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Round 3, Pick #72: Tyrell Goulbourne, Forward, Kelowna (WHL)

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Old
07-02-2013, 09:26 AM
  #151
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Well, he does have awards

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07-02-2013, 11:54 AM
  #152
LegionOfDoom91
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Here's an article about the draft from Anthony SanFillippo. He notes the criticism on the Goulbourne pick and asks Chris Pryor why they reached for Goulbourne so early.

http://flyers.nhl.com/club/news.htm?...L%7CPHI%7Chome
Quote:
“We didn’t have a fourth round pick and we knew [from talking to other teams] that he wouldn’t have been there when we picked in the fifth round,” Pryor said. “He may only be a role guy in the NHL, but we think he has a real good chance to play in the NHL, which is the biggest thing. Look at the percentages of guys playing in the league. It gets less and less each round. So, we wanted to jump up a little bit to grab him because we feel he’s going to be in the NHL and anytime you can get a guy who’s going to play at that level, it doesn’t matter where you take him.”
There's also a lot of good info in there on the other draft picks.

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Old
07-02-2013, 12:09 PM
  #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
Here's an article about the draft from Anthony SanFillippo. He notes the criticism on the Goulbourne pick and asks Chris Pryor why they reached for Goulbourne so early.

http://flyers.nhl.com/club/news.htm?...L%7CPHI%7Chome


There's also a lot of good info in there on the other draft picks.
You're a genius Pryor. Says directly that they wasted a 3rd round pick for, at best, a 4th round pick.

Unbelievable.

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07-02-2013, 01:05 PM
  #154
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07-02-2013, 01:14 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by SCOREacek View Post


Well, he does have awards
Do I see "Unsung hero award?" That is a new one on me. The Flyers should institute a new award as well...."The likeable locker room guy award" grandfather it with some names like Cote and Shelley. Dave Brown eventually was just kept around in the locker room to keep the guys "loose" too.

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07-02-2013, 01:21 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by BackWithaVengeance View Post
You're a genius Pryor. Says directly that they wasted a 3rd round pick for, at best, a 4th round pick.

Unbelievable.
Where does he say that? I think it is pretty clear what he is saying: they thought he was a third round talent that could have been had in the fourth but since they didn't have that pick, they picked him in the third. Not that they think he is a fourth round talent. What you are saying is that Pryor (and the rest of the staff) looked at him, said he wasn't as good as other guys on the board and that he doesn't have as good a shot to make it to the NHL as other guys, but they took him anyway because they don't know what they are doing. Is that really what you think happened? Like I said in an earlier post. If that is what happened, then they all should be fired. If they thought there were better players available, and that Goulbourne wasn't worth the pick, but picked him anyway, they all should be fired immediately. But again, do you really think that is what happened?

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07-02-2013, 01:46 PM
  #157
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I believe what he said is that they thought he wont be available in the 4th round because some teams expressed interest.

So, they made a reach and picked him in the 3rd. Ok, fine.

The thing is, they officially call his potential, as good as, Rinaldos. Seriously, do you really have to grab him one round before because someone else could get an, at the very best, 3rd/4th line agitator?

I like Rinaldo as much as much any other Flyers fan, that's not the point.

You want him badly, flip the pick for an early 4th and uhmmm a 4th in 2014.

Do some useful asset management.

I don't think one split second, they don't know what they're doing.
It's more like I am convinced they still have the wrong philosophy and live in the 90's for whatever reason when players like Subban or Björkstand(sp?) were available and went unpicked.

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07-02-2013, 01:48 PM
  #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
Here's an article about the draft from Anthony SanFillippo. He notes the criticism on the Goulbourne pick and asks Chris Pryor why they reached for Goulbourne so early.

http://flyers.nhl.com/club/news.htm?...L%7CPHI%7Chome


There's also a lot of good info in there on the other draft picks.
Thanks for the link. A disappointing line in there for me is:

Quote:
So, the Flyers stayed put. They had three guys they identified that they liked at No. 11. Two were forwards and one defenseman – Morin.
So they didn't like Nurse or Ristolainen ... or is it (more likely) that they took it as fact that these two wouldn't be around at 11? Possible a PR move, too: We got the one defenseman we coveted!! Well, yes and no; considering the noise they made about Nurse, I find it hard to believe they wouldn't have taken him over Morin had both been available. All I can say is that were either available at 11 and the Flyers chose Morin, I'd be shopping for a new TV and probably a marriage counsellor.

And the crap about Goulbourne as a sought-after draftee? Where's that salt shaker? How many of the other GMs were able to say they had him on their lists – and in the 4th round at that – with a straight face?

*RING*

"Paul Holmgren speaking."

"Paul. I'm going to draft a goon in the 4th. I'm gonna do it!" (snicker)

"What? Who is this? What's his name?"

"Goulbourne, Paul. He'll be ours and you. Won't. Have. Him."

*CLICK*

PH: "Crap. Give me that draft sheet ..."

