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The History of Hockey Relive great moments in hockey history and discuss how the game has changed over time.

Is Chris Pronger's career a disappointment to you?

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Old
07-01-2013, 07:52 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I think Lidstrom was better against larger guys than Pronger was against smaller faster guys. Pronger really got torn apart by the Blackhawks top line in 2010 after they went all-speed. I also thought Pronger looked out of his element at times in the 2010 Olympics. The only guy i remember consistently giving Lidstrom trouble was Forsberg.

Lidstrom could sometimes be outmuscled in front of the net, but it wasnt often a problem for him
God dammit, TDMM.

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07-01-2013, 08:44 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
There's a wider gap in his peak/career value than you'd obviously like, but his peak is so freaking good that you'd have to be an absolute stickler for longevity to use the word disappointment and really mean it.
I'm a stickler and he isn't a disappointment to me.

It's extremely hard to be consistently great or even excellent that's why so few have been in history.

Every player worth heir salt wants to be in his peak absolute prime each and every single game but it's something 99% of players can't do.

That's why I value a player like Wayne Gretzky, Ray Bourque or Nick Lidstrom, these guys were able to bring it for extremely long periods of time.

Sure a bit of Pronger's shine has been lost to injuries but so ahve many players in the last couple of decades or so. (much more so than in the preceding eras for a number of different and compounding reasons)

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07-01-2013, 09:18 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I think Lidstrom was better against larger guys than Pronger was against smaller faster guys. Pronger really got torn apart by the Blackhawks top line in 2010 after they went all-speed. I also thought Pronger looked out of his element at times in the 2010 Olympics. The only guy i remember consistently giving Lidstrom trouble was Forsberg.

Lidstrom could sometimes be outmuscled in front of the net, but it wasnt often a problem for him
Ignoring game five, he had 4 points through 5 games played and a +8 rating, averaging 30:02 minutes a night. The combination of Kane and Toews combined for 8 points through 5 games, and a -8 rating. If that's getting torn apart, there are other guys around the league getting absolutely murdered, some of which were Norris favorites these last few seasons (e.g. Karlsson, Letang, Subban, etc.)

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07-01-2013, 09:30 PM
  #29
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If going in to the '93 draft you would be able to tell me that Pronger would fall short of Bourque, Potvin, and Robinson and be at least close to and some times even better than a guy who will go down as one of the top 5-6 defensemen of all-time (Lidstrom), would I still take him 2nd overall?

No. I'd trade up to take him 1st.

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07-01-2013, 10:03 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clown Baby View Post
Ignoring game five, he had 4 points through 5 games played and a +8 rating, averaging 30:02 minutes a night. The combination of Kane and Toews combined for 8 points through 5 games, and a -8 rating. If that's getting torn apart, there are other guys around the league getting absolutely murdered, some of which were Norris favorites these last few seasons (e.g. Karlsson, Letang, Subban, etc.)
Games 5 and 6 were where Pronger got torn apart. After Quenneville took Byfuglien off the top line and went with all speed.

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07-01-2013, 10:52 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Games 5 and 6 were where Pronger got torn apart. After Quenneville took Byfuglien off the top line and went with all speed.
Game 6 he had a PP assist, finished +1, and played 29:44. He was on the ice for 13 of Phialdelphia's 24 shots, 20 of Chicago's 41, 2 goals for, 0 goals against, credited with 2 giveaways, 1 takeaway, 2 hits, 2 shots, and 2 blocked shots. Again... not torn apart.

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07-02-2013, 12:52 AM
  #32
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To me Pronger's career is disappointing in the same way in which Coffey kind of finished his, with a fizzle. Pronger leaves the game inured and not on his own terms.

As for his body of work, I think met expectations and probably exceeded them. Hart trophy that was Jagr's until he went down, but playing healthy may not be a skill but is important.

He took Edmonton on his back with a bit of help to game 7 of the Cup finals, probably only losing because they lost Rollie.

Gets traded and then helps take the Ducks to the finals and wins.

Forgetting his off ice smack to Edmonton and leaving, he was truly a game changer, no one else you'd want on your blue line for the playoffs.

Its sad he left due to injury, his career is somewhat unfinished.

I don't see how he is a disappointment.

I'll miss his sense of humour, more players need that.

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07-02-2013, 01:18 AM
  #33
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I still think he would have won the Conn Smythe had be not been suspended twice in the 07 run for the Ducks.

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07-02-2013, 03:31 AM
  #34
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A little bit.

Personally, I always thought that Niedermayer and Pronger were supposed to be the competition for Lidstrom. But they weren't...and not only because Lidstrom was just that good, but also because neither player really seemed to be able to put together two consistent superstar seasons.

You could argue that injuries gypped Pronger of a few trophies, but at the turn of the century a lot of us thought he was going to be the next big name on defense. Size, skating, high hockey IQ, great wingspan, insane compete level, mean streak, strength, physicality. Plus, he was playing so fantastically at a very young age.

But even when he was healthy, Pronger went through many stretches were he wasn't that guy. Of course, he always was that guy in the playoffs, which artificially boosts the image people have of him.

