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HFNYR Top 10 Defensemen in Rangers History

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06-24-2013, 11:59 AM
  #1
Crease
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HFNYR Top 10 Defensemen in Rangers History

This is the final list of the top defensemen in New York Rangers franchise history, as determined by the New York Rangers community at HFBoards:

NOTE: Please report any errors via PM to Crease


Top 10 Defensemen in Rangers History
RankNo.PlayerHeightWeightBornDiedTenureBirthplace
1 2 Brian Leetch 6'0 190 3/3/1968 1987-2004 Corpus Christi, Texas
2 2 Brad Park 6'0 200 7/6/1948 1968-1975 Toronto, Ontario
3 3 Ivan "Ching" Johnson 5'11 210 12/7/1898 6/16/1979 1926-1937 Winnepeg, Manitoba
4 3 Harry Howell 6'1 195 12/28/1932 1952-1969 Hamilton, Ontario
5 2 Art Coulter 5'11 185 5/31/1909 10/14/2000 1935-1942 Winnepeg, Manitoba
6 3 Ott Heller 6'0 190 6/2/1910 6/15/1980 1931-1946 Berlin, Ontario
7 4 Bill Gadsby 6'0 180 8/2/1927 1954-1961 Calgary, Alberta
8 2 Earl Seibert 6'2 198 12/7/1911 5/20/1990 1931-1936 Berlin, Ontario
9 4 Ron Greschner 6'2 205 12/22/1954 1974-1990 Goodsoil, Saskatchewan
10 11 Babe Pratt 6'3 212 1/7/1916 12/16/1988 1935-1943 Stony Mountain, Manitoba


Links to all of the discussion threads that went into making this list:
Round 2 Voting Results
Round 2 Vote 1 Discussion
Round 2 Vote 2 Discussion


Links to the preliminary discussion threads before voters submitted their lists:
Preliminary & General Discussion


Link to the aggregate list that formed the basis of Round 2 discussion. This data will be released at the end of the project:
Round 1 Aggregate List


Listed here will be the individual voting records of the participants:
bernmeister
Chief
Crease
Greg02
mike14
ratelleitlikeitis
Richter Scale


Last edited by Crease: 07-02-2013 at 06:44 AM.
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06-24-2013, 12:01 PM
  #2
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Here are the results of Vote 1. There were 7 of a possible 7 voters in this round.

PlayerTotal1st2nd3rd4th5th6th7th8th9th10th
Brian Leetch 69 6 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Brad Park 62 1 4 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Ching Johnson 58 0 2 5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Harry Howell 44 0 0 0 3 3 1 0 0 0 0
Art Coulter 41 0 0 0 4 1 0 1 1 0 0
Bill Gadsby 34 0 0 0 0 2 4 0 0 1 0
Ott Heller 28 0 0 0 0 1 1 2 3 0 0
Earl Seibert 21 0 0 0 0 0 0 3 2 1 1
Ron Greschner 16 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 1 3 2
Babe Pratt 12 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 2 4

Here are the results of Vote 2. There were 7 of a possible 7 voters in this round.

PlayerTotal1st2nd3rd4th5th6th7thNR
Ott Heller 44 4 2 0 1 0 0 0 0
Bill Gadsby 42 2 4 0 1 0 0 0 0
Earl Seibert 34 0 1 4 2 0 0 0 0
Ron Greschner 25 1 0 0 1 4 1 0 0
Babe Pratt 21 0 0 2 1 1 1 2 0
Jim Neilson 14 0 0 1 1 0 1 3 1
Barry Beck 8 0 0 0 0 2 1 0 4
Rod Seiling 6 0 0 0 0 0 2 2 3
James Patrick 2 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 6
Dave Maloney 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 7


Last edited by Crease: 07-01-2013 at 08:39 AM.
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07-01-2013, 08:56 AM
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Nice job everyone.

The first thing that jumped out at me after compiling the results was that Greschner ended up getting in, and comfortably too.

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07-01-2013, 09:13 AM
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Seems like we started leaning more towards longevity as the project went on. Looks like six of the seven voters had Gadsby above Heller in vote one, and then Heller ended up in front of Gadsby in vote two.

