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Do UFAs avoid Montréal? If so, why?

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Old
07-03-2013, 10:01 PM
  #51
Hugo Sham
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
Cammalleri - Was over payed and apparently went to Toronto who wouldn't pay him a lesser contract.

Gionta - Overpaid

Cole - Got an extra year and money, went back to Carolina. Had Carolina matched, he would have went back there.

Prust - Habs offered him a contract, went back to New York, they didn't match/offer enough. Signed here.

Hamrlik - Signed on the 2nd day of free agency. Overpaid.

So, we have to over pay to sign anyone. Sometimes, even when we over pay they choose less some where else.


Reasons to no play here ?

Media
Taxes
Fans.

People apparently don't understand that hockey players don't want to be bothered every 5 seconds when they go out in public.
NEWS BULLETIN overpaying for guys is actually part of the UFA process and all teams do it

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07-03-2013, 10:06 PM
  #52
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Mainly Quebecers apparently, as to why, ask Vinny and Briere.

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Old
07-03-2013, 10:14 PM
  #53
BeliveauFan4ever
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Wow...what a picture...just awesome...!

Because there are so many, particularly southern, options :

> The team, the organization, needs to be top shelf, and consistently so.

Part of that, involves having an identity, which, IMO, our favorite team just doesn't have. Bowman and Pollock. Smarts. The players, talented and tough. Everybody knew it and sworn enemies begrudgingly admitted it.

We are so often McGuire-ingly referred to as a great skating team, and I am not so sure we are a GREAT skating team, up and down the lineup. Regardless, the blades cease to churn like they can when the heavy-hitting or trap masters clamp down. The imbalanced nature of the lineup the past several years, and/or poor role-playing, have led to several incidents which had me reaching for the remote, red-faced with embarrassment and anger.

Lucic > Komisarek

Chara > Pacioretty (personally, I would Clarke-Kharlamov him for that, knock him off that one ankle for a month or three, but that's just me)

Grabbo > Markov (the blue`n`white pest should be throttled for that, STILL)

* Some Leaf stiff > wailing away and laughing at Josh G.

I think this explains McCarron at pick No. 25 (no willingness to risk missing out on him).

That's fine, that is a step, but what are we ultimately building, say 4-5 years down the road?

There are other issues, taxes, hyper-fandom, etc. that I THINK can be greatly diminished if the club is understood, as a cold hard fact, to be super-well-run, that has a template for winning, year after year.

I don`t expect grandiose `we are gonna be!' speeches from Marc. I hope the real fervor is there, though, more privately.

There are no better fans in the game, anywhere; no better hockey city.

Confine the clowning to history and *spoil* the best fans anywhere with some truly great memories.

And every guy on the damn team has to be able to skate. NO plodders.

No pretenders, either.

Build it and they will come, or never want to leave.


Last edited by BeliveauFan4ever: 07-03-2013 at 10:24 PM.
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Old
07-03-2013, 10:22 PM
  #54
calder candidate
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MTL just doen't have the same glamour as it used to. Year of losing and bad management created this situation.
Yes, we finish 2nd but we will be struggle to make the playoff next year again...

1) prospect of winning, player want to play for a winning team
2) Taxes ±12% is a lot of money to leave on the table
3) Media (the freach media in carticular) they are just horrible
4) Pressure, if thing aren't going well the pressure will intensify1000000%
5) Environment (Winter,Traffic/road, school system)
6) Bad press from the player, we had a lot of player leave in recent year they might not say it out loud but the stories they share with other player aren't positive.
7) Fan Fan - the don't know anything about anything expect MTL (knowing what they are exposed to in the media we know why) they boo are own player, they get over excited and start planning the parade went we win one game they want to trade everyone for a dirty jock as soon as we lose a game.

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Old
07-03-2013, 10:29 PM
  #55
Myron Gaines*
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Because the pressure to win/team to win ratio is ****ing low. Players would have no problem coming here and dealing with so much **** if they knew they had a shot of winning the cup every year.

