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C. Giroux: 8-year contract extension (ESPN: $66.2m, $8.275m AAV, NMC) upds in post #1

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07-05-2013, 06:48 AM
  #326
Akanon
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Some comments are just...


People are overreacting just a dat bit.. What you need to understand is that with the new CBA this will become the new norm for franchise/elite players. They will get paid and the cap hit will be higher because cap circumvention is not possible anymore.

I hoped Giroux would take a contract of about 7,5 mil/year but I'd much rather pay what he deserves than lose him!

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07-05-2013, 07:05 AM
  #327
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Originally Posted by OzFlyer View Post
Cough cough... David Booth, Ballard.
Florida signed those players to their contracts not Vancouver.

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07-05-2013, 07:08 AM
  #328
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Originally Posted by FlyerTime View Post
Crosby, Malkin, Lindros as a Flyer all have over a 100 point average per season.

You want to be paid like the big boys you better deliver

I will be happy if he has a 100 point average over 5 years and a Cup, anything less is not living up to the contract.
Malkin has been on a 100 point pace once in the last 4 seasons.

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07-05-2013, 07:23 AM
  #329
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Originally Posted by FlyerTime View Post
Crosby, Malkin, Lindros as a Flyer all have over a 100 point average per season.

You want to be paid like the big boys you better deliver

I will be happy if he has a 100 point average over 5 years and a Cup, anything less is not living up to the contract.
Crosby's scored 100 points 4 times, Malkin 3, Lindros once. People do not score 100 points per year. They may have the potential to, but it doesn't work out like that.

Contracts are about value, and a player that stays healthy can be more valuable than a more talented player that can't stay on the ice.

Since the 2010 Playoffs:

Giroux: 251 GP, 266 P, 98% of games played
Malkin: 211 GP, 214 P, 85% of games played
Crosby: 132 GP, 201 P, 79% of games played

Obviously he's the least talented of the 3, but he's also been at least as valuable.

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07-05-2013, 07:26 AM
  #330
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Originally Posted by Protest View Post
Crosby's scored 100 points 4 times, Malkin 3, Lindros once. People do not score 100 points per year. They may have the potential to, but it doesn't work out like that.

Contracts are about value, and a player that stays healthy can be more valuable than a more talented player that can't stay on the ice.

Since the 2010 Playoffs:

Giroux: 251 GP, 266 P, 98% of games played
Malkin: 211 GP, 214 P, 85% of games played
Crosby: 132 GP, 201 P, 79% of games played

Obviously he's the least talented of the 3, but he's also been at least as valuable.
That puts them at:

Giroux - 87 point pace
Malkin - 83 point pace
Crosby - 125 point pace

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07-05-2013, 07:28 AM
  #331
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Originally Posted by FlyerTime View Post
8 years at 7.3 is what I think he is worth, but I would not cry too much at 7.75
OH MY GOD!!!!! One of the best players in the NHL is overpaid by 500k!!! What a terrible contract.

So, if you were Holmgren, you would have played hardball with Giroux over 500k a year with a rising cap?

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07-05-2013, 07:32 AM
  #332
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Originally Posted by nevermore View Post
Malkin has been on a 100 point pace once in the last 4 seasons.
True, but has had 3 to G's zero, maybe I will lower my expectations to 94 point seasons, G has not even averaged over a point per season.

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07-05-2013, 07:34 AM
  #333
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Originally Posted by FlyerTime View Post
True, but has had 3 to G's zero, maybe I will lower my expectations to 94 point seasons, G has not even averaged over a point per season.
I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I'm pretty sure Giroux has averaged more than a point per season.

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07-05-2013, 07:37 AM
  #334
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Originally Posted by CS View Post
That puts them at:

Giroux - 87 point pace
Malkin - 83 point pace
Crosby - 125 point pace
and Crosby is the best player in the world when healthy and if you look at his first 8 years of his contract, the AAV is 10.8. Malkin got a AAV of 9.5

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07-05-2013, 07:37 AM
  #335
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Great signing by the Flyers (I'm a Pens fan) and barring any serious injuries will make them a dangerous team for years to come. Giroux seems like a prideful player, wanting to live up to his contract. I think this will motivate him even more, atleast in the first few years.