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07-01-2013, 09:16 AM
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Chief is a big reason why Heller improved and Gresch stuck in Round 2 Vote 2. He had some very nice arguments that centered around longevity. Another thing I found interesting was that all 10 players from Round 2 Vote 1 ended up on the final list. This means that our consensus preliminary top 10 was spot on.

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07-01-2013, 09:21 AM
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That's actually pretty stunning, considering just how little some of us (at least me ) knew about these guys going into the project, plus the fact that it's defensemen and it's much harder to judge by stats.

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07-01-2013, 12:01 PM
  #7
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No love for Maloney, the youngest captain in Rangers history, playing almost his entire career with the team.

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07-01-2013, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vipernsx View Post
No love for Maloney, the youngest captain in Rangers history, playing almost his entire career with the team.
He garnered enough preliminary votes to make the Round 2 ballot. That's considerable recognition, IMO.

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07-01-2013, 02:52 PM
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bernmeister

Preliminary List
Rank Player
1 Brad Park
2 Brian Leetch
3 Ching Johnson
4 Art Coulter
5 Babe Pratt
6 Bill Gadsby
7 Harry Howell
8 Earl Seibert
9 Neil Colville
10 Marc Staal
11 Ryan McDonagh
12 Sergei Zubov
13 Carol Vadnais
14 Jim Neilson
15 Barry Beck
16 Jeff Beukeboom
17 Reijo Ruotsalainen
18 James Patrick
19 Ron Greschner
20 Dale Rolfe

Round 2
Round Rank 1 Rank 2 Rank 3 Rank 4 Rank 5 Rank 6 Rank 7 Rank 8 Rank 9 Rank 10
Vote 1 Park Leetch Johnson Coulter Gadsby Howell Heller Seibert Pratt Greschner
Vote 2 Heller Gadsby Pratt Seibert Beck Greschner Neilson   



Players in preliminary top 10 not on the final list
Neil Colville
Marc Staal

Players in final list ranked highest by this voter
Brad Park (Vote 1)

Players in final list ranked lowest by this voter
Ron Greschner (Vote 2)


Last edited by Crease: 07-01-2013 at 03:10 PM.
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07-01-2013, 03:09 PM
  #10
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Chief

Preliminary List
Rank Player
1 Brian Leetch
2 Brad Park
3 Harry Howell
4 Art Coulter
5 Neil Colville
6 Ching Johnson
7 Bill Gadsby
8 Ron Greschner
9 Barry Beck
10 Babe Pratt
11 Dave Maloney
12 Rod Seiling
13 Jim Neilson
14 Jeff Beukeboom
15 James Patrick
16 Ott Heller
17 Sergei Zubov
18 Clarence Abel
19 Doug Harvey
20 Reijo Ruotsalainen

Round 2
Round Rank 1 Rank 2 Rank 3 Rank 4 Rank 5 Rank 6 Rank 7 Rank 8 Rank 9 Rank 10
Vote 1 Leetch Park Johnson Howell Heller Greschner Pratt Coulter Gadsby Seibert
Vote 2 Greschner Heller Seibert Gadsby Beck Patrick Pratt   



Players in preliminary top 10 not on the final list
Barry Beck
Neil Colville

Players in final list ranked highest by this voter
Ron Greschner (Vote 1 & 2)
Ott Heller (Vote 1)
Babe Pratt (Vote 1)

Players in final list ranked lowest by this voter
Earl Seibert (Vote 1)
Bill Gadsby (Vote 1 & 2)

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07-01-2013, 03:15 PM
  #11
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Crease

Preliminary List
Rank Player
1 Brian Leetch
2 Brad Park
3 Ching Johnson
4 Bill Gadsby
5 Art Coulter
6 Harry Howell
7 Ott Heller
8 Ron Greschner
9 Jim Neilson
10 Earl Seibert
11 Doug Harvey
12 Babe Pratt
13 Dave Maloney
14 Rod Seiling
15 Barry Beck
16 James Patrick
17 Jeff Beukeboom
18 Carol Vadnais
19 Allan Stanley
20 Leo Bourgeault

