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Softest team in the NHL

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Old
07-05-2013, 09:06 PM
  #26
Barbara Underhill
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Know how many major penalties the Blackhawks had in the entire playoffs? One. Shaw fought Marchand. Bruins had 6 the Marchand fight, Thornton vs. Dorsett and Fraser, Bergeron against Malkin, Campbell against Dorsett, and Kelly vs. Komarov.

As far as major penalties go there were 35 in the entire playoffs out of 16 teams. Fighting isn't nearly as prominent in the playoffs now a days.

Toughness/Gritiness can't be measured in the same way, but I certainly don't think we were afraid of the Bruins, and Chicago certainly wasn't. We need players with some size that can set up in front, and players who are effective at hitting on the forecheck, which we have.

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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
I think the tough guy club has been doing a lot of recruiting lately.

Detroit is a model franchise. Where are the tough guys on their team? Kronwall is a big hitter. But other than him, who do they have? Bertuzzi is 38 and hardly plays any more. They signed Tootoo and he played 1 game in the playoffs.

I'd love for this team to add more players who are both physical and can play the game. But unfortunately, there weren't many players like that available, and the ones that were cost way too much.

Kreider is a big kid. He may not be a prototypical power forward, but he is super strong on his skates and can fly. He will get his share of hits.

We've got guys like McIlrath and Noreau waiting in the wings. We just drafted another kid like them in Graves. We need a couple mean SOBs on the offensive side, but in the absence of that, I'll take the "soft" skilled guy over the "offensive void" tough guy any day.
Bolded is the key, a lot of posters seem to think they grow on trees.

As you mentioned our future looks plenty tough.

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07-05-2013, 09:07 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
Where did all the "softest team in the NHL posters" come from?
Joe Thornton?

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07-05-2013, 09:07 PM
  #28
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1990
Underrated response.

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07-05-2013, 09:11 PM
  #29
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LOL...our PP will deter teams from running over Hank every 4 minutes . I think Hank should shout out for some Billy Smith coaching help...he might have to start wielding the big stick .

I'm willing to experiment with the more uptempo gameplan...but when other teams start running a few of our guys from behind...I want an equalization plan that actually works...and not Sam exclaiming how we are outshooting them badly again tonight but continue to be stymied by a hot goalie !

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07-05-2013, 09:13 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
I'm not really big into the whole soft vs. tough argument.

If you are in the NHL you have learned to play the pro game and know what it takes to get the job done. The Rangers scouts aren't idiots. The Rangers are not soft. They are a gritty team who have shown they are capable of blocking tons of shots at the risk of putting themselves out of the lineup. It's not just about fighting or checking or size. A lot has to be done to win in this league.

This argument is garbage IMO and is manufactured at the convenience of fans who feel teams need to emulate what they feel makes a successful team. It really only takes 2 or 3 guys to make a team appear tougher than it really is. It boils down to perseverance and resolve, and I think the Rangers have plenty of it, especially with their core players and in net.

The margin of success in this league is not very large. A bounce here or there and things can take off one way or another for a team. A key injury or hot streak can propel you into the next round of the playoffs. That has nothing to do with toughness. I'm not going to dismiss the toughness factor completely, because I thought the Rangers missed a lot of it from the prior year. But that team could have been out in the first round just as easily as last season when they were throttled by The B's
The Rangers don't have a single guy even close to as tough and effective as the guy you have in your avatar. That's a fact. Boston gets the job done when it comes to hitting and fighting. Makes it a lot easier for a guy like Krug then to come out of nowhere and make an impact. The Rangers got out forechecked against Boston all series long. They had enough problems just against the Caps bigger, stronger forwards. And of course it doesn't mean anything that Lucic, Chara, McQuaid and Thornton all fight very well and that there were other guys like Campbell, Ference and Boynton willing to go anytime. And the Rangers didn't quite have the same willingness. And no one on the Rangers is in the same ballpark as far as chippiness goes with Marchand.

So besides all that do I think the Bruins had a more talented team? Yep.