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07-03-2013, 10:35 PM
  #56
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I wouldn't say avoid, but the problem with many Habs fans is that they think the players should sacrifice money, commodity, etc. for the "privilege" of playing for the average team that is Montreal.

It doesn't matter how mythical the Canadiens are, players aren't going to take less money, and accept the media and fan scrutiny that awaits them here. The team just isn't that good anymore...

Everything would be different if we had a true winning team, I think we're still relevant in the league but it would be hard for anyone to say that we're going to be favorites to win the cup anytime soon and that's precicely why UFAs don't come here, we just make excuses by blaming the money and media and everything else.

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Old
07-03-2013, 10:48 PM
  #57
KerryFraser
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If i remember well Max Pac went to a movie theater after a concussion and it was not prescribed

Doctor Recchi's request to stay home all the time, don't go out or your life can be in jeopardy in Montréal.

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Old
07-03-2013, 10:55 PM
  #58
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Several reasons:

There is always ongoing societal issues in this Province, that is not only unattractive to hockey players, but to immigrants or tourist in general. Montreal used to be the financial and social capital of Canada at a certain point in recent history (today the city has unfortunately regressed pretty significantly), but I won't go any further, because then politics get involved, and this is not the forum for that.

Tax rate is not good.

The winter season can be brutal, but I don't this would really affect a millionaire athlete who gets his driveway cleaned every morning, and gets into his preheated range rover. It's not like they have to break their back every morning and catch the bus or train and minus 20. But, if you had the choice to live in a climate where it's summer all year round versus 6 months of winter, most of us would take summer.

The pressure also plays a big factor. Some people love attention, but many do not. Montreal also has a poor reputation of running players out of town, so potential players are now afraid of that because of the current stigma of this city.

If Montreal took a different course in history, and remained a booming society with minimal societal disturbances, a less heavy tax rate, another major league franchise sports club (i.e. keeping the Expos and moving them to a state of the art field), then players would be more attracted to come here, despite the media attention and winter season.

Quote:
Originally Posted by calder candidate View Post
MTL just doen't have the same glamour as it used to. Year of losing and bad management created this situation.
Yes, we finish 2nd but we will be struggle to make the playoff next year again...

1) prospect of winning, player want to play for a winning team
2) Taxes ±12% is a lot of money to leave on the table
3) Media (the freach media in carticular) they are just horrible
4) Pressure, if thing aren't going well the pressure will intensify1000000%
5) Environment (Winter,Traffic/road, school system)
6) Bad press from the player, we had a lot of player leave in recent year they might not say it out loud but the stories they share with other player aren't positive.
7) Fan Fan - the don't know anything about anything expect MTL (knowing what they are exposed to in the media we know why) they boo are own player, they get over excited and start planning the parade went we win one game they want to trade everyone for a dirty jock as soon as we lose a game.
Pretty much the above sums it up.

Montreal used to be a world-class city. Keyword(s): used-to-be

It's sad to see my city go down the gutter.


Last edited by simplysincere*: 07-03-2013 at 11:01 PM.
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Old
07-03-2013, 11:00 PM
  #59
Rumcajs
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Easy.

1. French.
2. Tax rate.
3. Too much pressure.
4. French.

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Old
07-03-2013, 11:37 PM
  #60
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Can't overlook this one...does The Wife like the move?

I understood that Brendan Shanahan's wife nixed a move from NJ to Montreal...

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Old
07-04-2013, 12:01 AM
  #61
Lozela
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The ***** GM making bs offers

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Old
07-04-2013, 12:22 AM
  #62
MasterDecoy
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read the lecavalier thread for answers to your question

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Old
07-04-2013, 12:51 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StellerEller View Post
In no order:

Tax, Pressure (fan and media), weather, incompetent management.

I think the 4th one could be done with (hopefully).

And frankly the cap should be amended for high-tax areas. For example, Montreal could sign someone for more than other teams but the cap hit should be after tax. Levels the playing field. Anyone think I'm on to something, or am I way off?
u wud also have to include something like cost of living in an area. i remember reading one time that a player who signed a contract in columbus for like 4m would need to sign a contract in nyc for over 7m just to balance out the costs of living in the 2 different areas.

