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Where did Clarke go wrong?

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Old
10-22-2006, 11:00 PM
  #26
Street Hawk
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Waive Hatcher and Rathje...

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Originally Posted by graveyardshift View Post
A few buddies and I were going around the table at a bar and we trying to figure out just when Clarke went wrong with how he put this team together

IMO it was the signing of Hatcher and Rathje. I think Clarke was not prepared for the how fast the new NHL is and I think both players are too slow for the new NHL.

I was looking at the topics and did not see a topic that wanted to discuss where Clarke went wrong.

I saw the clarke/hitch discussion pinned--so if the mods feal as though this is just part the bigger discussion theycan move it.

The Flyers, from what I understand of the CBA, do have the option of waiving both players and sending them to the minors, thus ridding themselves of the 7 million dollar cap hit for them. However, they would still be on the hook to pay the 2 guys their NHL salaries even though they are in the AHL.

Now, given that the Flyers had payrolls over $60 million prior to the lockout, if Snider and the new GM view that it is best for Philly to get rid of the 2 pylons, then Snider and the Flyers may have to eat the remaining couple of years on their contracts, but it would give the Flyers $7 million back against the cap.

New Jersey did this with Dan McGillis, who's on their farm team despite making over 2 million this year and last with the Devils.

So, as long as the Flyers are prepared to eat the salary of those guys, they can improve the speed on the backend.

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Old
10-22-2006, 11:04 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by graveyardshift View Post
I think the Flyers have the goalie in Nitti--but that is just me--he needs a better back up
Agreed. How can anyone honestly say that Miller, Lundqvist, Gerber or Ward are better than Nitty.

IMO, you have Brodeur, Kipper (shaky right now however), Luongo...

Then you have a solid group of the Nitty's, Ward's, Lundqvist, Gerber's, Ward's, Toskala's, Turco's (would have him in elite but his playoffs bunders have tainted his status for now), Rolosson's, Lehtonen's, etc... but do you honestly see one name there that is hands down better than everyone else?

Then you have the esches, grahame's, weeke's of the league who can show flashes of being something useful or completely useless (sometimes in the same game).

Put hitch behind the bench of edmonton, buffalo, or carolina and are they as successful? probably not. hitch's 1-2-2 system isn't fitted for this NHL as you can't slow people down in the neutral zone as effectively as you could before, so why not forecheck more aggressively in the offensive zone to create turnovers that may lead to a thing called shots on goal? i respect hitch, but until he changes, he won't be as effective as he was before.

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Old
10-23-2006, 01:10 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by frozenrubber View Post
Can you shed some light on the "letting Markov walk" comment. I thought he was traded to the Predators for a midround pick (3rd or 4th, can't remember). Was there something more to this that led Clarke shipping him to Nashville?
I don't know if there was something more, I just feel they should have kept him. "Letting Markov walk" is probably poor terminology on my part, I know he was traded, he just never should have been.

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10-23-2006, 02:10 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Storm in a Teacup View Post
I don't know if there was something more, I just feel they should have kept him. "Letting Markov walk" is probably poor terminology on my part, I know he was traded, he just never should have been.
Apparently he was battling alcoholism and the club felt he was too much of a liability at the time because he was thinking of going back to russia

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10-23-2006, 02:54 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by julitog View Post
DL is a Genius!!
He signed Cloutier to a two year extension with only seeing one (bad) game.

He's really not.

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Old
10-23-2006, 07:06 AM
  #31
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Signing John VBK, and Not Curits Joseph.

But more recently, not signing Kim Jonsson. As a Devil's fan, I hated playing against him, which says a lot. I never had any fear of Mike Rathje.

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10-23-2006, 07:11 AM
  #32
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I don't think it was losing Kim Johnsson...it was losing Kim Johnsson and not adequately replacing him

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Old
10-23-2006, 07:15 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Nuclear View Post
Apparently he was battling alcoholism and the club felt he was too much of a liability at the time because he was thinking of going back to russia
He was battling alcoholism in Toronto as well. In fact, I'm pretty sure it's the same battle. I like Markov, it's sad that his problem continues, and he seeks no help.

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Old
10-23-2006, 09:27 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
I don't think it was losing Kim Johnsson...it was losing Kim Johnsson and not adequately replacing him
If it wasn't for Primeau, he probably would have. There was too much uncertainy around the org. at the time Minn signed Johnsson to commit the 5 mil to him.

