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[PHI] Flyers sign Vincent Lecavalier (5 years, $4.5M, full NMC)

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Old
07-02-2013, 11:18 PM
  #26
MSSLYNX
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Originally Posted by Pravi83Oil View Post
Im assuming Philly is looking to move some forwards for D/G help then?

Giroux/Lecavalier/Schen/Couturier/Laughton/Talbot all down the middle

Hartnell/Voracek/Read/Simmonds/Gagne/Fedetenko/Rinaldo on the wings
Talbot winger but yeah we might see a nice hockey trade and also a salary dump on our friend Andrej who got the memo when they got Streit.

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Old
07-02-2013, 11:21 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by SteelFish87 View Post
Flyers wish they had an average D
Tell me about it. Careful not to talk $$ cause would be irrelevant. I know it is expensive. That is Comcast dept.

But a bottom 5 d? Bottom 10? Drop the number and we could check that.

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Old
07-02-2013, 11:21 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by SteelFish87 View Post
Flyers wish they had an average D
Mmm so do the Pens in that case.
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Originally Posted by Kris Chreider View Post
Understatement of the century.

Biron is better than Bryzgalov.
What?

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Old
07-02-2013, 11:24 PM
  #29
blinds
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Holy Jesus, I just skimmed the last 40 pages and the SAME DEBUNKED ARGUMENTS KEEP POPPING UP.

So people, keep these facts in mind:

1. FLYERS ARE NOT IN CAP TROUBLE. They have 14 forwards and 9 defensemen on the roster. Moving Meszaros, knocking a rookie forward and LTIR Pronger opens up nearly $10m to sign the only hole, a goalie. They have to be cap compliant before they LTIR Pronger, but it's very viable as long as they get a goalie for under $5m.

2. They won't be in cap trouble next year. The cap is going up and Timonen's $6m is coming off the books. Schenn won't have a raise, Couturier won't cost too much, Read may or may not return and Giroux will get whatever Giroux needs.

3. Lecavalier did address a need. Our 5-on-5 scoring was pathetic last year, mainly due to overeliance on young players and an inability for the back end to move the puck up the ice. Streit addresses the puck-moving need while VL addresses the reliance on inconsistent youth.

4. Flyers don't have an atrocious defense. What they're missing is a #1D, but instead we have 3 balanced pairings. Schenn, Coburn and Grossmann are all very good shutdown defensemen, and won't be asked to play outside their role again (Coburn). Also everyone is healthy. We play a run-and-gun style, but you can be sure you won't see the same terrible breakdowns with no more Gervais, Foster and other various AHL-quality defenders.

5. Goaltending will be addressed. As mentioned before, we have the cap space and we can probably expect to see Thomas signed. Most importantly, we don't have the blackhole that is Bryzgalov that makes his teammates want to give up because he can't stop a beach ball.

6. Yes, we have a lot of centers. Forwards are versatile, many can play both center and wing. Expect to see Schenn on LW. If for whatever reason Laughton isn't 4C, he could play wing. Talbot and Read already play wing. Even Giroux could play wing. We have options and aren't being forced to trade anyone.

Please, don't panic and realize that we didn't ruin our future, we did address our needs this offseason and will address our final glaring need (goaltending) once FA actually starts.

No, we still don't have a 1D to replace Pronger, but between Timonen and Streit we have good leadership on the back end, and 3 very balanced pairings.

There is an absolutely dumbfounding amount of misinformation surrounding the Flyers and people don't seem to be able to listen to reason.


Last edited by blinds: 07-02-2013 at 11:36 PM.
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Old
07-02-2013, 11:26 PM
  #30
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the myth that lecavalier is a good defensive player is hilarious.


He's never been a good defensive player lol

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07-02-2013, 11:28 PM
  #31
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Really don't see how our D is that bad.
Timonen-Schenn
Coburn-Streit
Meszaros/Grosmann-Gustafsson
Looks pretty solid to me. Penguins fans have absolutely zero room to crack jokes, however. Rangers fans? Go right ahead.

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Old
07-02-2013, 11:30 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by blinds View Post
Holy Jesus, I just skimmed the last 40 pages and the SAME DEBUNKED ARGUMENTS KEEP POPPING UP.

So people, keep these facts in mind:

1. FLYERS ARE NOT IN CAP TROUBLE. They have 14 forwards and 9 defensemen on the roster. Moving Meszaros, knocking off two rookie forwards and LTIR Pronger opens up $10m to sign the only hole, a goalie.

2. They won't be in cap trouble next year. The cap is going up and Timonen's $6m is coming off the books. Schenn won't have a raise, Couturier won't cost too much, Read may or may not return and Giroux will get whatever Giroux needs.

3. Lecavalier did address a need. Our 5-on-5 scoring was pathetic last year, mainly due to overeliance on young players and an inability for the back end to move the puck up the ice. Streit addresses the puck-moving need as well.

4. Flyers don't have an atrocious defense. What they're missing is a #1D, but instead we have 3 balanced lines. Schenn, Coburn and Grossmann are all very good shutdown defensemen, and won't be asked to play outside their role again (Coburn). Also everyone is healthy.

