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2013 NHL Draft - Pick #75 - Pavel Buchnevich

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Old
07-01-2013, 11:01 PM
  #226
TheRightWay
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
Really help shows who knows what they're talking about and who doesn't.
Conversely, here are some thoughts when the Rangers got some big tough guys like everyone is seemingly clamoring for.

Dale Weise

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not only that he is a winger with size we need that.
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After seeing how soft our forwards were in front of the net, I can't see how this was a bad pick.
Jason Wilson

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I really like that we went for size
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although one thing he does add to the organization is size

Randy McNaught

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I kind of always wanted the Rangers to have draft like this, where they finally addressed the toughness issue that has plagued them forever.
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I haven't been this proud since the the '94 Cup...which was filled with Goons, and power forwards.

Why it took 20 years to figure that out again is beyond me.
^ It should take two guesses maximum to figure out who uttered this brilliance.



This is not all to say that drafting bigger guys is a bad thing. The point is that it's stupid to celebrate/ridicule a draft pick based on a tape measure and what a couple paragraphs you found through a google search say. The whole Animal Farm-esque mentality of "big and tough Good. Small and soft bad" is ****ing stupid and meaningless. The NHL draft isn't Build-A-Bear. There's a very limited supply of players and of that limited supply an even more limited number will ever make it to the NHL. Gordie Clark can wish for a 6'4 goal scoring power forward at 80th overall all he wants but if the clearly superior value at that spot is a particular 5'11 winger then he needs to grab him.

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07-01-2013, 11:05 PM
  #227
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
And the Giants are the perfect example of a team with competent management. A great reason why I have not spent a penny on the Rangers since the first lockout but without fail renew my Giants season tickets and parking passes.
Ding ding ding. That is what sets the two apart.

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07-01-2013, 11:12 PM
  #228
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Meh the Giants are mostly a good example of a team that has won in super small 1 game playoff sample sizes. For the most part over the past several years their regular season/overall record/times making the playoffs hasn't been all that impressive. They won once as a 10-6 wildcard team and once as a 9-7 wildcard team. They're really not that much different except it's easier for an upset to an occur in the nfl than the nhl given 1 game playoff rounds versus 7 game series.

They're 77-51 in the past 8 years with 4 playoff runs. Of those 8 years they've had 2 very good regular seasons at 11-5 and 12-4. Then a bunch of good/slightly above average. Pretty similar results to the Rangers in that time frame.

Take out a fluke catch by a backup off of his helmet and such and they're not talked about the same way.

Additionally, football is completely different because 90% of the way to looking like you have a competent front office/coach is to have a star QB. Have Manning/Brady/Rodgers/Brees/Ben etc... you never get questioned and are always treated like you're great just because you win a lot by having that star. Replace Eli with some journeyman QB and all of a sudden everyones opinion on their front office is completely different.


Last edited by SA16: 07-01-2013 at 11:21 PM.
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07-01-2013, 11:15 PM
  #229
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Ding ding ding. That is what sets the two apart.
Dude, calling the Giants' front office "competent" is like calling Harvard "a good school". There are probably 4 franchises that are in the Giants' league right now, the Pats, the Steelers, Ravens and a few years ago, the Colts. The Giants are the cream of the crop. Using them as a standard and worrying that the Rangers don't meet it is a sure way to get ulcers.

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07-01-2013, 11:20 PM
  #230
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
Dude, calling the Giants' front office "competent" is like calling Harvard "a good school". There are probably 4 franchises that are in the Giants' league right now, the Pats, the Steelers, Ravens and a few years ago, the Colts. The Giants are the cream of the crop. Using them as a standard and worrying that the Rangers don't meet it is a sure way to get ulcers.
I just have seemingly high expectations for the 2nd most valuable franchise and team with constantly the highest payroll. I just think it's time to move on with 13 yrs at the reign of Sather, where the Rangers need a dramatic change in front office identity. And this does not reflect on this pick lol. I have never watched Buchenvich, but I'm getting more excited with the added comments/vids about him. I hope we have more WJC players next season. I believe we only had Cersenek and he wasn't even qualified IIRC.

edit: How can I forget Miller lol.