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07-02-2013, 02:38 PM
  #159
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Goulbourne will be an NHL player.

Hopefully he can play center and win faceoffs.

Might as well hope for something.


Last edited by CS: 07-02-2013 at 04:14 PM.
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07-02-2013, 03:57 PM
  #160
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My god, some of you guys are the dramatic people I have ever seen. You're acting like this is some major blunder like there was some sure bet top 6 forward available. 3rd round picks are complete crapshoots. If you get a roster player, a goon, a backup goalie, a 6th defenseman, anyone that plays in the 3rd round or beyond, thats a total win.

In the last 10 years the only player they've taken beyond the 2nd round to be an NHL regular or to play more than 100 NHL games is Rinaldo.

Every team needs agitators and with the slow extinction of the heavyweight, guys like Rinaldo and Goulbourne who can get in on the forecheck, hit, and not be a total liability while on the ice all while stirring the pot are the new school of fighters in the NHL. In the cap era, you need cheap contracts to fill out the bottom of your roster. I'd rather have Rinaldo, or in a few years, Gouldbourne that will be making $600k than a veteran FA that we sign like Shelley for $1.1m and if using a 3rd round pick that would otherwise result in an AHL star like Jonathan Matsumoto, that's fine with me.

For those of you saying that they could have got him in the later rounds, or that they should have traded back in the draft, how do you know this? Just because the ISS ranks him somewhere doesnt mean other teams didn't rank him higher. As for trading back, how many trades were there in the late rounds where you saw a team trade back a round and got an extra pick for doing so? The late rounds are so wide open that nobody will give up anything to move into your spot because there is nobody that valuable there for the taking.

There were 71 players taken before him, half of which will not be NHL players. I know it's not the sexy pick but if the guy is ever a part of this NHL team, it was a good pick because he will have beat the odds.


Last edited by StoneHands: 07-02-2013 at 04:07 PM.
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07-02-2013, 04:14 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by StoneHands View Post
In the last 10 years the only player they've taken beyond the 2nd round to be an NHL regular or to play more than 100 NHL games is Rinaldo.
Is this supposed to validate this wasted pick? All this proves is how badly the Flyers have done in later rounds, when they've actually had picks to use.

How about you tell us what other teams done in the past 10 years with their 3rd round or later picks? I'd bet most teams have more than one 4th line player in that time frame.


Last edited by CharlieGirl: 07-02-2013 at 04:26 PM.
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Old
07-02-2013, 04:22 PM
  #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StoneHands View Post
....
In the last 10 years the only player they've taken beyond the 2nd round to be an NHL regular or to play more than 100 NHL games is Rinaldo.

.....
If I was nitpicking, Rinaldo has played "only" 98 regular season games, but I guess you meant including playoffs. Also, it's not only Rinaldo, Nodl made it to 183 reg. GP. Adding the 2003 draft, there are three other players who made it way over those 100 GP.

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07-02-2013, 04:29 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
Thanks for the link. A disappointing line in there for me is:



So they didn't like Nurse or Ristolainen ... or is it (more likely) that they took it as fact that these two wouldn't be around at 11? Possible a PR move, too: We got the one defenseman we coveted!! Well, yes and no; considering the noise they made about Nurse, I find it hard to believe they wouldn't have taken him over Morin had both been available. All I can say is that were either available at 11 and the Flyers chose Morin, I'd be shopping for a new TV and probably a marriage counsellor.

And the crap about Goulbourne as a sought-after draftee? Where's that salt shaker? How many of the other GMs were able to say they had him on their lists – and in the 4th round at that – with a straight face?

*RING*

"Paul Holmgren speaking."

"Paul. I'm going to draft a goon in the 4th. I'm gonna do it!" (snicker)

"What? Who is this? What's his name?"

"Goulbourne, Paul. He'll be ours and you. Won't. Have. Him."

*CLICK*

PH: "Crap. Give me that draft sheet ..."
I think you're very much misreading that.
What I think is being said is that when the pick came up, there were three available players they liked - two forwards and Morin. Nurse and Risto weren't relevant because they weren't an option at #11.

In the meantime, it continues to be fun to watch the collective meltdown over a third-round pick.

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Old
07-02-2013, 04:35 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by kudymen View Post
If I was nitpicking, Rinaldo has played "only" 98 regular season games, but I guess you meant including playoffs. Also, it's not only Rinaldo, Nodl made it to 183 reg. GP. Adding the 2003 draft, there are three other players who made it way over those 100 GP.
I said "100 NHL games". The playoffs are NHL games.

Nodl was a 2nd rounder, a high one actually. I referred to 3rd rounders or lower.

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07-02-2013, 08:22 PM
  #165
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But again, just because you don't see the upside doesn't mean it isn't there. I'm not saying the kid is going to be anything special, but I'm certainly not going to burn the house down because they picked a guy I never heard of or saw over another guy I never heard of or saw. It's stupid.
If he's calling him "Z2," and I'm hoping he's Andrew Shaw, it seems that in an ass-backwards way, I ended up with the higher hopes for him than the organization. That's probably not a good thing. The hope here needs to be that he is given a larger role with the Rockets next year. You draft a guy because he's the best player available. Period. It seems by the team's own admission, this was not the case.

