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Round 1, Pick #11: Samuel Morin, Defense, Rimouski (QMJHL)

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Old
07-02-2013, 03:03 PM
  #476
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Originally Posted by DecadesofFutility View Post
Not with the logjam of defense only defenders we draft --its not. Morin is overrated, he has little to no offensive ability. Sorry you should be able to get those type of players in the second round if you can draft decently.
That's a little off to be honest. While he didn't put up big numbers in Rimouski, if you watch the video on Morin (which I've been watching a lot of since the Flyers drafted him), you can see three things that most offensive/two-way defensemen have - a great outlet pass to transition to offense, a rocket of a point shot and hockey IQ. Bigger defensemen don't always put up great numbers in their draft year. Marc Staal is one of the best defensemen in the game and he only put up 26 points his draft year. Ryan McDonagh only put up 12 points in the NCAA the year after he was drafted. Shea Weber only put up 18 points in his draft year. Zdeno Chara only put up 22 points the year after he was drafted. Jared Cowen only put up 21 points his draft year. Tyler Myers put up 19 points his draft year. Victor Hedman only put up 21 points his draft year. You can go through the list of defensemen and see that Morin compares favorably with a lot of guys who he is compared to and you know why? It's because Morin has something that all these players have - the hockey IQ to be in the right place at the right time and he's got the offensive skills as well. They haven't been refined, but they're there. He's got a great outlet pass just like all these guys and he's got a rocket of a shot. He's going to get lots of playing time this upcoming year and he's going to be used in all situations. The offensive skill will come together.

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Originally Posted by DecadesofFutility View Post
First round picks should be cornerstones, core players. A guy with little chance of developing an offensive game can not become a #1 defenseman.
Once again, you need to watch video on Morin. He's got offensive skills. Also, having the smarts and the knowledge to play the game goes a long way in developing the offensive side. Chara was a gangly player like Morin is at the same age. He needed to grow into his frame and once he did, everything came together. While I'm not the biggest Morin fan (simply because of the time it will take for him to reach his potential in the NHL), I can certainly see and appreciate that he has the skills and smarts you can't teach. This is a kid who is 17. He's going to need additional time to grow and fill out his frame. Right now, you're looking at a 6-7, 200 pound kid who is probably going to grow maybe another inch or two and probably put on 40 to 45 pounds. Once he's comfortable in his frame, you'll see everything come together and once it does, he's going to be a monster.

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Originally Posted by DecadesofFutility View Post
They saw him and saw Pronger or Weber, all is see is Coburn. I hope I am wrong since we drafted him. I hope he becomes the best defenseman in the league. I just have serious doubts that this pick will pan out at all.
OK, a couple of things yet again. First, the Flyers rarely and I mean rarely miss on first round picks. They've got one of the better scouting departments in place and they know what they're doing in the first round. Second, this is a guy who has shown much more hockey IQ than Coburn has. If there was one thing about Coburn that came out during his draft year, it was his hockey making decisions. You don't read about that with Morin. He's got the mental game down. If Morin doesn't develop an offensive game, at the very least, you're looking at a potential shut down/defensive guy in the mold of Derian Hatcher. He played 16 seasons and was one of the best in the game.

I get that you don't like Morin, fine. But don't dismiss the kid before he's had a chance to develop.

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07-02-2013, 03:04 PM
  #477
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Originally Posted by DecadesofFutility View Post
We had a chance to pick a possible franchise player because we missed the playoffs.
So instead of that we decide to reach on a project defenseman. A missed opportunity.
What possible "franchise" player did we miss out on?

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07-02-2013, 03:04 PM
  #478
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Originally Posted by DecadesofFutility View Post
We had a chance to pick a possible franchise player because we missed the playoffs.
So instead of that we decide to reach on a project defenseman. A missed opportunity.
So. clueless.

What do you mean we had the chance to pick a potential franchise player? There are only four players in this draft who project to be anything worthy of building a franchise around. The rest are all projects in one way or another.

So what did you expect? Were your expectations really to get Jones? Once again, it's ridiculous expectations that are behind your thoughts, not organizational failure.

