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How to deke

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Old
07-03-2013, 10:47 AM
  #1
Chanbing96
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How to deke

I'm 26 years old I started when I was 23 I play at the top intermidate men's league I'm decently high on the stats for the league so I think I'm at the point where I should be able to deke around people. I can sometimes but most of the time I get shut down I can skate backwards forwards crossovers in any direction and am decently fast not the fastest by any means. Does anyone have any tips or suggestion on any of your go to moves that I could learn or how to practice deke-ing?

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07-03-2013, 05:25 PM
  #2
ATLhockey437
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^^^ people dont backcheck that much in mens league, a drop pass to the trailer is way more effective than toe dragging

Learn to cup the puck on your backhand side as your stickhandling.

Shielding the puck this way can make defenseman bite and open up a seam. Controlling the puck this way also is an easier form of toedragging and shielding the puck behind your back foot.

Plus whenever on a breakway, the slightest of flinches when make the goalie drop and give you a huge advantage.

For reference look up Parise, Gagner or Kane shootout moves when they were starting out their NHL careers.
Matt Hendricks is deadly with this move. The open it up for a half a second, and then a two deke combo to either their backhand or forehand.

More importantly, you have make a quick assesment on your speed vs the dmans gap control and angle he has on you before going for the deke or not. If not, just keep it simple and be a good teammate. Use your speed to take it wide and set people up.

If you have nothing, don't force it, circle behind the net looking for a cycle, slot pass, your points, or a shot in the faceoff/hashmarks perimeter.

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07-03-2013, 08:26 PM
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Noir
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It's a difficult question because you can't really teach deking. Deking is the ability to feign 1 move and get your opponent moving out of position defensively with respect to you.

The better you are at selling your fakes, the better you are as a deker. The interesting thing about dekes is, stickhandling is just really half of it. I've seen people who can execute toe-drags, inside-outs, spin-o-ramas on warm ups but have little success within a game because although they got the moves down, they're not selling their fakes well.



(Geez! I thought I could explain it better than this. I know what I'm talking about in my mind but for some reason, I apologize but I can't articulate it well enough.)

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07-03-2013, 09:52 PM
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1Knee1T
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noir View Post
It's a difficult question because you can't really teach deking. Deking is the ability to feign 1 move and get your opponent moving out of position defensively with respect to you.

The better you are at selling your fakes, the better you are as a deker. The interesting thing about dekes is, stickhandling is just really half of it. I've seen people who can execute toe-drags, inside-outs, spin-o-ramas on warm ups but have little success within a game because although they got the moves down, they're not selling their fakes well.



(Geez! I thought I could explain it better than this. I know what I'm talking about in my mind but for some reason, I apologize but I can't articulate it well enough.)

I think you said it pretty well, actually. You can have the best toe-drag form in the world but if you show the defenseman you're going to do it, he's going to stop you. There needs to be some sort of "pre-dangle move" before you actually try to dangle a defenseman. I'm not saying you need to fake to the backhand before you toe-drag the puck, but you need to get him thinking about something - skating wide on him, making a pass, taking a shot, etc. A subtle movement one way and dragging it the other way could work, or even something as small as picking up a bit more speed can throw the defenseman off. But if you're coming in one-on-one with a defenseman, and he has perfect gap control, one move will probably not beat him.

Edit: Damn, I see what Noir was saying. I'm having a difficult time trying to get my point across also.

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07-04-2013, 01:39 AM
  #5
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If you're fast enough this is one of the more simpler dekes to do that can be really effective.


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07-04-2013, 08:55 AM
  #6
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Get one of every stickhandling ball/puck you can find. Stickhandle @ home while watching tv, 3-5 times a week.

When you think you're pretty good, start doing in on a platform balance ball.

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07-04-2013, 08:22 PM
  #7
Noir
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TullyNYR View Post
...
Thanks


I'll try again:
Have you seen the movie The Prestige? The fancy names are all just that; they're "the prestige" of the deke. The toe-drag, the forehand-backhand, the spin-o-rama, the Datsyukian, etc. The key to deking is actually what you do before that.