But they didn't have Lundqvist. The problem was they crashed the net and corners so much and almost all of the Bruins goals were deflections, screens etc--pucks that Henrik didn't see because his defense got pushed back on top of him too often. That's got nothing to do with toughness? Which Rangers player in our lineup was really pushing back against Lucic? Which one of them do you think could hold his own if push came to shove dropping the gloves with Milan? He kicked the ***** (Irish term for ****--see if it will get pass the censors) out of Prust last year. Asham is kind of in the same league with Prust. Dorsett not. The fact is Milan went where he wanted to go and unless you can find an antidote for that that doesn't involve taking back territory by force you're going to lose at least most of the battles.

Back to your avatar player. That was a guy that was willing to fight for every inch of territory he could and do anything and everything it took to take it.

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07-05-2013, 09:14 PM
  #31
Barbara Underhill
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Not many teams have Adam Graves.

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07-05-2013, 09:18 PM
  #32
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I agree..Moore tough because he finishes checks at all 178 pounds?? Please..There is hope my friend...Hopefully McIlrath comes shortly followed by Noreau...We have Dorsett...Hopefully Mashinter can step up this year and give us an edge...With those 4 guys we should be ok





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Originally Posted by Hockeyplayer99 View Post
Moore, Pouliot and Aaron Johnson, not much in terms of physical play there to go along with all of our other non physical players, I think the Rangers will be the softest team in the league this year. As if we weren't soft last year we are even softer this year. You don't win a playoff series with a physically weak team like ours. Oh well another year of us being a bad team. Different coach, but same results unless we start to get guys who can actually play physical and play the game we will not go far in the playoffs, maybe regular season we can be decent for the 6-8 spot if we are lucky as all the teams in the east seemed to have improved greatly and we haven't.

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07-05-2013, 09:21 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Zil View Post
It's amazing to me that people continue to confuse a lack of forward depth and an extreme collapsing defensive system with some unforgivable lack of toughness. We didn't lose to the Bruins because they were tougher than us. We lost because they played better hockey than we did.
This. Our top 6 was relied on so heavily that they were gassed by game 3.

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07-05-2013, 09:22 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surf View Post
I agree..Moore tough because he finishes checks at all 178 pounds?? Please..There is hope my friend...Hopefully McIlrath comes shortly followed by Noreau...We have Dorsett...Hopefully Mashinter can step up this year and give us an edge...With those 4 guys we should be ok
Cally finishes checks at 185, ask Erskine if he hits hard...

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07-05-2013, 09:22 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surf View Post
I agree..Moore tough because he finishes checks at all 178 pounds?? Please..There is hope my friend...Hopefully McIlrath comes shortly followed by Noreau...We have Dorsett...Hopefully Mashinter can step up this year and give us an edge...With those 4 guys we should be ok
Well at least you're familiar with what's going on enough to mention Mashinter. Rangers think they have the guys they need with Dorsett, Haley, Mashinter, and in the future McIlrath and possibly Noreau. Not to mention this is the first day of free agency, and there is a long way to go between now and October.

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07-05-2013, 09:24 PM
  #36
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yea 185lbs hitting you or 230 pound person hitting you who hits harder. Our guys who actually weigh over 200lbs don't hit anything. The only ones who hit are small guys who don't do much damage.

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07-05-2013, 09:26 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeyplayer99 View Post
yea 185lbs hitting you or 230 pound person hitting you who hits harder. Our guys who actually weigh over 200lbs don't hit anything. The only ones who hit are small guys who don't do much damage.
I wish Rick Nash would hit people.

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07-05-2013, 09:27 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
Not many teams have Adam Graves.
No they don't and the 94 team had a lot more tough guys than just Graves. Boston is a much much closer model to the Rangers 94 team than the Rangers are. With all the muscle the Bruins have every player on that team has to feel supported whenever they're on the ice. That if something happens to them pay back will be on the way.

Lucic is a bigger, less versatile version of Graves--that he is good enough to play on Boston's two top lines is key though. The Rangers have a need for McIlrath to do the same. I agree that it's a waste of time signing the Boogaard's, Brashear's and the Rupp's if they can't make themselves useful in other ways. It's a tricky balance is right.

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07-05-2013, 09:29 PM
  #39
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Familiar with?? LOL..Ive been bleeding blue for close to 40 years...How about you??




Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
Well at least you're familiar with what's going on enough to mention Mashinter. Rangers think they have the guys they need with Dorsett, Haley, Mashinter, and in the future McIlrath and possibly Noreau. Not to mention this is the first day of free agency, and there is a long way to go between now and October.