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07-02-2013, 03:07 PM
  #479
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Exactly. The kid could be anything from Keaton Ellerby to a Myers/beast Coburn hybrid. We just have no idea. We've seen players like this bust, we've seen them develop offensive games seemingly out of no where, we've seen them make a living as a SDD, and we've seen them become elite defenders. There is just such an incredibly wide range of possibilities with him, it's just mind boggling to see people declaring him one way or another at this point.

I mean, isn't the complaint always that the Flyers never take their time with defenders? Well, now they specifically picked a player who clearly needs time. Let's at least give him a couple years...it hasn't even been a couple days...
Let's look at some recent Flyers defensive cornerstones.

Eric Desjardins: Late 2nd round pick.
Kimmo Timonen: 10th round pick. ****ing 10th!

You never know what he could become until he starts developing. It's way too early to blast this pick. And besides...who in the living hell should the Flyers have picked BESIDES Morin and Hagg? I have no idea what Decades wants, but it sure as hell seems to live in the land of unicorns and fairy dust.

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07-02-2013, 03:08 PM
  #480
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
That's a little off to be honest. While he didn't put up big numbers in Rimouski, if you watch the video on Morin (which I've been watching a lot of since the Flyers drafted him), you can see three things that most offensive/two-way defensemen have - a great outlet pass to transition to offense, a rocket of a point shot and hockey IQ. Bigger defensemen don't always put up great numbers in their draft year. Marc Staal is one of the best defensemen in the game and he only put up 26 points his draft year. Ryan McDonagh only put up 12 points in the NCAA the year after he was drafted. Shea Weber only put up 18 points in his draft year. Zdeno Chara only put up 22 points the year after he was drafted. Jared Cowen only put up 21 points his draft year. Tyler Myers put up 19 points his draft year. Victor Hedman only put up 21 points his draft year. You can go through the list of defensemen and see that Morin compares favorably with a lot of guys who he is compared to and you know why? It's because Morin has something that all these players have - the hockey IQ to be in the right place at the right time and he's got the offensive skills as well. They haven't been refined, but they're there. He's got a great outlet pass just like all these guys and he's got a rocket of a shot. He's going to get lots of playing time this upcoming year and he's going to be used in all situations. The offensive skill will come together.



Once again, you need to watch video on Morin. He's got offensive skills. Also, having the smarts and the knowledge to play the game goes a long way in developing the offensive side. Chara was a gangly player like Morin is at the same age. He needed to grow into his frame and once he did, everything came together. While I'm not the biggest Morin fan (simply because of the time it will take for him to reach his potential in the NHL), I can certainly see and appreciate that he has the skills and smarts you can't teach. This is a kid who is 17. He's going to need additional time to grow and fill out his frame. Right now, you're looking at a 6-7, 200 pound kid who is probably going to grow maybe another inch or two and probably put on 40 to 45 pounds. Once he's comfortable in his frame, you'll see everything come together and once it does, he's going to be a monster.



OK, a couple of things yet again. First, the Flyers rarely and I mean rarely miss on first round picks. They've got one of the better scouting departments in place and they know what they're doing in the first round. Second, this is a guy who has shown much more hockey IQ than Coburn has. If there was one thing about Coburn that came out during his draft year, it was his hockey making decisions. You don't read about that with Morin. He's got the mental game down. If Morin doesn't develop an offensive game, at the very least, you're looking at a potential shut down/defensive guy in the mold of Derian Hatcher. He played 16 seasons and was one of the best in the game.

I get that you don't like Morin, fine. But don't dismiss the kid before he's had a chance to develop.


I honestly think we should lock this thread after this post. Nothing more needs to be said. Excellent post.

Let's shut this down and revisit in another year or two. BCF16 wins the thread.

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07-02-2013, 03:12 PM
  #481
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From a rds.ca article this morning (translated from French)...

titled "A Perfect Match!" (article about Morin and the Flyers)

http://www.rds.ca/hockey/lnh/un-match-parfait-1.637427

Some qoutes.

"We talk with several teams and we hear several comments. I was convinced he was going to leave between the 10th and 17 th position, "said Brisson, who represents a variety of the best hopes."

Having seen play about 25 games, the Flyers leaders are well placed to tell whether the comparison with the illustrious Pronger.

"I see some similarities as its high competitive sense and his aggressive side. His puck skills were somewhat limited at first, but he has progressed so much in this area is expected that it continues, "described one of their scouts."