Have you ever heard of the term "shifty" in hockey? That is exactly what deking is all about. Deking is causing your opponent to be out of position or be in a disadvantageous position. You do that by being shifty. On the top of my head, the tools I can quickly think of are:

Stop and goes
Stop and goes are all about the sudden change of your speed, causing your opponent to overshoot his position on you. You can do a full stop and go, or just even a slight hesitation and then go; the amount of hesitation required depends on the situation so a big part of this too is how well you read your situation.

Leaning & Weight shifting
This is about selling your fake in one direction by putting your weight (or leaning) into the direction and then shifting to the opposite. The further out you can lean with the puck one way, the better you're selling it.

However the key is, you can't lean with the puck too much that it's beyond your ability to pull the puck back in and onto the other direction. This develops little by little though until and you can gradually get your leans from weak to legit.

Fake Move???
I guess this goes into a category of its own. I've seen people fake a shot (causing defenders to stand up right and go for a blocking position), fake a pass, and I guess even shoulder fakes go here.

Hesitation - Game of Chicken
No other way of explaining it other than hesitating your move until the very last moment. I call it the game of Chicken because the objective is the same where the first player to flinch (or make a move in hockey context) is the loser.

Basically you're either baiting or out-waiting your opponent in order for him/her to make the first move.




So, does this help? Not yet. The tools above are useless unless you have the hockey sense to read when they're appropriate to employ and which ones (or which combination) are the appropriate according to the situation. So to be a dangler, your most dangerous weapon isn't exactly your skill, its your hockey sense.

So other than working on your elementary skills of hockey such as skating and stickhandling, how do you actually practice being a dangler? or hone your hockey senses which dictates:

1) how you read your opponent
2) how you read your immediate environment
3) how you read your situation


Well, one way is playing keep-away with your friend; similar to Datysuk's video below. Of course, find a partner on par with your skill level and progress gradually. Don't actually be as intense as this video or have similar expactations to it. Just play around.



Last edited by Noir: 07-04-2013 at 09:36 PM.
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07-05-2013, 02:44 AM
  #8
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Just 'cos I am pissed off: don't try to go between the opponents legs or cheeky stuff like that, had a guy at fun-roller doing it a couple times yesterday - if he tries anything like that on the ice my shoulder goes into his chest. Try to beat the opposing player cleanly.

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07-05-2013, 03:43 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gosinger View Post
Just 'cos I am pissed off: don't try to go between the opponents legs or cheeky stuff like that, had a guy at fun-roller doing it a couple times yesterday - if he tries anything like that on the ice my shoulder goes into his chest. Try to beat the opposing player cleanly.
What? So beating a defenseman through the legs isn't beating the opposing player "cleanly"? There are a few great moves that can be done against a defenseman in beer-league that involve going through his legs... and this shouldn't result in a body check against the puck carrier...

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07-05-2013, 04:10 AM
  #10
Noir
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gosinger View Post
Just 'cos I am pissed off: don't try to go between the opponents legs or cheeky stuff like that, had a guy at fun-roller doing it a couple times yesterday - if he tries anything like that on the ice my shoulder goes into his chest. Try to beat the opposing player cleanly.
Don't listen to this guy. You're a poor sport bro.

1) As far as the game is concerned, if it's a legit play, it's a clean play. Just because you don't like the move, or a particular play makes you look bad is not his problem; it's a you problem.

Looking bad happens to all hockey players, even the best. It's part of hockey and this happens to everyone from time to time. If you can't live with this part of the sport, and learn to live-and-let-live, you're going to have a lot of unpleasant hockey memories in your hockey life.


2) If this was a game situation where contact is legal, bodying him after trying to put the puck past you is a legit play anyways. If it's a game where contact is not legal, well good job putting your team short handed because your pride can't take a hit every now and then. If it's pickup, learn to chill out, play around, have fun. Don't ask people to dumb a game down because YOU don't want to defend a certain move, or YOU can't defend a certain move. This is exactly why this is a YOU thing and not a THEM thing.


3) Dealing with higher calibre players, being exposed to new moves you either haven't seen before, or cannot defend before is exactly how people progress as players.