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Old
07-04-2013, 12:51 AM
  #64
ECWHSWI
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Team culture.

If you were a talented forward UFA, would you really want to come to Montreal after watching the fiasco in Ottawa?

NHL players watch the playoff games just like we do. They saw Gallagher pounded shift after shift without anyone stepping up to stop it. Eller was dropped and nothing happened. Therrien whined to the media and embarrassed himself and this organization with his performance.

To attract big names, you have to have a complete change in hockey philosophy as reflected on the ice. Until then, we will watch the Lecavalier's of the NHL go to other teams where they need to only focus on playing hockey.

We will see what Bergevin does in the next week or so to address this issue.........if he does anything at all.
so, what you're saying is, you have no damn clue how it is for pro athletes in Montreal.

I see.

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07-04-2013, 12:53 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumcajs View Post
Easy.

1. French.
2. Tax rate.
3. Too much pressure.
4. French.
doubt any of the non french players ever HAVE to learn how to live in a different language (than elglish).

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07-04-2013, 01:15 AM
  #66
ChoseLa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumcajs View Post
Easy.

1. French.
2. Tax rate.
3. Too much pressure.
4. French.
Yeah because other english cities in Canada attract all the best UFAs.

It's mainly Taxes, Quebec and Ontario are roughly the same and they are both hockey crazed city. French has nothing to do with it, it just had to the mystic of the team and look at soccer, every players just go to the league that pays them the most, even if it's italian, spanish, english or even the feared french language.

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07-04-2013, 01:34 AM
  #67
Beendair Donedat
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I disagree. French has a lot to do with... Even the "pure laines" won't return "home." English (or non French) guys have been railroaded here - Mike Keane comes to mind. The language was and always has been an issue... As recently as the Cunneyworth fiasco with people crying that a unilingual Anglo was at the helm before he coached a game!!! We lost Muller because of the language... So many times this team has cut off it's nose to spite it's face.

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Old
07-04-2013, 02:56 AM
  #68
FlyingKostitsyn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beendair Donedat View Post
I disagree. French has a lot to do with... Even the "pure laines" won't return "home." English (or non French) guys have been railroaded here - Mike Keane comes to mind. The language was and always has been an issue... As recently as the Cunneyworth fiasco with people crying that a unilingual Anglo was at the helm before he coached a game!!! We lost Muller because of the language... So many times this team has cut off it's nose to spite it's face.
Language is a complete non issue. Only exceptions would be coach and perhaps captain, altho Gionta doesn't have that problem.

The players just have to show respect for the french language in the media during their first interview and claim they'll take classes (yeah right lol) and everyone gobbles it up.

As for their common lives? You can live in Montreal without knowing a single french word no problem, especially if you are a millionaire.

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07-04-2013, 03:21 AM
  #69
ChoseLa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beendair Donedat View Post
I disagree. French has a lot to do with... Even the "pure laines" won't return "home." English (or non French) guys have been railroaded here - Mike Keane comes to mind. The language was and always has been an issue... As recently as the Cunneyworth fiasco with people crying that a unilingual Anglo was at the helm before he coached a game!!! We lost Muller because of the language... So many times this team has cut off it's nose to spite it's face.
Mike Keen is the only exemple and it was contextual, bad management. I doubt we ever have a Coneyworth fiasco ever again, what was the management thinking? Gauthier was totaly out to lunch if didn't thought that taking a unilangual coach on the Habs would cause massive retardation. Muller knew like all the coach in the league that if they don't speak french they won't have the job, what does this have to do with the players?

Non-Factor.

