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Pittsburgh signs Kris Letang to extension (8 years, $7.25M per)

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Old
07-02-2013, 07:16 PM
  #751
Mr Jiggyfly
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Originally Posted by Shockmaster View Post
I don't think a lot of people realize how the cap works.
More like people ignore how the cap works so they can feel better when they make stupid comments.

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Old
07-02-2013, 07:20 PM
  #752
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
More like people ignore how the cap works so they can feel better when they make stupid comments.
Yeah, you nailed it. And let's throw in 2014's numbers against 2013's cap and run with it. Cap doom guaranteed! Wait, it can work? Well Letang is only good on offense; $7m range is only for shutdown dmen. What are the characteristics of a shutdown dman with offensive upside? I'm outta here!

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07-02-2013, 07:32 PM
  #753
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Letang's best years are just ahead of him, I see no wrong in locking up an elite defenseman, especially at a fair price considering the market for # 1 Defensemen.

It's not a coincidence that Weber, Suter, Letang, Chara, Keith, and even Campbell are now in the 7m+ salary range for their deals, with Doughty not far behind with making just south of it. All these guys are # 1 Defensemen, and in Campbell's case, easily the best one on Florida's roster regardless. I'm not saying it's a need to have an elite defenseman, but just look at the conference finals of the past year. Letang, Chara, Keith, and Doughty all took part. That's no coincidence. We'll deal with the cap issues as they seem fit, but now we have our core locked up for the next 9 years at the very least. Easier to find role players than # 1 defensemen. Salary cap space doesn't win championships, great players do. I'm just intrigued in seeing the player that Kris Letang can now grow into, as he can still get even better.

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07-02-2013, 07:34 PM
  #754
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I haven't been providing constructive criticism (that would be silly unless you were Ray Shero), I've been rather peaceably giving my opinion.

For argument's sake, let's just say you are correct, I just want to see you trade your 26 year old Norris finalist. Why would you care so much?

Do you fear that I possess some evil powers, that I can warp Shero's mind into doing my bidding, and that only by the forcefulness of your arguments here can you combat and defeat this evil?

Or do you fear that I will sway the masses of Pens fans who've become less than enamored with Letang's inability to handle a good forecheck in the playoffs, and that they'll start a riot in the streets of Pittsburgh bringing down the Shero regime, unless you can throw a wrench into my propaganda machine?

Or are you afraid that if you don't jump to the rescue and set the record straight, that I'll be able to create an anti-Pens consensus, and HFboards will become an inhospitable place for Pens fans everywhere, a place of ridicule and abuse?

You guys always get so defensive about this stuff and it never makes any sense to me. Who cares what some random Flyers fan thinks? Pens fans apparently.

I'll lay it out plainly. My order of preference as to what happens here:

1) Letang leaves as a UFA next summer and the Pens get squat.
2) Letang gets traded for a crappy package that does nothing to improve the team down the line.
3) Letang signs for a cap hit that makes it difficult for the Pens to ice a team that could win the Stanley Cup, wasting away the prime years of the two best players in the world and making my life far more tolerable. (Potential for future "I-told-you-so's and other gloating as an added bonus.)
4) Letang gets traded for a package that allows the Pens to set up a deep and balanced juggernaut with a young frontline two-way number one defenseman and the two best players in the world in their primes. (This is what I think they should look into, in case you didn't notice.)
5) Letang signs for a smaller cap hit that enables the Pens to pair their offensively gifted defenseman with a frontline shutdown defender, making my life hell as my Flyers must face a deep and balanced juggernaut that features the best 2 players in the world in their primes.
6) Letang stays with the Pens at any cap hit but figures out the defensive side of things and moves into the Doughty/Weber/Chara/Keith tier of defensemen.





Exactly what do you find objectionable in any of that?

To put it in terms a child could understand: He's really good. There must be some benefit to playing with the two best players in the world, but he'd still be really good without them. The end.

But I feel like what you actually understood from that was: Letang sucks, he only gets points because he plays with Crosby and Malkin.

Have you figured out yet that I was never arguing the point you think I'm arguing? Looking back, part of that is probably my fault for intervening in an argument you were having with someone else, but still...there's no argument to be had there. We essentially agree on this: Letang is a great offensive defenseman who would score lots of points even if he wasn't playing with Crosby & Malkin. We essentially disagree (though I'm still uncertain of this) that there must be some benefit to playing with Crosby and Malkin. You seem insistent on wanting to do some incomplete and faulty statistical analysis that possesses no meaningful context whatsoever to "prove" that there isn't a benefit to be had from playing with Crosby & Malkin (really?), meanwhile I have no desire to belabor the point.