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07-05-2013, 09:29 PM
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yea 185lbs hitting you or 230 pound person hitting you who hits harder. Our guys who actually weigh over 200lbs don't hit anything. The only ones who hit are small guys who don't do much damage.
I'll appease you for a moment. First off and not sure if this was you, but guys don't play like Adam Graves anymore because the game is played a completely different way. Stop being stuck in the 90's, this is a new, completely different, NHL.

Second, Brian Boyle hits very hard. He can't fight for ****, but the guy nails people. Chris Kreider is one of the hardest hitters on the team and I think will be a force for years to come.

Seidenberg said this after the game where Kreider scored the OT winner.

Quote:
“They were hard hits. I’m fine,” Seidenberg, who was returning to the lineup from an injury, said of Kreider’s hit. “He’s a thick kid, and usually that doesn’t happen, but I just lost balance.”
We don't need a heavyweight, we have a bunch of nasty, tough, players.

Callahan
Dorsett
Boyle
Moore
Kreider

Our D-Core in general is very tough and throws pretty big hits.

Enforcers are a thing of the past and the sooner you and others get over that, the direction of this team will be much easier for you to understand.

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07-05-2013, 09:31 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Punxrocknyc19 View Post
I wish Rick Nash would hit people.
Rick Nash was not brought here to hit people, he was brought here to score goals.

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07-05-2013, 09:33 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by 16 To Stanley View Post
I'll appease you for a moment. First off and not sure if this was you, but guys don't play like Adam Graves anymore because the game is played a completely different way. Stop being stuck in the 90's, this is a new, completely different, NHL.

Second, Brian Boyle hits very hard. He can't fight for ****, but the guy nails people. Chris Kreider is one of the hardest hitters on the team and I think will be a force for years to come.

Seidenberg said this after the game where Kreider scored the OT winner.



We don't need a heavyweight, we have a bunch of nasty, tough, players.

Callahan
Dorsett
Boyle
Moore
Kreider

Our D-Core in general is very tough and throws pretty big hits.

Enforcers are a thing of the past and the sooner you and others get over that, the direction of this team will be much easier for you to understand.
Exactly you don't have to be 230 lbs to throw an effective body check

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07-05-2013, 09:35 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by 16 To Stanley View Post
Rick Nash was not brought here to hit people, he was brought here to score goals.
I'd rather see Nash hit the twine

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07-05-2013, 09:35 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeyplayer99 View Post
yea 185lbs hitting you or 230 pound person hitting you who hits harder. Our guys who actually weigh over 200lbs don't hit anything. The only ones who hit are small guys who don't do much damage.
When Boyle hits people complain he doesn't hit hard enough, when Kreider runs over Chara, everyone ignores it.

People see what they wanna see.

This season the "lacks toughness" crew are out in force.

Then the rangers bring in a bunch of tough guys who can't play, and the "lacks skill" crew chimes in.

I'm sure we would all love to build the toughest most skilled team in the league, but unless those guys are all sitting on their couches right now and are prepared to play for 1 mil a season, it's not going to happen.

I firmly believe everyone who makes these sort of threads should either make a logical plan for acquiring this supposed lack of whatever, or don't post at all.

And none of these, trade DZ for Lucic either.

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07-05-2013, 09:36 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by 16 To Stanley View Post
I'll appease you for a moment. First off and not sure if this was you, but guys don't play like Adam Graves anymore because the game is played a completely different way. Stop being stuck in the 90's, this is a new, completely different, NHL.

Second, Brian Boyle hits very hard. He can't fight for ****, but the guy nails people. Chris Kreider is one of the hardest hitters on the team and I think will be a force for years to come.

Seidenberg said this after the game where Kreider scored the OT winner.



We don't need a heavyweight, we have a bunch of nasty, tough, players.

Callahan
Dorsett
Boyle
Moore
Kreider

Our D-Core in general is very tough and throws pretty big hits.

Enforcers are a thing of the past and the sooner you and others get over that, the direction of this team will be much easier for you to understand.
Agreed 100%. The Rangers are already one of the toughest teams out there, if not around the league.

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07-05-2013, 09:37 PM
  #46
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Oh this one again, this will be fun Callahan, Dorsett, Boyle, Moore, our entire defense all soft as baby ****.