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07-01-2013, 11:28 PM
  #231
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
I just have seemingly high expectations for the 2nd most valuable franchise and team with constantly the highest payroll. I just think it's time to move on with 13 yrs at the reign of Sather, where the Rangers need a dramatic change in front office identity. And this does not reflect on this pick lol. I have never watched Buchenvich, but I'm getting more excited with the added comments/vids about him. I hope we have more WJC players next season. I believe we only had Cersenek and he wasn't even qualified IIRC.

edit: How can I forget Miller lol.
It's fair to want Sather gone, but posting in every thread how terrible the team gets tiresome.

Oh and the payroll doesn't matter that much in a capped league.

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07-01-2013, 11:31 PM
  #232
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
It's fair to want Sather gone, but posting in every thread how terrible the team gets tiresome.

Oh and the payroll doesn't matter that much in a capped league.
I'm not saying the team is terrible, I'm saying the front office is terrible. Which makes for terrible decision of the team. Rangers are amongst highest cap spenders post lockout.

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07-02-2013, 12:08 AM
  #233
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Sather, Gorton, Clark, Schoenfeld, most of the scouts, and the rest of the "brain trust" would have all been shown the door in any other market years ago.

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07-02-2013, 12:24 AM
  #234
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Originally Posted by bmoak View Post
Sather, Gorton, Clark, Schoenfeld, most of the scouts, and the rest of the "brain trust" would have all been shown the door in any other market years ago.
Sather would have been shown the door before the lockout, I agree. Gorton and Clark, I don't know why. Gorton especially has a good track record.

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07-02-2013, 12:31 AM
  #235
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
Sather would have been shown the door before the lockout, I agree. Gorton and Clark, I don't know why. Gorton especially has a good track record.
The two of them basically saved this franchise we actually have players on the team that we drafted.

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07-02-2013, 05:18 AM
  #236
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So this russian has some good hands......

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07-02-2013, 09:19 AM
  #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
jon.

i generally agree with most of what you say. i usually find you pretty well informed.

this time, you are flat out incorrect. i guess its a matter of semantics. power forward, i guess, can have many definitions.

those 3 i mentioned most definitely are power forward type players.

the kassian/biggs type player, although easy to fall in love with, generally does best in a bottom 6 role. the thought of a guy who can fight and grind and score goals all at the same time is rare, to say the least.
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Originally Posted by slipknottin View Post
Callahan isn't a power forward because hes 5'11 and can be out muscled by most defenders. Kreider is bigger than most guys he plays against. He is still developing, but he does show in spurts how physical and strong he is along the boards, and how powerful his lower body is especially
I just don't see how he's a powerforward. The only reason you guys seem to be using that term is because he's 6'4" 220 or so. Size is not the only factor. You actually have to play like a power forward.

It's why Nash is only a bit of a PF. And he's more engaged in front of the net than Kreider ever will be.

To me, Kreider is a big sniper. That's it. Not a powerforward. In fact, I'd be willing to say that if he can't succeed as a sniper then he will have to reinvent his game and play more like a powerforward (ala fast 3rd liner who hits). His game was never geared towards being a PF in college. He was never a PF in the AHL. And I don't think he'll play like one in the NHL as long as he can be successful shooting the puck. He's so much more effective when he's NOT playing a PF role.

And offda -- there is a reason that those types of players are so rare. Genuine PF prospects are highly valued and extremely rare. This is re-defining the term to fit a player.

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07-02-2013, 09:22 AM
  #238
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
I just don't see how he's a powerforward. The only reason you guys seem to be using that term is because he's 6'4" 220 or so. Size is not the only factor. You actually have to play like a power forward.

It's why Nash is only a bit of a PF. And he's more engaged in front of the net than Kreider ever will be.

