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Stu. Is it time to drop the Magnificent?

View Poll Results: What say Stu?
Magnificent ******* 15 10.95%
Insignificant ******* 43 31.39%
******* 14 10.22%
Too soon to say 65 47.45%
Voters: 137. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
06-27-2013, 09:38 PM
  #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stratedge View Post
I love how the people criticizing Stu are doing so by basing their argument largely on factors that take place AFTER the player is drafted.

"Oh that guy was traded so he doesn't count." "That guy got injured so he took a step backwards so that's bad drafting."

Care to respond to the rest of my post?

Nobody said those things were Stu's fault.

Feel free to compare our non first round prospects to the list I provided you.

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06-28-2013, 03:38 AM
  #152
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Rieder isnt ours and the arrows are definitely NOT pointing up for Gernat.
Why would it matter if he's ours? We drafted him. This is a drafting topic is he not?

And Gernat was recovering from a serious injury and still put 17 points in 22 games, in a tough-ass playoff league.

So, I think my point stands. Gernat you can argue for sure because you have an eye for the Oil Kings, but Rieder not being our property has no bearing on our drafting.

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06-28-2013, 03:42 AM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Senor Catface View Post
Why would it matter if he's ours? We drafted him. This is a drafting topic is he not?

And Gernat was recovering from a serious injury and still put 17 points in 22 games, in a tough-ass playoff league.

So, I think my point stands. Gernat you can argue for sure, but Rieder not being our property has no bearing on our drafting.
I get that, but you were compiling a list of prospects that were "promising". Stu did draft Rieder, not his fault he was moved, but Gernat is not the player everyone thought he was last year. It was actually pretty shocking to me how much the difference was. I wasnt expecting him to hit the ground running but it took him a LONG time before he even looked passable at the WHL level.

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06-28-2013, 07:15 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
I get that, but you were compiling a list of prospects that were "promising". Stu did draft Rieder, not his fault he was moved, but Gernat is not the player everyone thought he was last year. It was actually pretty shocking to me how much the difference was. I wasnt expecting him to hit the ground running but it took him a LONG time before he even looked passable at the WHL level.
True bro, and like I said you know the team better than most on this site, so I'll leave Gernat to your eye over mine because I simply don't see enough of him...and you scare me. But I think since Rieder, even though he's no longer is our property, should be a plus mark since we drafted him.

What I'm more concerned about is who is making what decisions on each player. As in, what picks are done by scout A and what are done by scout B. Who's the guy was deadset on bust X. That's who I want to know. The general idea is that some guys get "their" guy later in the draft, and so whoever picked Hesketh needs to be shot out of a cannon, right into outer space.

How much power does the head scout have in the grand scheme of things? If there's 10 meatheads below him, how much can he do? Rhetorical questions I guess.

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06-29-2013, 01:12 AM
  #155
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Nah, Gernat is fine.

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06-29-2013, 02:01 AM
  #156
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Voted insignificant, but probably better described as average. If Klefbom becomes what I think he can, he gets more respect. Either way, he put together one of the best junior teams of all-time, so I wouldn't say he's bad at determining young talent. Just doesn't have a Datsyuk/Zetterberg on his résumé, but how many do?

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06-29-2013, 02:07 AM
  #157
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Well, this weekend can tip his rep one way or the other. To me he has been right down the middle. Not great and not bad. Just decent. Having a lower pick in a deep draft will be a good test to see if he can find the good guys later on, not that I expect 7 to be a difficult pick, butnthe rest of the draft will be n

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06-29-2013, 04:22 AM
  #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Senor Catface View Post
True bro, and like I said you know the team better than most on this site, so I'll leave Gernat to your eye over mine because I simply don't see enough of him...and you scare me. But I think since Rieder, even though he's no longer is our property, should be a plus mark since we drafted him.

What I'm more concerned about is who is making what decisions on each player. As in, what picks are done by scout A and what are done by scout B. Who's the guy was deadset on bust X. That's who I want to know. The general idea is that some guys get "their" guy later in the draft, and so whoever picked Hesketh needs to be shot out of a cannon, right into outer space.