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07-05-2013, 07:39 AM
  #336
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Originally Posted by Mjoedgaard View Post
and Crosby is the best player in the world when healthy and if you look at his first 8 years of his contract, the AAV is 10.8. Malkin got a AAV of 9.5
And Giroux got 8.28, which is basically exactly where the scale falls down on him.

Basically his contract is right where it should be.

It's an obvious risk in terms of fall-off for production and injury, but all of these contracts are.

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07-05-2013, 07:40 AM
  #337
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Originally Posted by StevensCakeBakerBacker View Post
OH MY GOD!!!!! One of the best players in the NHL is overpaid by 500k!!! What a terrible contract.

So, if you were Holmgren, you would have played hardball with Giroux over 500k a year with a rising cap?
No her is over paid by a million not 500k

Yes i would play hardball for a 7.3 with a NT clause, and by the end of the year if he has shows he is worth more, I up the price but not over 8 million or he gets traded.

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07-05-2013, 07:42 AM
  #338
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Originally Posted by Koempel View Post
Great signing by the Flyers (I'm a Pens fan) and barring any serious injuries will make them a dangerous team for years to come. Giroux seems like a prideful player, wanting to live up to his contract. I think this will motivate him even more, atleast in the first few years.
One thing I want to point out is that, he didn't look like he had completely recovered from his injury in the DEL this season.

At playing at a sub-Giroux level, he was still PPG this year.

If he turns himself back on, he can be a 90-point player again, particularly with teams having another established center to key on.

Couturier and Schenn may be good, but they're not going to get the kind of defensive respect from opposing teams that Lecavalier will receive.

Teams keying on Giroux even slightly less will give him more freedom.

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07-05-2013, 07:46 AM
  #339
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Originally Posted by FlyerTime View Post
No her is over paid by a million not 500k

Yes i would play hardball for a 7.3 with a NT clause, and by the end of the year if he has shows he is worth more, I up the price but not over 8 million or he gets traded.
I don't know if a or is more appropriate so I'll just leave both. You don't let Giroux get away even if you think he's a mil overpaid (which he really isn't) you just deal with it.

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07-05-2013, 07:52 AM
  #340
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Originally Posted by CS View Post
That puts them at:

Giroux - 87 point pace
Malkin - 83 point pace
Crosby - 125 point pace
That doesn't even really matter though. When you're talking about value the totals are what's important. It doesn't matter who paced for what; if they're not actually playing they can't help you win.

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07-05-2013, 07:56 AM
  #341
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
I don't know if a or is more appropriate so I'll just leave both. You don't let Giroux get away even if you think he's a mil overpaid (which he really isn't) you just deal with it.
We all have to deal with it no mater if we like the deal or not, and if we have zero cups in the next 8 years we have to deal with that. on the other hand we win one cup I will be more then happy as will every one else, unless some want more.

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07-05-2013, 07:59 AM
  #342
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Originally Posted by FlyerTime View Post
True, but has had 3 to G's zero, maybe I will lower my expectations to 94 point seasons, G has not even averaged over a point per season.
Or maybe you could look at my post a few up from yours?

Or the post by the guy a few below yours who showed how much Crosby and Malkin got paid over the first 8 years of their contracts?

Or maybe you could look at the total price of the contract?

Or maybe you could not compare contracts signed during 2 different CBA's that have different rules about contract length's?

Or maybe you could look at Malkin's contract extension where he get's paid $9.5m over 8 years?

Or maybe you could look at Perry and Getzlaf's contracts?

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07-05-2013, 08:11 AM
  #343
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Originally Posted by FlyerTime View Post
No her is over paid by a million not 500k

Yes i would play hardball for a 7.3 with a NT clause, and by the end of the year if he has shows he is worth more, I up the price but not over 8 million or he gets traded.
Do you have any idea what an offer sheet to Guroux would look like, especially one he would actually sign? It would have a NMC, and it would probably bring him to a $9mill/yr AAV.

So, you play hardball with your best player, a top NHL talent over $1mill/yr when you know the cap is going to go up? You would also make him play the season, without a new deal, with intentions of trading him if he doesn't sign at 7.3 or play "better" to justify signing at over $8mill/yr.

