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Bobby Ryan for Ehrhoff

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Old
07-02-2013, 10:56 AM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Petes2424 View Post
If he put a couple good seasons together, you'd have something. Until then, nobody wants to commit that term to a guy you can grab somewhere else for the same money on a lessor term.
What are you talking about? A couple of good seasons? Did you even bother looking at his career stats? Prorated for 82 game seasons, he's scored at >40pt pace over the past 5 seasons.

And there is nobody that will be available anytime soon of his caliber, especially for a $4m cap hit.

Oy vey

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07-02-2013, 11:11 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Petes2424 View Post
If he put a couple good seasons together, you'd have something. Until then, nobody wants to commit that term to a guy you can grab somewhere else for the same money on a lessor term.
No offense, but you have no clue what you are talking about. Ehrhoff has been a legit no. 1 since he arrived in Buffalo. He would have been in Norris discussions if Buffalo wasn't so terrible. As I said earlier, his performance/cap hit ratio has to be among the best in the NHL.

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07-02-2013, 11:14 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
No offense, but you have no clue what you are talking about. Ehrhoff has been a legit no. 1 since he arrived in Buffalo. He would have been in Norris discussions if Buffalo wasn't so terrible. As I said earlier, his performance/cap hit ratio has to be among the best in the NHL.
Yeah, the ignorance around here regarding Buffalo players is pretty astounding to me.

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07-02-2013, 11:15 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
No offense, but you have no clue what you are talking about. Ehrhoff has been a legit no. 1 since he arrived in Buffalo. He would have been in Norris discussions if Buffalo wasn't so terrible. As I said earlier, his performance/cap hit ratio has to be among the best in the NHL.
Which is the reason I wouldn't trade him for Ryan. While the value is indeed there, when our rebuild is complete he (Ryan) would have bolted to some other team.

People really need to stop this nonsense (Sabres fans mostly) about immediate help, it is not happening nor would it be smart. It's time for a suffering, build from youth and draft. While Ryan is young, that contract is up way too soon.

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07-02-2013, 11:18 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by cramdizzl View Post
Yeah, the ignorance around here regarding Buffalo players is pretty astounding to me.
Thats quite normal when people watching other conference start valuing the players playing on the other.

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07-02-2013, 11:21 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Jagemon View Post
Which is the reason I wouldn't trade him for Ryan. While the value is indeed there, when our rebuild is complete he (Ryan) would have bolted to some other team.

People really need to stop this nonsense (Sabres fans mostly) about immediate help, it is not happening nor would it be smart. It's time for a suffering, build from youth and draft. While Ryan is young, that contract is up way too soon.
I agree that this trade doesn't make a ton of sense for Buffalo, as I would be tempted to throw the C on Ehrhoff. Some of the posts about him have been misinformed, to put it mildly. Yeah, you can do better then him as a no. 1, or even no. 2, but you could do a whole lot worse too. He's a very good top pairing guy on a very good cap hit.

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07-02-2013, 11:27 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Petes2424 View Post
If he put a couple good seasons together, you'd have something. Until then, nobody wants to commit that term to a guy you can grab somewhere else for the same money on a lessor term.
What is left on his contract:

next 4 yrs $4M per year cap hit $4M per year
year 5 $3M salary cap hit $4M
year 6-8 $1M salary cap hit $4M

Effectivly you could view this as a 5 yr contract at $4M per then you buy it out after year 5 at a cap hit of $333,333 over 6 years for $2M total paid (damn that breaks the bank)

For a top 2 Dman that is a bargain.

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07-02-2013, 11:31 AM
  #108
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I really like erhoff and while dont think he is a #1 you cant argue he is a#2/3 with a great cap hit. The big problem is the age difference.

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07-02-2013, 11:33 AM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petes2424 View Post
If he put a couple good seasons together, you'd have something. Until then, nobody wants to commit that term to a guy you can grab somewhere else for the same money on a lessor term.
He has put a couple of good seasons together. I'll say it again: he's been playing ~25 minutes a game for Buffalo, against tough competition, in all situations, and has by FAR the best possession numbers of any player on the team. His corsi rel is among the best in the league, despite playing on the NHL's worst possession team. He also led Sabres defensemen in points last year by a big margin. With the new CBA, you're not going to get a defenseman who can provide what Ehrhoff can for a lower cap hit, and it's frankly ridiculous to think otherwise. Look at the deal Streit just got, which takes him to age 39.

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07-02-2013, 11:35 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by cramdizzl View Post
Yeah, the ignorance around here regarding Buffalo players is pretty astounding to me.
Buffalo's a bad team, so every individual player on the team must therefor be bad and have little value, dontchyaknow.

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07-02-2013, 11:36 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
How the heck does Ehrhoff carry that kind of value? Talk about the shenanigans an obscure franchise can pull...
Seriously! Just because he has an elite Dman contract doesn't make him one.

