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C. Giroux: 8-year contract extension (ESPN: $66.2m, $8.275m AAV, NMC) upds in post #1

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07-05-2013, 08:31 AM
  #351
AaronTrieu
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I need to find a new message board. So many dramatic people here that are never happy unless their team fleeces someone in a trade and gets someone at a bargain coming from the khl.

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07-05-2013, 08:33 AM
  #352
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One of the reasons Flyers love our organization, and players keep coming back, and others take discounts to come here, and others try to abandon ship on their organization to be here (Weber), and we can still sign UFAs to long-term deals is because we don't screw with our players. We negotiate, but we don't play hardball. We are universally loyal to the players that show us loyalty.

Playing hardball with Giroux anymore than what is fair and reasonable would negate 40+ years of goodwill this organization has used to create a name for itself as one of the premier ones in the NHL to play for.

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07-05-2013, 08:33 AM
  #353
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I'm not going to lie, I kind of agree with FLYERTIME that we could have played hardball with giroux.

Now homer is not a hardball type of guy when it comes to contracts, but Giroux has made his home in philly and has identified himself as a flyer. He is the captain of our team and has many close relationships on the team and within the organization. would he really lose that all just for 500k more a year for 8 years? he probably could make that up in the endorsements that he will get playing in such a large market in philly in those 8 years not to mention the cush job that awaits him with the flyers once he retires.
Do you really want to upset your franchise player and captain though by playing hardball with him over 500k. There is a downside to that as well. He might feel as comfortable with the organization as he did before because we were low balling him. Homer knows when to play hard ball or not. This is one occasion you don't. Not with your franchise player.

Look at St. Louis and Nashville. They have two superstar defenders and are/were playing tough with their contracts. Nashville almost lost theirs because of it. If St. Louis signs a center for 5+million I offer sheet the hell out of pietrangelo. They don't have a ton of cap space anymore and still need petro and Stewart locked up

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07-05-2013, 08:35 AM
  #354
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Originally Posted by AaronTrieu View Post
I need to find a new message board. So many dramatic people here that are never happy unless their team fleeces someone in a trade and gets someone at a bargain coming from the khl.
No no stay. The other boards are the same as well. Just weed through the unhappy ones like the rest of us

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07-05-2013, 08:36 AM
  #355
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I'm not going to lie, I kind of agree with FLYERTIME that we could have played hardball with giroux.

Now homer is not a hardball type of guy when it comes to contracts, but Giroux has made his home in philly and has identified himself as a flyer. He is the captain of our team and has many close relationships on the team and within the organization. would he really lose that all just for 500k more a year for 8 years? he probably could make that up in the endorsements that he will get playing in such a large market in philly in those 8 years not to mention the cush job that awaits him with the flyers once he retires.
You can make up all these fantasy negotiating scenes, but that doesn't change the fact that the driving factor if the Giroux deal is that it is current market value.

Also, your point cuts both ways in a negotiation; and, in Girouxs position, the Flyers need him more than he needs them. Any team in the NHL would give Giroux a massive offer (except the pens, cause they already have two high end centers). What does the Flyers team look like without G? It looks a hell of a lot worse.

Would the Flyers be willing to lose Giroux over $500k/yr in freaking cap space?

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07-05-2013, 08:38 AM
  #356
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Originally Posted by AaronTrieu View Post
I need to find a new message board. So many dramatic people here that are never happy unless their team fleeces someone in a trade and gets someone at a bargain coming from the khl.
Just ignore them, or use the ignore button so you don't have to ignore them.

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07-05-2013, 08:41 AM
  #357
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Originally Posted by StevensCakeBakerBacker View Post
Do you have any idea what an offer sheet to Guroux would look like, especially one he would actually sign? It would have a NMC, and it would probably bring him to a $9mill/yr AAV.

So, you play hardball with your best player, a top NHL talent over $1mill/yr when you know the cap is going to go up? You would also make him play the season, without a new deal, with intentions of trading him if he doesn't sign at 7.3 or play "better" to justify signing at over $8mill/yr.

