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Part IX: Free Agency Signing Period Discussion and Rumors

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Old
07-05-2013, 07:08 PM
  #26
CS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alchemy View Post
We are 1mil over the cap. We still wouldn't be cap compliant. I doubt Laughton makes the roster.
Hartnell (4.75) - Giroux (3.75) - Voracek (4.25)
Schenn (0.90) - Lecavalier (4.50) - Simmonds (3.98)
Laughton (0.93) - Couturier (0.93) - Read (0.90)
Rinaldo (0.75) - Hall (0.60) - Talbot (1.75)
Rosehill (0.68)

Timonen (6.00) - Schenn (3.60)
Streit (5.25) - Coburn (4.50)
Meszaros (4.00) - Grossmann (3.50)
Gervais (0.83) - Bourdon (0.61)

Mason (1.50)
Emery (1.75)

Pronger (+/- 4.92)
Bartulis (0.10)
Bonus Charge (0.18)

SALARY CAP: 64.30
CAP CHARGE: 60.49
CAP SPACE: 03.81

SUMMER SALARY CAP: 70.73
SUMMER CAP CHARGE: 65.41
SUMMER CAP SPACE: 05.32

We have plenty of room!

I don't know where people get their numbers from. Just reading Cap Geek will not give you the answer. You have to know how to use Cap Geek.

Those numbers also don't have Gustafsson involved. If you expect Gus to get more than 3.81m THEN we're in trouble. Until that time though, you should stop the idiotic meltdown because it's really annoying.

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Old
07-05-2013, 07:10 PM
  #27
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How is Mezaros going to be gone?

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Old
07-05-2013, 07:10 PM
  #28
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Not "you" in particular either, just the crazy people in general, whether they are from the main boards or here.

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Old
07-05-2013, 07:10 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by NHLAlert View Post
How long do RFA's have to accecpt a teams offer?
Yep, I have the same question, someone who knows respond to this please.

And by the way do you have an idea when might be schedule for 2013-14 season announced?

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Old
07-05-2013, 07:12 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by CS View Post
Hartnell (4.75) - Giroux (3.75) - Voracek (4.25)
Schenn (0.90) - Lecavalier (4.50) - Simmonds (3.98)
Laughton (0.93) - Couturier (0.93) - Read (0.90)
Rinaldo (0.75) - Hall (0.60) - Talbot (1.75)
Rosehill (0.68)

Timonen (6.00) - Schenn (3.60)
Streit (5.25) - Coburn (4.50)
Meszaros (4.00) - Grossmann (3.50)
Gervais (0.83) - Bourdon (0.61)

Mason (1.50)
Emery (1.75)

Pronger (+/- 4.92)
Bartulis (0.10)
Bonus Charge (0.18)

SALARY CAP: 64.30
CAP CHARGE: 60.49
CAP SPACE: 03.81

SUMMER SALARY CAP: 70.73
SUMMER CAP CHARGE: 65.41
SUMMER CAP SPACE: 05.32

We have plenty of room!

I don't know where people get their numbers from. Just reading Cap Geek will not give you the answer. You have to know how to use Cap Geek.

Those numbers also don't have Gustafsson involved. If you expect Gus to get more than 3.81m THEN we're in trouble. Until that time though, you should stop the idiotic meltdown because it's really annoying.
I don't think you understand how LTIR works. Putting Pronger on it doesn't immediately give us 4.9 mill in cap space from his contract. It allows us to replace his contract and spend over with a player from the minors. I didn't just look at capgeek. I read the CBA rules.

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Old
07-05-2013, 07:14 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alchemy View Post
I don't think you understand how LTIR works. Putting Pronger on it doesn't immediately give us 4.9 mill in cap space from his contract. I didn't just look at capgeek. I read the CBA rules.
What are you talking about?

That's what LTIR does by design. That's how it's worked forever.

How is it suddenly just not working that way anymore, and what makes you think it's not?

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07-05-2013, 07:21 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by CS View Post
What are you talking about?

That's what LTIR does by design. That's how it's worked forever.

How is it suddenly just not working that way anymore, and what makes you think it's not?
http://flyersfaithful.com/2012/06/18...jured-reserve/


Read. At the start of the season players will have to be sent down to be cap compliant. There is an accumulation of dollars every day. From the article it breaks down Prongers contract 16,602 per day. So the first day after he's on LTIR that is how much space we have we can use. As the days go along we continue to get more space. It's the banking principle in the rules.

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07-05-2013, 07:25 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CS View Post
Hartnell (4.75) - Giroux (3.75) - Voracek (4.25)
Schenn (0.90) - Lecavalier (4.50) - Simmonds (3.98)
Laughton (0.93) - Couturier (0.93) - Read (0.90)
Rinaldo (0.75) - Hall (0.60) - Talbot (1.75)
Rosehill (0.68)

Timonen (6.00) - Schenn (3.60)
Streit (5.25) - Coburn (4.50)
Meszaros (4.00) - Grossmann (3.50)
Gervais (0.83) - Bourdon (0.61)

Mason (1.50)
Emery (1.75)

Pronger (+/- 4.92)
Bartulis (0.10)
Bonus Charge (0.18)

SALARY CAP: 64.30
CAP CHARGE: 60.49
CAP SPACE: 03.81

SUMMER SALARY CAP: 70.73
SUMMER CAP CHARGE: 65.41
SUMMER CAP SPACE: 05.32

We have plenty of room!

