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2012-2013 Rangers Prospects Thread (Player Stats in Post #1; Updated 7/3) *Part IV*

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06-28-2013, 01:15 PM
  #501
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Quote:
Originally Posted by letsgorangers19 View Post
How did Steve Fogarty do this year? Looking at stats, 10 points in 41 games is underwhelming but he was a freshman on a deep, talented ND team. What does he do well and what does he need to improve? Obviously he most likely won't be considered to be signed/go pro for another 2-3 years but I'm curious as to where he stands in this stage of his development. After all, HF does have him ranked as our #1 center prospect.
I wasn't pleased with him last year and I wasn't pleased with him this year. I was a HUGE fan of the pick, but he's been underwhelming to me so far. I saw him play a couple of times at ND and I don't see the top 6 upside that I saw whe he was in MN-HS.

We shall see, though. Plenty of time for him in the scheme of things.

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06-28-2013, 01:18 PM
  #502
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Originally Posted by letsgorangers19 View Post
How did Steve Fogarty do this year? Looking at stats, 10 points in 41 games is underwhelming but he was a freshman on a deep, talented ND team. What does he do well and what does he need to improve? Obviously he most likely won't be considered to be signed/go pro for another 2-3 years but I'm curious as to where he stands in this stage of his development. After all, HF does have him ranked as our #1 center prospect.
In contrast to what Jonathan said, I'm actually pretty pleased with his development. The kid is very skilled offensively, but over the last two years he's been pegged in a more defensive role and has improved that area of his game immensely. He's filling those gaps that take guys from "top six or bust" to viable 3rd line talent should the offensive game never really take off. However, I think the offense will come with a bigger role with the Irish next year.

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06-28-2013, 03:21 PM
  #503
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
In contrast to what Jonathan said, I'm actually pretty pleased with his development. The kid is very skilled offensively, but over the last two years he's been pegged in a more defensive role and has improved that area of his game immensely. He's filling those gaps that take guys from "top six or bust" to viable 3rd line talent should the offensive game never really take off. However, I think the offense will come with a bigger role with the Irish next year.
He was a third liner in the BCHL. Granted it was a stacked team, but it was stacked when compared to other BCHL teams, which are significantly weaker than NCAA or CHL squads. I don't think the Penticton Vees would've been considered stacked if the same squad was playing in the NCAA or the CHL.

Last year he was a fourth liner in the NCAA. People say Notre Dame was stacked. Really? Do you think all 12 of their forwards become NHLers? Then how do you explain him being on the 4th line?

The fact that he's been beaten out by so many people who won't make the NHL for more playing time is not a great sign. Nor did his play show anything. He looked like a run of mill NCAA 4th liner. Foggy needs to improve a lot next year. So far he's just another 3rd round pick, which means he's looking at a career split between the AHL and the ECHL, and retirement by the age of 26.

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06-28-2013, 03:56 PM
  #504
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Originally Posted by Beacon View Post
He was a third liner in the BCHL. Granted it was a stacked team, but it was stacked when compared to other BCHL teams, which are significantly weaker than NCAA or CHL squads. I don't think the Penticton Vees would've been considered stacked if the same squad was playing in the NCAA or the CHL.

Last year he was a fourth liner in the NCAA. People say Notre Dame was stacked. Really? Do you think all 12 of their forwards become NHLers? Then how do you explain him being on the 4th line?

The fact that he's been beaten out by so many people who won't make the NHL for more playing time is not a great sign. Nor did his play show anything. He looked like a run of mill NCAA 4th liner. Foggy needs to improve a lot next year. So far he's just another 3rd round pick, which means he's looking at a career split between the AHL and the ECHL, and retirement by the age of 26.
Ah, yes. A Freshman who wasn't handed a big role out of the gate. How disappointing.

Notre Dame had upperclassmen depth down the middle. Penticton had veterans down the middle. I'm as about as worried about the role Fogarty played as I am the role that Skjei played; I.e., not really worried at all. If Fogarty had sulked and whinged about not seeing more offensive ice, then I'd be worried. Instead, he improved his defensive game by leaps and bounds. That's called player development. He was a 4-5 year project to begin with.

You have your opinion, and I have mine. I'll stick with mine.

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06-28-2013, 03:59 PM
  #505
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FWIW, the main reason I don't see him having much top 6 potential anymore is because he simply hasn't improved that much since he was picked. He was a big kid and was pushing kids around in high school. Got to really showcase his skill there. The higher the level he's gone, the less ability he has had to win battles like that.

