07-02-2013, 11:00 PM
  #207
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Originally Posted by squarelaces View Post
Hey Vinnie, Blake got your money.
Exactly, but not in the way you think.

If Prospal is signed, he should be signed in the same way a top-6 player in the twilight of his career should be paid - $1-1.5m for one year. We all know he's going to run out of steam after 35-45 games, but for ****'s sake, he was our LEADING SCORER. Let him earn that money by carrying the team on his back until Valentine's Day and then let him fall apart on the third line/PP2 until the (maybe?) playoffs. He's not a scrub yet.

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07-03-2013, 05:25 AM
  #208
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Originally Posted by QTMcWhiskers View Post
Exactly, but not in the way you think.

If Prospal is signed, he should be signed in the same way a top-6 player in the twilight of his career should be paid - $1-1.5m for one year. We all know he's going to run out of steam after 35-45 games, but for ****'s sake, he was our LEADING SCORER. Let him earn that money by carrying the team on his back until Valentine's Day and then let him fall apart on the third line/PP2 until the (maybe?) playoffs. He's not a scrub yet.
He had 8 points in the last 10 games of the season on a condensed schedule and played every game. I would hardly label that as "running out of gas." He's always been an awkward, and slow skater, but he also has a great shot and great vision. He ended up with more points on a team last in scoring than Horton and Clarkson. About the only person I would take over Vinny on the FA market would be Ryder.

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07-03-2013, 07:50 AM
  #209
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Originally Posted by Bugg View Post
He had 8 points in the last 10 games of the season on a condensed schedule and played every game. I would hardly label that as "running out of gas." He's always been an awkward, and slow skater, but he also has a great shot and great vision. He ended up with more points on a team last in scoring than Horton and Clarkson. About the only person I would take over Vinny on the FA market would be Ryder.
Would you take Ryder for possibly double what we pay Vinny? I wouldn't personally but that's probably what it would take.

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07-03-2013, 11:16 AM
  #210
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Originally Posted by Iron Balls McGinty View Post
They aren't treating him badly. From the Dispatch article, they have been upfront with their priorities. It is a business and there are better players out there than Vinny. Vinny is a good guy and big piece of the turnaround but if this team wants speed as a part of their character, Vinny ain't it.
Exactly, a big part of the turnaround. Last season he did all one could ask and more.
He deserves another go. There are many worse players on this team. Pretty much all of them if you look at the stats. If you look beyond those he looks even better. So yeah treating him like ****.

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07-03-2013, 12:04 PM
  #211
Iron Balls McGinty
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Originally Posted by cbj21 View Post
Exactly, a big part of the turnaround. Last season he did all one could ask and more.
He deserves another go. There are many worse players on this team. Pretty much all of them if you look at the stats. If you look beyond those he looks even better. So yeah treating him like ****.
The question I have to ask is, was he the teams leading scorer because we didn't have anyone else or was he the team's leading scorer because of his talent?

If there is talent available on the free agent market or via trade, then you upgrade. If not, then you go with option 2. In reality, Vinny should not be this teams leading scorer. Upgrades need to occur.

They've already committed to the youth of the team in Foligno, Anisimov, Atkinson, Calvert. I'd be hesitant to trade any of them unless it is a blockbuster in return if this team is still building brick by brick to an extent. They've already resigned Letestu, and now Comeau who are in their prime and fit a need. They are letting Gilles walk. They've got experience and leadership in Dubinsky. They have the high priced talent in Gaborik. The only people on the roster left to move from a forward perspective are Jared Boll and RJ Umberger but Umberger has the NTC and they are a bit stuck with his contract.

Essentially, if you want to make additions to the roster, you choices to move people are Boll and Vinny. We have 12 signed forwards as it is that played in the NHL last year and does not even count the potential that Boone earns a roster spot.. I like Vinny as much as the next guy but we are already committed and/or stuck with some forwards and there may not be room on the roster if we sign anyone in free agency.

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07-03-2013, 12:49 PM
  #212
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CBJ not icing a team in the East w/o Boll. Book it.

