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Old
07-02-2013, 08:47 PM
  #401
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Flyers are so entertaining.

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07-02-2013, 08:49 PM
  #402
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Hartnell - Giroux - Voracek
Schenn - Lecavalier - Simmonds
Gagne - Couturier - Read
Rinaldo - Laughton - Talbot

Kimmo Timonen - Luke Schenn
Mark Streit - Braydon Coburn
Nicklas Grossmann - Andrej Meszaros

Steve Mason


Actually looks great on paper. I wonder if they'll be able to put it together on the ice though.

I still want us to nab Laughton. PLEASE!

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Old
07-02-2013, 08:51 PM
  #403
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Sieve mason..

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07-02-2013, 08:52 PM
  #404
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You have to factor in that Teubert was a d-man and all the great d-man who went immediately after him.

Jessiman is the worst pick in recent memory, no question about it, a forward taken ahead of a bunch of all-star forwards in arguably the best draft of all time. I would stack Teubert up there with any of the other guys you listed though, just so many things about that pick were hideous. Drafting a guy with zero upside based on a need and passing over all-star and even Norris caliber defenders to do it. It's one thing if you swing for the fences and miss like they did with Hickey, in Teubert they were sacrifice bunting and missed. And it only took them a training camp and a single season to realize it.

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07-02-2013, 08:55 PM
  #405
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cabwaylingo View Post
Hartnell - Giroux - Voracek
Schenn - Lecavalier - Simmonds
Gagne - Couturier - Read
Rinaldo - Laughton - Talbot

Kimmo Timonen - Luke Schenn
Mark Streit - Braydon Coburn
Nicklas Grossmann - Andrej Meszaros

Steve Mason


Actually looks great on paper. I wonder if they'll be able to put it together on the ice though.

I still want us to nab Laughton. PLEASE!
What is that lineup with salaries? Gotta be at least 6 or 7 mil over cap.

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Old
07-02-2013, 08:58 PM
  #406
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You have to factor in that Teubert was a d-man and all the great d-man who went immediately after him.

Jessiman is the worst pick in recent memory, no question about it, a forward taken ahead of a bunch of all-star forwards in arguably the best draft of all time. I would stack Teubert up there with any of the other guys you listed though, just so many things about that pick were hideous. Drafting a guy with zero upside based on a need and passing over all-star and even Norris caliber defenders to do it. It's one thing if you swing for the fences and miss like they did with Hickey, in Teubert they were sacrifice bunting and missed. And it only took them a training camp and a single season to realize it.
You know what I found to be the most bothersome issue with Teubert? The guy was an ass. He allegedly would talk trash to other WHL players, talking about how he's got a pro contract. The guy eventually became a detriment to his own team and he had serious attitude problems. So in the end, he turned out to be a jackass, but thankfully the Kings got something out of him by acquiring Penner, and hey, they more than made up for it with the Voynov pick in the 2nd round.

And to top that off, maybe they got themselves a big coup when they swung that deal with the Oilers on draft day to move up to select Zykov.

Time will tell. But we can safely say that after going through two NHL organizations that Colten Teubert is another Joe Rullier/Mathieu Biron of a big guy enjoying success in juniors and being nothing more than a bum at the pro level.

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Old
07-02-2013, 08:58 PM
  #407
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It's just a weird deal, it will stick with them like Pronger's. He isn't a bad player, but he isn't what he once was and they sign him till he is 37. Kind of screams that they are going to trade one of the kids, and I wouldn't be surprised if they flipped off the goal and their defense and trade a kid for a winger instead.
.

And that's exactly why I didn't want this signing If you look at the forwards they have, there is enough talent to produce goals to win. But because those forwards tend to be (thanks to Lavvy's system) weak in their own end, esp on the boards, they give up goals. So they need more to score...and since the Devils exposed their weakness (take away the middle, keep them on the boards) during the playoffs, a lot of teams have been able to shut them down.)

I've tried to discuss this rationally with some o f the more rabid Flyers fans I work with, what's wrong with winning 3-1? Why does it have to be 6-4? Because that formula doesn't work in the playoffs. But they will angrily defend that system and don't understand my plea about goaltending and defense being the biggest part of having a complete and balanced team to contend. (Of course they also don't understand my Kings wallpaper on the computer, the kings SC mug, my photos from the playoffs proudly displayed. And even my MikE Richards 8 x 10 of post celebration scoring on Halak in 2010 is made fun of (because it's MR who they rip to pieces).



