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Bergevin tried to get a top 10 pick and draft Samuel Morin

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Old
07-02-2013, 09:57 AM
  #26
BrimStone64
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Originally Posted by WestIslander View Post
Bergevin tried to trade up in the top 10 and some (including Mackenzie and Dregger) say that they wanted Samuel Morin, the 6'6" defenseman from Rimouski who apparently has Chris Pronger written all over him.

http://www.thehockeynews.com/article...-Bergevin.html

Imagine a core of:

Subban - Gorges
Tinordi - Morin
Emelin - Beaulieu

Plus Ellis, Thrower, Dietz, Nygren and Didier
Been kind of cool to have French version of Pronger. But oh well, at 25 you need to be looking at bottom 6 forwards or bottom pairing defensemen. I was thinking draft day...if we could sign Vinny, trade Pleks to move up in top 5-6, then trade down couple of slots picking up Horvat and another 2nd. But Morin been cool also.

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07-02-2013, 10:03 AM
  #27
CHarlie
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What were we offering for that pick?

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07-02-2013, 10:05 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestIslander View Post
Bergevin tried to trade up in the top 10 and some (including Mackenzie and Dregger) say that they wanted Samuel Morin, the 6'6" defenseman from Rimouski who apparently has Chris Pronger written all over him.

http://www.thehockeynews.com/article...-Bergevin.html

Imagine a core of:

Subban - Gorges
Tinordi - Morin
Emelin - Beaulieu

Plus Ellis, Thrower, Dietz, Nygren and Didier
Did anyone really think Morin would fall to 25? For over two months I'd been banging the drum that the experts (real and imagined) who saw Morin as a late first round (some even saying he'd be available mid -second round) were way off the mark. I predicted he would go top 10. I was wrong, he went 11. I would have taken him 6th before Monahan, Ristolainen, etc. But then again, I wouldn't have taken Barkov second but instead I would have taken Nichushkin fourth, after McKinnon, Jones and Drouin. Despite my appreciation for Morin's great potential I also repeatedly posted my opinion that because of the hype surrounding this draft, any attempt to move up significantly in the draft would have been way too expensive and thus counterproductive. I don't know what they offered to move up in to the top ten, but suppose it was our 25, 34 , 36 picks and a prospect. In this draft, with it's depth, that is way too expensive a price to pay. While I'm not in love with the McCarron pick and really like De la Rose (in fact I would have had no issue with him at 25), the pick that was the most inspired was Fucale. The choice of Fucale represents the approach that a team should take: acquiring the best talent available. It's asset management at its best. All the talk I hear that the choice of Fucale was being used to push or motivate Price is complete nonsense. Fucale was generally viewed as the best goalie available of his draft class and that halo effect will follow him over the coming years until he achieves his promise or is exposed as yet another highly touted goalie who just doesn't have it. But we acquired an important asset who can possibly become our franchise goalie in the future or, like Vancouver did with Schnieder, or we did with Halak, be traded for another valuable asset down the line. Despite the brainfart that was Crisp, the acquisition of Fucale and De la Rose by themselves, gives this draft a passing grade. If MacCarron and Lehkonnen reach their respective potentials, this may well be regarded as one of our best drafts since 1984.


Last edited by ChesterNimitz: 07-02-2013 at 10:15 AM.
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07-02-2013, 10:21 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by MonkeyBusiness View Post
That is a possibility, Tinordi is going to be a top 4 d-man for the Habs. But Morin certainly does have more upside than him, that's not saying Tinordi isn,t a great prospect though.
More upside? Not sure whatsoever. Tinordi WILL be a beast as we already saw some of his strengths in the NHL already. Morin is just a pipe dream and will still need to develop.

I always take the ready one when two guys are close in potential cause he is a SURE fire. I agree with you though Morin will be good ....but good like???? Crystal ball needed here

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07-02-2013, 10:27 AM
  #30
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Don't know if it's been mentioned but, not only did MB have a deal worked out with Philly, when he found out they were likely to draft Morin, he also struck a deal with Vancouver for 9th overall to pip Morin, but they wanted Horvat.

The most encouraging thing for me was that MB was willing to pay the high asking price. He understands there's a time and place for everything.

Also wanted to mention, he still wanted McCarron with one of the two second round picks. But when the 25th pick came, he didn't want to take a chance and lose him too.

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07-02-2013, 10:36 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Erik Estrada View Post
Would have loved Morin. I'm happy with the haul that replaced it. Getting Fucale where we did, tipped the scale for me.
If Fucale would of been in the 12 draft he probably would of went top 20. Since this year was deeper in D and forwards he slipped out of first round and Habs stole another top goalie for the future.

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07-02-2013, 10:39 AM
  #32
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The bigger question is,who was the Habs ready to trade.....there still here ...for now


Lots of better players than Morin on the trade market, NHL ready....

If the Habs we"re ready to pay a very high Price for Morin, i would think the players that Habs was ready to deal, are still avail to be traded.
You have to figure that either one of Beaulieu/Tinordi were in the mix with possibly a Kristo/Gallagher as well.

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07-02-2013, 10:40 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by googlymoogly View Post
If Fucale would of been in the 12 draft he probably would of went top 20. Since this year was deeper in D and forwards he slipped out of first round and Habs stole another top goalie for the future.
I know Craig Button from tsn is not the best but he had Fucale top 10 in his list and said that this will be the best goalie out of the draft in recent years.