It really seems like Morin just got exponentially better as the season progressed. His trajectory right now is sky high, so it should be really fun to keep up with him next season.

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07-02-2013, 03:15 PM
  #482
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It really seems like Morin just got exponentially better as the season progressed. His trajectory right now is sky high, so it should be really fun to keep up with him next season.
One thing that's almost always evident of a breakout season seems to be a dominating performance and higher output production the postseason the year before.

An uptrend in offensive performance through the year leading up to a breakout in the playoffs is almost always a good sign.

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07-02-2013, 03:16 PM
  #483
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http://en.olympiquesdegatineau.ca/vi...52200cb21d256b

Morin scores at 1:30. What a howitzer

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07-02-2013, 03:20 PM
  #484
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I honestly think we should lock this thread after this post. Nothing more needs to be said. Excellent post.

Let's shut this down and revisit in another year or two. BCF16 wins the thread.
It's almost like you can't make real determinations about what a dman will be when he's drafted until you see what they become. It's almost like Dmen take longer to develop than forwards.

By "almost," I mean "definitely is"

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07-02-2013, 03:22 PM
  #485
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I'll keep saying it, I think this upcoming year will show us a decent bit more about his potential offensive ability. It seems like he got better as the year went on, and he is one of the younger kids in the draft. He'll be around the same age next year that Jones was this year. Darnell Nurse went from 13 to 40+ points in one year, I believe he is 6 months older than Morin. The 2nd half of the season could have been Morin starting to put together his offensive skills, and next year we will hopefully see some increased production.

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07-02-2013, 03:27 PM
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I'll keep saying it, I think this upcoming year will show us a decent bit more about his potential offensive ability. It seems like he got better as the year went on, and he is one of the younger kids in the draft. He'll be around the same age next year that Jones was this year. Darnell Nurse went from 13 to 40+ points in one year, I believe he is 6 months older than Morin. The 2nd half of the season could have been Morin starting to put together his offensive skills, and next year we will hopefully see some increased production.
Almost all of the defensemen that have been of Morin's ilk (high in the draft and bigger in size) since the 2008 draft (and likely beyond) have all broken out around 17 and a half...

Which is when Morin's uptrend started...

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07-02-2013, 11:00 PM
  #487
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They should have traded back.
JETS were lobbying hard to move ahead of Phoenix as it's believed they would have chosen Domi. Definitely would have given Philly something tangible to move down to #13. No way Phoenix would have drafted yet another defenseman at #12.

After the initial anger wilted away from missing out on Domi, I am happy with the Morrissey pick. Most on our boards just felt like the organization was in dire need of another impact forward as opposed to a defenseman.

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07-02-2013, 11:09 PM
  #488
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JETS were lobbying hard to move ahead of Phoenix as it's believed they would have chosen Domi. Definitely would have given Philly something tangible to move down to #13. No way Phoenix would have drafted yet another defenseman at #12.

After the initial anger wilted away from missing out on Domi, I am happy with the Morrissey pick. Most on our boards just felt like the organization was in dire need of another impact forward as opposed to a defenseman.
Morin's agent said he felt like Morin could have went anywhere from 10-17. Montreal tried trading up twice to select Morin once with Vancoucer for the 9th pick and the second time with us for the 11th pick. Homer and our scouts said they had Morin and two other forwards who were still available in mind for the 11th pick. My guess is they felt like there was a risk if they traded back that Morin wouldn't be there so they just selected him with the 11th pick.

Is Morin a reach at at #11? Sure a litte bit but IMO it's not as crazy of a reach.

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07-02-2013, 11:21 PM
  #489
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Originally Posted by Protest View Post
I'll keep saying it, I think this upcoming year will show us a decent bit more about his potential offensive ability. It seems like he got better as the year went on, and he is one of the younger kids in the draft. He'll be around the same age next year that Jones was this year. Darnell Nurse went from 13 to 40+ points in one year, I believe he is 6 months older than Morin. The 2nd half of the season could have been Morin starting to put together his offensive skills, and next year we will hopefully see some increased production.
I agree. A lot of people who have scouted him on the internet have compared him poorly to players who have not developed into nhl players. This is understandable.
There are very few players who are as big as him and are able to compare.