So you risk a massive amount of production to save $8mill over 8 years while the cap is rising. Terrible idea...
First of all I would not let it get to a point where he will receive an offer sheet.

This is a negotiation I say he is worth 7.3 he says over 8 and we start the season, if he gets injured or has a poor season I hold firm but entertain offers and see if I can get a Weber, if not offer a little more maybe 7.6, if he has a great year or wins some hardware I guess he gets closer to what he wants.

There is a reason I am not a GM and the same with the rest of on here, it is not an easy job, but we all think we are experts.

I actually think every player is over valued

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07-05-2013, 08:44 AM
  #358
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Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
Do you really want to upset your franchise player and captain though by playing hardball with him over 500k. There is a downside to that as well. He might feel as comfortable with the organization as he did before because we were low balling him. Homer knows when to play hard ball or not. This is one occasion you don't. Not with your franchise player.

Look at St. Louis and Nashville. They have two superstar defenders and are/were playing tough with their contracts. Nashville almost lost theirs because of it. If St. Louis signs a center for 5+million I offer sheet the hell out of pietrangelo. They don't have a ton of cap space anymore and still need petro and Stewart locked up
Don't forget that as the cap goes up, this already insignificant number becomes even smaller. If the cap stays the same, and we increase the difference from 500k to 1mill, the amount forcing Holmgren to dig his heals in is 1.5% of the total cap.

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07-05-2013, 08:47 AM
  #359
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What's more useful for getting you too and from work, a Corvette that doesn't run or an Accord that does?
Anyone that has a Corvette also has a second or third car and the money to call a cab

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07-05-2013, 08:50 AM
  #360
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First of all I would not let it get to a point where he will receive an offer sheet.

This is a negotiation I say he is worth 7.3 he says over 8 and we start the season, if he gets injured or has a poor season I hold firm but entertain offers and see if I can get a Weber, if not offer a little more maybe 7.6, if he has a great year or wins some hardware I guess he gets closer to what he wants.

There is a reason I am not a GM and the same with the rest of on here, it is not an easy job, but we all think we are experts.

I actually think every player is over valued
I'm saying Giroux was paid market value, you're making up some fantasy negotiation with Giroux.

As you let Giroux play out the season in your scenario above, you say you wouldn't let it get to the point of losing him via an offer sheet; however, that really wouldn't be your call. You can't make him sign a deal, especially after you pissed him off.

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07-05-2013, 08:56 AM
  #361
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For me it's not the money but the years I'm not crazy about. 5-6 years max would have been more palatable for me but Flyers don't have much choice..Giroux is their current franchise player although that title will pass to another Flyer within a few years IMO...

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07-05-2013, 08:56 AM
  #362
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Originally Posted by StevensCakeBakerBacker View Post
You still don't get the whole two different CBAs point, do you?
You asked me to name one player with a similar contract, you need not state which era or CBA,.

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07-05-2013, 09:08 AM
  #363
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You asked me to name one player with a similar contract, you need not state which era or CBA,.
I don't remember asking you to compare anything. What I remember is you stating G wasn't worth the money because Crisby gets $X.

Lets just say I did, a contract signed under a different CBA is not similar, it's completely different. Why not just compare Gs deal to what Lindros was paid; say G isn't as dominating as Lindros and pay him less than Big E?

Under the old CBA Gs hit would be 6.7/yr, now it's over 8.

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07-05-2013, 09:15 AM
  #364
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Originally Posted by CS View Post
One of the reasons Flyers love our organization, and players keep coming back, and others take discounts to come here, and others try to abandon ship on their organization to be here (Weber), and we can still sign UFAs to long-term deals is because we don't screw with our players. We negotiate, but we don't play hardball. We are universally loyal to the players that show us loyalty.

Playing hardball with Giroux anymore than what is fair and reasonable would negate 40+ years of goodwill this organization has used to create a name for itself as one of the premier ones in the NHL to play for.
This.

