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Old
07-02-2013, 03:43 PM
  #276
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/basketball/...-bargnani.html

Fire Glen Grunwald.

The thought of having two of the softest bigmen in Stoudemire and Bargnani makes me want to puke. The only good from this is seeing Novak jettison out of here, he was brutally overrated by Knicks fans.
Fire the guy who just opened us up to signing Kevin Love, Rondo, or Marc Gasol. By getting Bargnani to play on a roster you've already said can't win a ring.

Or the guy who's made a bunch of savvy moves since taking over.

No thanks.

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07-02-2013, 03:46 PM
  #277
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
Fire the guy who just opened us up to signing Kevin Love, Rondo, or Marc Gasol. By getting Bargnani to play on a roster you've already said can't win a ring.

Or the guy who's made a bunch of savvy moves since taking over.

No thanks.
There is no guarantee those players sign here though. Forking over assets like Camby and picks for Bargnani is bad move IMO. I don't see how he improves the team, his jump shot hasn't been that good lately. Raps fans are elated at the thought of him moving onto a different team.

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07-02-2013, 04:00 PM
  #278
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Camby isn't an asset, he's done. The picks are the only part of this deal that hurt, but again it's clear the front office wants to try to contend with Melo in his prime. Bargnani sucks, having him peace out when we can hopefully entice K-Love over does not. If nobody comes, we rebuild. Not the end of the world. Denver could swap the first rounder so it's not like we would get a good pick with that. We either get K-Love and/or Rondo and keep trying to contend, or blow it up and rebuild when we have some protected picks. Not the worst thing.

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07-02-2013, 04:04 PM
  #279
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
Camby isn't an asset, he's done. The picks are the only part of this deal that hurt, but again it's clear the front office wants to try to contend with Melo in his prime. Bargnani sucks, having him peace out when we can hopefully entice K-Love over does not. If nobody comes, we rebuild. Not the end of the world. Denver could swap the first rounder so it's not like we would get a good pick with that. We either get K-Love and/or Rondo and keep trying to contend, or blow it up and rebuild when we have some protected picks. Not the worst thing.
If Camby wasn't an asset, why did they move picks for him last year?

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07-02-2013, 04:04 PM
  #280
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To make it clear, I don't think Bargnani is good or expect him to be good. He's an awful player. But Novak suddenly stopped hitting threes and Camby's 40 years old, so i'm fine with them going, and they're signed for another 2 years. Bargnani's contract is more appealing than the combined Novak/Camby contracts.

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07-02-2013, 04:06 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
If Camby wasn't an asset, why did they move picks for him last year?
Because we thought he would be an asset. He had a good season.

When guys hit his age they can lose it at any moment. Camby racked up the injuries this year, wasn't that good when he WAS on the floor, and has a terrible contract to boot.

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07-02-2013, 10:11 PM
  #282
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
Camby isn't an asset, he's done. The picks are the only part of this deal that hurt, but again it's clear the front office wants to try to contend with Melo in his prime. Bargnani sucks, having him peace out when we can hopefully entice K-Love over does not. If nobody comes, we rebuild. Not the end of the world. Denver could swap the first rounder so it's not like we would get a good pick with that. We either get K-Love and/or Rondo and keep trying to contend, or blow it up and rebuild when we have some protected picks. Not the worst thing.
With what draft picks?

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07-02-2013, 10:12 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
To make it clear, I don't think Bargnani is good or expect him to be good. He's an awful player. But Novak suddenly stopped hitting threes and Camby's 40 years old, so i'm fine with them going, and they're signed for another 2 years. Bargnani's contract is more appealing than the combined Novak/Camby contracts.
Novak didn't stop hitting 3's,Woodson stopped playing him.

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07-02-2013, 10:17 PM
  #284
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Knicks gave up what?? For who? Trying to shed money? Seriously no idea why this trade was done

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07-02-2013, 11:15 PM
  #285
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I actually like the move for you guys. Not as much as I like the Nets offseason, mind you, but I like the move.

You're built around 'Melo in his prime. You got the best player in the deal - criminally underrated because he was #1 overall and didn't dominate. He complements 'Melo a lot better than STAT and, well, anyone else on the roster.

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07-03-2013, 12:01 AM
  #286
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Originally Posted by mrmovies779 View Post
With what draft picks?
The ones we'll have by the time all our big contracts are off the books.

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07-03-2013, 04:44 AM
  #287
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Good move.