How much power does the head scout have in the grand scheme of things? If there's 10 meatheads below him, how much can he do? Rhetorical questions I guess.
Questions we would all like to know, but will never get an answer to.

Would be a fascinating subject for a film, something much more compelling and informative than the Oil Change infomercials. The hard part would be getting full access. They likely wouldnt go along with it for a variety of reasons.

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06-29-2013, 05:43 AM
  #159
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My view on Stu MacGregor used to be Magnificent, if only because of Eberle, all the way up until Sunday, June 23, 2012

I was pretty giddy because Aberg, Collberg and Matt Finn were still on the board.

A lot of Oiler fans wanted Thrower.

My personal pick, the guy I wanted really bad, was Martin Frk. I thought this guy had goal scoring ability, and I really wanted him.

Oilers select Mitch Moroz

I punched my wall.

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06-29-2013, 05:57 AM
  #160
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Looking at the drafts he's lead, his skill picks seem to be okay. Wish he made more in the second round near the top. His big body picks are really bad. His defense picks have been useless. Goatlending picks are yet to be determined but so far poor. Does well with the Sub round 4 skill picks but before that drafts on size. Doesn't seem to work well.

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06-29-2013, 06:08 AM
  #161
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Originally Posted by MorganORiellyFan View Post
Looking at the drafts he's lead, his skill picks seem to be okay. Wish he made more in the second round near the top. His big body picks are really bad. His defense picks have been useless. Goatlending picks are yet to be determined but so far poor. Does well with the Sub round 4 skill picks but before that drafts on size. Doesn't seem to work well.
I think those picks have been just fine so far. Klefbom, Marincin, Musil, Gernat, Davidson and Simpson seem to be developing on the right tract but I agree the coke machine picks have been bad.

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06-30-2013, 01:15 AM
  #162
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Stu was hired as head scout in September 2007, so his first draft at the helm was in 2008. Here are his drafts since becoming head scout:

2008 round 1, 22 overall - Jordan Eberle C *solid pick
2008 round 4, 103 overall - Johan Motin D
2008 round 5, 133 overall - Philippe Cornet LW *solid pick
2008 round 6, 163 overall - Teemu Hartikainen LW *solid pick
2008 round 7, 193 overall - Jordan Bendfeld D
2008 imo is a hard draft to call, traded 2nd and 3rd round picks make it difficult to assess. It's a good draft year despite the limited number of picks, primarily for one simple reason: getting Eberle at 22nd was a complete win. Picking up Hartikainen in the 6th round was also a nice find. Cornet is talented but the NHL clock is winding down on him, solid AHL player, and he may have NHL potential somewhere, if not on the Oilers. Jordan Eberle makes this a draft win for Stu.
2009 round 1, 10 overall - Magnus Paajarvi-Svensson LW *solid pick
2009 round 2, 40 overall - Anton Lander C *solid pick
2009 round 3, 71 overall - Troy Hesketh D
2009 round 3, 82 overall - Cameron Abney RW
2009 round 4, 99 overall - Kyle Bigos D
2009 round 4, 101 overall - Toni Rajala RW *solid pick
2009 round 5, 133 overall - Olivier Roy G *solid pick
Mediocre draft overall (71, 82, and 99 were organizational need picks that haven't panned out). Paajarvi and Lander are likely to carve out NHL careers and Rajala and Roy could as well. Obviously, some attempt to fill organizational need with some size (Hesketh-Abney-Bigos) at the draft table that haven't gone as well as hoped. I haven't seen enough of Bigos, but foot speed is apparently an issue with him and possibly a barrier. Abney is tough as nails, but hasn't developed other aspects of his game much, and Hesketh is no longer with the organization. I love the Rajala and Roy picks in the late rounds though.
2010 round 1, 1 overall - Taylor Hall LW *solid pick
2010 round 2, 31 overall - Tyler Pitlick C *solid pick
2010 round 2, 46 overall - Martin Marincin D *solid pick
2010 round 2, 48 overall - Curtis Hamilton LW
2010 round 3, 61 overall - Ryan Martindale C
2010 round 4, 91 overall - Jeremie Blain D *solid pick
2010 round 5, 121 overall - Tyler Bunz G
2010 round 6, 162 overall - Brandon Davidson D *solid pick
2010 round 6, 166 overall - Drew Czerwonka LW
2010 round 7, 181 overall - Kristians Pelss LW *solid pick (R.I.P. Kristians)
2010 round 7, 202 overall - Kellen Jones F *solid pick
This draft is TBD at a later date. Hamilton-Martindale-Pitlick are the keys. One or more of those players needs to turn out as an NHLer. Of the three, to date, Pitlick holds the most promise. He is progressing well after some injury setbacks and is now tracking well, but each of these picks has struggled. Hamilton and Martindale still might turn it around, but they are both in need of huge seasons in the AHL next season. I'm routing for both these players in a big way. I was really excited by the Hamilton draft when it took place, and the Martindale pick seemed like a good gamble at the time. Bunz went into a tail spin this past season, but could still easily turn it around. Drew Czerwonka is no longer part of the organization's plans.
2011 round 1, 1 overall - Ryan Nugent-Hopkins C *solid pick
2011 round 1, 19 overall - Oscar Klefbom D *solid pick
2011 round 2, 31 overall - David Musil D *solid pick
2011 round 3, 62 overall - Samu Perhonen G
2011 round 3, 74 overall - Travis Ewanyk C *solid pick
2011 round 4, 92 overall - Dillon Simpson RW *solid pick
2011 round 4, 114 overall - Tobias Rieder RW *solid pick
2011 round 5, 122 overall - Martin Gernat D *solid pick
2011 round 7, 182 overall - Frans Tuohimaa G *solid pick
Too early to make a call on this draft, but a lot of good things here. Musil has questionable foot speed, but his father had a solid NHL career with a similar issue, and my guess is that Musil the younger does the same. Ewanyk has sustained some injuries that have meddled with his development, but he's a player that just keeps coming and could fill a 3rd or 4th line role down the line for the Oil. Perhonen is no longer a part of the organization. This draft could see a number of players who become NHLers. I really liked this draft at the time and still do.
2012 round 1, 1 overall - Nail Yakupov RW *solid pick
2012 round 2, 32 overall - Mitchell Moroz LW * jury's out
2012 round 3, 63 overall - Jujhar Khaira LW *solid pick
2012 round 3, 91 overall - Daniil Zharkov LW *solid pick
2012 round 4, 93 overall - Erik Gustafsson D *solid pick
2012 round 5, 123 overall - Joey LaLeggia D *solid pick
2012 round 6, 153 overall - John McCarron RW *solid pick
Again, too early to assess this draft, but I was hoping for more offensively from Moroz this past season. Still he's a ****** to play against. He's a player that the Oilers really wanted badly, and he was selected higher than projected. We've been told repeatedly that he was on the radar of a few NHL teams and wouldn't have been available with the next Oiler's pick. He exemplifies an organizational need pick. I love the LaLeggia pick, and I believe that some day, despite his diminutive size, that he'll play somewhere in the NHL. McCarron is a tough winger, the kind of player the Oilers should be selecting in the later rounds imo.
Given that 63% of 1st rounders, 25% of 2nd rounders, and 12% of 3rd rounders and beyond become career NHLers (see here), I'd say Stu is faring well. He needs to steer clear of drafting for organizational need and draft BPA.
My projection for Stu's drafts:
1st rounders - success rate 100%
2nd rounder - success rate 50-66%
3rd rounders and beyond - success rate 18-27%


Last edited by Hockey Buddha: 06-30-2013 at 11:27 AM.
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Old
06-30-2013, 03:03 AM
  #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
Most draft picks are misses and every team's fanbase can play the "we should have taken x over y" game for every draft.

1st round: Stu has done well by not trying to outsmart everyone and taken the consensus 1st overall. Not hard to do, but it's still the best choice he could have made, and he made it. Other 1sts have also been ranging from decent to exceptional. Eberle@22. Klefbom@19. Paajarvi@10. All NHLers and 2 potential top line/pairing guys. We have to remember that 1sts aren't automatic players either. Remember the KP days? The fact that all of Stu's 1st rounders are good-elite NHLers is way more than a lot of teams can boast from their amateur scouting since 08.