To me, Kreider is a big sniper. That's it. Not a powerforward. In fact, I'd be willing to say that if he can't succeed as a sniper then he will have to reinvent his game and play more like a powerforward (ala fast 3rd liner who hits). His game was never geared towards being a PF in college. He was never a PF in the AHL. And I don't think he'll play like one in the NHL as long as he can be successful shooting the puck. He's so much more effective when he's NOT playing a PF role.

And offda -- there is a reason that those types of players are so rare. Genuine PF prospects are highly valued and extremely rare. This is re-defining the term to fit a player.
I think you are redefining the term. A big player who hits is a power forward. Kreider is getting more comfortable along the boards and in front of the net as well.

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07-02-2013, 09:25 AM
  #239
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Originally Posted by slipknottin View Post
I think you are redefining the term. A big player who hits is a power forward. Kreider is getting more comfortable along the boards and in front of the net as well.
How am I re-defining the term? Since when has "powerforward" been used to describe someone who is merely big? Kreider does not play the game of a powerforward. It's as ridiculous as calling Vanek one. Clearly the lack of current, true PFs in this league has watered down the term quite extensively.

Kreider is not good in front of the net and never has been throughout his career. I've watched him extensively every step of the way. In fact, one of the main complaints with us use on his 2nd WJC team was the ridiculous use of him standing in front of the net.

That's not his game at all. It never was.

His game is cycling with the puck and then trying to get open by the faceoff dots for a shot (or, obviously getting a breakaway with his speed). His game is completely neutralized in front of the net.

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07-02-2013, 10:38 AM
  #240
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Hmm. I thought I recall Beacon saying Kreider was most effective in his AHL stints in front of the net? Maybe I'm mistaken tho

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07-02-2013, 11:06 AM
  #241
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Hmm. I thought I recall Beacon saying Kreider was most effective in his AHL stints in front of the net? Maybe I'm mistaken tho
I've never seen him play an effective game in front of his net. In fact, if he played that way in Hartford, it would make sense why his point totals were so brutal. Just watch the 2011 WJC again to see how ineffective he is parked in front of his net. Nullifying his speed like that is retarded. Coaches see him as a big body and just instantly think SCREEN (sort of like the dog in "Up" that goes SQUIRREL).


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07-02-2013, 11:26 AM
  #242
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I seem to remember Kreider knocking a Boston defenseman who is quite tough on his butt 3 times during the same shift. I'd say that means you can be a power forward. It's a matter of what Kreider wants to be.

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07-02-2013, 11:30 AM
  #243
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
How am I re-defining the term? Since when has "powerforward" been used to describe someone who is merely big? Kreider does not play the game of a powerforward. It's as ridiculous as calling Vanek one. Clearly the lack of current, true PFs in this league has watered down the term quite extensively.

Kreider is not good in front of the net and never has been throughout his career. I've watched him extensively every step of the way. In fact, one of the main complaints with us use on his 2nd WJC team was the ridiculous use of him standing in front of the net.

That's not his game at all. It never was.

His game is cycling with the puck and then trying to get open by the faceoff dots for a shot (or, obviously getting a breakaway with his speed). His game is completely neutralized in front of the net.
kreider has not found his identity yet. in some ways his wheels are a detriment to his settling into a role he can be comfortable in. hes a horse with wheels.

i see no reason to ever have kreider standing still. his best attributes continue to be size and speed. when hes got a head of steam, hes difficult to contain wide. his crossover power stride is flawless.

maybe hes an eric lindros type player who uses his size to punish people and creates with his skating or perhaps a cam neely clone who was more a prototypical power/scoring forward.

im excited to see what type of player he ultimately develops into. hes clearly our best young prospect.