I read somewhere that Vinny had offers of more money but turned them down.

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07-05-2013, 09:15 AM
  #365
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Originally Posted by StevensCakeBakerBacker View Post
I'm saying Giroux was paid market value, you're making up some fantasy negotiation with Giroux.

As you let Giroux play out the season in your scenario above, you say you wouldn't let it get to the point of losing him via an offer sheet; however, that really wouldn't be your call. You can't make him sign a deal, especially after you pissed him off.
I already said It would not get to an offer sheet
It is called a negotiation you know where everyone stands and what you have to do to make the deal.
I guy asked me what i would do and I told him I am not a GM, but in real life I play hard ball. The deal is done i do not like it,I just want to win a Cup

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07-05-2013, 09:17 AM
  #366
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This.

I read somewhere that Vinny had offers of more money but turned them down.
His agent came out and said it.

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07-05-2013, 09:18 AM
  #367
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Originally Posted by StevensCakeBakerBacker View Post
I don't remember asking you to compare anything. What I remember is you stating G wasn't worth the money because Crisby gets $X.

Lets just say I did, a contract signed under a different CBA is not similar, it's completely different. Why not just compare Gs deal to what Lindros was paid; say G isn't as dominating as Lindros and pay him less than Big E?

Under the old CBA Gs hit would be 6.7/yr, now it's over 8.
Sorry, it was someone else that asked me.

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07-05-2013, 09:19 AM
  #368
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His agent came out and said it.
It is nice to know players will take less to play with the Flyers, it tells you something about our organization.

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07-05-2013, 09:21 AM
  #369
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Anyone that has a Corvette also has a second or third car and the money to call a cab

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07-05-2013, 09:22 AM
  #370
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Originally Posted by FlyerTime View Post
It is nice to know players will take less to play with the Flyers, it tells you something about our organization.
I'll say it again.

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Originally Posted by CS View Post
One of the reasons Flyers love our organization, and players keep coming back, and others take discounts to come here, and others try to abandon ship on their organization to be here (Weber), and we can still sign UFAs to long-term deals is because we don't screw with our players. We negotiate, but we don't play hardball. We are universally loyal to the players that show us loyalty.

Playing hardball with Giroux anymore than what is fair and reasonable would negate 40+ years of goodwill this organization has used to create a name for itself as one of the premier ones in the NHL to play for.

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07-05-2013, 09:28 AM
  #371
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Man I like Claude Giroux but you'd think his agent would have mentioned to him that a long term contract with the Flyers almost equates to the kiss of death; see Richards, Carter, Bryzgalov and Briere. Mind you, Flyers can't buy him out under the new CBA until after the next lock-out in about 10-11 years.

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07-05-2013, 09:32 AM
  #372
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Man I like Claude Giroux but you'd think his agent would have mentioned to him that a long term contract with the Flyers almost equates to the kiss of death; see Richards, Carter, Bryzgalov and Briere. Mind you, Flyers can't buy him out under the new CBA until after the next lock-out in about 10-11 years.
Oh, please. Including Briere in that list shows that you know nothing about the team.


Last edited by MiamiScreamingEagles: 07-05-2013 at 10:45 AM. Reason: PM sent
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07-05-2013, 09:45 AM
  #373
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Anyone that has a Corvette also has a second or third car and the money to call a cab

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07-05-2013, 09:59 AM
  #374
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Man I like Claude Giroux but you'd think his agent would have mentioned to him that a long term contract with the Flyers almost equates to the kiss of death; see Richards, Carter, Bryzgalov and Briere. Mind you, Flyers can't buy him out under the new CBA until after the next lock-out in about 10-11 years.
Yes! Claude's agent, who is responsible to extract top dollar for his client, tells his Claude "you shouldn't sign this massive $67,000,000 contract because Carter's agent called Holmgren a liar."

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07-05-2013, 10:06 AM
  #375
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Having Giroux for another 8 years and at that price is not bad at all. People want to play with Giroux and people know the Flyers are always contenders and will sign here on a discounted deal.

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