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Keith Ballard bought out

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07-02-2013, 01:12 PM
  #226
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Ballard is a $1 million 6th defender at best. Anyone giving him more than that is out to lunch.





Aaron Rome played ahead of Keith Ballard because Aaron Rome is a better player than Keith Ballard. If anything, Rome should have played more and Ballard less, but - contrary to popular belief - the coaching staff actually tried pretty damn hard to give this awful player a big chance to stay in the lineup. Instead he was an undersized non-entity who was rubbish at both ends of the ice. Rome can actually play defense and actually contributed more offensively than Ballard as well.

The Ballard apologists still boggle my mind. This guy was basically Marc Chouinard here. He stunk. He was given long stretches of playing time every year where he was in the lineup every day, and he stunk. It wasn't the coach. It was Ballard.

I honestly have no idea what people expected the coaching staff to do. At the start of all 3 of his seasons here, he was given a regular shift on the blueline, every night, for the first half of the season. He was rolled over every three shifts, same as everyone else. If he would have played well and/or built confidence, he would have played more and been given more special teams icetime. Instead he was colossally ineffective, and one of the worst offensive defenders in the NHL - basically a black hole of suck. If this guy is killing your team when he's on the ice, why on earth do you play him more? How on earth does this make sense to people?

Some guys lose the plot at a young age. Same deal with Mike Komisarek and Colby Armstrong. It isn't the coach with them, either.

Anyhow, it's a relief to hear we're going to buy him out. Restores a small degree of faith in ownership.
I won't be at all surprised if gillis keeps him and trades a more tradeable player. Mistake after mistake lately for gillis. You really have to wonder how long he has left. I can foresee this team totally falling apart next year and gillis being fired.

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07-02-2013, 01:14 PM
  #227
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Cleared per McKenzie.
dun dun duunnnh, time to buy him out Aqua. Will you?

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07-02-2013, 01:18 PM
  #228
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Of course he did. Bye bye Keef.


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07-02-2013, 01:35 PM
  #229
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I won't be at all surprised if gillis keeps him and trades a more tradeable player. Mistake after mistake lately for gillis. You really have to wonder how long he has left. I can foresee this team totally falling apart next year and gillis being fired.
I think you are overreacting. Gillis said that if Ballard clears he will be bought out. He would be stupid to lie like that.

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07-02-2013, 01:36 PM
  #230
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Buyout all but guaranteed. Could go back home to MIN for maybe $1M.

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07-02-2013, 01:43 PM
  #231
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I think you are overreacting. Gillis said that if Ballard clears he will be bought out. He would be stupid to lie like that.
No. He never misleads anyone. Just ask Roberto luongo.

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07-02-2013, 01:45 PM
  #232
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No. He never misleads anyone. Just ask Roberto luongo.
I'll believe it when it happens.

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07-02-2013, 01:45 PM
  #233
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Gillis again demonstrates that he doesn't know what the hell he is doing. The salary cap just went down this season. Teams all over the league are in cap trouble. If Gillis had actually looked ahead at the calendar and placed this guy on waivers a year ago or earlier, someone would likely have picked him up. Who knows. A team may have actually given up something for Ballard in a trade when teams had cap space. Everyone knew that cap problems were coming with Ballard and Luongo this season but Gillis stubbornly held onto his cards until his options ran out. Gillis should be fired immediately.

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07-02-2013, 01:55 PM
  #234
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Gillis once agin demonstrates he knows exactly what he is doing.

By exploring every option, checking out the trade market at the draft, and then trying conventional waivers, before buying Ballard out with the compliance option.

And the reason he did not pace Ballard on waivers before was because, as most astute hockey fans know, you keep as many healthy D men on your roster heading into the playoffs.

So we buy Ballard out and we are under the cap.

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07-02-2013, 02:00 PM
  #235
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Gillis again demonstrates that he doesn't know what the hell he is doing. The salary cap just went down this season. Teams all over the league are in cap trouble. If Gillis had actually looked ahead at the calendar and placed this guy on waivers a year ago or earlier, someone would likely have picked him up. Who knows. A team may have actually given up something for Ballard in a trade when teams had cap space. Everyone knew that cap problems were coming with Ballard and Luongo this season but Gillis stubbornly held onto his cards until his options ran out. Gillis should be fired immediately.

What's better: having a 5-6 Dman in-house, for a contending team, or having cap space?

Gillis deserves a lot of criticism right now, but for this, I don't think so. If you want to talk about dealing Ballard immediately after he got healthy, sure. But then I don't think he ever excelled here, so why would teams covet him?

It's really no different than what's happening with Gilbert in MIN. Actually, I think a swap of the two players might be good for both teams.

