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Mact's performance thus far.

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Old
07-02-2013, 11:25 AM
  #201
Halibut
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Originally Posted by Tad Mikowsky View Post
It's amazing.

***** if we do something, ***** if we don't do something.
Sure he could have been screwed if he'd made a bad trade but he set the goal line.
MacT said he was impatient and that he was going to make moves to improve this team now. He failed at the draft, that's all we can judge him on, and it's clear that by his own goals he fell short of what he was aiming for. It's a simple accounting of what has happened. This doesnt mean that he cant or wont make changes in the future or that he should be fired based on this failure but it definitely has been a failure.

We'll be judging again when and if moves are made in free agency and in the promised dealing away of Horcoff and Hemsky. Thus far he hasnt been any improvement on Tambellini if that continues then it looks like Kevin Lowe has screwed up in this hiring as well or they could just admit it was all a PR move and Tambo did as good a job as could be expected with the crap Klowe left him.

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07-02-2013, 11:29 AM
  #202
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Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
1) He is the one that said he was impatient and was going to be bold and mused about using picks for live players, not the fans.
2) How is macT any different than our previous gm at all? Tambo said the same thing and did the same thing.

You either succeed in your task or you fail. for being such a 'smart' guy he set himself up for fail by the way he and the org talked just after he was hired.
1) It's been how many weeks since he said that? Fine to say the jury is out on him, silly to say he's bad at his job.
2) See 1)

Short of holding the family of another GM hostage- what do you want him to do? If a team... A) is unwilling to deal a player within the division, B) gave the player a choice in destination and it's not Edmonton, or C) is asking for the moon...what is MacTavish supposed to do? The only answer I see is to overpay...and why would we want that?

Have criticisms but at least be specific. Saying "well, he should do...something, at least" is ridiculous. I'm still making my way through this thread but someone asked a good question around page 3 - 'what would you have traded for these players that were dealt'...I'm curious how many people answered that. I'm going to guess not very many...the M.O. around here is to have all the answers and not provide them. Hope I'm wrong and there's a good discussion going on back there.

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07-02-2013, 11:30 AM
  #203
Tad Mikowsky
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Originally Posted by Halibut View Post
Sure he could have been screwed if he'd made a bad trade but he set the goal line.
MacT said he was impatient and that he was going to make moves to improve this team now. He failed at the draft, that's all we can judge him on, and it's clear that by his own goals he fell short of what he was aiming for. It's a simple accounting of what has happened. This doesnt mean that he cant or wont make changes in the future or that he should be fired based on this failure but it definitely has been a failure.

We'll be judging again when and if moves are made in free agency and in the promised dealing away of Horcoff and Hemsky. Thus far he hasnt been any improvement on Tambellini if that continues then it looks like Kevin Lowe has screwed up in this hiring as well or they could just admit it was all a PR move and Tambo did as good a job as could be expected with the crap Klowe left him.
Thus far, it's been 10 ****ing weeks. Thus far, it's far too early to judge a guy, especially when Free agency hasn't happen.

Yeah you could judge him thus far, but it's such a small, pathetic sample size. I'm merely suggesting to wait a bit more before we scream failure.

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07-02-2013, 11:49 AM
  #204
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Originally Posted by Tad Mikowsky View Post
Thus far, it's been 10 ****ing weeks. Thus far, it's far too early to judge a guy, especially when Free agency hasn't happen.

Yeah you could judge him thus far, but it's such a small, pathetic sample size. I'm merely suggesting to wait a bit more before we scream failure.
It's not to early to judge if we're only considering what he's done so far and draft day is one of the two or three biggest days in a GM's schedule. He failed at the draft it's that simple. He has more opportunities but continuing to fail will be judged harshly. I said it earlier he still could turn it around and make some nice moves to improve this team, in trades or free agency. He'll be judged on those actions as well but it's pretty clear the draft was a failure to immediately improve this team. I like what we did long term but that's not what he set out as the goal.

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07-02-2013, 12:14 PM
  #205
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Under promise and over deliver. If you are going to create expectations by making promises, you had better be able to keep them. Maybe it is a lesson for him. But it is hard to say that he has lived up to the expectations that he created for himself to this point.