It seems that the bigger players are a year behind in their development on offense. If you look at Oleksiak and Myers they really produced at high rate after their draft year. Morin has been touted as strictly a Defensive dman, and while he may be that the future is uncertain and by comparison he has shown more upside than Zadorov and his playoffs were a breath of fresh air considering he had missed significant time with an injury and came back in time to produce at a higher than a ppg rate.

I say right now lets try to compare his production to a guy myers ( a player he outperformed in his draft year) and see how he develops. If he can put up anything over a .70 ppg clip next year I think we may have a potential number 1. That is the benchmark he should be aiming for.

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07-02-2013, 11:38 PM
  #490
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Let's look at some recent Flyers defensive cornerstones.

Eric Desjardins: Late 2nd round pick.
Kimmo Timonen: 10th round pick. ****ing 10th!

You never know what he could become until he starts developing. It's way too early to blast this pick. And besides...who in the living hell should the Flyers have picked BESIDES Morin and Hagg? I have no idea what Decades wants, but it sure as hell seems to live in the land of unicorns and fairy dust.
It's all about will. Timonen was pissed about being called to small by the King's organization. Rico, I don't know his story, but there was something there driving him. Skill doesn't mean ****. So, let's hope a smart 6'6" smooth skating defenseman can recognize his gifts, and realize his potential.

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07-02-2013, 11:45 PM
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Morin's agent said he felt like Morin could have went anywhere from 10-17. Montreal tried trading up twice to select Morin once with Vancoucer for the 9th pick and the second time with us for the 11th pick. Homer and our scouts said they had Morin and two other forwards who were still available in mind for the 11th pick. My guess is they felt like there was a risk if they traded back that Morin wouldn't be there so they just selected him with the 11th pick.

Is Morin a reach at at #11? Sure a litte bit but IMO it's not as crazy of a reach.

it is one thing to select a project in the first round instead of choosing a d man who is closer to his potential , but its another thing to reach for a project ala Vernon Gholston.

The flyers did not reach by any stretch of the imagination and montreal posed a real threat to obtain morin.

Flyers have now beaten out Montreal to Briere, Morin, and now Vinny.

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07-03-2013, 12:18 AM
  #492
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it is one thing to select a project in the first round instead of choosing a d man who is closer to his potential , but its another thing to reach for a project ala Vernon Gholston.

The flyers did not reach by any stretch of the imagination and montreal posed a real threat to obtain morin.

Flyers have now beaten out Montreal to Briere, Morin, and now Vinny.
And the Flyers beat Montreal to the punch, taking Tyrell Goulbourne before the Habs could take him with their later 3rd round pick....

Think about it: Hallowe'en 2015, Flyers home game. Ghost and Ghoul in the starting lineup....

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07-03-2013, 12:25 AM
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And the Flyers beat Montreal to the punch, taking Tyrell Goulbourne before the Habs could take him with their later 3rd round pick....

Think about it: Hallowe'en 2015, Flyers home game. Ghost and Ghoul in the starting lineup....
Halloween 2015 Promotion:

Ghoul masks (Goulbourne), orange Ghost sheets (Gostisbehere), and clown wigs (Hartnell).

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07-03-2013, 12:39 AM
  #494
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Halloween 2015 Promotion:

Ghoul masks (Goulbourne), orange Ghost sheets (Gostisbehere), and clown wigs (Hartnell).
special guest appearance from les habs as the smurfs and carey price as smurfette.

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07-03-2013, 02:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Let's look at some recent Flyers defensive cornerstones.

Eric Desjardins: Late 2nd round pick.
Kimmo Timonen: 10th round pick. ****ing 10th!

You never know what he could become until he starts developing. It's way too early to blast this pick. And besides...who in the living hell should the Flyers have picked BESIDES Morin and Hagg? I have no idea what Decades wants, but it sure as hell seems to live in the land of unicorns and fairy dust.
I'd like directions to this land you speak of. I don't have to take 76 do I?