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07-02-2013, 12:06 PM
  #244
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
kreider has not found his identity yet. in some ways his wheels are a detriment to his settling into a role he can be comfortable in. hes a horse with wheels.

i see no reason to ever have kreider standing still. his best attributes continue to be size and speed. when hes got a head of steam, hes difficult to contain wide. his crossover power stride is flawless.

maybe hes an eric lindros type player who uses his size to punish people and creates with his skating or perhaps a cam neely clone who was more a prototypical power/scoring forward.

im excited to see what type of player he ultimately develops into. hes clearly our best young prospect.
See, we somewhat agree here. Kreider standing still is ****ing retarded. Like actually ****ing retarded. It bothered me so damn much watching the 2011 WJCs and seeing Kreider just parked in front of the net.

I actually would prefer to see him as a fast, big sniper who occasionally throws a hit. A guy who can cycle when he needs to. I really don't see his game being powerforward-esque and I don't really think he is geared towards that. Some coaches have tried to make him into that type of player, but all it has done is confused his game.

This same garbage happened at times at BC. Coaches see a big kid and instantly want to park him in front of the net when he should be wheeling and dealing. In the 2012 playoffs Torts let him skate free and it worked out very well. I think they really tried to BC him down in Hartford and went back to the **** that didn't work well. When he was free'd up and allowed to wheel and deal he looked great.

I really hope that AV allows the kid to play the way he played successfully in the past. Free wheeling and shooting. Throw the occasional hit but don't go out of your way to play a powerforward game that you aren't comfortable with.

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07-02-2013, 12:23 PM
  #245
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
See, we somewhat agree here. Kreider standing still is ****ing retarded. Like actually ****ing retarded. It bothered me so damn much watching the 2011 WJCs and seeing Kreider just parked in front of the net.

I actually would prefer to see him as a fast, big sniper who occasionally throws a hit. A guy who can cycle when he needs to. I really don't see his game being powerforward-esque and I don't really think he is geared towards that. Some coaches have tried to make him into that type of player, but all it has done is confused his game.

This same garbage happened at times at BC. Coaches see a big kid and instantly want to park him in front of the net when he should be wheeling and dealing. In the 2012 playoffs Torts let him skate free and it worked out very well. I think they really tried to BC him down in Hartford and went back to the **** that didn't work well. When he was free'd up and allowed to wheel and deal he looked great.

I really hope that AV allows the kid to play the way he played successfully in the past. Free wheeling and shooting. Throw the occasional hit but don't go out of your way to play a powerforward game that you aren't comfortable with.
I'm with you, Jonathan. You look at guys who made a living as power forwards... Bertuzzi, Graves, Shanahan, Tkachuk, Iginla.... their skating ability ranged from below average to average. You want Kreider to have a willingness to crash the net at times and dig for loose pucks, but in general it's a ****ing waste of skating ability to plant him in front of the net.

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07-02-2013, 12:37 PM
  #246
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I'm with you, Jonathan. You look at guys who made a living as power forwards... Bertuzzi, Graves, Shanahan, Tkachuk, Iginla.... their skating ability ranged from below average to average. You want Kreider to have a willingness to crash the net at times and dig for loose pucks, but in general it's a ****ing waste of skating ability to plant him in front of the net.
Power forwards come in lots of different types. Ovechkin is a power forward, but he is not a net front player. A sniper in a power forward body with a willingness to hit and compete for pucks.

Really the definition should just be a forward who has the size and strength that he usually can out muscle a defender. And kreider certainly has that ability, though he is not consistent yet

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07-02-2013, 12:38 PM
  #247
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Silly me, I thought this thread was about Buchnevich.

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07-02-2013, 12:52 PM
  #248
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Silly me, I thought this thread was about Buchnevich.
Six degrees of Buchnevich ?

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07-07-2013, 01:28 AM
  #249
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On the main prospects board they have the "re do the draft" thread. This guys name comes up fairly often as some one that other posters wanted as their teams pick. Interesting.

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07-07-2013, 05:01 AM
  #250
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Any information about Buchnevich in this thread?

Has anyone seen this game actually play before?

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