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Old
07-02-2013, 02:11 PM
  #201
Pizza
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
heres what i know about tolchinsky. ive been interested in him since he was 14 yrs old and since his days playing for cska krasnaya armiya in the mhl.

first off he wasnt a combine invitee. thats bad. also nhl central scouting rated him much lower than the other scouting agencies. thats bad. lastly, his outside shot is fairly weak. he needs to develop more strength there. bad again.

there are big concerns about his size and lack of muscle. hes slight and small. scouts were very concerned about his ability to be pro player. hes 5'8 maybe 160 and struggles to keep weight.

http://www.saultstar.com/2013/07/01/...sey-is-drafted

unlike a guy like tarasenko, who may not be tall, hes still built like a tank with thick limbs and a thick chest. hes got a low center and very developed torso/upper body.

tolchinsky has been on the radar for awhile as hes a magican with the pill. hes like a water bug. he has unquestionable work ethic and from all reports is a really good kid.

keep an eye on this kid. hes determined and motivated. hes just too damn small.

were he 6ft 200 lbs, he would have been a 1st rounder.

oh and i am NOT a fan of the tambellini pick at all
It's frustrating to see all that talent wrapped in such a small package. But there in lays the opportunity I guess. I'd love to see the Rangers give this kid a chance.

Is there any decent video of this kid offda?

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07-02-2013, 02:17 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
I am surprised so many people are down on Tambellini. I am just going to agree to disagree there.
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Originally Posted by Ian View Post
Yeah same here.

I'm not blown away by the pick, but the kid seems to be extremely solid in just about every area. Good skater, nice shot, decent size (6'2'' at 18) and by all accounts, has solid hockey sense.

The major knock on him is that he's a bean pole, but he's going to a great hockey school where he'll easily put on 15-20 lbs of mass.

Again, this kid won't light up the league, but I really don't see much drawback here. Maybe he would have been there 10-15 picks later, but if they like him, they like him.
The major knock doesn't seem to be that he's just a beanpole. It's that he doesn't seem to have the desire or the wherewithal to play big. It's early, but if he's not playing that way against guys smaller than him now I'm not sure he'll ever be that player. And that's why he's a 3rd rounder. My preference is usually stay away from these gentle giants unless the skill is outstanding. And 'outstanding' is yet to be seen. Like I said, it's early.

And that's disregarding the fact he was a standout in Edmonton pee wee hockey, and is the son of a former Oiler GM. Reeks of yet another Edmonton Glen fetish pick.

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07-02-2013, 02:29 PM
  #203
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
I am surprised so many people are down on Tambellini. I am just going to agree to disagree there.
as i stated, i said i was not a fan of the "pick". the kid has game but there were others better at 65. its not always who you pick but where... ala big mac.

would have rather taken the swede defender hansson. terrific offensive upside and a real need in this organization. love this kids wheels, smarts and ability to play "up ice".

also kujo at that spot would have been a better grab. great size and skates with ease. in fact, he has a top end nhl type stride now. goes from zero to top speed effortlessly.

liked both these guys better than tambellini

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07-02-2013, 02:31 PM
  #204
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Originally Posted by DudMan28 View Post
I think a quote from Moneyball really applies to the later round picks. They talked about tools and how a 5 tool player is rare(most top 5 picks would be considered 5-tool). Most kids are 1-2 tool players and they look to develop another once in the system.

Seems like thats what we have with these later round guys. They have 1-2 solid tools and the Rangers organization is hoping they can develop another 1 to make these guys NHL caliber players.
Yeah, or I mean, that is atleast one way to go about a late round pick.

Sometimes -- and probably alot more often before the red line offside was removed and everyone looked for size -- a plain but somewhat unsexy hockey player was looked over. Dan Girardi who went undrafted is definitely an example of a player of that type. I don't think you can label him as a 1 tool or 5 tool player, he is a bit of everything and he can do it all in the NHL night in and night out. On the other end of the spectrum, you have kids picked in the top 10 overall in a draft who fails to really come even close to playing an NHL game. They would look like a joke on the ice in the NHL, for Girardi it look pretty easy.

In the end, I firmly believe in the ability to play the game more than anything else. Get a good hockey player. You need to start with a good hockey player. Then that good hockey player might have flaws that causes him to fall in the draft.

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07-02-2013, 02:34 PM
  #205
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
The major knock doesn't seem to be that he's just a beanpole. It's that he doesn't seem to have the desire or the wherewithal to play big. It's early, but if he's not playing that way against guys smaller than him now I'm not sure he'll ever be that player. And that's why he's a 3rd rounder. My preference is usually stay away from these gentle giants unless the skill is outstanding. And 'outstanding' is yet to be seen. Like I said, it's early.

And that's disregarding the fact he was a standout in Edmonton pee wee hockey, and is the son of a former Oiler GM. Reeks of yet another Edmonton Glen fetish pick.
Obviously this kid is not going to turn into Lucic, but from what I've read on him it sounds like he's willing to put himself in the corners, in the slot, high traffic areas, etc, so it doesn't sound like he's some wimp out there ignoring all contact. It's not like he isn't strong on his skates.