**** lets waste some cap we don't have, and another contract on a new punching bag.

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07-05-2013, 09:37 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeyplayer99 View Post
yea 185lbs hitting you or 230 pound person hitting you who hits harder. Our guys who actually weigh over 200lbs don't hit anything. The only ones who hit are small guys who don't do much damage.
There are multiple ways to be effective when hitting, one big hit that does damage which is rare, or multiple hits all night long that wear down D men in their own zone. Gotta have the speed to get to them before they move the puck, that's why guys like Callahan, Moore, and Hagelin are effective.

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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
No they don't and the 94 team had a lot more tough guys than just Graves. Boston is a much much closer model to the Rangers 94 team than the Rangers are. With all the muscle the Bruins have every player on that team has to feel supported whenever they're on the ice. That if something happens to them pay back will be on the way.

Lucic is a bigger, less versatile version of Graves--that he is good enough to play on Boston's two top lines is key though. The Rangers have a need for McIlrath to do the same. I agree that it's a waste of time signing the Boogaard's, Brashear's and the Rupp's if they can't make themselves useful in other ways. It's a tricky balance is right.
Eh, not going to fantasize about the '94 team or try and make comparisons. Pretty much every team back then was tougher than the average team now. Bolded is essentially my stand on this situation of toughness. We've signed countless guys to fill that role over the last 4-5 years and they are always gone in a season or two.


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Familiar with?? LOL..Ive been bleeding blue for close to 40 years...How about you??
Yeah it wasn't a slight against you, I was referencing people who scream for toughness and ***** about us not having any in the system when we have guys like Mashinter, Haley, McIlrath, Noreau and now Graves. So relax.

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07-05-2013, 09:43 PM
  #48
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How quickly everyone forgets mcdonagh being run right and left during the playoffs. To not acknowledge this as a major issue to be addressed would be a mistake on the rangers part. They knew they had to get clowe but he got hurt and that aspect of our game disappeared with his playing time. Now he plays for the devils and will be very effective against us, bank on it.

We can bury our heads in the sand and have ridiculous conversations on the definition of toughness or we can get a player in here to compliment dorsett. When someone runs one of ours he needs to answer for it or they will all do it. Our players weren't just hurt from shotblocking and while all teams deal with injuries we seem to be receive way more than we give.

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07-05-2013, 09:50 PM
  #49
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How quickly everyone forgets mcdonagh being run right and left during the playoffs. To not acknowledge this as a major issue to be addressed would be a mistake on the rangers part. They knew they had to get clowe but he got hurt and that aspect of our game disappeared with his playing time. Now he plays for the devils and will be very effective against us, bank on it.

We can bury our heads in the sand and have ridiculous conversations on the definition of toughness or we can get a player in here to compliment dorsett. When someone runs one of ours he needs to answer for it or they will all do it. Our players weren't just hurt from shotblocking and while all teams deal with injuries we seem to be receive way more than we give.
Nobody on any team can get Ovechkin to fight, so not sure that even matters. And having someone get beat up by Lucic doesn't help either

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07-05-2013, 09:53 PM
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How quickly everyone forgets mcdonagh being run right and left during the playoffs. To not acknowledge this as a major issue to be addressed would be a mistake on the rangers part. They knew they had to get clowe but he got hurt and that aspect of our game disappeared with his playing time. Now he plays for the devils and will be very effective against us, bank on it.

We can bury our heads in the sand and have ridiculous conversations on the definition of toughness or we can get a player in here to compliment dorsett. When someone runs one of ours he needs to answer for it or they will all do it. Our players weren't just hurt from shotblocking and while all teams deal with injuries we seem to be receive way more than we give.
Our players were told to stand down by Torts in the playoffs this year, that's why there was no retaliation.

We have enough tough guys, but they were given way to short a leash. This was honestly my biggest problem with Torts. He didn't want any stupid penalties taken and literally had our guys playing like pansies to avoid them (or any penalties in general).

IMO, it didn't have anything to do with the personnel. That was strictly a coaching issue.

And what are you saying, we should have given clowe that nutty contract. **** that guy, we can't afford him and thank god, he's an injury prone, slow, innefective forechecker at this stage. He potted 3 goals all season and 2 of them were in one game.

Guy is not worth that dough. At all.

I'm really curious if some of you guys have your heads so far up your *****, you can't see the light of day.

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