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Round 3, Pick #72: Tyrell Goulbourne, Forward, Kelowna (WHL)

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Old
07-01-2013, 12:58 PM
  #126
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post


Not defending it, but my god, can this kid fight.

We should've and could've easily gotten him in the 5th, but if Holmgren thinks he's Zac Rinaldo 2.0, some around here are going to love him. Remember how we all disliked the Rinaldo pick? Then he turned into an NHLer.

Still think this pick could have been used much more appropriately, but if Holmgren says he's an NHLer, there's usually something to that.



EDIT: I also want to point out something seemingly obvious and evident if you closely at who the Flyers have taken in the last few drafts on the outside and who they've wanted but fell short on.

The Flyers love Brad Marchand and Milan Lucic. They're looking for guys who might end up being of ilk. Not that they've found them, but they're looking.
Jeesh he mandhandled that galoot...

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07-01-2013, 02:51 PM
  #127
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I like fights

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07-01-2013, 02:53 PM
  #128
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Jesus, he is half the size of that guy.

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Old
07-01-2013, 02:55 PM
  #129
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Seems like a typical "Flyers hockey!" pick; if he's something, that's cool...I don't have my hopes up. I mean, I guess. I honestly don't know enough about any of the picks to truly praise or criticize them. I acknowledge their existence.

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07-01-2013, 02:57 PM
  #130
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At least hopefully this will prevent Homer from signing a goon 35 year old to a 3 year contract in a few years. Let this kid have the last spot on the roster when his time comes and send him to the minors if he can't keep up.

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07-01-2013, 07:12 PM
  #131
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I don't know what kind of player he's going to be, but it does seem to be a waste of an asset (3rd round pick).
It might seem you could have traded it for a 2nd in 2014 and a 5th pick in 2013 and taken this guy. But we don't know that for sure.
The best teams don't waste assets... it seems that this is the difference between the Flyers and the very best teams... asset wasting.

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07-01-2013, 07:17 PM
  #132
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I know we are killing this pick, especially with some of the talent available at 72. But him and rinaldo could be a fun 4th line to watch. hopefully by then both can kill some penalties.

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07-01-2013, 07:21 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
I know we are killing this pick, especially with some of the talent available at 72. But him and rinaldo could be a fun 4th line to watch. hopefully by then both can kill some penalties.
More likely, Tyrell is there to replace Zac when Zac tries to get an actual real contract. This pick would have been fine in round 5.

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07-01-2013, 07:25 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by KJS14 View Post
The reality is that there are still solid NHL players in the 3rd round with good upside. Zdeno Chara, Brad Richards, Brian Gionta, Craig Anderson, Patrick Sharp, Alexander Edler, Johan Franzen, Kris Letang, Jonathan Quick, and Adam Henrique were all 3rd round picks. So you're telling me that these teams should have drafted for depth instead? I'd rather gamble on upside in the 3rd round and end up with a player of this caliber even if it's once every 10-20 years. I'd take one Chara, Quick, or Letang over twenty Rinaldos.
Couldn't have said it better.

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07-01-2013, 07:26 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by BillDineen View Post
I think Mark Greig's entire scouting role is combing through hockeyfights.com.


Was Klotz even a good fighter? I literally know nothing about him other than until yesterday he was that one goon we wasted a 3rd rounder on that one time.

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07-01-2013, 07:30 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
He's not a very good scout evidently. They should honestly ignore him until the later rounds if he's going to supply us with these gems.

Most guys who work in the NHL even in the higher positions weren't very good players though. I don't really see the correlation between the two really. I mean usually the most successful Coaches, GM's, & Scouts in any sport weren't noteworthy players when they played.
Before you get to the selection bias issue, it's just simple math. Great players are rare. That means there are fewer of them. It only makes sense that there would be fewer of them represented in the post-playing career ranks, too.

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07-01-2013, 09:32 PM
  #137
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Not only can he fight; but he also looks just like your baby daddy! He'll play well in Allentown.

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07-01-2013, 10:23 PM
  #138
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Not your prototypical third round pick and probably could have gotten him much later, but if he can play the PK and center a 4th line that would be a good pick. Not sure if he moved off center full-time or what but I know he has some experience as a center. Kid can throw em with both hands and is a pretty strong kid. Takes on guys twice his size and surprises them with a few shots. Whether that will translate to the next level is another thing but its gusty none the less. He also wore a letter as an 18 year old which is a plus too. Don't know much else about his game but the good thing is he can play two more years in the dub (one as an overager) in hopes that he can develop a little more offensively.

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07-01-2013, 10:59 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
I know we are killing this pick, especially with some of the talent available at 72. But him and rinaldo could be a fun 4th line to watch. hopefully by then both can kill some penalties.
I'd consider it problematic if the two of them are ever on the pro roster at the same time.

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Old
07-01-2013, 11:00 PM
  #140
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The Flyers have now passed on a Subban 3 times. Marshall over PK, Laughton over Malcom (which I am fine with now, wasn't at the time) and this guy over Jordan. Now who's to say Jordan will ever be an NHL d man? No one, but he has a lot better of a chance becoming a valuable NHL player compared to this goon.

