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Habs trade Danny Kristo to NYR for Christian Thomas

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Old
07-02-2013, 10:27 PM
  #626
btfbird
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Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post


That's all I found for him from the AHL.
After seeing this scrap, I feel better about the trade.

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Old
07-02-2013, 10:30 PM
  #627
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Originally Posted by ChoseLa View Post
And that's it's AHL rookie season.
Hopefully he can keep the pace next year with the Bulldogs. Furthermore, the Dogs will be a better team. Was he playing on the 2nd line this year?

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07-02-2013, 10:31 PM
  #628
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I saw Thomas play with the whale last year and the good news is that he started off very slow and then came on. He also played very little PP which is his forte. He's got a great one timer. The bad news is he doesn't play like his father who had an edge to his game, and a net presence.

Ranger fans fell in love with him mostly because of his pedigree and his one timers, I think that's why they are upset, not because of what he has done in the rangers organization. I thought in traverse city two years ago that he looked better than Carl Hagelin, but with the Whale this year he looked like he had problems adjusting to the pro-game, but that's natural.

Apparently you guys like midgets and the rangers like headcases.

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07-02-2013, 10:32 PM
  #629
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
I am thinking .5 PPG in the NHL , replacing Gionta who will be shipped back to NJ after Clarkson walks.
Replacing Gionta with the likes of Thomas, that's why I would of preferred getting nothing for Kristo.

I'm sure he's a nice guy and a hard worker with talent but I have zero interest in this guy. The worst part is deep down I know Therrien will play him instead of a player that we need to make our team go farther in the playoffs.

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Old
07-02-2013, 10:34 PM
  #630
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Apparently you guys like midgets and the rangers like headcases.

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Old
07-02-2013, 10:38 PM
  #631
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At first I was a Kristo fan, but I think he kind of stalled in the development of his skillset, physical abilities and intelligence. I mean in the end I was seeing the same Kristo than at the start of NCAA (he obviously was better and upgraded some parts of his game, but nothing major, especially for a guy of his age in this league). Then, in the AHL I wasn't really thrilled with what I saw and what was reported. Since, one of the most important thing for a prospect IMO is the development of the skillset, physical abilities and intelligence of the game during the years I wasn't seeing too much in him (a pretty good example is Gallagher).

The only reason I stayed optimist was the enthusiasm about Kristo of some guys I really respect here, like Whitesnake.

In the last 2 years I wasn't really a fan of him and I was open to a trade, so why not we'll see I don't really know Thomas much.

Finally, I'm not even talking about his issues thing, which probably have been a factor.

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07-02-2013, 10:39 PM
  #632
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This trade is like algebra.

I might be be able to figure it out, but I don`t want to figure it out.


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07-02-2013, 11:00 PM
  #633
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Originally Posted by Souffle View Post
Well, it's about the right mix of players. It's not just size. You have big guys who play small and small guys who play big. Now, I'm not saying I like the chances of winning with a bunch of angry dwarves from Middle Earth (who can play hockey, of course), but there's more to it than measurement.

I'll use Koivu as an example because I was never as big a fan as some were. But the dude was ferocious in the playoffs. You go to war with him, who cares about his height and size. We bring up the Ottawa series as proof of the Habs' softness, but the fact remains that Montreal generally outplayed Ottawa but got stung by injuries and game-changing saves and unlucky breaks. I would not retool the team based solely on the Ottawa series. Seriously, no injury to Emelin and Eller, a healthy Prust, Pacioretty and White, a one-year more mature Tinordi, and how OMG! soft are the Habs really?

My obscure point is that there's always room for talent, even soft guys (which Thomas doesn't seem to be), so long as you get the right mix. I don't think adding Thomas in place of Kristo makes a big difference to that mix. It's not like the Habs traded a Tom Wilson-prospect for Thomas. If there are serious core structural issues with the Habs' size etc, I just don't think this trade has much bearing one way or another.

/end ramble
agree completely with you... but right now, both in the NHL & in our prospect pool, we lack that "right mix".

