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Part IX: Free Agency Signing Period Discussion and Rumors

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Old
07-05-2013, 08:03 PM
  #51
FLYERSFAN18
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If we trade Meszaros without receiving any salary back, send Laughton to the OHL, sign Gus for 1.25, and sign Gagne for 2 Mil this is what we will have


CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.750m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Jakub Voracek ($4.250m)
Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Vincent Lecavalier ($4.500m) / Wayne Simmonds ($3.975m)
Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Matt Read ($0.900m)
Simon Gagne ($2.000m) / Adam Hall ($0.600m) / Zac Rinaldo ($0.750m)
Jay Rosehill ($0.675m)
DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.000m) / Luke Schenn ($3.600m)
Mark Streit ($5.250m) / Braydon Coburn ($4.500m)
Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m) / Bruno Gervais ($0.825m)
Marc-Andre Bourdon ($0.613m) / Chris Pronger ($4.941m)
Erik Gustafsson ($1.250m) /
GOALTENDERS
Ray Emery ($1.650m)
Steve Mason ($1.500m)
OTHER
Buyout: Oskars Bartulis ($0.100m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $66,296,856; BONUSES: $2,800,000
CAP SPACE (24-man roster): $803,144

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Old
07-05-2013, 08:05 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
It's pretty obvious Mez is the odd man out. Gus should start on the third pair.
Agreed. I just really have a hard time believing that believing that Gus won't have that spot when he played well down the stretch, makes substantially less and is waiver eligible (I believe). Makes 0 sense to put all your eggs in the Mez basket while losing an asset like Gus.

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Old
07-05-2013, 08:06 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
Basically, yes.

There was a post where this was addressed either last year or the year before in the business section. The upper edge of the salary cap is defined on "the last day of training camp", which is essentially the date of the last pre-season game. It includes all of that last day. LTIR accrual does not begin until the first day of the season even if the player can technically be placed on LTIR earlier. Because of the slight divergence in the "time it hits the account" as it is traditionally explained that the salary cap is like a bank account. You can't cash a check for dollars that you know will be hitting your account, but have yet to actually do so.

I'll try to find the thread where this was explained again. I just found it for someone else a couple weeks age when I was asked.
I remember something about this from years prior, but I don't exactly know the details.

If you could find out some more information that would be helpful to see what the exact dollar amounts we need to "discover" are.

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Old
07-05-2013, 08:08 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYERSFAN18 View Post
If we trade Meszaros without receiving any salary back, send Laughton to the OHL, sign Gus for 1.25, and sign Gagne for 2 Mil this is what we will have
Or we could just not sign Gagne, let one of Akeson/McGinn/Straka/Laughton/ Noebels/Flannigan come into camp and compete for a job. I actually like our in-house options a lot more than I like the risk of Gagne.

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Old
07-05-2013, 08:08 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by MRxBLACK View Post
CS, don't you have to include wellwood?
Why would we have to include Wellwood?

The only player we have to include right now is Bourdon because he's injured. Wellwood doesn't even currently have a signed contract anyway.

Actually, Bourdon's 0.61m could be used to offset some of the salary should he become healthy before the end of training camp.

That's 0.61m we could bank toward this cut-off date. We'd still need to find more though theoretically if we sign Gustafsson and keep him on the roster over the cut-off period.

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Old
07-05-2013, 08:12 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYERSFAN18 View Post
If we trade Meszaros without receiving any salary back, send Laughton to the OHL, sign Gus for 1.25, and sign Gagne for 2 Mil this is what we will have


CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.750m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Jakub Voracek ($4.250m)
Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Vincent Lecavalier ($4.500m) / Wayne Simmonds ($3.975m)
Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Matt Read ($0.900m)
Simon Gagne ($2.000m) / Adam Hall ($0.600m) / Zac Rinaldo ($0.750m)
Jay Rosehill ($0.675m)
DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.000m) / Luke Schenn ($3.600m)
Mark Streit ($5.250m) / Braydon Coburn ($4.500m)
Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m) / Bruno Gervais ($0.825m)
Marc-Andre Bourdon ($0.613m) / Chris Pronger ($4.941m)
Erik Gustafsson ($1.250m) /
GOALTENDERS
Ray Emery ($1.650m)
Steve Mason ($1.500m)
OTHER
Buyout: Oskars Bartulis ($0.100m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $66,296,856; BONUSES: $2,800,000
CAP SPACE (24-man roster): $803,144
We need to stop using the 3.11m, 1.38m, and 1.11m figures for Schenn, Couturier, and Laughton.