Round 2
Round Rank 1 Rank 2 Rank 3 Rank 4 Rank 5 Rank 6 Rank 7 Rank 8 Rank 9 Rank 10
Vote 1 Leetch Johnson Park Howell Coulter Gadsby Seibert Heller Greschner Pratt
Vote 2 Heller Gadsby Seibert Neilson Greschner Pratt Seiling   



Players in preliminary top 10 not on the final list
Jim Neilson

Players in final list ranked highest by this voter
None

Players in final list ranked lowest by this voter
None

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07-01-2013, 03:29 PM
  #12
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Greg02

Preliminary List
Rank Player
1 Brian Leetch
2 Brad Park
3 Ching Johnson
4 Harry Howell
5 Art Coulter
6 Bill Gadsby
7 Earl Seibert
8 Doug Harvey
9 Babe Pratt
10 Ott Heller
11 Ron Greschner
12 Jim Neilson
13 Neil Colville
14 Barry Beck
15 Jeff Beukeboom
16 Rod Seiling
17 Dan Girardi
18 Dave Maloney
19 Hy Buller
20 Marc Staal

Round 2
Round Rank 1 Rank 2 Rank 3 Rank 4 Rank 5 Rank 6 Rank 7 Rank 8 Rank 9 Rank 10
Vote 1 Leetch Johnson Park Coulter Howell Gadsby Heller Seibert Greschner Pratt
Vote 2 Gadsby Heller Seibert Greschner Pratt Beck Neilson   



Players in preliminary top 10 not on the final list
Doug Harvey

Players in final list ranked highest by this voter
None

Players in final list ranked lowest by this voter
None

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07-01-2013, 04:14 PM
  #13
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The really interesting thing for me was finding out new information and gaining a greater appreciation for players I thought I knew well. Case in point, I remember Greschner as a player, but I was surprised to see that he was substantially better offensively than I remembered.

As we went through this process, longevity became more important to me. I also thought that offensive defensemen weren't getting the proper recognition. Someone mentioned Dave Maloney earlier and before I firmed up my second round list, I was looking to see if better arguments could be made for more players from the last 30 or 40 years. I just felt like I had to give players I actually saw play a fair shake.


Last edited by Chief: 07-01-2013 at 04:19 PM.
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07-02-2013, 06:14 AM
  #14
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mike14

Preliminary List
Rank Player
1 Brian Leetch
2 Brad Park
3 Harry Howell
4 Ching Johnson
5 Art Coulter
6 Bill Gadsby
7 Ott Heller
8 Earl Seibert
9 Babe Pratt
10 Jim Neilson
11 Ron Greschner
12 Carol Vadnais
13 Rod Seiling
14 James Patrick
15 Dave Maloney
16 Barry Beck
17 Marc Staal
18 Reijo Ruotsalainen
19 Tom Laidlaw
20 Jeff Beukeboom

Round 2
Round Rank 1 Rank 2 Rank 3 Rank 4 Rank 5 Rank 6 Rank 7 Rank 8 Rank 9 Rank 10
Vote 1 Leetch Park Johnson Howell Gadsby Heller Coulter Greschner Seibert Pratt
Vote 2 Heller Gadsby Pratt Seibert Greschner Neilson Seiling   



Players in preliminary top 10 not on the final list
Jim Neilson

Players in final list ranked highest by this voter
None

Players in final list ranked lowest by this voter
None

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07-02-2013, 06:20 AM
  #15
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ratelleitlikeitis

Preliminary List
Rank Player
1 Brian Leetch
2 Brad Park
3 Harry Howell
4 Ching Johnson
5 Ron Greschner
6 Reijo Ruotsalainen
7 Babe Pratt
8 James Patrick
9 Dave Maloney
10 Barry Beck
11 Marc Staal
12 Bill Gadsby
13 Rod Seiling
14 Sergei Zubov
15 Jeff Beukeboom
16 Ryan McDonagh
17 Dan Girardi
18 Michael Roszival
19 Mike McEwen
20 Arnie Brown