I don't know where people get their numbers from. Just reading Cap Geek will not give you the answer. You have to know how to use Cap Geek.

Those numbers also don't have Gustafsson involved. If you expect Gus to get more than 3.81m THEN we're in trouble. Until that time though, you should stop the idiotic meltdown because it's really annoying.
thinking that its ok to dip into LTIR money before the season starts is dumb. we need to bank some in case you know we get injuries.

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Old
07-05-2013, 07:26 PM
  #34
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NVM. Haha. I read it wrong. The CBA can be confusing.

**** you Chris.

I still think Laughton gets sent down. We need the space. Why use all the LTIR up?

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Old
07-05-2013, 07:26 PM
  #35
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I just saw a Pittsburgh sports radio host refer to Pittsburgh as a "Hockey Mecca" on twitter when talking about the Scuderi signing.

I guess he's a 2005 and on fan.

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Old
07-05-2013, 07:29 PM
  #36
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I was thinking we couldn't sign any player or whatever but we can. But as GFH said we would be using that space up that we cannot get back.

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07-05-2013, 07:30 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alchemy View Post
http://flyersfaithful.com/2012/06/18...jured-reserve/


Read. At the start of the season players will have to be sent down to be cap compliant. There is an accumulation of dollars every day. From the article it breaks down Prongers contract 16,602 per day. So the first day after he's on LTIR that is how much space we have we can use. As the days go along we continue to get more space. It's the banking principle in the rules.
You seem to misunderstand something.

That effects us if we are looking to make more additions later in the year or at the trade deadline.

Regardless of whether or not Pronger's cap hit counts, we're spending 64.30m of space per day.

We're just technically allowed to go over it.

So saying we have "3.81m" in cap space, isn't exactly saying that we have "3.81m" in cap space, but it is for all intents and purposes, "3.81m" in cap space that we can either use or lose.

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07-05-2013, 07:34 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
thinking that its ok to dip into LTIR money before the season starts is dumb. we need to bank some in case you know we get injuries.
We can't really "bank" any.

We're using it all anyway unless we're dropping some serious salary now (which I'm not necessarily opposed to.)

That said, if you drop Meszaros' salary, you're still paying 0.92 of Pronger's salary on the "LTIR charge" meaning you just lost your ability to bank 0.92m to help down the road in case of injury.

So theoretically, it might be better to have that extra 4.00m already playing for you than just letting it go to waste since you can't bank it anyway.

Basically, this means you have to have your reserves all be able to fit under the SALARY CAP + LTIR limit, which is effectively fitting them all under the SALARY CAP - LTIR.

The + LTIR and - LTIR cancel out leaving you with just the salary cap.

It's all just a complicated way of saying that Pronger's cap hit doesn't count.

However, you are hampered with your deadline acquisitions since you can't bank cap space now.

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Old
07-05-2013, 07:37 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alchemy View Post
NVM. Haha. I read it wrong. The CBA can be confusing.

**** you Chris.

I still think Laughton gets sent down. We need the space. Why use all the LTIR up?
More than LTIR, we need cheap and movable bodies.

Having flexibility among your mobile parts makes the LTIR dance far more manageable.

Calling players up and sending them down is costly if they don't fall under the pre-cut-off for waiver eligibility.

Laughton becomes more valuable because of his flexibility but not entirely because he can't go to the OHL.

This is where guys like McGinn really become the missing pieces.

This is also going to be hard on Gustafsson since I believe he's beyond the market for waivers. He's either in the lineup, in the pressbox, or waived. I have to double check that, but it scares me because committing to Meszaros may be problematic for Gustafsson's development.

It also would limit his ability to be a call-up should he end up back in the AHL.

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Old
07-05-2013, 07:39 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by CS View Post
We can't really "bank" any.

We're using it all anyway unless we're dropping some serious salary now (which I'm not necessarily opposed to.)

That said, if you drop Meszaros' salary, you're still paying 0.92 of Pronger's salary on the "LTIR charge" meaning you just lost your ability to bank 0.92m to help down the road in case of injury.

So theoretically, it might be better to have that extra 4.00m already playing for you than just letting it go to waste since you can't bank it anyway.

Basically, this means you have to have your reserves all be able to fit under the SALARY CAP + LTIR limit, which is effectively fitting them all under the SALARY CAP - LTIR.

The + LTIR and - LTIR cancel out leaving you with just the salary cap.

It's all just a complicated way of saying that Pronger's cap hit doesn't count.

However, you are hampered with your deadline acquisitions since you can't bank cap space now.
Please state as a matter of record the date for 2013 when you are required (as a team) to be cap compliant coming out of the offseason?