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07-01-2013, 11:14 PM
  #141
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What I find inconceivable about this waste of a pick is that Holmgren is quoted as saying he believes he drafted a Rinaldo clone. In what hockey universe is that even necessary in the 3rd round? He may as well have gone up to the microphone and told knock-knock jokes for 3 minutes as bothered to draft Goulbourne.

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07-01-2013, 11:22 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by FLYguy3911 View Post
Don't know much else about his game but the good thing is he can play two more years in the dub (one as an overager) in hopes that he can develop a little more offensively.
That's the other part of this pick that is a huge headscratcher. The kid was passed over last year and is older than half the league. There are kids who are late bloomers, but you'd hope he'd show something in his 3rd year in the league that would show more than "he's a fighter".

It's a pretty good bet that, if the Flyers hadn't drafted him this year, he'd have gone undrafted.

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07-01-2013, 11:42 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
What I find inconceivable about this waste of a pick is that Holmgren is quoted as saying he believes he drafted a Rinaldo clone. In what hockey universe is that even necessary in the 3rd round? He may as well have gone up to the microphone and told knock-knock jokes for 3 minutes as bothered to draft Goulbourne.
Homer: Knock Knock!

Bettman: Uh...who's there?

Homer: Goul.

Bettman: Oh for...Goul who?

Homer: Goulbourne!

Bettman: The NHL has decided to fine Philadelphia their remaining draft picks.

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07-01-2013, 11:45 PM
  #144
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I seriously wished they overvalued the hometown factor in Lodge over the 70's style factor in Goulbourne.

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07-02-2013, 07:56 AM
  #145
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The person who also brought up Matt Martin earlier, he at least had a 25-goal season, and then 35 after being drafted. And he's not a particularly good player either. The Islanders also had like a 100 draft picks in that draft as they do often. Martin was their 11th of 13 draft picks in that draft, despite being the 5th round. We did it in our 3rd pick of the draft, and he was also the only forward we took. It's not like we don't have organizational depth there either, as Holmgren is constantly being linked to young scoring forwards as well. And they didn't have much faith in Tye McGinn to give him ice time at the end of the season with nothing to play for.

If Goulbourne can turn into an Andrew Shaw or Kyle Clifford, that's ok, but in the 3rd round your standards should be higher given the resume.

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07-02-2013, 08:03 AM
  #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
If Goulbourne can turn into an Andrew Shaw or Kyle Clifford, that's ok, but in the 3rd round your standards should be higher given the resume.
Isn't it possible that they saw something that isn't on his "resume" that you aren't seeing? Yes, yes, Homer called him "Z2," so that can only mean that Homer thinks he will put up the exact same stats as Zac Rinaldo and that means that he should have picked him in the sixth round like Zac rinaldo.

Basically what you are saying is that Homer looked at the draft board. Talked to the scouts. Went over his notes. Then said, "Hey look, we know this guy is going to be there in the seventh, but we just need a goon so let's draft him now. I know that there are better players that will be more valuable, but let's draft this kid who sucks just because he can punch guys." Is that what you think happened? Because in my mind, if that happened, everyone in the room should be fired. I think more likely, the team and scouts see something in him that you don't. Maybe that is because, you know, they have trained scouts that have actually seen him and others play. Or maybe you are right and they purposely took a guy who sucks because they are stupid.

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07-02-2013, 08:16 AM
  #147
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Isn't it possible that they saw something that isn't on his "resume" that you aren't seeing? Yes, yes, Homer called him "Z2," so that can only mean that Homer thinks he will put up the exact same stats as Zac Rinaldo and that means that he should have picked him in the sixth round like Zac rinaldo.

Basically what you are saying is that Homer looked at the draft board. Talked to the scouts. Went over his notes. Then said, "Hey look, we know this guy is going to be there in the seventh, but we just need a goon so let's draft him now. I know that there are better players that will be more valuable, but let's draft this kid who sucks just because he can punch guys." Is that what you think happened? Because in my mind, if that happened, everyone in the room should be fired. I think more likely, the team and scouts see something in him that you don't. Maybe that is because, you know, they have trained scouts that have actually seen him and others play. Or maybe you are right and they purposely took a guy who sucks because they are stupid.
There were MANY trained scouts who saw him play and rated him later. Actually all the teams passed over him last season.

Now maybe he somehow learns how to play hockey in the next few years. History states though there is about a 5% chance of this happening.

I think here you are more defending the Flyers scouts than the player himself and that's fine. I personally am one that doesn't give that kind of respect to people because of title. Homer called him Zach zrinaldo. The scouts and prior himself stated all his positives and actually playing hockey (like skills shooting, pk etc) was not mentioned.

Like truefully, do you think this guy will be anything more than a Rinaldo. If not, do you think that drafting a player with his low skill caliber was the best choice here.