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Old
10-23-2006, 09:40 AM
  #35
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Nedved trade of course. Then the signing of BOTH Hatcher and Rathje. As unlucky he was with new rules he was lucky in getting rid of Roenick and aquiring Forsberg. IMO Forsberg signed because of the team, the town, Gagne + that team was loaded with low salary possible breakout players like Anty, Pitcher, Richards, Carter, Hum-Wee and so on. I'm still optimistic about this season. One of Hatcher or Rathje must go, though. Btw, isn't Sanderson a nice surprise? Kapanen will be better, so will Forsberg, Jonsson comes back soon, Hatcher might adapt, one of the young forwards will break out...Ruzicka too.

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Old
10-23-2006, 09:55 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by FoppaArGud View Post
I think history will look back on him as a committed by mediocre GM. I dont think anyone outspent the Flyers during his time here yet we came close only a couple of times with talent, pretty good coaching and dedicated ownership. Clarke was a great player and a fantastic captain here but it took more than passion to put together a winning team.
Huh. Mediocore? Let me take a moment to educate you.

714W - 443L - 199T - .620P
16 Playoff Apparences
8 Division Titles
3 Eastern Conference Championships
3 Trips to the Stanley Cup Finals

Not to mention taking Minnesota to the finals and turning Florida into a winning team (at least temporarily).

And, no, he didn't win a Cup as a GM, but his record speaks for itself. Oh, BTW, the NY Rangers outspent the Flyers for years without even making the playoffs, so it's not just about money.

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Old
10-23-2006, 01:32 PM
  #37
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it all started to go wrong when at the draft he couldnt remember the name of his draft pick

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Old
10-23-2006, 02:44 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJFlyer42 View Post
Huh. Mediocore? Let me take a moment to educate you.

714W - 443L - 199T - .620P
16 Playoff Apparences
8 Division Titles
3 Eastern Conference Championships
3 Trips to the Stanley Cup Finals

Not to mention taking Minnesota to the finals and turning Florida into a winning team (at least temporarily).

And, no, he didn't win a Cup as a GM, but his record speaks for itself. Oh, BTW, the NY Rangers outspent the Flyers for years without even making the playoffs, so it's not just about money.
It's not just about money, but it's about money too. Was there a player that he couldn't get because he couldn't afford it? I don't think so. He made some brutal choices over the years. Some good ones too, but some real stinkers were in there. He never got a goalie that could win a cup. Almost every decision post-lockout has been a catastrophe...

He was a decent GM for the Flyers and probably didn't deserve to have his job as long as he did. But that's okay. He's gone now and that's for the best.

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Old
10-23-2006, 03:21 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Ar-too View Post
It's not just about money, but it's about money too. Was there a player that he couldn't get because he couldn't afford it? I don't think so. He made some brutal choices over the years. Some good ones too, but some real stinkers were in there. He never got a goalie that could win a cup. Almost every decision post-lockout has been a catastrophe...

He was a decent GM for the Flyers and probably didn't deserve to have his job as long as he did. But that's okay. He's gone now and that's for the best.
Of course he made some brutal choices, as does anyone in his position. And about the goalies, it's easy to say that, but there was only one Martin Brodeur and Patrick Roy out there at the time and Cujo (who was actually available) was on some pretty good teams and could never get them over the hump. As far as your money point, he had the same type of success in Minnesota and Florida where he was not able to spend freely. I will agree with you that he has not been good post-lockout, but he has left us with a great nucleus of young players.

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Old
10-23-2006, 03:53 PM
  #40
i am dave
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GentlemanOfLeisure View Post
Signing John VBK, and Not Curits Joseph.
I will go to my grave saying that Curtis Joseph was not the answer, and not a year goes by where I don't hear people saying it was a mistake not to sign CuJo. First of all, Curtis Joseph to this day has not done anything of note in the playoffs, and he's played on good teams! Secondly, Clarke had a motive in signing Beezer, and that was to mentor Boucher, who eventually did take the job. Unfortunately for all involved, Boucher turned to jello when pressured by Oulette and Cechmanek.

Which brings me to... Trading "Mr. 1.83" for a 2nd Rounder.

And what "bad Flyers trades" thread would be complete without me mentioning...

Kent Manderville... for BILLY TIBBETS.


Last edited by i am dave: 10-23-2006 at 04:20 PM.
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