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06-28-2013, 04:07 PM
  #506
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
FWIW, the main reason I don't see him having much top 6 potential anymore is because he simply hasn't improved that much since he was picked. He was a big kid and was pushing kids around in high school. Got to really showcase his skill there. The higher the level he's gone, the less ability he has had to win battles like that.
He's turned himself into a solid defensive center with room to grow on both sides of the puck. I really don't see a reason to shun him for it.

If he turns into a solid 4th line center with size and sandpaper, that's just fine by me.

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06-28-2013, 08:11 PM
  #507
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Ah, yes. A Freshman who wasn't handed a big role out of the gate. How disappointing.

Notre Dame had upperclassmen depth down the middle. Penticton had veterans down the middle. I'm as about as worried about the role Fogarty played as I am the role that Skjei played; I.e., not really worried at all. If Fogarty had sulked and whinged about not seeing more offensive ice, then I'd be worried. Instead, he improved his defensive game by leaps and bounds. That's called player development. He was a 4-5 year project to begin with.

You have your opinion, and I have mine. I'll stick with mine.

He's a freshman, but he's a 19 year old freshman (now 20 years old). Look at Nieves, who's an 18 year old freshman.

There are several differences between Foggy and Skjei.

1) Skjei was a first rounder, not a third rounder, which means at draft time, Foggy wasn't seen to be as good and in fact was seen as someone who has a ~10% chance to crack the NHL (based on him falling into the third round).

2) Skjei is a defenseman and they always take longer to develop.

3) Skjei was 18, whereas Foggy was 19. At this age, one year matters.

So point is that you can't compare an 18 year old defenseman to a 19 year old forward.

Skjei was drafted as someone unlikely to crack the NHL. He's done nothing so far to show that he deserves higher accolades than that. Maybe he'll turn it around in the future, but right now, no team would give up more than a third rounder for him.


Last edited by Beacon: 06-28-2013 at 08:26 PM.
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06-28-2013, 08:14 PM
  #508
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Very interesting interview with Gordie Clark on the Rangers website today.


Looks like they were going to draft Vasilevsky last year if he was still available.

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06-29-2013, 11:38 AM
  #509
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Anyone think Thomas gets a longer look this coming year? He probably has one of the best shots on the team, but he's a small player.

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06-29-2013, 01:30 PM
  #510
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Originally Posted by Jabroni1994 View Post
Anyone think Thomas gets a longer look this coming year? He probably has one of the best shots on the team, but he's a small player.
Thomas has the best slap shot (and tremendous other shots) in the system, either on the Rangers, Packers, juniors or college, which is why he will get a chance to crack our lineup. When he shoots, he is hugely effective, but when he tries to be a mucker or a stickhandler, he is a disaster.

He needs to watch tapes of Ziggy Palffy.

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06-29-2013, 02:01 PM
  #511
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Originally Posted by Beacon View Post
Thomas has the best slap shot (and tremendous other shots) in the system, either on the Rangers, Packers, juniors or college, which is why he will get a chance to crack our lineup. When he shoots, he is hugely effective, but when he tries to be a mucker or a stickhandler, he is a disaster.

He needs to watch tapes of Ziggy Palffy.
.

I 100% expect Thomas to make this team out of camp unless his brain has fallen out of his head.

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06-29-2013, 02:17 PM
  #512
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.

I 100% expect Thomas to make this team out of camp unless his brain has fallen out of his head.
I don't. He needs to earn it.

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06-29-2013, 02:18 PM
  #513
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Originally Posted by RangerBlues View Post
.

I 100% expect Thomas to make this team out of camp unless his brain has fallen out of his head.
I agree. So many people are very down on him; I think he has the tools to earn a spot in camp and contribute at this point. The size may be a problem, but hopefully he can compensate for that.

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06-29-2013, 02:19 PM
  #514
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Very interesting interview with Gordie Clark on the Rangers website today.


Looks like they were going to draft Vasilevsky last year if he was still available.
I wouldn't have been terribly upset about it...but what's the point in having the kid ready to go in 4 years yet still be stuck behind Hank for another 3 or 4?

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06-29-2013, 02:49 PM
  #515
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I don't. He needs to earn it.
His job is to get open and bomb away. Pick pockets and fly. There is nothing left for him to learn or develop in Hartford.

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06-29-2013, 05:09 PM
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His job is to get open and bomb away. Pick pockets and fly. There is nothing left for him to learn or develop in Hartford.
That's what training camp is for. He needs to earn the spot over other competitors. Needs to show he can skate and stay up with the big boys.