And why trade for a center when you have 2 young guys they you drafted. Give them the minutes/experience. For years they've been too heavy at C. With Briere gone, I wanted those kids to move up and get their chance. Spend the money on improving the team on D or in goal.
Now they still have no goalie and there are horrible whispers about Tim Thomas for 2 years. Really? That's the ticket, right? A guy who had weight issues before he hadn't played in over a year and a half.

If you argue that Homer has no clue about Cap management, they will throw in the 'we're fine ,Pronger on LTIR, buyouts.." yeah, that's a great GM who depends on his annual Pronger LTIR $ and buyouts- a gift from the league.

And they still need money...next year Giroux, B Schenn, Coots and read (off the top of my head) all need contracts. Giroux alone will get at least 4 M more.. the Flyers fanatics will argue, but we'll have Kimmo's money. Yeah that covers a part of it, but where is the money for the Vet D that you need to replace Kimmo?
It never ends..>homer never has a map or a compass...

I like Vinnie, and all but he wasn't what the team needed and I don't see how it helps this team to start to form into a contender. For the last couple of years, Kimmo is done at about 60 games or so and worn out by April, and not 100%. Striet isn't good to begin with on D and hasn't been the same since his surgery. Coburn, who I think is overly criticized, is the one guy who by spring they should lean on and they have him on the trading block. And until Lavvy and Homer go, it will be the same formula.

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07-02-2013, 09:02 PM
  #408
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Amen TRH...

I too remember a time when I hoped that the LA Kings could be more like the Philadelphia Flyers. Heh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cabwaylingo View Post
Hartnell - Giroux - Voracek
Schenn - Lecavalier - Simmonds
Gagne - Couturier - Read
Rinaldo - Laughton - Talbot

Kimmo Timonen - Luke Schenn
Mark Streit - Braydon Coburn
Nicklas Grossmann - Andrej Meszaros

Steve Mason
All this time and STILL **** FOR GOALTENDING.

Jesus Flyers. How many more years will it be before you address the actual problem?

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Old
07-02-2013, 09:13 PM
  #409
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cabwaylingo View Post
Hartnell - Giroux - Voracek
Schenn - Lecavalier - Simmonds
Gagne - Couturier - Read
Rinaldo - Laughton - Talbot

Kimmo Timonen - Luke Schenn
Mark Streit - Braydon Coburn
Nicklas Grossmann - Andrej Meszaros

Steve Mason


Actually looks great on paper. I wonder if they'll be able to put it together on the ice though.

I still want us to nab Laughton. PLEASE!

The bolded parts don't look all too great to me. At least the Flyers are entertaining.

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Old
07-02-2013, 09:17 PM
  #410
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Originally Posted by Jason Lewis View Post
The bolded parts don't look all too great to me. At least the Flyers are entertaining.
Their forwards aren't very well recognized for their two way play either (aside from Talbot). Giroux is hit or miss, sometimes he looks disinterested in back checking. Gagne has slowed down and regressed immensely, but looking at their forwards as a whole, they can be outmatched. We saw it when the Devils trounced them the last time they were in the playoffs, and the year before that they were swept aside by the Bruins.

They're a team that always looks great on paper but always disappoints and don't deliver results. It's been that way with the Flyers since the Eric Lindros era.

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Old
07-02-2013, 09:19 PM
  #411
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What's crazy is they could have got Bernier or Schneider if they'd offered more than Read, a 27 year old on an expiring, cheap contract. Read is a good player but when you're dealing with the cap, 1 year isn't enough and he's going to want to get paid after the season is done. By not offering Schenn or Couturier for one of those goalies, they've allowed the Devils to solidify their goaltending for ten years and have bolstered the Leafs. Lecavalier will likely take minutes away from the younger guys. This deal makes absolutely no sense.

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Old
07-02-2013, 09:21 PM
  #412
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I was kind of surprised by the reaction on the flyers board. They believe it's a good signing.

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07-02-2013, 09:21 PM
  #413
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
Their forwards aren't very well recognized for their two way play either (aside from Talbot). Giroux is hit or miss, sometimes he looks disinterested in back checking. Gagne has slowed down and regressed immensely, but looking at their forwards as a whole, they can be outmatched. We saw it when the Devils trounced them the last time they were in the playoffs, and the year before that they were swept aside by the Bruins.