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Old
07-04-2013, 06:36 AM
  #70
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I want the biggest contract I can get
I want to pay the least taxes I can pay.
I want the best weather I can get.
I want the least attention when I go out.
I want the least pressure to produce anything.
I want a Stanley Cup every year.
In other words, I want "MONEY FOR NOTHING AND MY CHICKS FOR FREE"

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07-04-2013, 07:01 AM
  #71
Monctonscout
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I don't think it's a prime location for UFA as in...if you had 20 UFA's and they made their top 5 list...the Habs wouldn't be in the top 5, but possibly in the top 10 or at least top 15. Teams like Boston Chicago LA Pittsburgh Detroit that have won cups and gotten to the finals the last 5-6 years make an interesting landing spot. I still see it as the Habs being in the top half of teams for sure though.

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Old
07-04-2013, 07:03 AM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChoseLa View Post
Mike Keen is the only exemple and it was contextual, bad management. I doubt we ever have a Coneyworth fiasco ever again, what was the management thinking? Gauthier was totaly out to lunch if didn't thought that taking a unilangual coach on the Habs would cause massive retardation. Muller knew like all the coach in the league that if they don't speak french they won't have the job, what does this have to do with the players?

Non-Factor.
The Habs had unilingual coaches before and it was a non issue.

Jeff Molson should have done a better job of diffusing the situation, instead he cowered and said it would be dealt with. Spineless.

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Old
07-04-2013, 07:29 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by JLP View Post
UFA season is upon us, and with it the arguments that plenty of these players choose to avoid the Habs. If so, what are the main reasons?

1. Is it that we're not seen as a contender? (I think we are close to being contenders.)

2. Is it "the pressure" of this market? (There's a relative loss of privacy off-ice when playing in Montreal, but it is the world's premier hockey city wouldn't some players thrive on that?)

3. Is it that the players' kids would have to go to a French-language school? (I think most millionaires can afford to send their kids to private school, does the Habs organization help with such logistics of relocation?)

4. Is it that the income tax rate is significantly higher in Québec?

5. The long cold winters?

Please let's not let this sink to a Québec-bashing thread. I seriously wonder if the "UFA avoid Montréal" phenomenon is real, and if so, why?

Ahhh. Higher taxes, colder climate, insane media pressure, haven't won in 20 years might be a factor. duh!

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Old
07-04-2013, 07:44 AM
  #74
Ozymandias
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StellerEller View Post
In no order:

Tax, Pressure (fan and media), weather, incompetent management.

I think the 4th one could be done with (hopefully).

And frankly the cap should be amended for high-tax areas. For example, Montreal could sign someone for more than other teams but the cap hit should be after tax. Levels the playing field. Anyone think I'm on to something, or am I way off?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLP View Post
I've also wondered about the NHL doing this. The computations would be complex but I agree it could level the playing field. Doubt it would happen though because the other teams wouldn't support a policy that only benefited the Habs.

On "incompetent management" I don't think the Habs are viewed this way any longer, they've been eclipsed by other franchises' incompetence in recent years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vsevolod Bobrov View Post
Income tax laws change all the time. Such a structure would be a nightmare to manage year in year out. For every team, and for the league who would have to monitor every state/province's regulation.
Some time ago, I proposed something similar, but not through the league.

What the Habs should do is lobby the provincial government to give a complete tax cut to the players and give a higher tax to the Habs to compensate.

Habs are too classy and Molson is just starting among the board of governors and that might be frowned upon, but come to think of it, PKP might just try that in the near future, and he'd probably get it too, POing Bettman and a few owners in the process. I don't like PKP, but that would be epic.

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Old
07-04-2013, 09:22 AM
  #75
Agnostic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Some time ago, I proposed something similar, but not through the league.

What the Habs should do is lobby the provincial government to give a complete tax cut to the players and give a higher tax to the Habs to compensate.

Habs are too classy and Molson is just starting among the board of governors and that might be frowned upon, but come to think of it, PKP might just try that in the near future, and he'd probably get it too, POing Bettman and a few owners in the process. I don't like PKP, but that would be epic.
I believe favouring millionaire athletes is a political non starter as far as tax breaks go. I think the answer is to have 30 adjustment multipliers that tailor the cap to a team's tax jurisdiction.

Hopefully global warming will come through for us and make the local climate like SoCal soon as well.

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