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06-29-2013, 05:18 PM
  #517
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Anyone think Thomas gets a longer look this coming year? He probably has one of the best shots on the team, but he's a small player.
Thomas was really overvalued coming out of juniors. Now he is almost forgotten. He is a solid prospect for sure. You can summerize him like this: 1. Very small, 2. Great sniper (shot and instincts), 3. Great without the puck.

He is not a great stick handler or skater, and not even a good passer, so that is holding him back. But he could still make it. Needs to develop his game still, but the platform is there to build something on atleast.

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06-29-2013, 05:24 PM
  #518
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His job is to get open and bomb away. Pick pockets and fly. There is nothing left for him to learn or develop in Hartford.
Really? He's still undersized and hasn't produced at a high rate in the AHL. He's probably years away.

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06-29-2013, 05:36 PM
  #519
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Thomas was really overvalued coming out of juniors. Now he is almost forgotten. He is a solid prospect for sure. You can summerize him like this: 1. Very small, 2. Great sniper (shot and instincts), 3. Great without the puck.

He is not a great stick handler or skater, and not even a good passer, so that is holding him back. But he could still make it. Needs to develop his game still, but the platform is there to build something on atleast.
Yup this, if he can channel the ghost of Brett Hull past then a team has to make room somewhere. Brett hull couldnt do anything but score 50 goals a year.

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06-29-2013, 05:39 PM
  #520
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Who do you seeing making a bigger impact for NYR in the future, JT Miller or Oscar Lindberg?

If we had to include one of them in a trade, who do you choose?

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06-29-2013, 06:54 PM
  #521
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBlues View Post
.

I 100% expect Thomas to make this team out of camp unless his brain has fallen out of his head.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBlues View Post
His job is to get open and bomb away. Pick pockets and fly. There is nothing left for him to learn or develop in Hartford.
He has a few good games where he shoots whenever he can, then he gains confidence and starts to stickhandling, which is a disaster exceeded only by his attempts to go into the corners. Then he loses all confidence and disappears. Then the coach says something and he starts firing away again for a few games, but returns to the same cycle.

What he needs to learn is not to keep the puck for more than half a second. If he has the puck coming to him, he needs to fire it right away. If he is too far from the net, he needs to pass it to someone else and skate up using his speed. Think of Kreider, but with a better shot and smaller stature.

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06-29-2013, 06:55 PM
  #522
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
Thomas was really overvalued coming out of juniors. Now he is almost forgotten. He is a solid prospect for sure. You can summerize him like this: 1. Very small, 2. Great sniper (shot and instincts), 3. Great without the puck.

He is not a great stick handler or skater, and not even a good passer, so that is holding him back. But he could still make it. Needs to develop his game still, but the platform is there to build something on atleast.
He's a very good skater.


Quote:
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Really? He's still undersized and hasn't produced at a high rate in the AHL. He's probably years away.
In his defense, he was much better in the second half of the season than the first half. There were significant stretches of time when he was the best player in Hartford. When he uses his shot, he is a terrific AHL player and probably a solid NHLer.

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07-02-2013, 08:23 AM
  #523
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I updated the tables in the first post with the stats from our recent draftees.

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07-02-2013, 08:33 AM
  #524
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He's a very good skater.
There is a risk for apples and organges-talk when it comes to skating.

This is my perspective; you got a prospect who is really small, he is supposed to be a scoring forward, he isn't a wiz with the puck and he can't playmake; but he is a awsome sniper and got a great nose for the net. Question: What level should his skating be at to be a top 2 line winger in the NHL? Be able to score 30 in his best years?

From that perspective, Thomas skating is averge at best. He is not on par with the level it would take him to put him in that role in the NHL everything else considered.

Sure, if we are comparing him with Ethan Werek or Andrew Yogan or Pyatt and co, he is a good skater. Like I said, I like Thomas. His hustle and play away from the puck is great. His nose for the net is great. His shot is really good. On the other hand, the competition in the NHL is really tough. Coming out of the OHL, people expected him to score 40+40 in the NHL. People compared him with everyone from MSL to Parise. That talk wasn't in touch with reality. He has no ability that puts him on that level. His shot isn't world class, its good plain and simple. His nose for the net is up there, but that alone isn't enough. He is really small. His skating is not world class, that Russian midget we got in kids camp skates eights around Thomas.

Thomas is right up there with Dawes, Prucha and co. These guys can make it, just because those two didn't, it doesn't mean Thomas won't. But he got a challenge infront of him.


Last edited by Ola: 07-02-2013 at 08:42 AM.
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07-02-2013, 08:35 AM
  #525
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No, Thomas is a good skater in general.

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