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Old
07-01-2013, 11:52 AM
  #126
Bird Law
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
I don't ever recall Marcel Hossa being a good puck possession player, need to look up on that one.

Stat surfing is not useless at all. It gives some good objectivity on a player. Just because you can seem to grasp or understand it, does not mean it's useless.



You literally have no idea what you're talking about. Please stop.
The only thing Marcel could actually do was play a hell of a puck possession game. He was great in the corners and ridiculously hard to knock off the puck. He couldn't do anything else with it, but once he had it he was hard to get off of it.

You are correct that I "can . . . grasp [and] understand it." I never said stats are completely useless. But they are certainly useless when that is all you go by (and your comment on having to look up something on Hossa shows me that all you go by is whatever the stats tell you to believe).

And if I have "literally . . . no idea what [I am] talking about," than why are you consistently belittling this team (even when they do well) and playing up the Islanders and Devils? Let's not play games here. You've done this since you started posting on here. You've been called out on it multiple times. Yet you continue to brush it aside. Where there is smoke, there is fire. And this building has been burning for quite some time. Sorry that I'm calling you out on it in public like this, but them's the breaks, kiddo. It's pretty obvious something is up when you add in one (usually backhanded) compliment of the team and complain (and/or compare them negatively to the Devils) about them the other 99 times.

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Old
07-01-2013, 11:54 AM
  #127
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#CBJ have signed G Sergei Bobrovsky to 2 year deal. Official.
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Old
07-01-2013, 12:06 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
The only thing Marcel could actually do was play a hell of a puck possession game. He was great in the corners and ridiculously hard to knock off the puck. He couldn't do anything else with it, but once he had it he was hard to get off of it.
I would like to see numbers back it up. A lot of players can have individual puck controlling skills, but sometimes they hardly take it to the net, which is what basic puck possession metrics are. Derrick Brassard is a prime example in his time in Columbus.

Quote:
You are correct that I "can . . . grasp [and] understand it." I never said stats are completely useless. But they are certainly useless when that is all you go by (and your comment on having to look up something on Hossa shows me that all you go by is whatever the stats tell you to believe)..
Like I said before, looking at the stats is non-biased and more objective to look at than personal biases on players. Both can be used with context like you suggest, but I have to side with the stats since they aren't biased. I recall all Yankees fans will tell you that Derek Jeter is a hell of a defensive player, however every defensive metric like UZR out there suggests he has poor range and is a subpar defender. They attach biases to certain players. Robinson Cano might be the best defensive 2B in baseball via metrics, but he gets eaten up by the media for not showing 'hustle' like Jeter. Looking at it objectively, I can tell Cano has great range and doesn't need to hustle to make noodle arm throws to 1rst base like Jeter does. Similar concept can be assigned to hockey as there is a higher correlation with the team with higher fenclose% showing an indicative of how the team will do in the future, as with individual player performance.

Quote:
And if I have "literally . . . no idea what [I am] talking about," than why are you consistently belittling this team (even when they do well) and playing up the Islanders and Devils? Let's not play games here. You've done this since you started posting on here. You've been called out on it multiple times. Yet you continue to brush it aside. Where there is smoke, there is fire. And this building has been burning for quite some time. Sorry that I'm calling you out on it in public like this, but them's the breaks, kiddo. It's pretty obvious something is up when you add in one (usually backhanded) compliment of the team and complain (and/or compare them negatively to the Devils) about them the other 99 times.
I could care less if you call me out. It's not saying much as you call out pretty much every other poster that goes against your opinion. The holier than thou attitude is getting very tiresome.

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Old
07-01-2013, 12:11 PM
  #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
The only thing Marcel could actually do was play a hell of a puck possession game. He was great in the corners and ridiculously hard to knock off the puck. He couldn't do anything else with it, but once he had it he was hard to get off of it.

You are correct that I "can . . . grasp [and] understand it." I never said stats are completely useless. But they are certainly useless when that is all you go by (and your comment on having to look up something on Hossa shows me that all you go by is whatever the stats tell you to believe).