Camby sucks. Novak is the most one-dimensional player in the NBA since Del Curry.

They essentially got a guy who is a one of the most lethal outside shooters in the NBA -- a slight dip below Nowitzki. The fact that he can grab 5-6 boards a game despite hanging out on the outside is a good sign as well.

Very good move. He's young too. Novak, Camby and Kidd were useless the last two months of the season. People cried about Melo needing secondary help.

Well, now he's got it.

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07-03-2013, 04:46 AM
  #288
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Originally Posted by mrmovies779 View Post
Novak didn't stop hitting 3's,Woodson stopped playing him.
He was taken out of the rotation because he didnt fight through screens, didn't work to get open, never/couldnt play defense and was more off with his shot than the previous season.

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07-03-2013, 11:25 AM
  #289
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Bargnani ISN'T a good three point shooter, though.

http://www.postingandtoasting.com/20...is-front-court

Bargnani is really, really bad. I mean, we can always hope that he'll suddenly live up to what he should be able to do as a stretch 4, but i'm more excited about the possibility of getting K-Love with the cap space we'll get when he's gone.

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07-03-2013, 09:35 PM
  #290
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Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
Good move.

Camby sucks. Novak is the most one-dimensional player in the NBA since Del Curry.

They essentially got a guy who is a one of the most lethal outside shooters in the NBA -- a slight dip below Nowitzki. The fact that he can grab 5-6 boards a game despite hanging out on the outside is a good sign as well.

Very good move. He's young too. Novak, Camby and Kidd were useless the last two months of the season. People cried about Melo needing secondary help.

Well, now he's got it.
Good move?

They got a guard in a big mans body,another 1 dimensional player who doesn't defend,averaged 4 boards last year.Yes,4 boards...and gave up more draft picks in the process.

We still have no backup big man that can defend.i really don't see it as a good move.We are becoming such a 1 dimensional team up front its sad.

But hey,we got another scorer for Melo not to pass the ball to!

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07-03-2013, 09:36 PM
  #291
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Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
He was taken out of the rotation because he didnt fight through screens, didn't work to get open, never/couldnt play defense and was more off with his shot than the previous season.
If you really believe that,i got a golden bridge I would love to sell to you cheap.

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07-04-2013, 09:22 AM
  #292
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Some of these arguments are really pointless.

Novak made a name for himself 2 seasons ago, his first year here. For whatever reason, the Knicks gave him a grossly overpaying contract for his abilities.

He plays 0 defense. He can't drive to the hoop. He can't rebound. And last year he was ineffective when doing the only thing he's good at, shooting 3's. He got some burn in the beginning of the season but he lived down to his play from the previous year and that's why he continued to lose time as the season went along. It's not like he was in the doghouse when he lost time either - he was given every opportunity to win his minutes back. We had a bevy of injuries all year long and he did nothing to solidify his role on this team with more than ample opportunities.

I loved the Camby trade here when it was made. We got him for 2 2nd round picks and 3 players that would have made 0 impact for this team - essentially nothing. But sometimes you work up a player in your imagination and build up unfair expectations of how they'll play, which is exactly what I did. I thought (hoped) that Camby could be our X-Factor this season. We needed physical centers focused on defense and that was his forte. I'm not going to blame injuries on his season, Marcus has lost his ability to play in the NBA. Instead of being a strong cog in our defensive unit he would become a liability. He was constantly out of position, bullied out from under the paint, making stupid decisions. He was slow to get back on defense, he was slow to get up the court to assist with offensive rebounds. Marcus was one of my favorite players growing up but there comes a time when the body can no longer handle playing professional sports amongst younger and stronger guys.

As for the draft picks we lost. 2 2nd's (again essentially nothing) and a 1st in 2016. The 1st hurts, but only if we have a horrific season that year. As for that, I do not think it will be the case. 73.5 mill will be coming off the books between 4 players the year before. Money talks. If the fa's resign, we can do sign and trades with unhappy players. The point is we have a lot of flexibility then. It was a great alignment of contracts by Grunwald.

As for the trade itself, I like it, personally. The 1st hurt cause there is no guarantee we will field a good team in 3 years time and therefore that pick could be invaluable to rebuilding. Besides that though, Bargnani compliments Melo better than anyone on the current roster. He could provide to be a very important piece to this team if he is able to be coached defensively and buys into the effort and defense that is preached here. I think he needed a change of scenery so his production should only improve as a member of the Knicks.