Next, state the date when you can officially place a player on LTIR.

Hint: They are not the same day and the LTIR date (inconveniently) occurs closer to the start of the season than the cap compliance date. You cannot use LTIR overage to cover from an offseason overage. Period.

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07-05-2013, 07:39 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
I just saw a Pittsburgh sports radio host refer to Pittsburgh as a "Hockey Mecca" on twitter when talking about the Scuderi signing.

I guess he's a 2005 and on fan.
well in his defense that is the year hockey was invented

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07-05-2013, 07:42 PM
  #42
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I'm so freaking confused.

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07-05-2013, 07:46 PM
  #43
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I'm so freaking confused.
Don't be, we are all good =)

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07-05-2013, 07:54 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CS View Post
We can't really "bank" any.

We're using it all anyway unless we're dropping some serious salary now (which I'm not necessarily opposed to.)

That said, if you drop Meszaros' salary, you're still paying 0.92 of Pronger's salary on the "LTIR charge" meaning you just lost your ability to bank 0.92m to help down the road in case of injury.

So theoretically, it might be better to have that extra 4.00m already playing for you than just letting it go to waste since you can't bank it anyway.

Basically, this means you have to have your reserves all be able to fit under the SALARY CAP + LTIR limit, which is effectively fitting them all under the SALARY CAP - LTIR.

The + LTIR and - LTIR cancel out leaving you with just the salary cap.

It's all just a complicated way of saying that Pronger's cap hit doesn't count.

However, you are hampered with your deadline acquisitions since you can't bank cap space now.
without Pronger's cap hit we are at 63.2
let me ask you this. How much more are you ok adding in salary before the season starts. I think someone needs to go in the top 6. Unless you want to give Gus the Patrick Sharp treatment.

EDIT: ok so maybe banking was the wrong word. we have Pronger's cap hit available to use. But only if we are at the cap ceiling. Some of that has to be available to the team during the season. if it isnt you are just asking for trouble.

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07-05-2013, 07:55 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
Please state as a matter of record the date for 2013 when you are required (as a team) to be cap compliant coming out of the offseason?

Next, state the date when you can officially place a player on LTIR.

Hint: They are not the same day and the LTIR date (inconveniently) occurs closer to the start of the season than the cap compliance date. You cannot use LTIR overage to cover from an offseason overage. Period.
59.74m is how much we're spending right now not including Pronger, Bartulis' buyout, and the bonus charge for our ELCs.

Pronger pushes that number to 64.66m.

That is 00.36m over the salary cap.

However the summer cap is 70.73m meaning we still technically have 06.07m remaining space for the offseason 10% cushion.

Now, taking away Pronger's cap charge through LTIR, we put our total salary cap charge for this roster down to 59.74m meaning we have 04.56m in usable cap space for the season right now with this current roster (not including Gustafsson).

So what you're saying is that from the window between the end of the summer cap compliance date and the opening window of the LTIR period (which begins the first day of the season IIRC), we need to find 0.36m in cap space as well as the money for Gustafsson should he not be waived to the AHL?

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07-05-2013, 07:56 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
without Pronger's cap hit we are at 63.2
let me ask you this. How much more are you ok adding in salary before the season starts. I think someone needs to go in the top 6. Unless you want to give Gus the Patrick Sharp treatment.
Without Pronger's cap hit we are 59.74m.

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07-05-2013, 07:58 PM
  #47
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It's pretty obvious Mez is the odd man out. Gus should start on the third pair.

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07-05-2013, 08:03 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by CS View Post
So what you're saying is that from the window between the end of the summer cap compliance date and the opening window of the LTIR period (which begins the first day of the season IIRC), we need to find 0.36m in cap space as well as the money for Gustafsson should he not be waived to the AHL?
Basically, yes.

There was a post where this was addressed either last year or the year before in the business section. The upper edge of the salary cap is defined on "the last day of training camp", which is essentially the date of the last pre-season game. It includes all of that last day. LTIR accrual does not begin until the first day of the season even if the player can technically be placed on LTIR earlier. Because of the slight divergence in the "time it hits the account" as it is traditionally explained that the salary cap is like a bank account. You can't cash a check for dollars that you know will be hitting your account, but have yet to actually do so.

I'll try to find the thread where this was explained again. I just found it for someone else a couple weeks age when I was asked.

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07-05-2013, 08:03 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
thinking that its ok to dip into LTIR money before the season starts is dumb. we need to bank some in case you know we get injuries.
But we're already pretty much at cap (just over) with Pronger on the team. In which case there's not going to be much to bank anyway and as you cant bank LTIR money you might as well spend it.

If we ran with an opening night 20 man roster (21 if you include Pronger) we'd be $1m under the cap. That doesn't include Gustafsson. You'd think that would use up that million so there's nothing to bank bar some lose change. In that case you might as well use Prongers LTIR money.

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07-05-2013, 08:03 PM
  #50
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CS, don't you have to include wellwood?

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