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07-02-2013, 12:45 PM
  #206
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I'll start to grade Mac say on Friday July 12th - after a week of UFA fun.

That's when he'll earn his stripes.

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07-02-2013, 12:53 PM
  #207
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Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
These are all your projections and evaluations. The oilers could have picked any single one of the guys I listed. Hagg is a different kind of Dman than nurse and we already have a number of quality dman prospects. Petan too small, remember MacT;s skill mantra?
And these are your speculation... The Oilers could have picked Slepychev at that point for all that we know. MacT wanted big and skilled.. Zykov filled that as much as Petan..
In any case .. Getting 2 3rds and 3 4ths for a Petan or Haag is a WIN.

Thats like 2 Fistrics and 3 Smithsons

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07-02-2013, 01:04 PM
  #208
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The benefit of being glib & good on the mic is that some fans are willing to extend MacT credit that a personality drought like Tambo never got, just based the guy's likability.

The drawback of being glib & good on the mic is that it's easy to say a bunch of stuff that you later aren't able to deliver on.

MacT arrived and was exactly the glib, good on the mic guy we know & love/like/hate, and he talked a big ass game. Unfortunately he bumped his head into the reality of making deals in the current NHL.

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07-02-2013, 01:05 PM
  #209
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Originally Posted by Petro Points View Post
Sure.. ONE of them .. and no not the guy you come back in 3 yrs and say we couldve picked him ..

Zykov is who LA picked and was the BPA by most accounts .. Would have filled a need in EDM.. bigger skiled LWer \ Russian to compliment Yak (alos fits based on who we picked in 3rd round)

Jarry would be Moroz'ish pick

Hagg probably not since we got Nurse with 1st, Petan too small etc etc ..
Jarry would have been a WAAAAAYYYY better pick at 37 than Moroz was at 32.

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07-02-2013, 01:11 PM
  #210
IV XIV XCI
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There weren't that many moves yesterday.
Lot's of GM's wanted to make "bold moves" yesterday but didn't.

Only difference is that our guy went out of his way to say he would.

He has about 5-7 days to still make the splash he claims he will.


But for all the complainers, I ask you this: when was the last draft where there were a lot of big trades? Seems like it's been a while. People assume lots of moves but it usually takes an extra week before it really happens.

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07-02-2013, 01:12 PM
  #211
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Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
To think that everyone and their dog thought that Katz was a savior for this team. We will never be held hostage by an owner again. (wrong) We will spend to the cap every year (wrong) We have a guy that is a business winner and wants to win badly and will do whatever it takes. (wrong).

Katz is a fan boy owner and is at least as bad if not worse than the Wang/Snow combo on the island. Just that fact that Kevin Lowe is still the firmly entrenched genius running this team is really all that needs to be said.
Nailed it.

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07-02-2013, 01:27 PM
  #212
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WAY too early to judge. Get back at me in December or so.

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07-02-2013, 01:46 PM
  #213
Petro Points
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Originally Posted by Brewster View Post
Jarry would have been a WAAAAAYYYY better pick at 37 than Moroz was at 32.
And because our scouts ranked Roy higher than Jarry we are going to claim that MacT sucks? MacT admitted that he knows nothing about Royand is going with the scouts.
It wouldve been a lot easier to pick an Oil king and a goalie prospect but he trusted the scouts.

MacT had a good day at draft and got 2 deals done landing us 4 extra picks. He was actively trying work out another deal with PHI ... A lot different than what we are used to seeing from Tambo who just let the calls come into him.

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07-02-2013, 01:46 PM
  #214
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Originally Posted by IV XIV XCI View Post
There weren't that many moves yesterday.
Lot's of GM's wanted to make "bold moves" yesterday but didn't.

Only difference is that our guy went out of his way to say he would.

He has about 5-7 days to still make the splash he claims he will.