Not trying to criticize by saying this, but it just sounds like a case of people trying to poke holes in this kid because he's not destroying people on hits and he's 6'2'' (which I don't find surprising considering he's probably carried the offensive play in juniors and doesn't weight much, so why would he be throwing himself around?).

I've never actually seen him play, as I'm sure 99.9% of us haven't either, I just don't see the concern with this pick. IMO this was an incredibly safe choice, so that to me is a fair criticism if you don't like this choice.

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07-02-2013, 02:38 PM
  #206
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
In the end, I firmly believe in the ability to play the game more than anything else. Get a good hockey player. You need to start with a good hockey player. Then that good hockey player might have flaws that causes him to fall in the draft.
THIS should be every scouts mantra.

An abundance of NHL hockey players on the cupboard affords you to then pick and chose other attributes and teams assets in trades, free agency.

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07-02-2013, 02:42 PM
  #207
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
I am surprised so many people are down on Tambellini. I am just going to agree to disagree there.
I'm with you. Haven't seen much. But seems to have natural offensive instincts, a good release, and good skating. 3-4 years of adding muscle at No Dak and who knows.

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07-02-2013, 02:48 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by Ian View Post
Obviously this kid is not going to turn into Lucic, but from what I've read on him it sounds like he's willing to put himself in the corners, in the slot, high traffic areas, etc, so it doesn't sound like he's some wimp out there ignoring all contact. It's not like he isn't strong on his skates.

Not trying to criticize by saying this, but it just sounds like a case of people trying to poke holes in this kid because he's not destroying people on hits and he's 6'2'' (which I don't find surprising considering he's probably carried the offensive play in juniors and doesn't weight much, so why would he be throwing himself around?).

I've never actually seen him play, as I'm sure 99.9% of us haven't either, I just don't see the concern with this pick. IMO this was an incredibly safe choice, so that to me is a fair criticism if you don't like this choice.
I can't believe anyone would say this was a safe choice. Same way I don't agree that you can label it a bust. Poke holes? What else can you do, just take the positives the local 'writers' give us? There are obviously reasons why he lasted to the 3rd round, you will hear them, unavoidable, especially since we had no 1st or 2nd.

And you're right, he could very well be strong on his skates for being so thin. And 'using his size' doesn't mean knocking guys around, it could mean utilizing his reach as an advantage in all situations. Playing at North Dakota should benefit this part of his game.

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07-02-2013, 03:04 PM
  #209
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
I can't believe anyone would say this was a safe choice. Same way I don't agree that you can label it a bust. Poke holes? What else can you do, just take the positives the local 'writers' give us? There are obviously reasons why he lasted to the 3rd round, you will hear them, unavoidable, especially since we had no 1st or 2nd.

And you're right, he could very well be strong on his skates for being so thin. And 'using his size' doesn't mean knocking guys around, it could mean utilizing his reach as an advantage in all situations. Playing at North Dakota should benefit this part of his game.
Perhaps safe is the wrong word, conservative?

My estimation on this kid is that his upside is relatively limited, and I completely understand how people could criticize this choice for the fact that higher upside players were still available.

I just like that nowhere I have read that he has a low compete level or a poor hockey IQ.

As you said, hopefully spending the next 4 years at North Dakota treats him well.

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07-02-2013, 04:25 PM
  #210
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Can't remember a more debated third round pick than this kid.

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07-02-2013, 04:26 PM
  #211
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Any reports on how tolchensky did today?

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07-02-2013, 04:30 PM
  #212
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Originally Posted by Pizza View Post
I agree.

The first guy is the one that can score the big goal in a tough playoff series. Helps wear the other team down.

The second guy is the one who can look good during the regular season but might be a perimeter player come playoff time.

These are generalizations for sure. What the Rangers really need is a good mix of both. That is what the best teams down through the years have had and this year was no exception. Chicago had skill, but they also had plenty of size and snarl.
I read on the main board, that Chicago was the second smallest team in the league

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Old
07-02-2013, 04:35 PM
  #213
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Graves sounds like he did well today at the scrimmage


http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/ran...on-skating-ant

Good reads

Quote:
Offensively Anthony Duclair (3rd round, 2013) was among the standouts, seemingly always on the puck, though he was unable to showcase that great speed we have heard about. He was also very responsible on the back check. Nieves (2nd round, 2012) stood out as the best playmaker on the ice, creating a string of scoring chances with his excellent vision and precise passing. Buchnevich (3rd round, 2013) showed a quick release and has the look of a sniper, always putting himself in position to shoot and to try and score. He rang one of his shots off the post from just inside the right circle at one point.
Nieves sounds A LOT like Stepan when he went to his second prospects camp, no?