2nd round: 15-19% of 2nd rounder turn into NHLers. Stu has had 6 so far. Lander, Pitlick, Marincin, Hamilton, Musil and Moroz. Technically if one of them becomes an NHLer, Stu would be around average. Marincin and Lander both look like they could play. Possibly Musil too. Moroz, Hamilton, and Pitlick are still young and could improve as well.

Other rounds: Total crap shoot. Any NHLers from these rounds is just icing. Hartikainen could play if he returns to NA in a couple of years. Gernat and Davidson look like they could challenge for a spot. And a handful of wildcards that could surprise as well.

In short, I think some people are being too hard on Stu for not being omniscient.
Don't forget there are some people that aren't happy with the Hall, RNH, Yakupov picks and they've criticized the Oilers for it. These people wanted Seguin over Hall; Landeskog/Larsson over RNH and Murray/Galchenyuk over Yakupov. These people will criticize no matter who the Oilers draft.

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06-30-2013, 03:07 AM
  #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
Posts like these are really starting to get annoying.
Stu has drafted 2 Oil King players in 5 years (Ewanyk and Moroz).
Musil was regarded as a pretty mid to high 2nd rounder going in the draft so it's not like they just drafted him because he was Frank's son although i wasn't a fan of the pick at all.
Dillon Simpson was regarded as solid value for where the Oilers got him, don't see the problem with that pick.
Musil was traded to the Oil Kings from the Giants. Didn't play for the Oil Kings when Oilers drafted him.

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06-30-2013, 03:08 AM
  #165
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Originally Posted by Narnia View Post
Don't forget there are some people that aren't happy with the Hall, RNH, Yakupov picks and they've criticized the Oilers for it. These people wanted Seguin over Hall; Landeskog/Larsson over RNH and Murray/Galchenyuk over Yakupov. These people will criticize no matter who the Oilers draft.
There will always be parts of the fanbase that criticize moves. We're all Oiler fans and want them to succeed, some just have different views on how best to achieve that success. That being said, I am with you, I think all of Stu's draft choices at 1 were the correct ones.

Welcome back Narnia.

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06-30-2013, 10:00 AM
  #166
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Originally Posted by aleshemsky83 View Post
We keep drafting the children of former oilers and people on the oilers payroll, not exactly a sign that there is a master plan.
A little OT (and it must have been asked before), but is Stu MacGregor related to Bruce MacGregor? I tried googling this and somehow couldn't find anything.

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06-30-2013, 10:09 AM
  #167
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Originally Posted by Paralyzer008 View Post
My view on Stu MacGregor used to be Magnificent, if only because of Eberle, all the way up until Sunday, June 23, 2012

I was pretty giddy because Aberg, Collberg and Matt Finn were still on the board.

A lot of Oiler fans wanted Thrower.

My personal pick, the guy I wanted really bad, was Martin Frk. I thought this guy had goal scoring ability, and I really wanted him.

Oilers select Mitch Moroz

I punched my wall.
I wanted Thrower all year and was thrilled when he was available. I was disappointed, but I'm willing to give Moroz a shot. If he can be at least a bottom 6 **** disturber that's good enough to take a regular shift, I'll give Stu a pass on that one

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07-03-2013, 03:11 AM
  #168
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Here is an article on the Oiler's scouting staff, who works where, what picks they have made, etc. It has enough info that people may or may not have seen before that it is probably worth a couple minutes of your time to look at, if you are interested in prospects and/or the Oilers scouting structure/record.

http://nhlnumbers.com/2013/5/24/who-...rs-best-scouts

If the article is to be believed the breakdown is 3guys covering the WHL, USHL and other junior leagues (AJHL, BCJHL etc) 2 guys covering the OHL and one ****ing guy covering the entire QMJHL. There are three guys in Europe.

I find this rather astonishing. Especially considering our draft record. Two guys to cover the entire OHL? One guy to cover the entire QMJHL? How is that even possible? How does one guy cover an area as vast as Quebec and the Maritimes, and give you a good look at the comings and goings of an entire league? There isnt enough hours in a day to stay on top of all that. How much more money would it cost to have at least three guys in each CHL league? 150k? 250 including expenses and whatnot? How has this been allowed to continue like this?