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07-02-2013, 02:19 PM
  #236
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Originally Posted by silvercanuck View Post
Gillis again demonstrates that he doesn't know what the hell he is doing. The salary cap just went down this season. Teams all over the league are in cap trouble. If Gillis had actually looked ahead at the calendar and placed this guy on waivers a year ago or earlier, someone would likely have picked him up. Who knows. A team may have actually given up something for Ballard in a trade when teams had cap space. Everyone knew that cap problems were coming with Ballard and Luongo this season but Gillis stubbornly held onto his cards until his options ran out. Gillis should be fired immediately.
Considering he was worse last year, I sincerely doubt anyone would have ever given up anything. Ballard had no value thanks to AV's terrible misuse of his talent. This buyout is nonconsequential and only affects ownership's pockets. How does one pin the blame on Gillis for essentially having insurance for the playoffs? Frankly, based on performance, Ballard probably would have been a better alternative than Bieksa against the Sharks.

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07-02-2013, 02:20 PM
  #237
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So we buy Ballard out and we are under the cap.
With a worse lineup, in a tougher division, than last year.

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07-02-2013, 02:22 PM
  #238
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What's better: having a 5-6 Dman in-house, for a contending team, or having cap space?

Gillis deserves a lot of criticism right now, but for this, I don't think so. If you want to talk about dealing Ballard immediately after he got healthy, sure. But then I don't think he ever excelled here, so why would teams covet him?

It's really no different than what's happening with Gilbert in MIN. Actually, I think a swap of the two players might be good for both teams.
The issue with Ballard is that he wasn't dealt in 2011. At the time, it was obvious that he was not a good player and not a good fit, and was a major liability moving forward.

In 2011, he probably still had a little bit of trade value - he didn't go from being worth a 1st and top prospect to nothing in a year. It would have looked bad sending him out for a 3rd-rounder a year after we dealt so much for him, but these are the situations where you have to be decisive and not throw good money after bad. Instead we dithered over it and proceeded to lose Ehrhoff and Salo while Ballard kept chewing up his $4.3 million in cap space.

It's interesting because Gillis was such a take-charge, decisive manager in his first 3 years here ... but in his last 2 it's been the exact opposite. I don't know if success made him more cautious, or if it's harder to move players you've acquired in the first place, but his ultra-conservativeness has really hurt the franchise. He needs to do better, and based on his first 3 years, he should be capable of it.

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07-02-2013, 02:24 PM
  #239
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Considering he was worse last year, I sincerely doubt anyone would have ever given up anything. Ballard had no value thanks to AV's terrible misuse of his talent. This buyout is nonconsequential and only affects ownership's pockets. How does one pin the blame on Gillis for essentially having insurance for the playoffs? Frankly, based on performance, Ballard probably would have been a better alternative than Bieksa against the Sharks.
I would have been a more safe choice playing instead of Bieksa and I'm a 5'4" girl.

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07-02-2013, 02:24 PM
  #240
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It's interesting because Gillis was such a take-charge, decisive manager in his first 3 years here ... but in his last 2 it's been the exact opposite. I don't know if success made him more cautious, or if it's harder to move players you've acquired in the first place, but his ultra-conservativeness has really hurt the franchise. He needs to do better, and based on his first 3 years, he should be capable of it.
I remember there being a story about how Gillis spoke with Ballard and promised he wouldn't trade him that off-season. It seemed really out of character (almost Nonis-like, really).

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07-02-2013, 02:40 PM
  #241
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Considering he was worse last year, I sincerely doubt anyone would have ever given up anything. Ballard had no value thanks to AV's terrible misuse of his talent.
Ballard had no value because of Ballard.

Again, he was played a regular shift for the first half of all 3 seasons he played here. He was terrible. There was absolutely zero reason to play him more (especially on a deep, winning team) when he did nothing to deserve it.

This 'Ballard is great but Vigneault ruined him by not playing him' thing is the biggest pile of BS I've ever come across in my lifetime following this team.

Refusing to give horrible players PP time is not 'misuse'. Did Vigneault 'misuse' Marc Chouinard by not giving him 2nd line minutes and PP time to see if he could somehow magically be a good player under those circumstances?

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07-02-2013, 02:41 PM
  #242
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Gillis again demonstrates that he doesn't know what the hell he is doing. The salary cap just went down this season. Teams all over the league are in cap trouble. If Gillis had actually looked ahead at the calendar and placed this guy on waivers a year ago or earlier, someone would likely have picked him up. Who knows. A team may have actually given up something for Ballard in a trade when teams had cap space. Everyone knew that cap problems were coming with Ballard and Luongo this season but Gillis stubbornly held onto his cards until his options ran out. Gillis should be fired immediately.
Unless we have evidence otherwise, how do we know Gillis didn't try to shop Ballard previously and there weren't any offers then either?

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What's better: having a 5-6 Dman in-house, for a contending team, or having cap space?

Gillis deserves a lot of criticism right now, but for this, I don't think so. If you want to talk about dealing Ballard immediately after he got healthy, sure. But then I don't think he ever excelled here, so why would teams covet him?

It's really no different than what's happening with Gilbert in MIN. Actually, I think a swap of the two players might be good for both teams.
And this as well.