Quote:
Andrew Yogan---on a deflection in front, Thomas Spelling---off a pretty set up by St. Croix, Alexander Krushelynski---an impressive finish from an unsigned camp invitee, and Skjei---into the empty net---were among the goal scorers Tuesday. While Skjei surely was pleased with his goal, it was the strong positional play and shot-blocking of the Rangers 2012 first rounder which stood out the most during the scrimmage. That and the fact that Skjei has added ten pounds of muscle and now boasts a solid 205 pound frame surely had the Rangers brass feeling good.

Seeing goals and strong play from past draft picks like Yogan (4th round, 2010), Spelling (5th round, 2012), and St. Croix (4th round, 2011) was a plus, as was the physical play of McIlrath (1st round, 2010) and Graves (4th round, 2013). At one point McIlrath hit Hrivik so hard, he lifted the strong forward off his skates and delivered him hard into the back boards. And Graves opened the scrimmage with a punishing hit in the corner after only ten seconds or so of play.
Skjei's skating is already NHL-level. His positioning is solid. Glad to hear he had a good scrimmage.

I am not going to lie, seeing Graves, Noreau and McIlrath all skating after practice and working hard is a good sight. (3) very big, mean d-men who can actually play the game.

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07-02-2013, 04:36 PM
  #214
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Originally Posted by themann View Post
Any reports on how tolchensky did today?
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And keep an eye on Sergey Tolchinsky, a Russian unsigned camp invitee with an outstanding offensive skill set. He may look like he's 14 years old, but this undrafted 18 year old can hang with the much bigger boys by the looks of it today. Tolchinsky scored 26 goals playing for Sault Ste. Marie in the OHL last year, and many scouting reports had stated that if he was only a couple inches taller than his listed 5-foot-7 he would have been selected within the top three rounds of this year's draft .

Last year Kyle Jean impressed enough as a development camp invitee to earn a pro contract. Tolchinsky is among several players hoping for the same positive fate this summer.

Dynamic. But you have to keep in mind, Ryan Bourque looked good in these scrimmages as well and he has had serious issues translating to the pro game.

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07-02-2013, 04:39 PM
  #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
Dynamic. But you have to keep in mind, Ryan Bourque looked good in these scrimmages as well and he has had serious issues translating to the pro game.
This.

And everyone knows my views on Bourque.

I want to see Tolch signed. Yet I also realize that there is a good 90% chance he won't make it. However, his upside is just so God damn huge that it makes no sense not to take that risk. I'd much prefer him as a prospect than Bourque.

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07-02-2013, 04:40 PM
  #216
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Would we even be allowed to sign him if we wanted? doesn't he have to go through the draft a couple more times

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07-02-2013, 04:44 PM
  #217
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Would we even be allowed to sign him if we wanted? doesn't he have to go through the draft a couple more times
That was my thought as well. He can't be signed. He is only 18.

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07-02-2013, 04:44 PM
  #218
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I thought we had a few weeks to sign him like we did with Bell (and chose not to)?

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07-02-2013, 04:49 PM
  #219
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
I thought we had a few weeks to sign him like we did with Bell (and chose not to)?
Where's RB. I really thought you couldn't sign them until they had gone through the draft a few times.

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07-02-2013, 04:51 PM
  #220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
Where's RB. I really thought you couldn't sign them until they had gone through the draft a few times.
That used to be the case. I was fairly sure that you can sign an undrafted prospect now if he is at your camp but you have a very limited time to do it. I fully admit I may be wrong.

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07-02-2013, 04:52 PM
  #221
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
Dynamic. But you have to keep in mind, Ryan Bourque looked good in these scrimmages as well and he has had serious issues translating to the pro game.
Ryan B is a very good hockey player. He was great in the WJC's too.

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07-02-2013, 04:52 PM
  #222
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That goal by Krushlyneski (sp?) was pretty nice. Saw that he plays for Colorado College and his father won 3 cups with the Oilers, but Ive never heard of him before.

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07-02-2013, 04:54 PM
  #223
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Pretty sure i read a few pages back yesterday that there's a window where they can sign him...to lazy to find it tho

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07-02-2013, 04:56 PM
  #224
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Apparently we may be able to sign Tolchinsky....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
Check these two posts:

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...9&postcount=86

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Based on the last CBA, Tolchinsky could sign with somebody from now up until the OHL regular season starts, even though he has remaining draft eligibility. This is how the Sharks signed Michael Sgarbossa, ditto the Kings with Martin Jones. If Tolchinsky doesn't sign by the the start of the OHL season, then he'd go back into the draft pool for 2014.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...1&postcount=87

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07-02-2013, 04:58 PM
  #225
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
That used to be the case. I was fairly sure that you can sign an undrafted prospect now if he is at your camp but you have a very limited time to do it. I fully admit I may be wrong.
Oh God, is this part of the new ******* CBA. I swear, it takes me 3 years to learn one and then they ****ing change it!!!!!! ARG!

In that case, though, they should sign him immediately and send him back to juniors.

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Ryan B is a very good hockey player. He was great in the WJC's too.
Yep. And I think he could be a 4th line winger, but his size is detrimental.

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Pretty sure i read a few pages back yesterday that there's a window where they can sign him...to lazy to find it tho
Thanks

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