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07-03-2013, 04:36 AM
  #169
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Here is an article on the Oiler's scouting staff, who works where, what picks they have made, etc. It has enough info that people may or may not have seen before that it is probably worth a couple minutes of your time to look at, if you are interested in prospects and/or the Oilers scouting structure/record.

http://nhlnumbers.com/2013/5/24/who-...rs-best-scouts

If the article is to be believed the breakdown is 3guys covering the WHL, USHL and other junior leagues (AJHL, BCJHL etc) 2 guys covering the OHL and one ****ing guy covering the entire QMJHL. There are three guys in Europe.

I find this rather astonishing. Especially considering our draft record. Two guys to cover the entire OHL? One guy to cover the entire QMJHL? How is that even possible? How does one guy cover an area as vast as Quebec and the Maritimes, and give you a good look at the comings and goings of an entire league? There isnt enough hours in a day to stay on top of all that. How much more money would it cost to have at least three guys in each CHL league? 150k? 250 including expenses and whatnot? How has this been allowed to continue like this?
Thanks for the article, IATL. That's a lot of ground to cover in the Q: 19 teams, a 68 game schedule plus playoffs. I imagine that those scouts are quite connected within those leagues, and talk to coaches, managers, etc., gathering information. Seems like it could be improved though and certainly wouldn't hurt to have more eyes watching those leagues.

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07-03-2013, 11:04 AM
  #170
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Fine ...ill do it.

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07-03-2013, 11:16 AM
  #171
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Here is an article on the Oiler's scouting staff, who works where, what picks they have made, etc. It has enough info that people may or may not have seen before that it is probably worth a couple minutes of your time to look at, if you are interested in prospects and/or the Oilers scouting structure/record.

http://nhlnumbers.com/2013/5/24/who-...rs-best-scouts

If the article is to be believed the breakdown is 3guys covering the WHL, USHL and other junior leagues (AJHL, BCJHL etc) 2 guys covering the OHL and one ****ing guy covering the entire QMJHL. There are three guys in Europe.

I find this rather astonishing. Especially considering our draft record. Two guys to cover the entire OHL? One guy to cover the entire QMJHL? How is that even possible? How does one guy cover an area as vast as Quebec and the Maritimes, and give you a good look at the comings and goings of an entire league? There isnt enough hours in a day to stay on top of all that. How much more money would it cost to have at least three guys in each CHL league? 150k? 250 including expenses and whatnot? How has this been allowed to continue like this?
Interesting stuff - just wish I knew what other teams do as well. Is this a typical scouting staff, or more bare bones?

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07-03-2013, 11:34 AM
  #172
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Interesting stuff - just wish I knew what other teams do as well. Is this a typical scouting staff, or more bare bones?
Found this old-ish article on scouting staffs around the league.

If this is still accurate, the Oilers have a pretty average-sized amateur scouting staff. I really can't see why a rich team like Edmonton wouldn't load up in an area like this. Seems like a pretty easy and cheap way to get a leg up on the competition, especially during a rebuild.

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07-03-2013, 11:49 AM
  #173
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Originally Posted by Moose Coleman View Post
Found this old-ish article on scouting staffs around the league.

If this is still accurate, the Oilers have a pretty average-sized amateur scouting staff. I really can't see why a rich team like Edmonton wouldn't load up in an area like this. Seems like a pretty easy and cheap way to get a leg up on the competition, especially during a rebuild.


This just in...MacT to fire entire scouting staff in favor or using HF rankings and suggestions from posters....

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07-03-2013, 11:57 AM
  #174
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This just in...MacT to fire entire scouting staff in favor or using HF rankings and suggestions from posters....
You don't think adding a few more bodies would be a benefit?

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07-03-2013, 12:08 PM
  #175
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Interesting stuff - just wish I knew what other teams do as well. Is this a typical scouting staff, or more bare bones?
The Montreal Canadiens have 14, 15 if you include head scout Trevor Timmins.

The Leafs have 13 and then 5 European scouts (unclear if they are pro or amateur).

We have nine. Including Europe and including Stu.

You can find this info on the team's web pages linked from NHL.com, but the Oilers give no info on their scouting staff on their page.

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