If you're going to trade one of your top prospects (and Kristo, like him or not, was still one of our top-10, maybe even top-5, prospects), why do it in a swap that brings back a very similar player in style of play, physical stature and likely role...

doesn't make much sense in that regard, unless they are sold on Thomas being a far better bet at being a vastly superior NHLer than Kristo will be, yet very little in either's recent career would seem to indicate that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grant McCagg View Post
Lineups change my friend.....you can't seriously expect Dd and Gionta to be here for much longer. Gallagher was an NHL rookie so you couldn't expect him to have a fantastic playoff..... that said, are you saying he wasn't effective versus Ottawa? One of our better forwards? But..he's 5-8..how can that be? Pageau played well against us and is 5-9..how can that be? A 5-9 guy won the Conn Smythe..again..how is that possible? Who were perhaps our best players in our last long playoff run? Cammy and Gionta...hmmm.

Check out Detroit's roster over the past five years for one. It may shock you how many players were under 6-0, even on their Cup winner.
Rafalski
Maltby
Draper
Helm
Lebda
Zetterberg
Datsyuk
Hudler

Eight players under 6-0. Again - how can this be????? Simple answer - because a player's height means jack squat!!!!
agree with most of your point, except for the bolded part.

Individually, yes, a player's height is far from a strong indicator to their effectiveness. then again, all other things being equal (which they never are), a physically stronger/larger athlete has the obvious advantage in a physical sport.

But as a collective, even those cup winning Red Wings teams, had a mixture of players including some important players who had large physical frames.

as an organization, we are undersized at every position, and as a league, the style of game that is tacitly promoted in the playoffs is one that favors players/teams that can play a physical brand of hockey.

doesn't mean that highly skilled and/or gritty players of smaller stature can't succeed or even excel come playoff time... but it certainly helps to have the support of some larger framed, physical players who can both stick up for the little guys and draw the attention/wear down the oppositions physically imposing players.

right now, we lack that aspect considerably, especially in our top-9 & top-4.

trading a solid prospect for a very similar prospect that is quite redundant in terms of organizational depth (collberg, holland, bozon, hudon, macmillan, lehkonen, reway, andrighetto... all smallish framed offensively gifted prospects) just doesn't make much sense.

Thomas, as an acquisition in a vacuum, is perfectly fine... just seemingly unnecessary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
What frustrates me most on a personal level is watching Kristo develop for 5 long years and then cutting him loose just when he's finally starting his pro career.

What frustrates me on another level is failing to address a need in trading him. Instead of diversifying our prospect pool or even getting an NHL vet, we just got more of the same. And, arguably, worse of the same.
these are 2 good points as well...

i wonder what Timmins thinks about this move? Unless he had soured on Danny as well, wouldn't be surprised if he's pretty pissed. Kristo, after the setbacks related to his poor decision making, finally had the kind of dominant NCAA season you'd like to see a future NHLer put together. Not getting the chance to see him have at least 1 year as a pro before moving him for a lateral acquisition has gotta be frustrating to the guy responsible for picking him in the first place.

i also wonder how much they shopped him around? Was Thomas a target they went after, and reluctantly agreed to give up Kristo for, or was Thomas the best offer they found for a kid they simply wanted off of their hands?

i'm sure, like with McDo, we'll get some insight into that somewhere down the road....

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Old
07-02-2013, 11:07 PM
  #634
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Originally Posted by BeliveauFan4ever View Post
This trade is like algebra.

I might be be able to figure it out, but I don`t want to figure it out.

so you don't care? why are you even here then? at least do your research before you

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Old
07-02-2013, 11:15 PM
  #635
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I don't really care that we traded Kristo... but the return seem horrible I don't care how great Thomas is he not good enough to be in how top 6 and because of is size doesn't really seem like he will have a long carrer as a bottom 6 guy... This isn't good asset management... What could we get for Thomas if we try to flip up to a other team my guess is less than we got of gotten for Kristo.

It doesn't matther how much of a head case or how bad you want to move him you need to squeeze everything you can possibly can out of that player, if you don't think he will help on the ice or doesn't fix in your plan you need get something that will help your team or fix your plan.