If it's that, then why bother responding? You could all have easily let my little opinion die amongst all of the other opinions in the thread, buried deep in the archives for an eternity. But instead you guys respond vehemently every time anyone has an opinion you dislike, your vehemence only seems to grow if you can't quickly dismiss it as trolling or jealousy.

I'm fine with anyone who holds a different opinion, I've said so ad nauseum. I've never been trying to "win" an argument, I just expressed my opinion and I was IMMEDIATELY jumped on by a bunch of Pens fans who wanted me to "prove" my opinion, which is absurd on it's face. All I've ever done in this thread is explain my thinking, "proving" anything seems a childish and futile quest. You know what I haven't done? I've never asked any of the Pens fans who feel so strongly about this to "prove" their opinions, because who gives a ****?

You feel like you can win it all with Letang as your number 1 dman, I'm not so sure. We can now both go about our lives happily since he's signed his contract.
Rebuttals that break down your argument point-by-point don't seem to agree with you. Sorry you chose to go off on a spiel about "defensiveness" instead of trying to justify your curious conclusion (need for shutdown d despite having Michalek in 2012, Boston loss having nothing to do with defense, etc.).

But Letang is signed to his 7.25 mil per deal now, so we're both happy.

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Old
07-02-2013, 08:15 PM
  #755
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Wow. Settled so soon?

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07-02-2013, 08:25 PM
  #756
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Subban can smell the money already

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07-02-2013, 08:33 PM
  #757
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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Hope that works out for you Pittsburgh.
How can it NOT work out? It's the quintessential win/win deal.

If Letang goes to another level, then the Pens win by having an absolute value deal long term.

If Letang stays at his present level, then how hard will it be for Ray Shero to move THAT contact? 12 teams on the NTC list means there are 17 potential bidders.

Do you honestly think Ray Shero would have ANY problem getting a bidding war going among those 17 teams with Letang under THIS contract OR that the price wouldn't be a high end prospect HIGHER than it was just five days ago?

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07-02-2013, 09:00 PM
  #758
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
How can it NOT work out? It's the quintessential win/win deal.

If Letang goes to another level, then the Pens win by having an absolute value deal long term.

If Letang stays at his present level, then how hard will it be for Ray Shero to move THAT contact? 12 teams on the NTC list means there are 17 potential bidders.

Do you honestly think Ray Shero would have ANY problem getting a bidding war going among those 17 teams with Letang under THIS contract OR that the price wouldn't be a high end prospect HIGHER than it was just five days ago?
Yeah I agree, I figured pens would trade him as price seems steep. They didn't trade him at draft or prior to signing because teams weren't offering enough for him with 1 year on existing contract. Now teams will offer more if they really want him. I like letang, but get frustrated as everyone else when he f's up, but he's only 26,. He can learn from those f's and I do believe he will be an elite defenseman. I hope cap goes up so we can afford to have more talent and skill supporting our big 3.

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Old
07-02-2013, 09:42 PM
  #759
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
How can it NOT work out? It's the quintessential win/win deal.

If Letang goes to another level, then the Pens win by having an absolute value deal long term.

If Letang stays at his present level, then how hard will it be for Ray Shero to move THAT contact? 12 teams on the NTC list means there are 17 potential bidders.

Do you honestly think Ray Shero would have ANY problem getting a bidding war going among those 17 teams with Letang under THIS contract OR that the price wouldn't be a high end prospect HIGHER than it was just five days ago?
To be fair I think its very reasonable. The term is what kills it for me, honestly. You've accounted for 2 scenarios but have ignored a 3rd. What if Letang regresses? What if he dogs it now that he got paid?

He's definitely a buyout threat for the future. But for today and winning now? Great value that won't hurt the cap as much as people are saying it will.

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07-02-2013, 09:55 PM
  #760
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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
To be fair I think its very reasonable. The term is what kills it for me, honestly. You've accounted for 2 scenarios but have ignored a 3rd. What if Letang regresses? What if he dogs it now that he got paid?

He's definitely a buyout threat for the future. But for today and winning now? Great value that won't hurt the cap as much as people are saying it will.
I'd be more concerned about stagnating than anything.

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07-02-2013, 09:55 PM
  #761
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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
To be fair I think its very reasonable. The term is what kills it for me, honestly. You've accounted for 2 scenarios but have ignored a 3rd. What if Letang regresses? What if he dogs it now that he got paid?

He's definitely a buyout threat for the future. But for today and winning now? Great value that won't hurt the cap as much as people are saying it will.
I'd say a 26 year old Norris candidate, who's been in the top 10 in Norris voting the past 3 years, with an insane work ethic and signed through his prime as about as safe a bet as there is on that front.

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07-02-2013, 10:05 PM
  #762
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
I'd say a 26 year old Norris candidate, who's been in the top 10 in Norris voting the past 3 years, with an insane work ethic and signed through his prime as about as safe a bet as there is on that front.
And bet they did.