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07-03-2013, 12:52 PM
  #213
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Originally Posted by Iron Balls McGinty View Post
Essentially, if you want to make additions to the roster, you choices to move people are Boll and Vinny. We have 12 signed forwards as it is that played in the NHL last year and does not even count the potential that Boone earns a roster spot.. I like Vinny as much as the next guy but we are already committed and/or stuck with some forwards and there may not be room on the roster if we sign anyone in free agency.
Additions, true. But I still wouldn't be surprised to see a situation where a cash strapped team trades a more expensive player to the Jackets for one of our younger more affordable talent and a pick.

GM's are about to get really stupid with the glut of free agents that are about to hit the market thanks to buyouts. I expect some of them to realize they can't keep all their toys around the time training camp starts up.

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07-03-2013, 01:01 PM
  #214
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Originally Posted by Skraut View Post
Additions, true. But I still wouldn't be surprised to see a situation where a cash strapped team trades a more expensive player to the Jackets for one of our younger more affordable talent and a pick.

GM's are about to get really stupid with the glut of free agents that are about to hit the market thanks to buyouts. I expect some of them to realize they can't keep all their toys around the time training camp starts up.
I'm certainly not discounting the trade market but not knowing what could be available, its certainly hard to count on. I would guess we'll know where the free agent market lies in a week or less. If trades are going to happen, I would bet the happen this week or the final week before training camp if I had to guess.

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07-03-2013, 05:02 PM
  #215
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Originally Posted by Iron Balls McGinty View Post
The question I have to ask is, was he the teams leading scorer because we didn't have anyone else or was he the team's leading scorer because of his talent?

If there is talent available on the free agent market or via trade, then you upgrade. If not, then you go with option 2. In reality, Vinny should not be this teams leading scorer. Upgrades need to occur.

They've already committed to the youth of the team in Foligno, Anisimov, Atkinson, Calvert. I'd be hesitant to trade any of them unless it is a blockbuster in return if this team is still building brick by brick to an extent. They've already resigned Letestu, and now Comeau who are in their prime and fit a need. They are letting Gilles walk. They've got experience and leadership in Dubinsky. They have the high priced talent in Gaborik. The only people on the roster left to move from a forward perspective are Jared Boll and RJ Umberger but Umberger has the NTC and they are a bit stuck with his contract.

Essentially, if you want to make additions to the roster, you choices to move people are Boll and Vinny. We have 12 signed forwards as it is that played in the NHL last year and does not even count the potential that Boone earns a roster spot.. I like Vinny as much as the next guy but we are already committed and/or stuck with some forwards and there may not be room on the roster if we sign anyone in free agency.
Good post with a lot of dead on points. Vinny is a nice piece to have but should not be top scorer on a contending team. So that leaves him as a fall back should they not get a top line or top six guy. That said, I would be willing to make a "bad" trade the creates payroll space, sign Vinny and save money. This would create better options at the trade deadline.

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07-03-2013, 07:35 PM
  #216
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You can probably find a talent upgrade in FA, but it won't be easy and I doubt it will be cheap.

You probably can't find a value upgrade.

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07-03-2013, 08:01 PM
  #217
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Portzline says Horton will need shoulder surgery and will not be ready for training camp.

I wonder how this might play into things, if at all.

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07-03-2013, 08:56 PM
  #218
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I get where the Jackets are coming from but I want Vinny back for the things he does off the ice. Yes, there may be a more talented, and there certainly are younger forwards. But few with his leadership and the free agents we might get are all out to get the last dollar they can. Because of Bob and the way we finished last season a lot of them will look our way who otherwise would not but it's entirely plausible we could get to the season with nobody. And with guys like Jenner coming and Comeau (who has scored 20 twice) our checking lines are not what they used to be, We can get some goals from them. So sign Vinny. Not for a lot, and look for a good $4m range free agent with some offensive skill. And lets put out a team that causes people problems from top to bottom.

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07-04-2013, 12:29 AM
  #219
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Prospal deserves to be treated like the only guy who cared enough to speak up and get the process of change started in this organization. Would much rather have a guy like that skating than one who quits on his AHL team. coughjohancough. Oh, and nevermind he doubled up the young buck in points. Sorry, but you have to give respect only when its earned if you want an organization with credibility.