And if I have "literally . . . no idea what [I am] talking about," than why are you consistently belittling this team (even when they do well) and playing up the Islanders and Devils? Let's not play games here. You've done this since you started posting on here. You've been called out on it multiple times. Yet you continue to brush it aside. Where there is smoke, there is fire. And this building has been burning for quite some time. Sorry that I'm calling you out on it in public like this, but them's the breaks, kiddo. It's pretty obvious something is up when you add in one (usually backhanded) compliment of the team and complain (and/or compare them negatively to the Devils) about them the other 99 times.
Agree 100% and this is overdue. this is getting old and i don't understand why this continues?

disagreeing with someone, is one thing. but when you have a problem with:

the owner, the GM, the coach, every player - and you modify your arguments to always be on the OPPOSITE side of any form of fan consensus.... well there is a word for this behavior. It's outlined in the posting policy of this BB.

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Old
07-01-2013, 12:13 PM
  #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NikC View Post
Agree 100% and this is overdue. this is getting old and i don't understand why this continues?

disagreeing with someone, is one thing. but when you have a problem with:

the owner, the GM, the coach, every player - and you modify your arguments to always be on the OPPOSITE side of any form of fan consensus.... well there is a word for this behavior. It's outlined in the posting policy of this BB.
Hear hear!

And like everyone knows, I have zero issue with disagreeing. LOL.

But we need more meaningful disagreements and less outright ridiculousness.

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Old
07-01-2013, 12:15 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by NikC View Post
Agree 100% and this is overdue. this is getting old and i don't understand why this continues?

disagreeing with someone, is one thing. but when you have a problem with:

the owner, the GM, the coach, every player - and you modify your arguments to always be on the OPPOSITE side of any form of fan consensus.... well there is a word for this behavior. It's outlined in the posting policy of this BB.
The owner and GM deserve pretty much the bulk of criticism due to their inability to help construct contending teams despite a large payroll each season and generally decent drafting pickups. It's the constant roster overhaul garbage the past 7 years that aspire little confidence in this franchise to put out a winning team. The players and coaches are unfortunately dragged into this because of the ineptitude of the teflon GM and owner.

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Old
07-01-2013, 12:17 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
Devils' defense is still a friggin catastrophe.
Defense isn't an issue with Merill, Gelinas and Severson on the fast track. It's skilled forwards that the devils lack.

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Old
07-01-2013, 12:20 PM
  #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
The owner and GM deserve pretty much the bulk of criticism due to their inability to help construct contending teams despite a large payroll each season and generally decent drafting pickups. It's the constant roster overhaul garbage the past 7 years that aspire little confidence in this franchise to put out a winning team. The players and coaches are unfortunately dragged into this because of the ineptitude of the teflon GM and owner.
Clearly this is a losing team.

Posts like this are why people just roll their eyes at your posts. We were a couple of games away from making the Cup Finals last year and we lost to the eventual runners-up this year (outperforming a supposedly much better team in the Pens).

Yet this is clearly a losing team.

No one will ever dispute that there are problems with the team. Not a single person. Yet 28 out of 30 teams had problems since they didn't make the Finals. Are they all losing teams? Are they all incapable of winning?

I have some of the most demanding standards of this team of anyoen on here. Yet not even I can bring myself to write the stuff you do about how much you hate everything and everyone on the team. Again, this has been going on for ages and it's about time people bring this up in public.

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Old
07-01-2013, 12:26 PM
  #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Hear hear!

And like everyone knows, I have zero issue with disagreeing. LOL.

But we need more meaningful disagreements and less outright ridiculousness.
Which of course the standards of what is an acceptable disagreeance and what is out right ridiculousness will be determined by none other than his humble and noble Lord Jonathan esq. We are not worthy.

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Old
07-01-2013, 12:33 PM
  #135
Bird Law
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Originally Posted by Ailurophile View Post
Which of course the standards of what is an acceptable disagreeance and what is out right ridiculousness will be determined by none other than his humble and noble Lord Jonathan esq. We are not worthy.
I'm sure glad you read posts before you quote them.

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07-01-2013, 12:36 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Clearly this is a losing team.