I personally don't think they see something more so they are trying to preserve the broad street hockey look. I think this draft pick wants to show they are still trying to win the cup based off of toughness.

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07-02-2013, 08:23 AM
  #148
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
There were MANY trained scouts who saw him play and rated him later. Actually all the teams passed over him last season.

Now maybe he somehow learns how to play hockey in the next few years. History states though there is about a 5% chance of this happening.

I think here you are more defending the Flyers scouts than the player himself and that's fine. I personally am one that doesn't give that kind of respect to people because of title. Homer called him Zach zrinaldo. The scouts and prior himself stated all his positives and actually playing hockey (like skills shooting, pk etc) was not mentioned.

Like truefully, do you think this guy will be anything more than a Rinaldo. If not, do you think that drafting a player with his low skill caliber was the best choice here.

I personally don't think they see something more so they are trying to preserve the broad street hockey look. I think this draft pick wants to show they are still trying to win the cup based off of toughness.
Yeah I'm not really defending the player or the pick really. Like I said in previous posts, I would have preferred someone else. But a big part of that is because I have never heard of Goulbourne or many of the other players that were taken in the same time period. I just don't understand how people can be so upset about something that they really know very little about. You want to say you wanted someone else? Fine. I'm right there with you. But don't act like you know more than these guys because someone else said it was a bad pick.

The Flyers saw something in him. What that was I have no idea. But I highly doubt that the Flyers were at the draft saying "this guy will be there in the 7th and he will never make the nhl, but lets draft him in the third anyway!" Which really is what has to have happened according to some, unless you are telling me that you know more than their scouts even though you have barely seen this kid play (if at all) and barely seen the similar draft picks in the third round play (if at all).

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07-02-2013, 09:10 AM
  #149
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Yeah I'm not really defending the player or the pick really. Like I said in previous posts, I would have preferred someone else. But a big part of that is because I have never heard of Goulbourne or many of the other players that were taken in the same time period. I just don't understand how people can be so upset about something that they really know very little about. You want to say you wanted someone else? Fine. I'm right there with you. But don't act like you know more than these guys because someone else said it was a bad pick.

The Flyers saw something in him. What that was I have no idea. But I highly doubt that the Flyers were at the draft saying "this guy will be there in the 7th and he will never make the nhl, but lets draft him in the third anyway!" Which really is what has to have happened according to some, unless you are telling me that you know more than their scouts even though you have barely seen this kid play (if at all) and barely seen the similar draft picks in the third round play (if at all).
Sorry, the guys who get paid to choose whom to pick don't get a free pass because that's their job and they therefore must be better at it than our collective here. Goulbourne is a ridiculous waste of a 3rd rounder, and there is plenty of evidence that the kid has little to nothing noteworthy in terms of actual hockey skills.

As for crawling in to the heads of the Flyers cognizanti to figure out why they would go so far off-board for a thug, I'm coming up with very little that boosts my impression of their aforementioned professional ability to make wise use of this asset (the pick). Maybe in the many gabfests with MacTavish, he double-dog dared Holmgren to take a goon with the silliest name. Maybe they were so thrilled with getting one right in Hägg that they high-fived and back-patted for too long to actually come up with a strategy for the 3rd round. Maybe they forgot they had a pick in the 3rd round. Maybe Holmgren was so pleased at the temper tantrums Rinaldo caused through the league that he just had to stir the pot again.

Because 3rd rounders can actually be valuable, as some have demonstrated, so either a) look for someone with upside in a hockey skill with which your org can work, b) fill an organizational need or c) trade the pick away and reduce the opportunity for others to chuckle at you.

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07-02-2013, 09:21 AM
  #150
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Sorry, the guys who get paid to choose whom to pick don't get a free pass because that's their job and they therefore must be better at it than our collective here. Goulbourne is a ridiculous waste of a 3rd rounder, and there is plenty of evidence that the kid has little to nothing noteworthy in terms of actual hockey skills.

As for crawling in to the heads of the Flyers cognizanti to figure out why they would go so far off-board for a thug, I'm coming up with very little that boosts my impression of their aforementioned professional ability to make wise use of this asset (the pick). Maybe in the many gabfests with MacTavish, he double-dog dared Holmgren to take a goon with the silliest name. Maybe they were so thrilled with getting one right in Hägg that they high-fived and back-patted for too long to actually come up with a strategy for the 3rd round. Maybe they forgot they had a pick in the 3rd round. Maybe Holmgren was so pleased at the temper tantrums Rinaldo caused through the league that he just had to stir the pot again.

Because 3rd rounders can actually be valuable, as some have demonstrated, so either a) look for someone with upside in a hockey skill with which your org can work, b) fill an organizational need or c) trade the pick away and reduce the opportunity for others to chuckle at you.
But again, just because you don't see the upside doesn't mean it isn't there. I'm not saying the kid is going to be anything special, but I'm certainly not going to burn the house down because they picked a guy I never heard of or saw over another guy I never heard of or saw. It's stupid.

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