We can't bank any salary off the cushion anyway because of Pronger, so the only way we can really effectively use the bonus cushion is by applying all of it each season in advance.

Because of Pronger, the cap hits for Schenn (0.90), Couturier (0.93), and Laughton (0.93) are the basic charges effectively.

This will cost us in cap space each successive year should they reach their bonuses, just like the 0.18m charge we're taking on in penalties this season, but it creates a false number if you're not using all of it. That's because the Pronger LTIR automatically reduces our "official cap space" to zero no matter what we do.

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Old
07-05-2013, 08:12 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by CS View Post
The only player we have to include right now is Bourdon because he's injured. Wellwood doesn't even currently have a signed contract anyway.
Are we sure about Bourdon being hurt? I thought he was cleared? I know Mez won't be cleared until late July, but I believe that Bourdon has been skating and plans to be at prospect camp next week.

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Old
07-05-2013, 08:14 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
Are we sure about Bourdon being hurt? I thought he was cleared? I know Mez won't be cleared until late July, but I believe that Bourdon has been skating and plans to be at prospect camp next week.
If Bourdon has been cleared then he can be moved off the official roster along with his 0.61m cap hit.

I haven't heard that this has taken place yet, so until I know otherwise, I'm leaving him on the number tally for the official roster.

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Old
07-05-2013, 08:14 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by 3Fs View Post
I am sooooo glad we signed VL before todays overpaying BS happened....seriously 6mil?? wth, Been better off just giving Norton what he asked for..woulda been cheaper.
Man, no kidding. The Lecavalier deal looks sweet. If he were around today he'd be making at least 6 mil based on today's figures.

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Old
07-05-2013, 08:15 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CS View Post
We need to stop using the 3.11m, 1.38m, and 1.11m figures for Schenn, Couturier, and Laughton.

We can't bank any salary off the cushion anyway because of Pronger, so the only way we can really effectively use the bonus cushion is by applying all of it each season in advance.

Because of Pronger, the cap hits for Schenn (0.90), Couturier (0.93), and Laughton (0.93) are the basic charges effectively.

This will cost us in cap space each successive year should they reach their bonuses, just like the 0.18m charge we're taking on in penalties this season, but it creates a false number if you're not using all of it. That's because the Pronger LTIR automatically reduces our "official cap space" to zero no matter what we do.
Im only using those numbers because that is what is in cap geek

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Old
07-05-2013, 08:16 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
Please state as a matter of record the date for 2013 when you are required (as a team) to be cap compliant coming out of the offseason?

Next, state the date when you can officially place a player on LTIR.

Hint: They are not the same day and the LTIR date (inconveniently) occurs closer to the start of the season than the cap compliance date. You cannot use LTIR overage to cover from an offseason overage. Period.
This is exactly what I was trying to say a long time ago now. Where was this when I was trying to explain it?

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Old
07-05-2013, 08:16 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYERSFAN18 View Post
Im only using those numbers because that is what is in cap geek
I know, but they don't effect us. We don't have the luxury of applying any bonuses to Schenn, Couturier, and Laughton as they happen so it's pointless. It only gives us a cap number that is artificially 2.84m over what our actual cap charge is.

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Old
07-05-2013, 08:17 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
Are we sure about Bourdon being hurt? I thought he was cleared? I know Mez won't be cleared until late July, but I believe that Bourdon has been skating and plans to be at prospect camp next week.
Meltzer said he is finally healthy.

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Bill-...0#.UddvwGS9Kc0

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Old
07-05-2013, 08:19 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
Meltzer said he is finally healthy.

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Bill-...0#.UddvwGS9Kc0
Well then Marc-Andre Bourdon is "healthy," but is he officially so?

Either way, he won't be on our opening roster so either by demotion or waiver wire, he will be in the AHL (unless by some unlikely force of god he ends up being our 7th over Gervais).

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07-05-2013, 08:23 PM
  #65
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I'm also curious about Wellwood. Do we have to carry his cap hit?

Also, no way we let Gus walk or try sneaking him through waivers. That would be a horrible mistake. If we stand pat, him or Mesz will just be a healthy scratch until an injury occurs.

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Old
07-05-2013, 08:23 PM
  #66
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Bourdon's health (assuming he will be relegated to the AHL in one way or another) puts our actual current cap charge at:

59.13

That leaves 05.17 in space on our operating roster for the season not including Gustafsson.