Rebounding wise, he'll contribute more than both Camby and Novak did/would have. Camby never got on the court and Novak couldn't do that. Defensively, Bargnani can't be worse than Novak and again Camby never got on the court to contribute to team defense, even if healthy. Offensively Bargnani is miles above both Novak and Camby together. He has consistency where Novak does not. I know it may upset some of you but you need to look at the realistic production of the players we traded rather than what you ideally think they'll be able to do.

At worst, if healthy, Bargnani will be able to give us 15 and 5 a night.

That's better than Novak + Camby at best.

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07-04-2013, 09:34 AM
  #293
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Some of these arguments are really pointless.

Novak made a name for himself 2 seasons ago, his first year here. For whatever reason, the Knicks gave him a grossly overpaying contract for his abilities.

He plays 0 defense. He can't drive to the hoop. He can't rebound. And last year he was ineffective when doing the only thing he's good at, shooting 3's. He got some burn in the beginning of the season but he lived down to his play from the previous year and that's why he continued to lose time as the season went along. It's not like he was in the doghouse when he lost time either - he was given every opportunity to win his minutes back. We had a bevy of injuries all year long and he did nothing to solidify his role on this team with more than ample opportunities.

I loved the Camby trade here when it was made. We got him for 2 2nd round picks and 3 players that would have made 0 impact for this team - essentially nothing. But sometimes you work up a player in your imagination and build up unfair expectations of how they'll play, which is exactly what I did. I thought (hoped) that Camby could be our X-Factor this season. We needed physical centers focused on defense and that was his forte. I'm not going to blame injuries on his season, Marcus has lost his ability to play in the NBA. Instead of being a strong cog in our defensive unit he would become a liability. He was constantly out of position, bullied out from under the paint, making stupid decisions. He was slow to get back on defense, he was slow to get up the court to assist with offensive rebounds. Marcus was one of my favorite players growing up but there comes a time when the body can no longer handle playing professional sports amongst younger and stronger guys.

As for the draft picks we lost. 2 2nd's (again essentially nothing) and a 1st in 2016. The 1st hurts, but only if we have a horrific season that year. As for that, I do not think it will be the case. 73.5 mill will be coming off the books between 4 players the year before. Money talks. If the fa's resign, we can do sign and trades with unhappy players. The point is we have a lot of flexibility then. It was a great alignment of contracts by Grunwald.

As for the trade itself, I like it, personally. The 1st hurt cause there is no guarantee we will field a good team in 3 years time and therefore that pick could be invaluable to rebuilding. Besides that though, Bargnani compliments Melo better than anyone on the current roster. He could provide to be a very important piece to this team if he is able to be coached defensively and buys into the effort and defense that is preached here. I think he needed a change of scenery so his production should only improve as a member of the Knicks.

Rebounding wise, he'll contribute more than both Camby and Novak did/would have. Camby never got on the court and Novak couldn't do that. Defensively, Bargnani can't be worse than Novak and again Camby never got on the court to contribute to team defense, even if healthy. Offensively Bargnani is miles above both Novak and Camby together. He has consistency where Novak does not. I know it may upset some of you but you need to look at the realistic production of the players we traded rather than what you ideally think they'll be able to do.

At worst, if healthy, Bargnani will be able to give us 15 and 5 a night.

That's better than Novak + Camby at best.
Actually, Denver has the option to swap #1s that year, so unless both the Knicks and Denver are very bad, that pick was going to be in the 20's anyway.

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07-04-2013, 09:50 AM
  #294
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Let's be real, Amar'e and his contract is the reason the Knicks can't improve therefore take the next step.

If they had another REAL max player, they'd be a top team.

Big mistake signing Amar'e.
Big mistake picking up Biillups option and proceeding to use that Amar'e bailout card (amnesty) on him.

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07-04-2013, 09:58 AM
  #295
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4 years and $6mil for JR? Barf.

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07-04-2013, 10:55 AM
  #296
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Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
Some of these arguments are really pointless.

Novak made a name for himself 2 seasons ago, his first year here. For whatever reason, the Knicks gave him a grossly overpaying contract for his abilities.

He plays 0 defense. He can't drive to the hoop. He can't rebound. And last year he was ineffective when doing the only thing he's good at, shooting 3's. He got some burn in the beginning of the season but he lived down to his play from the previous year and that's why he continued to lose time as the season went along. It's not like he was in the doghouse when he lost time either - he was given every opportunity to win his minutes back. We had a bevy of injuries all year long and he did nothing to solidify his role on this team with more than ample opportunities.