Posts like this are why people just roll their eyes at your posts. We were a couple of games away from making the Cup Finals last year and we lost to the eventual runners-up this year (outperforming a supposedly much better team in the Pens).


Yet this is clearly a losing team.

No one will ever dispute that there are problems with the team. Not a single person. Yet 28 out of 30 teams had problems since they didn't make the Finals. Are they all losing teams? Are they all incapable of winning?

I have some of the most demanding standards of this team of anyoen on here. Yet not even I can bring myself to write the stuff you do about how much you hate everything and everyone on the team. Again, this has been going on for ages and it's about time people bring this up in public.
They lost to much better teams, which is the point I'm trying to make across. Sather's work in 13 years is getting a free pass due to one deep playoff run. Then the season after being 'so close', the roster still went an overhaul. I don't think this team was going to win the cup this season, but the biggest problem is still Sather for still 'assessing' his team after 13 years. There is no plan for Sather at all in place, as evident by his constant overpaid FA signings (Holik, Drury, Gomez, Richards, Gaborik) and trading for high-rate players for a 'short-fix' solution (Lindros, Bure, Jagr, Nash). Neither primary route he utilized has worked and it won't continue to work based on his past pedigree. Trading for Nash really solidified it to me that he has no idea what he's doing. How many more seasons is he going to get? How many more coaches will he fire for not utilizing this team to their potential, as he says? How many more roster overhauls is it going to take before this clown is out of this proud organization? How the heck is he still in charge? Glen Sather is no better than John Ferguson, Jr. and he ran that Leafs team into the ground. Somehow an even bigger clown, James Dolan, is perfectly content with his mediocrity.

Rangers fans should be more demanding with more than 1rst/2nd round finishes and 6th-8th seed finishes, which Sather has primarily had in his tenure post-lockout. Especially since they are the 2nd most valuable franchise in the league, they should simply be doing more than what he has accomplished in one season. This Rangers era team reminds of the Calgary Flames on their last legs before their vets started aging and they shipped off younger roster players in an attempt at 'win now'. Building around wingers, overpaid FA signings and non elite prospect pool is what led to their downfall. I see a lot of similarities between the two teams and of course a lot of that team got a free pass because they were 'one win away from the Stanley Cup'.

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Old
07-01-2013, 12:41 PM
  #137
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Explain to me where he gets a free pass. Please. You're just making ridiculous claims.

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Old
07-01-2013, 12:43 PM
  #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
They lost to much better teams, which is the point I'm trying to make across . . . This Rangers era team reminds of the Calgary Flames on their last legs before their vets started aging and they shipped off younger roster players in an attempt at 'win now'. Building around wingers, overpaid FA signings and non elite prospect pool is what led to their downfall. I see a lot of similarities between the two teams and of course a lot of that team got a free pass because they were 'one win away from the Stanley Cup'.
lol @ the Devils being a "much better team." I won't disagree that the Bruins are/were better. Even though they beat us, our games were always close and I think a lot of that came down to the style differences between the coaches. Torts system simply didn ot work well against the Bruins.

And LOL @ this team being on its last legs. What "young roster players" have we shipped off? This entire team has been built through the draft and is comprised of young players Are you kidding me with that crap? How can you even post that in a serious manner?

We have two forwards and two goalies over the age of 30. That's it.

Yes. This team is clearly on its last legs. Everyone is going to join AARP tomorrow.

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Old
07-01-2013, 12:44 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Guess What View Post
Explain to me where he gets a free pass. Please. You're just making ridiculous claims.
Par for the course.

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Old
07-01-2013, 12:51 PM
  #140
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I know nothing about this "free pass". Just last week I tried taking Sather and putting him on a boat out to sea. It was then that I learned that we, the fans, have little control over Sather's General Managing

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07-01-2013, 12:58 PM
  #141
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But we totally traded the farm for Nash!

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Old
07-01-2013, 12:59 PM
  #142
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But we totally traded the farm for Nash!
I lol'd hard when Kershaw complained so vocally about moving freaking Anisimov for Nash.