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07-02-2013, 10:43 AM
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What were we offering for that pick?
It's probably better we don't find out

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07-02-2013, 10:45 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by googlymoogly View Post
If Fucale would of been in the 12 draft he probably would of went top 20. Since this year was deeper in D and forwards he slipped out of first round and Habs stole another top goalie for the future.
Fucale was tremendous value at 36.

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07-02-2013, 10:46 AM
  #36
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It's probably better we don't find out
MB said it was a high price, but he was willing to do it. Let's assume it would've been our first and a current roster player.

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07-02-2013, 10:49 AM
  #37
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I'm not too sure.... I think it's an RDS fantasy that they wanted Morin.... I'm pretty damn sure Horvat was their guy. Of course it's out of pure speculation, but so is the potential Morin pick.(Unless there's a link of TT and MB saying out loud its Morin they wanted)

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07-02-2013, 11:03 AM
  #38
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I feel like Horvat was the target as well, sure seems more Timmins type of pick

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07-02-2013, 11:08 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Galcherock View Post
I know Craig Button from tsn is not the best but he had Fucale top 10 in his list and said that this will be the best goalie out of the draft in recent years.
It might be good that the trade fell through otherwise those 2nd round picks might of been part of the trade to get 9th pick. We would have Morin but would of lost Fucale. Timmins is better off with more picks to find gems, I was kind of scared at the thought they may trade away too much to move up. Now we get to see in a few years if it was better with more picks. Only time will tell now.


Last edited by googlymoogly: 07-02-2013 at 11:16 AM.
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07-02-2013, 11:10 AM
  #40
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More upside? Not sure whatsoever. Tinordi WILL be a beast as we already saw some of his strengths in the NHL already. Morin is just a pipe dream and will still need to develop.

I always take the ready one when two guys are close in potential cause he is a SURE fire. I agree with you though Morin will be good ....but good like???? Crystal ball needed here
Yes Morin has more upside, that is a fact. No one knows if he will reach his potential though.

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07-02-2013, 11:34 AM
  #41
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I also think they wanted to go for Horvat and had a trade ready with Dallas or Philly but that got cancelled when Vancouver traded for the pick. Just wonder what the trade would have been got to think something along the 25th, 36th picks and a prospect like Kristo or 25th pick, 55 and Nathan Beaulieu (Considering Philly needs D). For Horvat I would have been glad, for Morin, I don't know even though I figured he'd go around 10, he's just much more of a gamble.


Last edited by Doublechin: 07-02-2013 at 11:42 AM.
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07-02-2013, 12:01 PM
  #42
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MB said it was a high price, but he was willing to do it. Let's assume it would've been our first and a current roster player.
Pretty sure the only 1st Pick truly available was the New Jersey one..If Vancouver had to give Schneider (Future Top 3 goalie) to get the Pick it's because someone inflated the Price somewhere.

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07-02-2013, 12:01 PM
  #43
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Yes Morin has more upside, that is a fact. No one knows if he will reach his potential though.
Not sure you know what a fact is. Having more potential is merely an opinion.

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07-02-2013, 12:03 PM
  #44
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Pretty sure the only 1st Pick truly available was the New Jersey one..If Vancouver had to give Schneider (Future Top 3 goalie) to get the Pick it's because someone inflated the Price somewhere.
I would think it's the other way around. New Jersey probably called Vancouver concerning their goalie problem, but omst likely said that Luongo was in no interest to them. Asking price for Schneider became 1st rd pick. I assume that's the way it went.

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07-02-2013, 12:04 PM
  #45
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If true, we can assume we were willing to give up 25, 34 AND 36?

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07-02-2013, 12:05 PM
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Not sure you know what a fact is. Having more potential is merely an opinion.
Morin has more offensive potential than Tinordi, no one can argue with that.

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07-02-2013, 12:16 PM
  #47
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Morin isn't worth that.

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07-02-2013, 12:18 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by WestIslander View Post
Bergevin tried to trade up in the top 10 and some (including Mackenzie and Dregger) say that they wanted Samuel Morin, the 6'6" defenseman from Rimouski who apparently has Chris Pronger written all over him.

http://www.thehockeynews.com/article...-Bergevin.html

Imagine a core of:

Subban - Gorges
Tinordi - Morin
Emelin - Beaulieu

Plus Ellis, Thrower, Dietz, Nygren and Didier
Gorges? Buzzkill.

Anyway not sure what the price would have been to move up, happy with what we got.

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07-02-2013, 12:21 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by MonkeyBusiness View Post
Morin has more offensive potential than Tinordi, no one can argue with that.
Maybe.....he does not show it right now (4-12-16) Projections are projections.....not facts.

The fact is Tinordi can play NOW in the NHL and his development is perfect to date. Will it be for Morin? Mystery.

The only thing I agree on is that he has more potential offensively but that's not a sure thing he will develop it in the NHL if he can't produce more than 16pts in juniors. Not all 6'6" and up guys develop offense like Chara did.

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07-02-2013, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Galcherock View Post
Maybe.....he does not show it right now (4-12-16) Projections are projections.....not facts.

The fact is Tinordi can play NOW in the NHL and his development is perfect to date. Will it be for Morin? Mystery.

The only thing I agree on is that he has more potential offensively but that's not a sure thing he will develop it in the NHL if he can't produce more than 16pts in juniors. Not all 6'6" and up guys develop offense like Chara did.
Look at my comments, I never said he was a sure thing. In fact you keep trying to dismiss my points, Morin does have more upside than Tinordi. That is true, what we don't know is if he will reach his potential. Plus you are only looking at his stats, he progressed so much during the season that scouts were amazed.

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