Nothing indicate that Thomas is really a upgade over any one in are deep chart and doesn't really bring anything different... I rather have a draft pick or someone like Pavel Buchnevich or Anthony Duclair which might not be any better then Thomas but has the potentiel to be more...

Looking at are trade history we clearly have probleme getting appropriate return for our asset, we always seem to sell low and buy high...

Beside the Cole trade I don't remember getting a really good return in a trade since Roy was traded and even then we manged to piss away that 3 round pick...

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Old
07-02-2013, 11:15 PM
  #636
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Originally Posted by Jmac1160 View Post
so you don't care? why are you even here then? at least do your research before you
Easy fella. I think the trade sucks. Sorry it wasn`t obvious to you.

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Old
07-02-2013, 11:25 PM
  #637
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Originally Posted by calder candidate View Post
I don't really care that we traded Kristo... but the return seem horrible I don't care how great Thomas is he not good enough to be in how top 6 and because of is size doesn't really seem like he will have a long carrer as a bottom 6 guy... This isn't good asset management... What could we get for Thomas if we try to flip up to a other team my guess is less than we got of gotten for Kristo.

It doesn't matther how much of a head case or how bad you want to move him you need to squeeze everything you can possibly can out of that player, if you don't think he will help on the ice or doesn't fix in your plan you need get something that will help your team or fix your plan.

Nothing indicate that Thomas is really a upgade over any one in are deep chart and doesn't really bring anything different... I rather have a draft pick or someone like Pavel Buchnevich or Anthony Duclair which might not be any better then Thomas but has the potentiel to be more...

Looking at are trade history we clearly have probleme getting appropriate return for our asset, we always seem to sell low and buy high...

Beside the Cole trade I don't remember getting a really good return in a trade since Roy was traded and even then we manged to piss away that 3 round pick...
Holy hell...

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Old
07-02-2013, 11:27 PM
  #638
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calder candidate View Post
I don't really care that we traded Kristo... but the return seem horrible I don't care how great Thomas is he not good enough to be in how top 6 and because of is size doesn't really seem like he will have a long carrer as a bottom 6 guy... This isn't good asset management... What could we get for Thomas if we try to flip up to a other team my guess is less than we got of gotten for Kristo.

It doesn't matther how much of a head case or how bad you want to move him you need to squeeze everything you can possibly can out of that player, if you don't think he will help on the ice or doesn't fix in your plan you need get something that will help your team or fix your plan.

Nothing indicate that Thomas is really a upgade over any one in are deep chart and doesn't really bring anything different... I rather have a draft pick or someone like Pavel Buchnevich or Anthony Duclair which might not be any better then Thomas but has the potentiel to be more...

Looking at are trade history we clearly have probleme getting appropriate return for our asset, we always seem to sell low and buy high...

Beside the Cole trade I don't remember getting a really good return in a trade since Roy was traded and even then we manged to piss away that 3 round pick...
Good. Return. For. Roy?

Worst trade in the history of the franchise. Second worst hockey deal.

Worst decision was taking Doug Wickenheiser first overall instead of Denis Savard. ( Hayley Wickenheiser would have been much better )

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Old
07-02-2013, 11:40 PM
  #639
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Not sure I like the trade, Thomas is 2 years younger, but is also smaller, Kristo must have been a hell of a headcase to be shipped that fast... but, still, let's give this guy a chance, who knows ?

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Old
07-02-2013, 11:59 PM
  #640
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From Hockeysfuture scouting:

Christian Thomas
Talent Analysis

Thomas is an undersized, high skill forward, with excellent speed and outstanding hands. He has the potential to be an elite scorer in the NHL, however, he will need to build greater body strength to be successful in the NHL.

------------------------------
Danny Kristo
Talent Analysis

At times, Kristo lacks the consistency and the work ethic needed to play at the NHL level but definitely not the skills. He has quick acceleration, a powerful stride and uses his explosive speed to help make space for him offensively. The talented winger is equally fast with or without the puck and has developed the ability to shoot the puck while in full stride toward the net with a quick, accurate release.