Round 2
Round Rank 1 Rank 2 Rank 3 Rank 4 Rank 5 Rank 6 Rank 7 Rank 8 Rank 9 Rank 10
Vote 1 Leetch Park Johnson Coulter Howell Gadsby Seibert Heller Greschner Pratt
Vote 2 Gadsby Seibert Neilson Heller Greschner Seiling Pratt   



Players in preliminary top 10 not on the final list
Reijo Ruotsalainen
James Patrick
Dave Maloney
Barry Beck

Players in final list ranked highest by this voter
Earl Seibert (Vote 2)

Players in final list ranked lowest by this voter
Ott Heller (Vote 2)

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07-02-2013, 06:24 AM
  #16
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Richter Scale

Preliminary List
Rank Player
1 Brian Leetch
2 Brad Park
3 Ching Johnson
4 Art Coulter
5 Harry Howell
6 Bill Gadsby
7 Earl Seibert
8 Ott Heller
9 Babe Pratt
10 Rod Seiling
11 Ron Greschner
12 Jim Neilson
13 Barry Beck
14 Doug Harvey
15 Hy Buller
16 Dave Maloney
17 James Patrick
18 Jeff Beukeboom
19 Kevin Lowe
20 Clarence Abel

Round 2
Round Rank 1 Rank 2 Rank 3 Rank 4 Rank 5 Rank 6 Rank 7 Rank 8 Rank 9 Rank 10
Vote 1 Leetch Park Johnson Coulter Howell Gadsby Seibert Heller Pratt Greschner
Vote 2 Heller Gadsby Seibert Pratt Greschner Seiling Neilson   



Players in preliminary top 10 not on the final list
Rod Seiling

Players in final list ranked highest by this voter
None

Players in final list ranked lowest by this voter
None

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07-02-2013, 06:40 AM
  #17
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This list was the result from Round 1 of voting. In Round 1, each participant submitted a preliminary top 20 list that was aggregated then used to generate a list of players eligible for the Round 2 ballots. It is not the final result. The final result is in post #1 of this thread.

Round 1 Voting Results (Aggregate List)
Rank Player # of Lists Voting Points Average Ranking Change
1 Brian Leetch 7 139 1.1
2 Brad Park 7 134 1.9
3 Ching Johnson 7 121 3.7
4 Harry Howell 7 116 4.4
5 Bill Gadsby 7 100 6.7 -2
6 Art Coulter 6 99 4.5 +1
7 Babe Pratt 7 86 8.7 -3
8 Ron Greschner 7 74 10.4 -1
9 Earl Seibert 5 65 8 +1
10 Ott Heller 5 57 9.6 +4
11 Jim Neilson 6 56 11.7
12 Barry Beck 7 55 13.1
13 Rod Seiling 6 48 13
14 Dave Maloney 6 44 13.7
15 James Patrick 6 38 14.7
16 Neil Colville 3 36 9
17 Doug Harvey 4 32 13
18 Jeff Beukeboom 7 32 16.4
19 Marc Staal 4 26 14.5
20 Reijo Ruotsalainen 4 23 15.3
21 Carol Vadnais 3 20 14.3
22 Sergei Zubov 3 20 14.3
23 Ryan McDonagh 2 15 13.5
24 Dan Girardi 2 8 17
25 Hy Buller 2 8 17
26 Clarence Abel 2 4 19
27 Michael Roszival 1 3 18
28 Allan Stanley 1 2 19
29 Kevin Lowe 1 2 19
30 Mike McEwen 1 2 19
31 Tom Laidlaw 1 2 19
32 Arnie Brown 1 1 20
33 Dale Rolfe 1 1 20
34 Leo Bourgeault 1 1 20


Definitions
# of Lists: The number of preliminary top 20 lists (out of 7 total lists) on which the player was listed.
Voting Points: The number of voting points the player received. 20 points for 1st, 19 points for 2nd, and so on down to 1 point for 20th.
Average Ranking: The average placement of a player on the lists on which he appeared only. For example, Michael Roszival was ranked on one list only, at spot #18. His average ranking is 18.
Change: The change in rank from the end of Round 1 to end of Round 2.

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