They're a team that always looks great on paper but always disappoints and don't deliver results. It's been that way with the Flyers since the Eric Lindros era.
It looks great if you're looking at offensive numbers. Fancy goals and passes are great and all that but if you're looking for well rounded players, there really aren't any forwards who excel at offense and defence. Couturier and Read, maybe but Couts regressed this year. Giroux is pretty dynamic offensively but defensively he's below average. Maybe Voracek, BSchenn, Simmonds etc. will figure out the defense part at some point but I'm not sure they will learn that under Lavi.

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Old
07-02-2013, 09:23 PM
  #414
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yeah, that's a great GM who depends on his annual Pronger LTIR $ and buyouts- a gift from the league.
Well they are tools in the toolbox. The Flyers don't care about money. They spend all they can, and then find ways to spend more if they want.

Now whether or not a defense will work in the playoffs with two smaller 35+ year old offensive defensemen on it, who combine for $11 million on the cap, with question marks in net, is a different question.

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Old
07-02-2013, 09:25 PM
  #415
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If Scuds doesn't re-sign, Gawd forbid, I was hoping we could reap a young forward from the Flyers, but I'm not even sure we'd be able to afford that. Frattin does NOT inspire confidence in me at all...

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Old
07-02-2013, 09:28 PM
  #416
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I was kind of surprised by the reaction on the flyers board. They believe it's a good signing.
...that's from consuming large amounts of orange koolaid

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Old
07-02-2013, 09:33 PM
  #417
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herby View Post
You have to factor in that Teubert was a d-man and all the great d-man who went immediately after him.

Jessiman is the worst pick in recent memory, no question about it, a forward taken ahead of a bunch of all-star forwards in arguably the best draft of all time. I would stack Teubert up there with any of the other guys you listed though, just so many things about that pick were hideous. Drafting a guy with zero upside based on a need and passing over all-star and even Norris caliber defenders to do it. It's one thing if you swing for the fences and miss like they did with Hickey, in Teubert they were sacrifice bunting and missed. And it only took them a training camp and a single season to realize it.
Meh. It is what it is. You never get ALL the best players in a draft and sometimes you miss. It wasn't like Teubert was a reach, he was taken right around where he was ranked. You can't really fault a team for taking a risk after getting one of the top defensemen in the draft already. The Voinov pick certainly lessens the sting. It's kind of like the Boyle pick in 2003, you are in a position to take a riskier project pick when you already have a great player in Brown in the first round. Most GMs would take that risk in both of those positions I think.

Can you really fault the Kings for not taking Karlson, when looking back if everyone knew he'd be THIS good he would've been a sure fire top 3 pick? He was essentially considered a watered down Doughty or Pietrangelo at that time. You simply can't look back at a draft and say "look at all the players they missed out on that were better" because at the time of the draft a lot of those players aren't considered better than what is taken. How many people looking back wouldn't take Matt Martin, Jason Demers, Andrei Loktionov, Zack Smith, or Adam Henrique sooner than they were selected? Doesn't change the fact that on draft day there were dozens of players considered better than all of them...

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07-02-2013, 09:34 PM
  #418
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...that's from consuming large amounts of orange koolaid
I can tell, Holmgren can do anything because the fans believe in him even though he's screwing the pooch.

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07-02-2013, 09:36 PM
  #419
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I find it hysterical that Teubert was not qualified. I remember immediately being livid with the pick. This wasn't me looking back at what could have been. This was right after the pick was made. Just truly idiotic. And I can't believe anyone thought he had any value, ESPECIALLY Oil fans. I remember some of their fans saying he looked great in his call up blah blah blah. Good one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonySCV View Post

All this time and STILL **** FOR GOALTENDING.

Jesus Flyers. How many more years will it be before you address the actual problem?
Depends on how much longer Snider will be living. Seriously. It's sad. I honestly wonder if anyone will take the GM job once Holmgren is fired.

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07-02-2013, 09:39 PM
  #420
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Originally Posted by TonySCV View Post
Amen TRH...

I too remember a time when I hoped that the LA Kings could be more like the Philadelphia Flyers. Heh.



All this time and STILL **** FOR GOALTENDING.

Jesus Flyers. How many more years will it be before you address the actual problem?
Right. I still think the problem is coaching.. but that leads to Holmgren which leads to Snider. I'm just glad it's not my team.