I'm a dangler, trust me that this is truth. The more people see these kind of things, the less they fall for it in the future. For people who haven't figured out how defend such moves, the more chances they get to figure it out. By not accepting flashier, fancier, or creative-type moves, tells me you just want to defend conservative, traditional hockey plays. That's a ####ing lazy, unprogressive approach to the sport


4) Get your anger under control. It's just a game, it's just a hockey move. Whether you really are or not, right now you sound like a consequences be damned kind of person when you're angry. You're the worst kind of athlete in my books. You're going to hurt somebody someday if you can't keep that $#!t under control.

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07-05-2013, 05:07 AM
  #11
Bure All Day
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Dude, no offense, but by the sounds of it, you won't be deking any time soon...

You're better off asking your teammates who are actually there and can help you.

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07-05-2013, 06:47 AM
  #12
gosinger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fanned On It View Post
What? So beating a defenseman through the legs isn't beating the opposing player "cleanly"? There are a few great moves that can be done against a defenseman in beer-league that involve going through his legs... and this shouldn't result in a body check against the puck carrier...
Because if you go through the legs you are trying to get past the D very close to his body - on the ice a D doesn't watch the puck, he watches your chest, and if you try to go through him with squared shoulders the D will nail you.

On the given example I was pissed because in roller we can't body check, but everyone playing at this game is just doing roller for the time we don't have a rink available - don't train for bad habits.

Same @Noir, we don't have non-contact hockey over here (sadly not even in pick-up, even there we have open-ice hits where the more experienced "teach" players to keep their head up). This isn't about pride, or about looking bad, I was pissed off because I know on the ice I'll just take the body, and we all play to train for the coming ice season.

And even if a game was non-contact, that shouldn't change the way the game is played in my opinion. Just because the opposing player is not allowed to hit you this doesn't change the game into school-gym-basketball where you play as if the player with the ball is made of fire and you have to avoid touching him.....


Last edited by gosinger: 07-05-2013 at 06:59 AM.
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07-06-2013, 02:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gosinger View Post
Because if you go through the legs you are trying to get past the D very close to his body - on the ice a D doesn't watch the puck, he watches your chest, and if you try to go through him with squared shoulders the D will nail you.

On the given example I was pissed because in roller we can't body check, but everyone playing at this game is just doing roller for the time we don't have a rink available - don't train for bad habits.

Same @Noir, we don't have non-contact hockey over here (sadly not even in pick-up, even there we have open-ice hits where the more experienced "teach" players to keep their head up). This isn't about pride, or about looking bad, I was pissed off because I know on the ice I'll just take the body, and we all play to train for the coming ice season.

And even if a game was non-contact, that shouldn't change the way the game is played in my opinion. Just because the opposing player is not allowed to hit you this doesn't change the game into school-gym-basketball where you play as if the player with the ball is made of fire and you have to avoid touching him.....
What kind of ice-hockey do you play? Is this adult league (beer-league) or like... actual semi-pro/pro/get paid to play hockey? If it's the former, then I don't understand.

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07-06-2013, 03:21 AM
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beer-league in that it is the lowest level that (adult) amateurs can play in a regular league, without getting paid of-course and no fans to speak of. But it is still full-contact (with 2+ game penalties for fighting), which is why "older" players (40+) often question how long they will keep at it.

The point I was trying to raise is that even in non-contact hockey you should play the same as on full-contact hockey regarding the system you play as a team, the dekes you try, and so on.

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07-06-2013, 03:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gosinger View Post
The point I was trying to raise is that even in non-contact hockey you should play the same as on full-contact hockey regarding the system you play as a team, the dekes you try, and so on.

I hate to burst your bubble bro but even in full-contact hockey, there's no such rules or custom.


I understand how it might be distasteful to showboat your skills when you're in a situation where you're in a run-away game, and goals are already out of hand. In such context, it is quite a reasonable feeling, but you're supposed to be upset at the context and timing of when such a deke was done.

However, as long as it's not such a game and both sides are still trying to secure a win, there's no such thing as "a deke that is too unsportsmanlike". I don't care if it's a simple forehand-backhand deke, or something as crazy as the "michigan pickup", if it buys you a tying goal, or it buys you an insurance goal or two.... it's legit.