5. Goaltending will be addressed. As mentioned before, we have the cap space and we can probably expect to see Thomas signed. Most importantly, we don't have the blackhole that is Bryzgalov that makes his teammates want to give up because he can't stop a beach ball.

6. Yes, we have a lot of centers. Forwards are versatile, many can play both center and wing. Expect to see Schenn on LW. Even Giroux could play wing. We have options and aren't being forced to trade anyone.

Please, don't panic and realize that we didn't ruin our future, we did address our needs this offseason and will address our final glaring need (goaltending) once FA actually starts.

No, we still don't have a 1D to replace Pronger, but between Timonen and Streit we have good leadership on the back end, and 3 very balanced pairings.

There is an absolutely dumbfounding amount of misinformation surrounding the Flyers and people don't seem to be able to listen to reason.
Thanks for your time. I'm sure your post is already buried under one liners. They dont read when too long. They do not dialogue. They joke about and go away. Pens fans particularly active, not sure why. Habs fans in total disbelief.
6. Thats the biggest problem right there: Too many centers.

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Old
07-02-2013, 11:30 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by StevensCakeBakerBacker View Post
That must be why NSH wins the Cup every year.
They never do have the best in the league.

Last year they were one of the worst and which is why they had the 4th overall pick.

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Old
07-02-2013, 11:30 PM
  #34
Kris Chreider
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Originally Posted by DeflatedFootball7 View Post
Mmm so do the Pens in that case.


What?
**** I've been out if it for a while. Didn't realize Mason's your starter now.

My point is still valid about Mason, too.

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07-02-2013, 11:31 PM
  #35
MSSLYNX
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Originally Posted by Raym11 View Post
the myth that lecavalier is a good defensive player is hilarious.


He's never been a good defensive player lol
You can read the plus minus stat pretty well. Is that it or something else?

A floater? Afraid of the boards? Slow? Not a big hockey IQ?

Giving you options here.

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07-02-2013, 11:34 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Pez68 View Post
Giroux, Voracek, Hartnell? Sure, they are pretty good defensively.

Schenn? Simmonds? Lecavalier? Play good two-way hockey? Uhh, sure. Have you watched Vinny the last couple seasons?

Philly last year was a train wreck 5 on 5. They were terrible in their defensive zone, and I don't see how they fixed that for 2013-2014...
they were a train wreck 5 on 5.

With Coburn, Mez and Gustafson out of the line up Kimmo was the only dman that could move the puck. On top of that Bryz was a disaster handling the puck. Teams would just dump and pin them down. When Mason played you could see the difference in the way the d played. Hopefully, they pick up a goalie that can handle the puck some.

Vinny doesn't have to be great on d, he just has to win FOs in his own zone which he did at 54% clip and be able to make a pass out of his own end.

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Old
07-02-2013, 11:35 PM
  #37
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Terrible move by Holmgren, locking up a 33, soon to be 34 year old to a 5 year deal with a full NMC to boot.

The C depth was absolutely fine as is. What Flyers needed was a better bottom six and D.

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07-02-2013, 11:37 PM
  #38
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I don't think the Lightning should have bought him out this year. His legs are still good for another year or two and he could've been a 20 goal scorer for them.

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07-02-2013, 11:38 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by JS19 View Post
I can't even see what's wrong with this deal, considering Philly is getting another good faceoff guy and a relatively good offensive player. Also helps that he's a leader.

The people saying that you need defense/goaltending to win are grossly overestimating that. You need a balance of both defense and goaltending AND offense. You don't win games by only stopping a puck, you need to score too.
Yes, but their offense was honestly just fine. Who do you think they would rather have: a 4.5M forward on an already strong forward core or a 4.5M goalie or defenseman on a team that desperately needs one of the 2.

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07-02-2013, 11:42 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Dark Knight View Post
Terrible move by Holmgren, locking up a 33, soon to be 34 year old to a 5 year deal with a full NMC to boot.

The C depth was absolutely fine as is. What Flyers needed was a better bottom six and D.
April 21st is around the corner? How soon is soon for you? You are the greatest my friend.

Yeah. Why improve? Silly idea.

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07-02-2013, 11:42 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by MSSLYNX View Post
True. You dont see it.

5 on 5 goals for has been a force for Philly. Last 3 years including this one btw: 19, 2 and 6. Thats top tier my friend.

5 on 5 goals against: 13, 12 and 23: 2nd tier. Could be better but "train wreck" looks fishy.

Got to try again but a little harder.
How am I not seeing it? I was referring to last season, as that's the most obvious comparison to make, as it's the closest team to what they currently have...

They were a train wreck 5 on 5? True. 83 goals for(19th) 96 goals against(23rd). Getting outscored 5 on 5 is never a good thing.

They were terrible in their defensive zone? True. 96 goals against at even strength(23rd).

Their PK was good, but when you are shorthanded more than any other team in the NHL, it better be.

Basically you just threw out stats that prove my post to be true, and said I don't see it?

I mean, you use stats from the last three years, why? Yeah, comparing the team that had Carter, Richards, Pronger, Leino, JVR, Carle, and Briere on it makes sense when talking about the 2013-2014 Flyers who will have none of them? And I don't see it?