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07-02-2013, 08:38 PM
  #166
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So until someone gets to see the Flyers scout's notebook about this kid...this discussion is pointless.

Nobody here knows what they REALLY think of the kid. Or what they see his potential to be.

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07-02-2013, 08:47 PM
  #167
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If he turns out to be a Brandon Prust type player I'll call it a success.

I get their reasoning for the pick but I don't agree with it but oh well.

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07-02-2013, 10:06 PM
  #168
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So because they didn't have a 4th round pick they had to take later round talent in the 3rd instead. WHAT?

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07-02-2013, 10:29 PM
  #169
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enough already about his style and why franz fairyskates was a better pick. can the kid play?

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07-02-2013, 11:47 PM
  #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
Here's an article about the draft from Anthony SanFillippo. He notes the criticism on the Goulbourne pick and asks Chris Pryor why they reached for Goulbourne so early.

http://flyers.nhl.com/club/news.htm?...L%7CPHI%7Chome


There's also a lot of good info in there on the other draft picks.
By that logic you can justify using the 1st overall pick on him.

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07-03-2013, 09:15 AM
  #171
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Originally Posted by CarlRacki View Post
I think you're very much misreading that.
What I think is being said is that when the pick came up, there were three available players they liked - two forwards and Morin. Nurse and Risto weren't relevant because they weren't an option at #11.

In the meantime, it continues to be fun to watch the collective meltdown over a third-round pick.
Thanks for your response, Carl. I did include that option in my post, though I think it's somewhat disingenious to believe the Flyers FO took it as a given that neither Nurse nor Ristolainen had a chance (albeit small) of them being available. To me, a proper draft sheet would include even Jones, MacKinnon, etc., which – worst-case scenarios – are easy scratch-offs as the front-drafting teams take them as planned. Having just 3 names scribbled down simply is insufficient organizational planning I'd expect from a professional sports franchise.

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07-03-2013, 10:28 AM
  #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
If he's calling him "Z2," and I'm hoping he's Andrew Shaw, it seems that in an ass-backwards way, I ended up with the higher hopes for him than the organization. That's probably not a good thing. The hope here needs to be that he is given a larger role with the Rockets next year. You draft a guy because he's the best player available. Period. It seems by the team's own admission, this was not the case.
I don't know about this. Again, if that is the case, then I will jump right on board with you and say this is a terrible pick and all should be fired. But the earlier quoted language doesn't say that. It says they thought he would be there in the 4th but not the fifth, so they took him the third. If you read that to mean they picked him over someone they thought was better, that is a bit of a stretch, and I agree, it would be a terrible move. It would make no sense.

A more reasonable reading of that quote is to read it literally: that he would have been there in the 4th but not the 5th, so they took him in the third. Think of it this way. They have a list of players. Player X is at the top in the third, but they think he'll be there in the 4th. They take someone else in the third, get him in the 4th. That is a good strategy. Similarly, if Player X is at the top in the third, but they think he'll be there in the 4th and don't have a 4th, you take that player in the third. It doesn't mean you made a bad pick because you picked him noe round earlier than you hoped. It means you got the guy you wanted. Again, if Player X is not on the top of the list and they take him for some other reason, then it is not a good pick and it defies logic.

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07-03-2013, 10:28 AM
  #173
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I am not nearly as turned off by us picking up Goulbourne as many on here. I have now watched many videos of the lad and I can see why the Flyers brass pulled the trigger on this kid. First of all he can throw haymakers and round houses from both sides faster than anybody I have seen in years.

The kid is absolutely fearless and will hit, check, go into the corners, and drop em with anyone. Those type intangibles are something that is worth the pick to try and develop into a solid 4th liner in my view.

There is no question the Lad will put folks in the seats down in the minors, it will be fun to watch and see if the lads grit and toughness can get him up into the big show one day........This kid is relentless !

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07-03-2013, 10:46 AM
  #174
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I am not nearly as turned off by us picking up Goulbourne as many on here. I have now watched many videos of the lad and I can see why the Flyers brass pulled the trigger on this kid. First of all he can throw haymakers and round houses from both sides faster than anybody I have seen in years.

The kid is absolutely fearless and will hit, check, go into the corners, and drop em with anyone. Those type intangibles are something that is worth the pick to try and develop into a solid 4th liner in my view.

There is no question the Lad will put folks in the seats down in the minors, it will be fun to watch and see if the lads grit and toughness can get him up into the big show one day........This kid is relentless !
The video posted a few pages ago, where Ghoul grounds a guy who is one head taller, definitely caught my attention

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07-03-2013, 11:02 AM
  #175
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After watching him, I'm warming to the pick. A kid who'll fight older, much bigger guys is at least worth taking a chance on. Reminds me a bit of Rinaldo, think that's the obvious comparison.

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