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07-02-2013, 11:39 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by SharksFan1 View Post
Seriously! Just because he has an elite Dman contract doesn't make him one.
How many elite dmen have a 4 mil caphit?

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07-02-2013, 11:48 AM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cramdizzl View Post
Can somebody explain to me why everyone seems to think that Ehrhoff's contract is a "killer"?

For a defenseman of his caliber, $4m per year cap hit is a bargain, especially because his contract was front-loaded and a lot less needs to be paid for the rest of the term. You could easily justify paying him 5-6m+, look at what Streit just got from Philly.

Secondly, he's only 30 years old, which is pretty much prime age for defenseman. Again, look at Streit, making >$5m at 35 for the next four years. That takes him to 39, Ehrhoffs to 38, at a smaller cap hit and muuuch less actual salary.

Posters around here are putting waaaaay too much stock into contract length, especially for a defenseman. If it was a forward being paid till he's 38, sure, thats not great. But tons of defenseman play well until their late 30's, and even into their early 40's.

Saying that Ehrhoff's contract is a "killer" is really not even justifiable.
Not that you will listen but....First of all, he will be 31 in 4 days, not 30. Secondly, if he merely sucks when he gets older but doesn't want to retire, he will cost $3.3M per year in cap hit for any of the last 3 years that are bought out. Just because you tell us he will be great the full length of his contract means nothing.

You've made a proposal that nobody likes including many BUF fans. Maybe it's time to just move on instead of getting mad at everybody who doesn't agree with you.

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07-02-2013, 11:51 AM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Djp View Post
What is left on his contract:

next 4 yrs $4M per year cap hit $4M per year
year 5 $3M salary cap hit $4M
year 6-8 $1M salary cap hit $4M

Effectivly you could view this as a 5 yr contract at $4M per then you buy it out after year 5 at a cap hit of $333,333 over 6 years for $2M total paid (damn that breaks the bank)

For a top 2 Dman that is a bargain.
You better double check your math. The first 3 years of that buyout will cost you 3.3M each.

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07-02-2013, 12:23 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Eddie Shack View Post
You better double check your math. The first 3 years of that buyout will cost you 3.3M each.


BUFFALO cap advantage right now is about $10M ....if he retires or is bought out BUF will have to take this onto their books spread out over the remaining years of his contract not paid. the new team walks away with zero cap impact from the front loaded part of the contract.

If new team buys him out after year 5 when he has $3M left over 3 yrs...they get hit on the books $333,333 per year over 6 years

BUF will then need to take a cap hit over those final 3 years of the orginal contract at $3.33M over 3 yrs to make up the $10M advantage they currently have on the contract.

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07-02-2013, 12:26 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Eddie Shack View Post
Not that you will listen but....First of all, he will be 31 in 4 days, not 30. Secondly, if he merely sucks when he gets older but doesn't want to retire, he will cost $3.3M per year in cap hit for any of the last 3 years that are bought out. Just because you tell us he will be great the full length of his contract means nothing.

You've made a proposal that nobody likes including many BUF fans. Maybe it's time to just move on instead of getting mad at everybody who doesn't agree with you.
I'm not even talking about the proposal anymore, especially in that post. That was asking why posters seem to think his contract sucks so bad, when in reality its actually quite a bargain.

I'm a pretty good listener too, and I only get mad at ignorance, which plenty of your fellow fans have displayed. I like to consider myself an educator.

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07-02-2013, 01:06 PM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Djp View Post
BUFFALO cap advantage right now is about $10M ....if he retires or is bought out BUF will have to take this onto their books spread out over the remaining years of his contract not paid. the new team walks away with zero cap impact from the front loaded part of the contract.

If new team buys him out after year 5 when he has $3M left over 3 yrs...they get hit on the books $333,333 per year over 6 years

BUF will then need to take a cap hit over those final 3 years of the orginal contract at $3.33M over 3 yrs to make up the $10M advantage they currently have on the contract.
I don't think that is correct. If he retires yes, BUF is on the hook for the cap hit. He and BUF made that contract decision together. But if the new team decides to buy him out that hit goes on them. I don't think the new team has the ability to penalize the old team.

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07-02-2013, 01:19 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by cramdizzl View Post
I'm not even talking about the proposal anymore, especially in that post. That was asking why posters seem to think his contract sucks so bad, when in reality its actually quite a bargain.

I'm a pretty good listener too, and I only get mad at ignorance, which plenty of your fellow fans have displayed. I like to consider myself an educator.
You should understand people don't come to HF to be lectured by strangers on subjective things like player values.

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07-02-2013, 01:47 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Ghrei View Post
How many elite dmen have a 4 mil caphit?
Sorry, though his cap hit was much more.