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07-02-2013, 02:47 PM
  #243
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Originally Posted by silvercanuck View Post
Gillis again demonstrates that he doesn't know what the hell he is doing. The salary cap just went down this season. Teams all over the league are in cap trouble. If Gillis had actually looked ahead at the calendar and placed this guy on waivers a year ago or earlier, someone would likely have picked him up. Who knows. A team may have actually given up something for Ballard in a trade when teams had cap space. Everyone knew that cap problems were coming with Ballard and Luongo this season but Gillis stubbornly held onto his cards until his options ran out. Gillis should be fired immediately.
What would you have said if we waived him during the season and he got picked up. Then we had a good cup run and had a couple D-Men go down? Let me guess "Gillis has no clue what hes doing and should be fired!"

Seems like to some he is hooped either way, doesn't matter what he does.

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07-02-2013, 02:52 PM
  #244
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What would you have said if we waived him during the season and he got picked up. Then we had a good cup run and had a couple D-Men go down?
Pesumably, the $4M in cap space that move frees up would have been used to get a replacement defenseman.

If not, then absolutely he would deserve criticism.

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07-02-2013, 02:52 PM
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When Ballard was brought in the team was in a more precarious position for defense with Mitchell having gone down with a serious concussion. I can't blame him for not being comfortable signing WM to a mutli-year extension and we needed a D-Man to replace him.

If he had his crystal ball he would have know that we would signing at a cost of no assets both Hamhuis and Garrison and Tanev, but unfortunately our owners are too cheap to buy a crystal ball...

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07-02-2013, 02:52 PM
  #246
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The issue with Ballard is that he wasn't dealt in 2011. At the time, it was obvious that he was not a good player and not a good fit, and was a major liability moving forward.

In 2011, he probably still had a little bit of trade value - he didn't go from being worth a 1st and top prospect to nothing in a year. It would have looked bad sending him out for a 3rd-rounder a year after we dealt so much for him, but these are the situations where you have to be decisive and not throw good money after bad. Instead we dithered over it and proceeded to lose Ehrhoff and Salo while Ballard kept chewing up his $4.3 million in cap space.

It's interesting because Gillis was such a take-charge, decisive manager in his first 3 years here ... but in his last 2 it's been the exact opposite. I don't know if success made him more cautious, or if it's harder to move players you've acquired in the first place, but his ultra-conservativeness has really hurt the franchise. He needs to do better, and based on his first 3 years, he should be capable of it.

I don't think Ehrhoff and Salo had anything to do with Ballard, but I understand the larger point. The issue is that Gillis invested so much in Ballard. We see time and again, that can lead GMs astray as far as loyalty goes.

Has Gillis been more conservative? I don't know. If a player he has acquired has next to no value, is it easier to retain said player and hope he rebounds, or waive him mid-season. I think Gillis has always been largely conservative. It's a lot harder to justify when the team loses though...which is what I think is changing perceptions now.

This is all on pro-scouting IMO. Whoever it was that recommended that Ballard was a good fit for this system, that person should be fired. AV's unchanging system only exacerbated matters, but he can't re-invent everything for one player. The pro scouting wears this all the way.

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07-02-2013, 02:54 PM
  #247
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After what happened at the draft, I'm a little worried that Edler gets traded since Ballard didn't get claimed.

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07-02-2013, 02:56 PM
  #248
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When Ballard was brought in the team was in a more precarious position for defense with Mitchell having gone down with a serious concussion. I can't blame him for not being comfortable signing WM to a mutli-year extension and we needed a D-Man to replace him.

If he had his crystal ball he would have know that we would signing at a cost of no assets both Hamhuis and Garrison and Tanev, but unfortunately our owners are too cheap to buy a crystal ball...

I think this also highlights that Gillis isn't very good at making trades under duress. He should take note of this and adjust accordingly. If he's more pro-active, as MS mentions, then he can avoid placing himself in such situations and can stem the tide before it rises.

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07-02-2013, 02:58 PM
  #249
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Pesumably, the $4M in cap space that move frees up would have been used to get a replacement defenseman.

If not, then absolutely he would deserve criticism.
Get a replacement defenceman at the deadline for more assets and then when we don't win the cup we curse that move as well. How much sense does it make to trade a defenceman at the deadline to bring in a defenceman? Especially when a d better than Ballard at the deadline isn't cheap, nor needed assuming our D stays healthy.

As long as they stay true to their word and buy him out tomorrow I have no problems with the Ballard situation (other than the fact that our old coach never game him an opportunity)

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07-02-2013, 02:58 PM
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I don't think Ehrhoff and Salo had anything to do with Ballard, but I understand the larger point. The issue is that Gillis invested so much in Ballard. We see time and again, that can lead GMs astray as far as loyalty goes.

Has Gillis been more conservative? I don't know. If a player he has acquired has next to no value, is it easier to retain said player and hope he rebounds, or waive him mid-season. I think Gillis has always been largely conservative. It's a lot harder to justify when the team loses though...which is what I think is changing perceptions now.

This is all on pro-scouting IMO. Whoever it was that recommended that Ballard was a good fit for this system, that person should be fired. AV's unchanging system only exacerbated matters, but he can't re-invent everything for one player. The pro scouting wears this all the way.
I'm guessing Bowness had at least some say in this (not to deflect Gillis' responsibility here).

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