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07-04-2013, 02:13 AM
  #220
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Originally Posted by CBJSprague24 View Post
Portzline says Horton will need shoulder surgery and will not be ready for training camp.

I wonder how this might play into things, if at all.
I'd like to see them both signed, although that would mean no room for anyone else (i.e. a depth veteran defenseman.) Maybe Horton will be in the lineup before the season's wear and tear has too much affect on Prospal's play. Perhaps thats Jarmo's thinking too, just waiting to see how expensive Horton will cost if he does sign. I really get the feeling, however, that Prospal's time here is up sadly.

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07-04-2013, 02:33 AM
  #221
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I'd like to see them both signed, although that would mean no room for anyone else (i.e. a depth veteran defenseman.) Maybe Horton will be in the lineup before the season's wear and tear has too much affect on Prospal's play. Perhaps thats Jarmo's thinking too, just waiting to see how expensive Horton will cost if he does sign. I really get the feeling, however, that Prospal's time here is up sadly.
So I completly forgot Columbus signed this player and maybe some of you guys did as well but where does Ilari Melart fit in the picture? Was he basically an AHL signing or is he going to be the "veteran" 7th defensemen for Columbus?

If he's AHL bound and we bring in Horton and Prospal back, I think we would need to trade at least one forward. Looking at the depth chart, I think we would have 14 capable players on the roster. So if we trade a forward for a pick, it would still give us cap room for a defensemen or we could trade a forward for a defensemen.

Horton-Anisimov-Gaborik
Dubinsky-Johansen-Atkinson
Foligno-Letestu-Umberger
Calvert-Mackenzie-Prospal
extras-Boll and Comeau


Last edited by punk_o_holic: 07-04-2013 at 02:41 AM.
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07-04-2013, 03:27 AM
  #222
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So I completly forgot Columbus signed this player and maybe some of you guys did as well but where does Ilari Melart fit in the picture? Was he basically an AHL signing or is he going to be the "veteran" 7th defensemen for Columbus?

If he's AHL bound and we bring in Horton and Prospal back, I think we would need to trade at least one forward. Looking at the depth chart, I think we would have 14 capable players on the roster. So if we trade a forward for a pick, it would still give us cap room for a defensemen or we could trade a forward for a defensemen.

Horton-Anisimov-Gaborik
Dubinsky-Johansen-Atkinson
Foligno-Letestu-Umberger
Calvert-Mackenzie-Prospal
extras-Boll and Comeau
This goes to the question I asked earlier. Horton is a RW.

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07-04-2013, 05:47 AM
  #223
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So many people say it's business, but nobody mentioned it's also sport. That should never be forgotten because sport is why this league is alive, not business. If people cared because of business, they would be following wall street instead of NHL.

And surely sport unwritten rules are different from business unwritten rules.

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07-04-2013, 08:06 AM
  #224
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Originally Posted by punk_o_holic View Post

Horton-Anisimov-Gaborik
Dubinsky-Johansen-Atkinson
Foligno-Letestu-Umberger
Calvert-Mackenzie-Prospal
extras-Boll and Comeau
Quote:
Originally Posted by leesmith View Post
This goes to the question I asked earlier. Horton is a RW.
Horton would pretty much assure Vinny isn't coming back. That makes it 13 F's, I'm guessing they're thinking Murray is the 7th D, 2 goalies and they could still add Jenner or a vet D if they want or just rely on call ups to fill in as needed.

As to the lines I'll play

Atkinson - Anisimov - Gaborik
Letestu - Dubinsky - Horton
Foligno - Johansen - Umberger
Calvert - Mackenzie - Boll
Comeau


Who knows maybe Horton can play LW, I remember him scoring a beauty from the left side in one of the SC games. And our group of forwards do have some flexibility as to where they play.

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07-04-2013, 08:25 AM
  #225
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Vinnie's number alone would deserve $2 mil.
Jarmo needs to spend $4 or $5 mil on a top winger.
Thus, Vinnie put us too close to the $9 mil cap -which we've been told we will not spend to.

That said, it sucks that the new regime didn't honor the old regime's gentlemen's agreement.

If I'm Vinnie, I move on.

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