With Pronger included in the offseason, that pushes our number to:

64.05

Effectively, that means we ARE OFFICIALLY CAP COMPLIANT for both the summer period ending at the end of the preseason and the opening day cap compliance notice.

That, however, is still without Gustafsson's numbers included.

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Old
07-05-2013, 08:24 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by CS View Post
We need to stop using the 3.11m, 1.38m, and 1.11m figures for Schenn, Couturier, and Laughton.

We can't bank any salary off the cushion anyway because of Pronger, so the only way we can really effectively use the bonus cushion is by applying all of it each season in advance.

Because of Pronger, the cap hits for Schenn (0.90), Couturier (0.93), and Laughton (0.93) are the basic charges effectively.

This will cost us in cap space each successive year should they reach their bonuses, just like the 0.18m charge we're taking on in penalties this season, but it creates a false number if you're not using all of it. That's because the Pronger LTIR automatically reduces our "official cap space" to zero no matter what we do.
Nope I'm still confused. Can we therefore spend the Bouns Cushion ($2.8m) and then just pay it back next year if the bounses are met? I get that putting Pronger on LTIR doesn't 'free up' cap space but effectively adds his daily cap hit onto the NHL wide cap limit, and that that can't be banked to use later, but if we can use the Bonus Cusion are we not under the cap now, with a little banking room?

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Old
07-05-2013, 08:27 PM
  #68
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What is the deal with Schenns cap hit? What are the bonuses hes reached that bumped his hit up that high? He hasnt really accomplished that much lol

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07-05-2013, 08:33 PM
  #69
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Nope I'm still confused. Can we therefore spend the Bouns Cushion ($2.8m) and then just pay it back next year if the bounses are met? I get that putting Pronger on LTIR doesn't 'free up' cap space but effectively adds his daily cap hit onto the NHL wide cap limit, and that that can't be banked to use later, but if we can use the Bonus Cusion are we not under the cap now, with a little banking room?
Basically, should ELC players reach their bonuses, teams are allowed to retroactively charge them to the banked money through the course of the season.

We're not banking any cap space though. Sure, we can use Pronger's cap space to go above the cap where adding additional players is concerned, but that doesn't mean we just get his money, as was pointed out.

So basically, since we have no banked money, our only option is to push those bonus charges onto the next season since the CBA gives you that option as well.

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07-05-2013, 08:34 PM
  #70
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Most of Schenns bonuses are unreachable.

http://flyersfocus.net/2011/10/04/br...ap-gymnastics/

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07-05-2013, 08:34 PM
  #71
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What is the deal with Schenns cap hit? What are the bonuses hes reached that bumped his hit up that high? He hasnt really accomplished that much lol
One of the bonuses he achieved this year was being top 6 in TOI among forwards for the season. Stupid things like that.

Others are like winning a Stanley Cup or winning the MVP, etc.

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07-05-2013, 08:35 PM
  #72
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I'm also curious about Wellwood. Do we have to carry his cap hit?

Also, no way we let Gus walk or try sneaking him through waivers. That would be a horrible mistake. If we stand pat, him or Mesz will just be a healthy scratch until an injury occurs.
From Bill Metzler:

Quote:
All the qualifying offers were expected. However, Wellwood's gruesome self-inflicted skate cut that severed tendons in his leg and will require at least nine months of recovery time creates some complications once he re-signs. National Hockey League teams are not allowed to waive/demote injured players down to the American Hockey League which means Philly will have to carry Wellwood and his $594,000 salary (assuming he accepts the qualifying offer) on their NHL roster and salary cap number until he's medically cleared.
http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Bill-...0#.Udd0LfnVBmt

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07-05-2013, 08:37 PM
  #73
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So once Wellwood sings, if he's not medically cleared by the end of training camp, we have another cap charge to worry about.

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07-05-2013, 08:44 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Go For It View Post
From Bill Metzler:

...
So, if Holmgren re-signs Wellwood, regardless of whether he was going to play for the Flyers or not, the club gets an instant credit of 500K against the cap (LTIR). If he were healthy, we again assume the Flyers re-sign Wellwood, and he spends all season with the Phantoms, the Flyers receive no cap penalty or credit. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but I see only blue skies.

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07-05-2013, 08:46 PM
  #75
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Actually in his third year, he has to be an All Star to get that big bonus.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=377385

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