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07-02-2013, 10:10 PM
  #763
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Bob Errey just said he thinks Letang's defense is better than his offense. He's an employee of the Penguins as well as an asshat, correct?

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07-02-2013, 11:04 PM
  #764
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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
To be fair I think its very reasonable. The term is what kills it for me, honestly. You've accounted for 2 scenarios but have ignored a 3rd. What if Letang regresses? What if he dogs it now that he got paid?

He's definitely a buyout threat for the future. But for today and winning now? Great value that won't hurt the cap as much as people are saying it will.
Sooo, never sign anyone to long term deals? That's a risk with pretty much any deal.

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07-02-2013, 11:11 PM
  #765
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Congrats Pitt fans on keeping your guy locked up.

Anything come about what was holding up the signing? Letang not being moved before the new contract kicks in or was that BS?

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07-02-2013, 11:14 PM
  #766
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Congrats Pitt fans on keeping your guy locked up.

Anything come about what was holding up the signing? Letang not being moved before the new contract kicks in or was that BS?
Supposedly, but that was really only being reported by Rossi so it was probably all bull. Who cares happy and hopeful to see him keep improving into something really special.

I said it when he was a rookie that I could totally see Letang turing into a Scott Niedermayer type of player all indications show that he is still on that development path!

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07-02-2013, 11:18 PM
  #767
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Originally Posted by Gert B Frobe View Post
Bob Errey just said he thinks Letang's defense is better than his offense. He's an employee of the Penguins as well as an asshat, correct?
Errey is employed by Root Sports, not the Penguins.

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07-02-2013, 11:21 PM
  #768
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Originally Posted by Gert B Frobe View Post
Bob Errey just said he thinks Letang's defense is better than his offense. He's an employee of the Penguins as well as an asshat, correct?
Cheerleader, world class clown and situational asshat, sure. He has his lucid hockey moments also, although he is quick to fend them away with a looong stick and detours into soliloquies on food and beverages.

Either way, Letang is probably/likely/hopefully going to be worth every penny when the cap goes up again, but clearly this one is the Pens taking a risk because Shero didn't have much in the way of alternatives. Fair enough. Happy we have him on a long term contract and happy we didn't cave in on the NMC.

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07-02-2013, 11:49 PM
  #769
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Cheerleader, world class clown and situational asshat, sure. He has his lucid hockey moments also, although he is quick to fend them away with a looong stick and detours into soliloquies on food and beverages.

Either way, Letang is probably/likely/hopefully going to be worth every penny when the cap goes up again, but clearly this one is the Pens taking a risk because Shero didn't have much in the way of alternatives. Fair enough. Happy we have him on a long term contract and happy we didn't cave in on the NMC.
"he thinks Letang's defense is better than his offense."

If bibster was talking about Letang's offense on the power play he would be 100% correct!

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07-03-2013, 12:01 AM
  #770
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crosby malkin and letang takes up most of the team salary...

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07-03-2013, 12:10 AM
  #771
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Sooo, never sign anyone to long term deals? That's a risk with pretty much any deal.
Take a peek at the ironically short nature of long term deals.

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07-03-2013, 10:17 AM
  #772
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2014-15, the Pens will have 8 guys making $48MM on a $67-68MM cap. That's alot.

However, by 2016-17, Crosby, Malkin and Letang will make up only 35% of a potential $73MM cap. They will also all be 3 years older and still in prime of their careers.

Letang is getting paid to be a #1, top 3 in the league, Norris finalist guy every year until he is 35. That's a tall order.

Hopefully, the Pens love their prospects and fix their goaltending - otherwise none of this means much.

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07-03-2013, 10:59 AM
  #773
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And bet they did.
The alternatives were much, much bigger gambles.

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07-03-2013, 11:03 AM
  #774
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2014-15, the Pens will have 8 guys making $48MM on a $67-68MM cap. That's alot.

However, by 2016-17, Crosby, Malkin and Letang will make up only 35% of a potential $73MM cap. They will also all be 3 years older and still in prime of their careers.

Letang is getting paid to be a #1, top 3 in the league, Norris finalist guy every year until he is 35. That's a tall order.


Hopefully, the Pens love their prospects and fix their goaltending - otherwise none of this means much.
Uh, he is? Letang has the 3rd highest cap hit among defensemen right now. Somehow, I don't think he'll hold that ranking past Subban's extension next summer, let alone 'til he's 35.

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07-03-2013, 11:49 AM
  #775
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i think people lose track of the fact that letang plays a norris caliber game most of the time. he just looks so spectacularly bad when he fails that it's jarring. i have to believe that his miscues are largely mental, which is why the decision to retain the full coaching staff that to this point has been unable to eliminate or at least mitigate the uglier parts of letang's game so frustrating.

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