So you risk a massive amount of production to save $8mill over 8 years while the cap is rising. Terrible idea...

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07-05-2013, 08:12 AM
  #344
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Originally Posted by StevensCakeBakerBacker View Post
Do you have any idea what an offer sheet to Guroux would look like, especially one he would actually sign? It would have a NMC, and it would probably bring him to a $9mill/yr AAV.
One that we wouldn't match would have to be around the 10m area.

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07-05-2013, 08:19 AM
  #345
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One that we wouldn't match would have to be around the 10m area.
The point was that delaying the Giroux extension to save some cap space is a stupid idea because your risk increases massively while your reward (at best) stays the same.

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07-05-2013, 08:22 AM
  #346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StevensCakeBakerBacker View Post
Do you have any idea what an offer sheet to Guroux would look like, especially one he would actually sign? It would have a NMC, and it would probably bring him to a $9mill/yr AAV.

So, you play hardball with your best player, a top NHL talent over $1mill/yr when you know the cap is going to go up? You would also make him play the season, without a new deal, with intentions of trading him if he doesn't sign at 7.3 or play "better" to justify signing at over $8mill/yr.

So you risk a massive amount of production to save $8mill over 8 years while the cap is rising. Terrible idea...
That's a good way to treat your captain and best player too. Probably wouldn't do anything to his relationship with the organization, and would guarantee him to be a lifelong Flyer. We seem to forget that the organization was holding all the cards in this situation...Giroux needs the Flyers more than the Flyers need Giroux. Homer got hosed. He should have held out and saved $750k. It was worth the risk. No chance that Homer holds out and Giroux wins a Hart trophy this year, thus upping the price, right? We all know he isn't going to have a good year and the price would have come down. What a feckless dolt!

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07-05-2013, 08:23 AM
  #347
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Originally Posted by Protest View Post
Or maybe you could look at my post a few up from yours?

Or the post by the guy a few below yours who showed how much Crosby and Malkin got paid over the first 8 years of their contracts?

Or maybe you could look at the total price of the contract?

Or maybe you could not compare contracts signed during 2 different CBA's that have different rules about contract length's?

Or maybe you could look at Malkin's contract extension where he get's paid $9.5m over 8 years?

Or maybe you could look at Perry and Getzlaf's contracts?
Or I can look at Gretzky or anything the guy said name one and I did Crosby
I looked at your numbers and you have Malkin at 83, I am sure he he averages over a point per game and close to the 100 point mark per season and has the hardware to prove his value. I just do not think G is worth his contract we win a cup I will change my opinion, I probably change my opinion if he wins some hardware. Time will tell

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07-05-2013, 08:26 AM
  #348
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Originally Posted by FlyerTime View Post
Or I can look at Gretzky or anything the guy said name one and I did Crosby
I looked at your numbers and you have Malkin at 83, I am sure he he averages over a point per game and close to the 100 point mark per season and has the hardware to prove his value. I just do not think G is worth his contract we win a cup I will change my opinion, I probably change my opinion if he wins some hardware. Time will tell
You still don't get the whole two different CBAs point, do you?

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07-05-2013, 08:30 AM
  #349
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I'm not going to lie, I kind of agree with FLYERTIME that we could have played hardball with giroux.

Now homer is not a hardball type of guy when it comes to contracts, but Giroux has made his home in philly and has identified himself as a flyer. He is the captain of our team and has many close relationships on the team and within the organization. would he really lose that all just for 500k more a year for 8 years? he probably could make that up in the endorsements that he will get playing in such a large market in philly in those 8 years not to mention the cush job that awaits him with the flyers once he retires.

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07-05-2013, 08:30 AM
  #350
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Or I can look at Gretzky or anything the guy said name one and I did Crosby
I looked at your numbers and you have Malkin at 83, I am sure he he averages over a point per game and close to the 100 point mark per season and has the hardware to prove his value. I just do not think G is worth his contract we win a cup I will change my opinion, I probably change my opinion if he wins some hardware. Time will tell
What's more useful for getting you too and from work, a Corvette that doesn't run or an Accord that does?

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