But for all the complainers, I ask you this: when was the last draft where there were a lot of big trades? Seems like it's been a while. People assume lots of moves but it usually takes an extra week before it really happens.
I don't think one can look at the amount of trades that occurred and use it as a rationale for saying "well this really wasn't a trade type of draft".

Its incumbent, of course, on the teams that NEED to improve to be the impetus of trades and not waiting for them to happen and hoping things fly across the plate.

MacT was involved in discussing some trades, sure, he also appeared not to be involved in other potential deals. I wonder how many trade schemes he initiated with other clubs.

As usual, we'll never know all, but I wonder how many stocks and cards were put out on the table and how much was in play trying to drum up some business.

MacT stated (and this is his own fault) that he would be aggressive, impatient, and would be making deals and changing what this club looks like. He stated as a matter of fact that he would add the player ingredients this club requires.

He missed doing that one of the few important off season days of the year. While managing a club that needs a lot of help and that has a lot of players that could be in a trade. Except, wait, MacT devalued some of these players trade value in his prior comments.

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07-02-2013, 02:22 PM
  #215
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
A reporter going on the record saying Buchberger is friends with Katz?

Ya, Im gonna say that is reliable information.

Are you saying Robin is lying or making stuff up?
I don't put much stock in anything Brownlee says, to be honest...and for him to say something like that only reinforces that line of thinking for me.

Bucky is friends with Katz...all right, maybe he is...not earth shattering news. Do we know whether they're 'friend of a friend' type acquaintances, or BFF's? Does Brownlee? Does being a friend of a friend mean that Katz must have saved Bucky's job when MacT, Lowe, and Eakins all wanted him gone? I highly doubt Brownlee knows that for a fact- which makes his comments pretty unprofessional for a "reporter".

Anyway...I was most curious as to who encompassed "by all accounts". If Brownlee is it, I think we can throw that out the window.

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07-02-2013, 02:24 PM
  #216
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
I don't think one can look at the amount of trades that occurred and use it as a rationale for saying "well this really wasn't a trade type of draft".

Its incumbent, of course, on the teams that NEED to improve to be the impetus of trades and not waiting for them to happen and hoping things fly across the plate.

MacT was involved in discussing some trades, sure, he also appeared not to be involved in other potential deals. I wonder how many trade schemes he initiated with other clubs.

As usual, we'll never know all, but I wonder how many stocks and cards were put out on the table and how much was in play trying to drum up some business.

MacT stated (and this is his own fault) that he would be aggressive, impatient, and would be making deals and changing what this club looks like. He stated as a matter of fact that he would add the player ingredients this club requires.

He missed doing that one of the few important off season days of the year. While managing a club that needs a lot of help and that has a lot of players that could be in a trade. Except, wait, MacT devalued some of these players trade value in his prior comments.
MacTavish, by all reports, had the most lines in the water at the draft table of any GM, but none of those deals ultimately made sense for the Oilers. Apparently, MacTavish and Holmgren had a deal in principle in place, but according to reports, Holmgren backed out on it before it was consummated. The deal apparently centred around Colburn with multiple pieces going either way. According to various news stories, both sides are still talking and a deal could still happen.

These are trades involving multimillion dollar assets. I don't want our GM rushing into them, as much as I want things to happen, like everyone else.

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07-02-2013, 02:30 PM
  #217
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MacTavish, by all reports, had the most lines in the water at the draft table of any GM, but none of those deals ultimately made sense for the Oilers. Apparently, MacTavish and Holmgren had a deal in principle in place, but according to reports, Holmgren backed out on it before it was consummated. The deal apparently centred around Colburn with multiple pieces going either way. According to various news stories, both sides are still talking and a deal could still happen.

These are trades involving multimillion dollar assets. I don't want our GM rushing into them, as much as I want things to happen, like everyone else.
There is a lot to this logic.

We always hear GM's use the term "moving parts" and anytime your talking trades under a brand new CBA...its going to take a lot of time/calculating and carefulness.

I cant ballpark the chance of Coburn ending up here...but...the fact the deal is not 'dead' is a very good thing and Its a nice change to see this manager taking some serious time to deliberate/negotiate.

You don't have to act "fast" to be "bold".