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07-01-2013, 01:01 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
The owner and GM deserve pretty much the bulk of criticism due to their inability to help construct contending teams despite a large payroll each season and generally decent drafting pickups. It's the constant roster overhaul garbage the past 7 years that aspire little confidence in this franchise to put out a winning team. The players and coaches are unfortunately dragged into this because of the ineptitude of the teflon GM and owner.
several times in the past Iíve posted a link to Jim Schoenfelds break up meetings with the Whale, the summer prior to signing
Richards. did you see it? Schoenfeld goes into detail about the philosophy and ďvisionĒ of the NYR organization. There is a unified front here. Its not an eccentric madman throwing #### at the wall to see what sticks.

In summary Schoenfeld states there will never be a conventional rebuild in NY because of where they finish in the standings. They will look to build the standard way all teams do, however they will largely depend on FA s and trades to bring in top talent. I realize this isnít the way some would like us to go about doing things, but in the situation we are in with Hank, this makes most sense at the moment.

The FA signings that didnít pan out are largely over criticized imo with Redden being the most unforgiveable gaffe. Regardless, it is largely on the player to bear the responsibility for his play or lack thereof. Many here see this team trending upward, if we can build a legitimate offense in front our defenseman and all star goalie. this is an enviable position to be in. Youíve admitted yourself that there's more than one way to build a SC contender.

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Old
07-01-2013, 01:05 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by Ailurophile View Post
Which of course the standards of what is an acceptable disagreeance and what is out right ridiculousness will be determined by none other than his humble and noble Lord Jonathan esq. We are not worthy.
How can I forget. Silly me.

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Old
07-01-2013, 01:05 PM
  #145
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We really are one big happy dysfunctional family aren't we?

We have three types of fans: those that hate everything that's done, ones that are lukewarm on everything, and fans that drink the spiked kool-aid and think every year is going to be the year.

I like all of you, you make being a fan of this franchise tolerable

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Old
07-01-2013, 01:05 PM
  #146
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I lol'd hard when Kershaw complained so vocally about moving freaking Anisimov for Nash.
Don't forget Brandon "elite puck possession player" Dubinsky.

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07-01-2013, 01:06 PM
  #147
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Explain to me where he gets a free pass. Please. You're just making ridiculous claims.
Just look in this thread.

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Old
07-01-2013, 01:07 PM
  #148
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I like all of you, you make being a fan of this franchise tolerable
And we like you

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Old
07-01-2013, 01:08 PM
  #149
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But why should we take advanced statistics seriously when they say the Devils, the team who has missed the playoffs twice in two years, are much better than the Rangers? If anything, shouldn't that be an argument AGAINST the validity of advanced statistics?

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07-01-2013, 01:13 PM
  #150
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
lol @ the Devils being a "much better team." I won't disagree that the Bruins are/were better. Even though they beat us, our games were always close and I think a lot of that came down to the style differences between the coaches. Torts system simply didn ot work well against the Bruins.
The Devils were the much better team sans goaltending in the regular season. They had a higher fenclose rating, so it's appropriate that they won the series in 6 games. Simply the better team. The Bruins won because they have better hockey players than the Rangers.

Quote:
And LOL @ this team being on its last legs. What "young roster players" have we shipped off? This entire team has been built through the draft and is comprised of young players Are you kidding me with that crap? How can you even post that in a serious manner?.
Dubinsky, Anisimov, Erixon to name recent ones. Trading picks for washed up vets like Clowe is another. Just two trades in the past calendar year. No plan

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We have two forwards and two goalies over the age of 30. That's it. .
And the team consists of no high-end talent, a large role of depth players playing out of their capabilities.

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Yes. This team is clearly on its last legs. Everyone is going to join AARP tomorrow.
You do realize that the Flames just in 2009-10 had a core similar to the Rangers? Their best forward was a 32 year old Iginla (similar to Nash), their defense was their focal point as it consisted Phaneuf (24), Bouwmeester (25), Giordano (25) and Regehr (29) similar to McDonagh, Girardi, Staal, MDZ. They were backstopped by a 32 yr old Kipprusoff. I see a similar transition to the Rangers in a couple of years.

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