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07-02-2013, 11:42 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Dark Knight View Post
Terrible move by Holmgren, locking up a 33, soon to be 34 year old to a 5 year deal with a full NMC to boot.

The C depth was absolutely fine as is. What Flyers needed was a better bottom six and D.
Gagne - Couturier - Read
Talbot - Laughton - McGinn

Certainly a better bottom 6 than last year without the need to change anything, provided Gagne is resigned.

Our D did get better: we signed Streit which addressed our lack of puck moving and lets Coburn go back to his more comfortable defensive responsibilities. We no longer have Gervais and Foster in our starting line up. Everyone is healthy and hopefully stays that way. Chances are we don't have the abomination that happened last season and forced us to ice 13 different defensemen. Timonen also has less pressure and minutes with Streit to share the load.

But hey, none of that matters, right? Let's just forget that and assume we changed nothing from last season.

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07-02-2013, 11:44 PM
  #43
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You know what's really funny? People on this board saying Schenn was a 5-6D/scratch D, but one season later with the Flyers and I see people putting him on the top pairing. I watched a lot of Schenn last year, he was good, but he wasn't great and he sure as hell isn't anywhere near to a 2D. Still has big time lapses in judgement and occasions where he handles the puck like a grenade.

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07-02-2013, 11:46 PM
  #44
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Yes, but their offense was honestly just fine. Who do you think they would rather have: a 4.5M forward on an already strong forward core or a 4.5M goalie or defenseman on a team that desperately needs one of the 2.
The second part is not ruled out. Goalie is coming and d will be fine minus 1 salary dump.

69th point getter is 1st line material but for us it will be 2nd line. Loving it.

Stay tune for more.

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07-02-2013, 11:48 PM
  #45
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You know what's really funny? People on this board saying Schenn was a 5-6D/scratch D, but one season later with the Flyers and I see people putting him on the top pairing. I watched a lot of Schenn last year, he was good, but he wasn't great and he sure as hell isn't anywhere near to a 2D. Still has big time lapses in judgement and occasions where he handles the puck like a grenade.


could have just stopped there....

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07-02-2013, 11:49 PM
  #46
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How am I not seeing it? I was referring to last season, as that's the most obvious comparison to make, as it's the closest team to what they currently have...

They were a train wreck 5 on 5? True. 83 goals for(19th) 96 goals against(23rd). Getting outscored 5 on 5 is never a good thing.

They were terrible in their defensive zone? True. 96 goals against at even strength(23rd).

Their PK was good, but when you are shorthanded more than any other team in the NHL, it better be.

Basically you just threw out stats that prove my post to be true, and said I don't see it?

I mean, you use stats from the last three years, why? Yeah, comparing the team that had Carter, Richards, Pronger, Leino, JVR, Carle, and Briere on it makes sense when talking about the 2013-2014 Flyers who will have none of them? And I don't see it?
Just sayin it is not a recurrent problem. 19th and 23rd, just last year's numbers is not train wreck. 30 teams in this league. Not good enough. Of course. Missed the playoffs.

Curious: Are we out of the playoffs again? Our competition improved more than we did? Some yes, most no.

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07-02-2013, 11:50 PM
  #47
binop7
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could have just stopped there....
Haha bravo.

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07-02-2013, 11:52 PM
  #48
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I can't even see what's wrong with this deal, considering Philly is getting another good faceoff guy and a relatively good offensive player. Also helps that he's a leader.

The people saying that you need defense/goaltending to win are grossly overestimating that. You need a balance of both defense and goaltending AND offense. You don't win games by only stopping a puck, you need to score too.
Lecavalier doesn't make the Flyers worse. It just doesn't improve the areas they need improvement in the most and takes away valuable cap space.

Who knows though. The team trading away Carter and Richards should tell you all you need to know about Phily's brass.

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07-02-2013, 11:52 PM
  #49
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You know what's really funny? People on this board saying Schenn was a 5-6D/scratch D, but one season later with the Flyers and I see people putting him on the top pairing. I watched a lot of Schenn last year, he was good, but he wasn't great and he sure as hell isn't anywhere near to a 2D. Still has big time lapses in judgement and occasions where he handles the puck like a grenade.
Teams do not pair their guys 1-2, 3-4, 5-6. Sure you knew that.
So putting Schenn with Timonen does not mean Schenn is our 2nd best. Frankly i dont know how to rank our top 4. Grossman and Gustafsson are 5-6 for sure but the others look all like 2nd pairing type guys. I must be wrong. No clear number 1 for sure.

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07-02-2013, 11:53 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by MSSLYNX View Post
Teams do not pair their guys 1-2, 3-4, 5-6. Sure you knew that.
So putting Schenn with Timonen does not mean Schenn is our 2nd best. Frankly i dont know how to rank our top 4. Grossman and Gustafsson are 5-6 for sure but the others look all like 2nd pairing type guys. I must be wrong. No clear number 1 for sure.
If Schenn is on the top pairing he'll be among the D with the most ice time. That's a recipe for disaster. Play Schenn more than 20 mins a game and you get in trouble.

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