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07-02-2013, 02:15 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Eddie Shack View Post
You should understand people don't come to HF to be lectured by strangers on subjective things like player values.
Just teaching facts, nothing more, because posters seem to think that $4m is a lot for a top line D-man.

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07-02-2013, 02:21 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by cramdizzl View Post
Just teaching facts, nothing more, because posters seem to think that $4m is a lot for a top line D-man.
It's not and no one has argued that. It's the term, if anything, that raises questions.

It's not cool to call others ignorant when you fall into the same category when it came to Ducks players (I don't mean any offense by that, I think you just didn't actually realize what our needs are, the type of talent we have, and why we'd have hesitation about this proposal).

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07-02-2013, 02:45 PM
  #122
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Why sabre fans want immediate help absolutely baffles me. IT MAKES ZERO SENSE, we have scoring problems? there's alot of problem's with this team right now which is why WE ARE REBUILDING.

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07-02-2013, 02:59 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by cramdizzl View Post
Just teaching facts, nothing more, because posters seem to think that $4m is a lot for a top line D-man.
When you call your opinion facts you are going to raise others' hackles. It comes across completely arrogant to wonder why everybody else doesn't view things like you do. Your ability to predict Ehrhoff's future is no better than anybody else. You really should take a step back and contemplate that before continuing to insist your opinion is right and everybody else's is wrong.

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07-02-2013, 03:29 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by cramdizzl View Post
Just teaching facts, nothing more, because posters seem to think that $4m is a lot for a top line D-man.
Arguing that Ehrhoff is a better defenseman than Beauchemin because he produces more is not a fact. It's an opinion. A pretty questionable one at that. Beauchemin has consistently been a very, very good defenseman for Anaheim. They have absolutely no reason to think this will change. This isn't about a single season, it's about Beauchemin's career in Anaheim to date.

Here's my problem with this deal: It really doesn't take Anaheim's needs into consideration. Ehrhoff is a talented defenseman. There is no doubt about it. It just doesn't make sense for Anaheim to move such a valued offensive talent in Bobby Ryan for Ehrhoff. In my estimation the Ducks can get more for Ryan, and they can do a better job of filling their needs.

As far as Cam Fowler is concerned, I do believe his presence on the team would be a consideration in a deal like this. Fowler is 21 years old, with significant upside, and a tool box that would make any GM in the league salivate. He's signed to a five year contract, and by all accounts the team thinks very, very highly of him. His role on the team is already significant, and it's just going to become more so. Carlyle fell in love with the kid, and it seems Boudreau has as well. That says a lot, doesn't it? If the Ducks look at Fowler, and they feel that he can match, or exceed the play of Ehrhoff shortly then they may just not feel Ehrhoff is necessary. Especially at the expense of Bobby Ryan. There's a reason why so many Anaheim fans are so adamant that the team needs to find a defenseman who can play with Fowler. He projects to be the future of this blue line, and with a prospect like Hampus Lindholm in the pipeline, I think we're all pretty excited about the core of this blue line moving ahead. In my estimation, the Ducks are going to be looking to build around those players, and Ehrhoff doesn't really seem to fit that category.

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07-02-2013, 04:00 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
Arguing that Ehrhoff is a better defenseman than Beauchemin because he produces more is not a fact. It's an opinion. A pretty questionable one at that. Beauchemin has consistently been a very, very good defenseman for Anaheim. They have absolutely no reason to think this will change. This isn't about a single season, it's about Beauchemin's career in Anaheim to date.

Here's my problem with this deal: It really doesn't take Anaheim's needs into consideration. Ehrhoff is a talented defenseman. There is no doubt about it. It just doesn't make sense for Anaheim to move such a valued offensive talent in Bobby Ryan for Ehrhoff. In my estimation the Ducks can get more for Ryan, and they can do a better job of filling their needs.

As far as Cam Fowler is concerned, I do believe his presence on the team would be a consideration in a deal like this. Fowler is 21 years old, with significant upside, and a tool box that would make any GM in the league salivate. He's signed to a five year contract, and by all accounts the team thinks very, very highly of him. His role on the team is already significant, and it's just going to become more so. Carlyle fell in love with the kid, and it seems Boudreau has as well. That says a lot, doesn't it? If the Ducks look at Fowler, and they feel that he can match, or exceed the play of Ehrhoff shortly then they may just not feel Ehrhoff is necessary. Especially at the expense of Bobby Ryan. There's a reason why so many Anaheim fans are so adamant that the team needs to find a defenseman who can play with Fowler. He projects to be the future of this blue line, and with a prospect like Hampus Lindholm in the pipeline, I think we're all pretty excited about the core of this blue line moving ahead. In my estimation, the Ducks are going to be looking to build around those players, and Ehrhoff doesn't really seem to fit that category.
You saved me 5 minutes of typing on my cell phone... Thanks.

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