Niedermayer is much the same. Always had some really good playoffs that made you think more was coming....

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07-02-2013, 07:40 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by DisgruntledGoat View Post
With the exception of Bobby Orr, I feel that Pronger is in the discussion as the most physically gifted defenseman of all-time. I mean, its kind of ridiculous when you start to break it down: huge, could skate, tremendous hockey IQ, best first pass of his era, 100 mph slapshot, poised with the puck, hits, blocks shots, shuts down top forwards, quarterbacks powerplays, mean as hell, insanely competitive. I don't if you could build a more complete defenseman if you tried.

And yet, he only won one Norris.
Yes you could. Vyacheslav Fetisov. All the things you attribute to Pronger, Fetisov posessed also. He also didn't win any Norrises, for obvious reasons. But he won two Cups.

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07-02-2013, 09:14 AM
  #36
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Not really. The guy is regarded as one of the better players of all time and a sure fire Hall of Famer when he retires. Imagine if Ottawa had picked him instead of Daigle in 1993.

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07-02-2013, 09:21 AM
  #37
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Not at all, one of the greatest defensemen I ever got to watch play. A shame it ended the way it did but that's a hall of fame career if I've ever seen one.

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07-02-2013, 09:30 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by tony d View Post
Not really. The guy is regarded as one of the better players of all time and a sure fire Hall of Famer when he retires. Imagine if Ottawa had picked him instead of Daigle in 1993.
Assuming he sticks with Ottawa and the Yashin trade still happens, imagine a Pronger/Chara pairing

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07-02-2013, 10:01 AM
  #39
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if pronger's career was a disappointment, then what would we call kariya's? or viktor kozlov or chris gratton or rob niedermayer? or how about daigle?

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07-02-2013, 12:08 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I think Lidstrom was better against larger guys than Pronger was against smaller faster guys. Pronger really got torn apart by the Blackhawks top line in 2010 after they went all-speed. I also thought Pronger looked out of his element at times in the 2010 Olympics. The only guy i remember consistently giving Lidstrom trouble was Forsberg.

Lidstrom could sometimes be outmuscled in front of the net, but it wasnt often a problem for him
not to forget his miserable blues playoffs where smaller guys went around him all the time...

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07-02-2013, 12:16 PM
  #41
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It maybe could have been better, but I don't think disappointment is the right word.

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07-02-2013, 12:50 PM
  #42
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To add something to the OPs question, no it wasnt a disspointment but I thought he was going to bust from the expectations. Maybe not to the extent of Daigle but that he would stay a middle-pairing physical defenseman with a bit of offensive output.

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07-02-2013, 12:53 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
I'm a stickler and he isn't a disappointment to me.

It's extremely hard to be consistently great or even excellent that's why so few have been in history.

Every player worth heir salt wants to be in his peak absolute prime each and every single game but it's something 99% of players can't do.

That's why I value a player like Wayne Gretzky, Ray Bourque or Nick Lidstrom, these guys were able to bring it for extremely long periods of time.

Sure a bit of Pronger's shine has been lost to injuries but so ahve many players in the last couple of decades or so. (much more so than in the preceding eras for a number of different and compounding reasons)
So how do you value Gordie Howe?

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07-02-2013, 01:04 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Psycho Papa Joe View Post
Assuming he sticks with Ottawa and the Yashin trade still happens, imagine a Pronger/Chara pairing
I've often wondered what that would look like. During the DPE, I would assume they could simply hold hands and reach their sticks out to the boards, leaving.... 4 feet of room to go wide???

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07-02-2013, 01:20 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho Papa Joe View Post
Assuming he sticks with Ottawa and the Yashin trade still happens, imagine a Pronger/Chara pairing
I'm sure they would have been a very forgettable pairing.

As in, you'd end up without any memory of playing against them.

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07-02-2013, 07:20 PM
  #46
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Not a disappointment by any stretch. Vastly overrated though.

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07-02-2013, 07:48 PM
  #47
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A career that encapsulates a Hart and Norris Trophy season and three finals appearances on three separate clubs spread out over a ten year span can't possibly be seen as a disappointment.

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07-02-2013, 09:17 PM
  #48
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A career that encapsulates a Hart and Norris Trophy season and three finals appearances on three separate clubs spread out over a ten year span can't possibly be seen as a disappointment.
It's a disappointment if you thought he'd be the next generational defenseman, which is what he looked like in 2000. Nobody here is going to rank Pronger on the same level as Larry Robinson or even Denis Potvin, but that's what he looked like he would become in 2000.

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07-02-2013, 09:24 PM
  #49
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The guy is a slam dunk for the hall of fame--not sure how that put him in the disappointment catagory

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07-02-2013, 09:51 PM
  #50
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All I can tell you is when Tyler Myers won the Calder, everyone in Buffalo was saying "you know, if this kid builds out and develops a mean streak, he could be the next Pronger(or Chara)"

and when the Sabres drafted Ristolainen one of the players he was immediately compared to was Pronger.

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