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Old
07-02-2013, 09:44 PM
  #421
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So a team lacks quality defensive/two-way forwards, an NHL starting goaltender, and quality stay at home defensemen. This team then decides to throw a 5 year contract at a 33 year old with a full NTC, who plays little to no defense, and plays the position in which the organization is strongest at?

.
.
.
.
.

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Old
07-02-2013, 09:46 PM
  #422
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BTW, on the topic of Teubert. You know it wasn't just the Kings who thought highly of him once, right? Look at Bob McKenzie's rankings, which is based heavily on what NHL scouts think.

http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=7125

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/feature/?fid=11473
Quote:
Comparable: Shea Weber

From TSN: The hard-rock defenceman, who draws comparisons to Shea Weber and Adam Foote, is as competitive and feisty a player as there is in this draft. What he lacks in offensive upside, he makes up for with his ferocity and defensive prowess. He relishes the opportunity to go head-to-head with the other teams' top players. By all accounts, there is no love lost between him and Kyle Beach.

From NHL Central Scouting: Colten is a smooth skating defenseman, who can skate the puck out of trouble and can jump up the ice with the puck. Has the ability to take charge of the game.
Hell, look at where The Hockey News had Karlsson ranked, it's hilarious. Even funny to see where they had Voynov ranked.
http://www.insidecollegehockey.com/7..._ranks0640.htm

And here is Central Scouting's rankings from 2008.
http://www.thefourthperiod.com/draft/draftranks08.html

Either way you look at it, things worked out for the Kings in the end with who they ended up with at 2nd overall and with their 2nd round selection. If you think about it, there probably wouldn't be any way possible the Kings would be able to have the team they have no and be able to afford Karlsson. They're lucky Voynov turned out the way he did and accepted a home team discount.

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07-02-2013, 09:49 PM
  #423
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If Scuds doesn't re-sign, Gawd forbid, I was hoping we could reap a young forward from the Flyers, but I'm not even sure we'd be able to afford that. Frattin does NOT inspire confidence in me at all...
How much confidence would you have if before the season started the Kings were guaranteed to not have both Mitchell and Greene all year, and Quick would not be as good as he should be? Probably not predicting 5th place in the conference, almost having home ice in the 1st round, and in the top 10 in GA.

Or if Kopitar and Brown would be MIA for the playoffs. Conference finals are probably out of the question.

If after the last two years you're not willing to give the people running things, in the office or behind the bench, some benefit of the doubt, you're a tough nut to crack.

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07-02-2013, 09:58 PM
  #424
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How much confidence would you have if before the season started the Kings were guaranteed to not have both Mitchell and Greene all year, and Quick would not be as good as he should be? Probably not predicting 5th place in the conference, almost having home ice in the 1st round, and in the top 10 in GA.

Or if Kopitar and Brown would be MIA for the playoffs. Conference finals are probably out of the question.

If after the last two years you're not willing to give the people running things, in the office or behind the bench, some benefit of the doubt, you're a tough nut to crack.
Lombardi got his and everyone else the cup, hats off to him because we all know it was long overdue. But a post cup team is new territory for him, and I think he's going to make some mistakes with trying to build a long term winner. I think he can do it, but it won't be smooth. I'm more worried about some of our top guys, despite getting deep again in the playoffs, most looked pretty bad to mediocre. I questioned their desire to win at times. I'm hoping it was the awkward half season that ****ed with everyone.

We're in a much better spot than A LOT of teams right now though, and I'm thankful for that.

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Old
07-02-2013, 10:02 PM
  #425
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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
You know what I found to be the most bothersome issue with Teubert? The guy was an ass. He allegedly would talk trash to other WHL players, talking about how he's got a pro contract. The guy eventually became a detriment to his own team and he had serious attitude problems. So in the end, he turned out to be a jackass, but thankfully the Kings got something out of him by acquiring Penner, and hey, they more than made up for it with the Voynov pick in the 2nd round.

And to top that off, maybe they got themselves a big coup when they swung that deal with the Oilers on draft day to move up to select Zykov.

Time will tell. But we can safely say that after going through two NHL organizations that Colten Teubert is another Joe Rullier/Mathieu Biron of a big guy enjoying success in juniors and being nothing more than a bum at the pro level.
He looks like a ******...



And a villain...

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