Although, inandvertently you raise a good point though, and I will say this to the OP:


If you ever become a dangler, it does paint a target on your back. When you start showing that you possess such extraordinary skills, it catches the other team's attention. You're going to get singled out because they can't just defend you like they defend everyone else normally (I don't think he'll care to admit it, but I think this is the brunt of gosinger's ire); instead they have to put special attention on you. But this goes for anybody who's a scoring threat to any game, whether you be a dangler, a sniper, etc.


Last edited by Noir: 07-06-2013 at 04:09 AM.
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07-06-2013, 05:10 AM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chanbing96 View Post
I think I'm at the point where I should be able to deke around people...
If you haven't worked at it then you're not at any point where you should be able to deke. Dekeing (sp?) is it's own skill. You could be the strongest, fastest or smartest player ever but that won't magically give you a skill you've never practiced. I have no hands so I cannot advise any deke learning methods but will say practice will get you there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gosinger View Post
On the given example I was pissed because in roller we can't body check...
Surely you can still get in his way? No-checking doesn't mean no-contact. Push him around a little, throw off his balance and momentum so he can't go flying by you smoothly to finish his move. Don't dump him but disrupt his flow. Instead of getting mad try to figure out a way to play that move so you can stop it in the future.


Last edited by kr580: 07-06-2013 at 05:15 AM.
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07-06-2013, 10:12 AM
  #17
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Learn to do everything at full speed. I've seen many guys that could "Stick the puck up your a** and pull it back out before you could say ouch", when there's no pressure, but they can't do it at full game speed. Those guys are easy to defend. Speed forces the defender to protect against you simply "Going wide" on him/her, which makes them much more vulnerable to a "Dangle".

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07-06-2013, 11:02 AM
  #18
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I'd say speed and like Noir alluded to the art of selling your fake. Being a proficient stickhandler of course is crucial, but to be effective in a game you must be able to execute at full speed. A good drill would be to simply line up some cones close together and practice weaving through them at full speed while stickhandling with the puck..
As for selling a fake, being able to deceive opponents with your head and body is a must. If you can sell a good fake with the head and make a quick cut you'll make your opponent look flatfooted. Fedorov used to be very good with selling the fake with his head and Datsyuk is as well

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07-06-2013, 01:18 PM
  #19
Brad Doty
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Some more quick shots advice (some great stuff in this thread, but let me give you a defenseman's perspective):

Make sure that when you're learning how to handle that you also pick up how to 1. do this stuff at high speed and 2. do it with your head up. The tips other folks have given about 'selling' your dekes rely heavily on your ability to not look like you're about to toe drag me. Also, if you're going very slow, you're going to stickhandle into nowhere, my chest, or a corner. Any smart d-man is going to angle you out and smother the play.

Also, I say do this at high speed because that's the killer. Any good-skating and/or smart d-man can compensate/recover...but other folks have already said that.

You'll notice that even the best danglers in the NHL don't dangle all the time--it's much harder to defend multi-tool players. If every time a player comes at me he's gonna deke, I can cheat a bit, too. It's much harder if a guy can look off a pass, shoot, shoot through screens, go wide with speed, or deke back into the middle. Unpredictability is the name of the game. Overly rehearsed 'moves' are almost easy to kill. I fancy myself a decent defenseman, and while I can stop practically anyone at my level (or even above to an extent) from dangling me, it's the guy that sells you the unexpected that's the most dangerous...you end up giving those players too much space.

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07-09-2013, 12:39 PM
  #20
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The whole thing about dekeing is not as much changing what you do with the puck but changing what your body is showing the opponent. The middle of your body is going to go where you are going but the head, upper body and stick can make the opposing player thing you are going elsewhere.

Just the good old fashioned head fake works against a lot of players.

The faster you are going the better your fake will work normally.

One of the best dekes used that applies to basketball, hockey and many other sports is letting the opponent think he can get the puck or ball and then pulling it away from him.

Also, timing of when to use the fake is important. If you are far enough away from the opponent the fake will not work as he will have time to adjust. Wait till you get just within stick range and use your fake move.

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