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07-03-2013, 12:27 AM
  #641
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
As others have pointed out, Thomas is younger and has a scoring touch. Besides, saying Kristo could be an ingredient in a package deal isn't a compelling argument. How do you know Thomas couldn't fill a similar role?
So we trade for a guy who could be part of a package for a trade for another player? Does that make sense at all to you?

I'm not saying Thomas is a bad player, I'm saying we have too many of this kind of player. If we're going to trade away Kristo then trade him for something that we need. And if Kristo isn't enough, then package him with other players/picks.

We have needs that have to be addressed. I would've hoped that we'd have used Kristo as a means of addressing those needs.

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07-03-2013, 12:30 AM
  #642
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I thought the midget era could be overcome, after these 3 last days we've loaded up with them, like massively loaded up with midgets. I think we should stop now.

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07-03-2013, 12:36 AM
  #643
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Originally Posted by ChoseLa View Post
I thought the midget era could be overcome, after these 3 last days we've loaded up with them, like massively loaded up with midgets. I think we should stop now.
Not that I see team height as an issue anyway... but complaining about it in this thread is hilarious. With Kristo traded for Thomas, we have exactly the same number of undersized players as before the trade. Kristo isn't going to be using his strength or wingspan to be winning any puck battles in the NHL.

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07-03-2013, 12:50 AM
  #644
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Not that I see team height as an issue anyway... but complaining about it in this thread is hilarious. With Kristo traded for Thomas, we have exactly the same number of undersized players as before the trade. Kristo isn't going to be using his strength or wingspan to be winning any puck battles in the NHL.
I like the trade actualy, but knowing that we got 3 midgets in the NHL and we acquired 3 of them in he last three days, with two that have a lot of chance to make the NHL soon enough, i don't like the big picture.

I actualy prefer Thomas over Kristo, never believed in him. But he could hit and go the net at full speed, he wasn't a great bettler in the corners though.

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07-03-2013, 01:03 AM
  #645
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I never liked Kristo but, I was really hoping we'd move him for a type of player we didn't already have.

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Old
07-03-2013, 02:13 AM
  #646
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David Desharnais (+ Christian Thomas) to NYR for free.

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07-03-2013, 02:16 AM
  #647
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Who the ******* is C.Thomas?

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07-03-2013, 02:27 AM
  #648
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Who the ******* is C.Thomas?
One of the finest actors of the 80's.

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07-03-2013, 03:33 AM
  #649
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Who the ******* is C.Thomas?
Soft one dimensional scorer. Like DD except scores instead of passes.

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Old
07-03-2013, 03:34 AM
  #650
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So we trade for a guy who could be part of a package for a trade for another player? Does that make sense at all to you?

I'm not saying Thomas is a bad player, I'm saying we have too many of this kind of player. If we're going to trade away Kristo then trade him for something that we need. And if Kristo isn't enough, then package him with other players/picks.

We have needs that have to be addressed. I would've hoped that we'd have used Kristo as a means of addressing those needs.
I think this deal is pretty straightforward. Kristo being older and closer to UFA and having completely not impressed anyone during his 9 game sin the AHL has no more value than what you just saw, fetching a 40th overall pick who potted 19 goals as a rookie in the AHL.

Throwing a prospect into a package is usually a losing proposition, see McDonagh.

It's actually not true that we have a lot of what Thomas brings. Truth is, Hamilton is kind of starved for offensive players.

I have no problem at all with this move that buys us development time for a prospect with NHL potential.

Our needs for a crease-clearing defenceman and a scorer to replace Ryder could not be addressed by dangling Kristo.

There is the primary UFA market (Clarkson, etc.), secondary UFA market that will develop after all the expensive guys are taken, the waiver wire, as some overpriced guys but with some skill are made available, and of course the trade market, possibly using assets that could have value in the league like Moen, Diaz, Bourque or Gionta, and even Gorges, Plekanec or Markov, depending on the returns.

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