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07-03-2013, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
That's a little off to be honest. While he didn't put up big numbers in Rimouski, if you watch the video on Morin (which I've been watching a lot of since the Flyers drafted him), you can see three things that most offensive/two-way defensemen have - a great outlet pass to transition to offense, a rocket of a point shot and hockey IQ. Bigger defensemen don't always put up great numbers in their draft year. Marc Staal is one of the best defensemen in the game and he only put up 26 points his draft year. Ryan McDonagh only put up 12 points in the NCAA the year after he was drafted. Shea Weber only put up 18 points in his draft year. Zdeno Chara only put up 22 points the year after he was drafted. Jared Cowen only put up 21 points his draft year. Tyler Myers put up 19 points his draft year. Victor Hedman only put up 21 points his draft year. You can go through the list of defensemen and see that Morin compares favorably with a lot of guys who he is compared to and you know why? It's because Morin has something that all these players have - the hockey IQ to be in the right place at the right time and he's got the offensive skills as well. They haven't been refined, but they're there. He's got a great outlet pass just like all these guys and he's got a rocket of a shot. He's going to get lots of playing time this upcoming year and he's going to be used in all situations. The offensive skill will come together.



Once again, you need to watch video on Morin. He's got offensive skills. Also, having the smarts and the knowledge to play the game goes a long way in developing the offensive side. Chara was a gangly player like Morin is at the same age. He needed to grow into his frame and once he did, everything came together. While I'm not the biggest Morin fan (simply because of the time it will take for him to reach his potential in the NHL), I can certainly see and appreciate that he has the skills and smarts you can't teach. This is a kid who is 17. He's going to need additional time to grow and fill out his frame. Right now, you're looking at a 6-7, 200 pound kid who is probably going to grow maybe another inch or two and probably put on 40 to 45 pounds. Once he's comfortable in his frame, you'll see everything come together and once it does, he's going to be a monster.



OK, a couple of things yet again. First, the Flyers rarely and I mean rarely miss on first round picks. They've got one of the better scouting departments in place and they know what they're doing in the first round. Second, this is a guy who has shown much more hockey IQ than Coburn has. If there was one thing about Coburn that came out during his draft year, it was his hockey making decisions. You don't read about that with Morin. He's got the mental game down. If Morin doesn't develop an offensive game, at the very least, you're looking at a potential shut down/defensive guy in the mold of Derian Hatcher. He played 16 seasons and was one of the best in the game.

I get that you don't like Morin, fine. But don't dismiss the kid before he's had a chance to develop.
Really a well put together post. One of the things I like about this kid is his desire to make a impact every game. He has a great heart along with a very high ceiling for improvement. This kid does not need to fight to get respect. Once his untapped abilities come to the forefront he is going to be a pisser to play against.

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07-03-2013, 12:15 PM
  #497
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Thanks for that! Makes sense, fellow Swede the same age, from the same city and a good friend dying would make you want to be on the other side of the world, especially if he was having trouble before that. His production dropping from 0.6PPG to less than 0.1 after it happens would indicate it really badly affected him.

Adds even more sadness to a pretty harrowing story to begin with, though he seems to have had a fantastic career in Sweden after, top SEL D man, number retired.

Unerringly similar to what I found about Chernov in my previous post.

EDIT: Just read Eriksson had known Lindbergh since childhood, unimaginable how that must have affected him.


Yes he was really affected by Pelle's death.

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07-03-2013, 12:47 PM
  #498
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And the Flyers beat Montreal to the punch, taking Tyrell Goulbourne before the Habs could take him with their later 3rd round pick....

Think about it: Hallowe'en 2015, Flyers home game. Ghost and Ghoul in the starting lineup....
Don't forget Hägg.


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07-03-2013, 12:54 PM
  #499
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Seriously, can we please wait and see what the guy turns into? Gus is currently developing into a promising possible #4 guy. Ghost has shown more promise than expected, too. MAB was doing well, better than expected (again, like the other two) before he broke his brain. Can we please consider that the org has done pretty well with lower picks for Dmen, and give them SOME benefit of the doubt on their first round pick?

Maybe he's nothing special, sure. But let's at least wait to see what this SEVENTEEN year old guy turns into before declaring the draft a disaster.
I have been a away for a bit but i am not surprised at the some of the reaction on this pick. There was a pretty wide range of opinions on who the Flyers should pick. some acting like "I am going to be pissed if so and so isnt picked". Based on their recent history of 1st round picks I am not going to question it. Could he bust out? sure. But given the recent history of the teams recent history of 1st round picks I am going to say he will be fine.

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07-03-2013, 01:04 PM
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