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07-02-2013, 02:37 PM
  #218
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I'm not sure why MacT would be in on Bolland.

Pretty steep price to pay for a center who can't stay healthy or win a face-off and is a UFA after this coming season.
As a fan of both teams (and a fan of Bolland), this. IIRC Bolland has back issues and concussion issues, and the Oilers need more durable players. That being said, Bolland is a prime playoff performer and one of the best 3rd line centres in the league (he should be, at that price), also, motivation during regular season play can come into question but the Hawks were also in no danger of missing the playoffs to begin with.

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07-02-2013, 03:48 PM
  #219
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Bolland can't win a faceoff to save his life. We already have RNH and Gagner to do that. I'd much rather a guy like Rich Peverley or Zack Smith please.

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07-02-2013, 03:49 PM
  #220
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I really believe that it's too early to tell.

I think the next week or so will be quite important for MacT and the Oil though.

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07-02-2013, 04:02 PM
  #221
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Sure he missed out on a few opportunities in Bolland and Clutterbuck at the draft, but that's only 2 players. How many impact players that the Oilers were looking for were actually traded?

The draft is always over hyped as a big trade event, but nothing really ever happens. There is still lots of time left to make trades.

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07-02-2013, 04:04 PM
  #222
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Too many people got their hopes up for big splashes and are pissed off that it didn't happen. No where did Mctavish promise big moves at the draft and people gotta stop acting like he did. He outlined what he saw as the problems on the team and that he wanted to be aggressive fixing it. With all the rumours out there on deals trying to get done I think that does qualify as MacT being aggressive trying to get pieces he wants... but that doesn't mean he was going to make a move just for the sake of making a move if the price was too high. I already have a lot more faith in Mctavish fixing hole on this team than Tambellini even if they don't get plugged this offseason simply because he seems to know exactly where the problems are. That is something that Tambellini it can be argued really didn't grasp.

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07-02-2013, 04:06 PM
  #223
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Originally Posted by Hockey Buddha View Post
MacTavish, by all reports, had the most lines in the water at the draft table of any GM, but none of those deals ultimately made sense for the Oilers. Apparently, MacTavish and Holmgren had a deal in principle in place, but according to reports, Holmgren backed out on it before it was consummated. The deal apparently centred around Colburn with multiple pieces going either way. According to various news stories, both sides are still talking and a deal could still happen.

These are trades involving multimillion dollar assets. I don't want our GM rushing into them, as much as I want things to happen, like everyone else.
Ftr i'm just saying the same thing as Halibut, that one prime opportunity has passed. I'm not judging the work prematurely.

That said, in ongoing dealings for Cobourn or anyone else I'll raise again that picks do, and should offer more incentive to other clubs BEFORE the draft. After a club has used their picks on their own preferential picks the value incumbent in these is of course null. The value of yet more prospects in an org loaded with prospects should also be considered nebulous. This being a commodity in excess that should have been moved.

MacT had a huge opportunity to leverage picks (which we don't need at all at this stage) to live bodies (which we do need.) This opportunity is passed. Its a one time opportunity thats not coming back.

We had a chance to use non players (picks) in barter to improve our present lineup. Now we will have to incur present player cost to obtain present player benefit. In otherwords NHL bodies for NHL bodies. The chance that we become substantially better through this course of action is arguably less in that you are giving up players in order to *add* to the lineup.

What I'm saying is an obvious point that everybody probably realizes but in lieu of discussion I think needs to be raised more often. Now we are only in net benefit territory, barring any free agent signings, raids, but I think we have a risk there as well with potentially losing Gagner.

hope this is clear


Last edited by Replacement: 07-02-2013 at 04:11 PM.
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Old
07-02-2013, 04:14 PM
  #224
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Someone in the Oilers hierarchy needs to put this up on the gms door.


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07-02-2013, 04:22 PM
  #225
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Someone in the Oilers hierarchy needs to put this up on the gms door.

I subscribe to the law of contrary public opinion... If everyone thinks one thing, then I say, bet the other way...

Sounds like a few our our posters mottos.

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