I loved the Camby trade here when it was made. We got him for 2 2nd round picks and 3 players that would have made 0 impact for this team - essentially nothing. But sometimes you work up a player in your imagination and build up unfair expectations of how they'll play, which is exactly what I did. I thought (hoped) that Camby could be our X-Factor this season. We needed physical centers focused on defense and that was his forte. I'm not going to blame injuries on his season, Marcus has lost his ability to play in the NBA. Instead of being a strong cog in our defensive unit he would become a liability. He was constantly out of position, bullied out from under the paint, making stupid decisions. He was slow to get back on defense, he was slow to get up the court to assist with offensive rebounds. Marcus was one of my favorite players growing up but there comes a time when the body can no longer handle playing professional sports amongst younger and stronger guys.

As for the draft picks we lost. 2 2nd's (again essentially nothing) and a 1st in 2016. The 1st hurts, but only if we have a horrific season that year. As for that, I do not think it will be the case. 73.5 mill will be coming off the books between 4 players the year before. Money talks. If the fa's resign, we can do sign and trades with unhappy players. The point is we have a lot of flexibility then. It was a great alignment of contracts by Grunwald.

As for the trade itself, I like it, personally. The 1st hurt cause there is no guarantee we will field a good team in 3 years time and therefore that pick could be invaluable to rebuilding. Besides that though, Bargnani compliments Melo better than anyone on the current roster. He could provide to be a very important piece to this team if he is able to be coached defensively and buys into the effort and defense that is preached here. I think he needed a change of scenery so his production should only improve as a member of the Knicks.

Rebounding wise, he'll contribute more than both Camby and Novak did/would have. Camby never got on the court and Novak couldn't do that. Defensively, Bargnani can't be worse than Novak and again Camby never got on the court to contribute to team defense, even if healthy. Offensively Bargnani is miles above both Novak and Camby together. He has consistency where Novak does not. I know it may upset some of you but you need to look at the realistic production of the players we traded rather than what you ideally think they'll be able to do.

At worst, if healthy, Bargnani will be able to give us 15 and 5 a night.

That's better than Novak + Camby at best.
Bustnani (nickname given by insufferable Raps fans) is a poor man's Stoudemire. Big man who can't rebound or play defense. And he's even more of a perimeter player than him. I watched a lot of his games last year and he was brutal. Seeing how STAT and Melo works so well together, I don't like this duo at all. Anyone expecting this to work out is in for a rude awakening.

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07-04-2013, 10:56 AM
  #297
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Originally Posted by BroadwayBlues View Post
Let's be real, Amar'e and his contract is the reason the Knicks can't improve therefore take the next step.

If they had another REAL max player, they'd be a top team.

Big mistake signing Amar'e.
Big mistake picking up Biillups option and proceeding to use that Amar'e bailout card (amnesty) on him.
blame the GM for his idiocy.

Masai Ujiri has done well with 2 trades against the Knicks. Getting back Galo and dumping Billups for a disgruntled player who publicily stated he wouldn't be back and sending Andrea 'Il Mago Bust' Bargnani to the Knicks.


Last edited by Kershaw: 07-04-2013 at 11:05 AM.
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07-04-2013, 12:03 PM
  #298
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At worst, if healthy, Bargnani will be able to give us 15 and 5 a night.

That's better than Novak + Camby at best.
While giving you nothing on the defensive end.People seem to forget to include that part.

What good is it if he gives you 15 and 4 and the player hes attempting to guard gives them 20 and 10?

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07-04-2013, 12:35 PM
  #299
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Good move?

They got a guard in a big mans body,another 1 dimensional player who doesn't defend,averaged 4 boards last year.Yes,4 boards...and gave up more draft picks in the process.

We still have no backup big man that can defend.i really don't see it as a good move.We are becoming such a 1 dimensional team up front its sad.

But hey,we got another scorer for Melo not to pass the ball to!

Novak and Camby suck. Camby never played and Novak is probably the only guy on earth with less dimensions than Bargnani.

This obsession with draft picks. The pick is a swap choice late 1st rounder. They traded a late 1st rounder for a guy who can hit jump shots and create his own shot, something Novak never did after people stopped biting for the pump fake.

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07-04-2013, 12:38 PM
  #300
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If you really believe that,i got a golden bridge I would love to sell to you cheap.
This makes no sense, but OK.

What are you denying?

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