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Old
07-05-2013, 09:50 PM
  #451
flashy
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4/10

Still waiting for a bold move.

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07-05-2013, 09:51 PM
  #452
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tad Mikowsky View Post
To think other wise buys into the fantasy.



I am asking for a direct way where Kevin Lowe was being the dastardly puppet master. You still have not provided a single instance.
Remember that time Katz texted Stauffer to say Mact was not being fired. Is it impossible to think that Lowe doesn't have a say in anything?

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07-05-2013, 09:52 PM
  #453
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Originally Posted by SchultzSquared View Post
Uh... yeah because we would be better off spending $5.3M on Horton... or $5M on Clarkson...

Bold does not mean stupid... you and Replacement want MacT to do stupid...

Today was a great start but there is still lots to do... pretty sure MacT knows this better than a couple guys on a forum... we need to add a LW a C a RW and a top four D for me to be totally happy...

Hall-RNH-Eberle
?-Gagner-Yakupov
Paajarvi-?-Hemsky
Joensuu-Gordon-?
Brown Smyth
MacT said Gordon is the 3rd center.

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07-05-2013, 09:52 PM
  #454
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We should push hard for Grabovski assuming he's not asking for anything close to 5 million

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07-05-2013, 10:03 PM
  #455
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Originally Posted by JonQuixote View Post
I really wish we added Khudobin though. I don't get how we wound up paying more for Labarbera than him. Locker-room presence aside, there's no upside to Labarbera - just a best case scenario of competence.
Uhhh, he has been 'competent' throughout his career.

Worst case - he bombs and we bury a relatively small salary in the minors.

Most likely case - competent backup goaltending and will push Dubnyk, but not very hard.

Best case he breaks out and the Oil have a true top 10 #1.

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07-05-2013, 10:06 PM
  #456
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Definitely filled a hole or two today, but there's more work to be done. Let's hope there is another move or two coming.

I'd remind people that our many younger players will be better next year as well, but I honestly don't think that matters to some, so I'll keep it to myself.

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07-05-2013, 10:09 PM
  #457
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Originally Posted by Kestrel View Post
Onus is generally on the person making the outlandish claims. And "Everybody knows" isn't evidence.
Kevin Lowe has stated this himself when he was hired in the newly created position, and has been pointed out by myself and others countless times. Asking for "evidence" is being willfully obstinate, lazy, or both.

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07-05-2013, 10:10 PM
  #458
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Originally Posted by flashy View Post
Remember that time Katz texted Stauffer to say Mact was not being fired. Is it impossible to think that Lowe doesn't have a say in anything?
Or the time Rich Winter was on edmonton radio, right after Katz bought the team, saying Edmonton couldn't attract FA's because management was perceived as tough after Pronger, Penner, Comrie etc. Maybe a month later the restructuring happened and Lowe hired Tamby

Tamby was certainly in charge, he wrecked this team in his image, but Lowe helped as he is now and has the owners ear which gives him immense clout.

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07-05-2013, 10:10 PM
  #459
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shoop View Post
Best case he breaks out and the Oil have a true top 10 #1.
That's not a best case scenario. If you're going to throw fairy tales around then the best case scenario is that he wins 10 straight Vezinas and Conn Smythes. Best case scenarios to have meaning must be realistic.

The best case scenario is competent backup. That's it. Labarbera has demonstrated that through a long career. There's no upside greater than that.

Whereas the upside of some other goaltending options - realistic upside, not fairy tales - was true starting goaltender who could push Dubnyk and turn one of our 2 guys into a value asset.

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07-05-2013, 10:16 PM
  #460
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Originally Posted by JonQuixote View Post
The best case scenario is competent backup. That's it. Labarbera has demonstrated that through a long career. There's no upside greater than that.

Whereas the upside of some other goaltending options - realistic upside, not fairy tales - was true starting goaltender who could push Dubnyk and turn one of our 2 guys into a value asset.
Labarbera has been a competent backup (plus a brief stint as a starter) for a little over half his career. Why is that a best case now?

fwiw A true starting goalie wouldn't merely push Dubnyk, he would win the job easily.

With Labarbera's signing another goalie could be coming here, best case ... not very likely.

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Old
07-05-2013, 10:16 PM
  #461
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day one was a moderate success

let's see what happens tomorrow and beyond

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Old
07-05-2013, 10:19 PM
  #462
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Originally Posted by syz View Post
It feels more like MacTavish had a plan... and it failed. It involved drafting a centre and signing Clarkson.

Now he's just forced to make offers to Jones and let Lander have 4th line C duty.
Not sure where you anticipated they were going to draft a centre. Personally, I believe the drafted the prospect they wanted all along.

But you right...they did fail to land Clarkson. And its a big deal to miss on a guy like him. I don't see much else available in the same style as Clarkson in the UFA pool.

But like I said before...he's still got the Hemsky card to play and there is nothing to say he can't put together an aggressive trade involving picks/prospects + Hemsky to get someone who can provide the muscle we need in the top 6.

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07-05-2013, 10:26 PM
  #463
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Toronto and Columbus have something in common. They both made major moves to change the makeup of their teams. Columbus did it two years in a row. They reached a point where status quo became unacceptable. Piddling around with depth signings wasnt going to get them where they wanted to be. Curly Mcboldy is going to have to figure that out. Or maybe Katz has them on an internal budget? When was the last time we were even close to being a cap team? How many other teams would have mundane business as usual draft/ufa days after seven consecutive failed seasons? Mact seemed to indicate this was the year things were going to be different with the bold moves talk.

So far Ive seen none of it. Which moves could be considered bold? Dallas and Boston made bold moves. Toronto, Ottawa, Anaheim, New Jersey, LA, Minnesota and Vancouver made bold moves as well. That's a third of the league. But no, not us. We'll trade down in the draft and make our ho hum largely insignificant ufa signings just like every year.

Its beyond belief. Jim Nill, Dave Nonis and the new Finnish gm from Columbus have stolen the show. These guys are getting **** done in a big way. The thought of us even competing for the playoffs next year is already a foregone conclusion. The fans deserve better. **** Daryl Katz. Cheap ****ing nepotist ****.
Looks like nepotist is the new buzzword for hfoil.

IATL, you're a lot more intelligent than this, surely you know comparing Edmonton to Columbus and Toronto is ridiculous. We are loaded with star power, something both of those teams lack. A poster here summed it up nicely in that our teams are polar opposites; one needs role players and the others need true talent.

The only "bold" move I would be ok with MacT making is offersheeting someone like Mcd out of NY or Piet out of STL, because we need a #1 Dman and no team trades them away. We do not need to trade for another superstar forward, something that Columbus needed to do in order to complete. Columbus is a great example because they have all the types of role players we need that work their ***** off at both ends of the rink and constantly give it 100%. They had nobody to score goals and they added Gaborik + Horton, who are players much harder to acquire than role players. Now you have to understand our core of Hall, Yak, RNH, Eberle are all better than those players. Do you want MacT to trade one of them in a package for Malkin? I'm not sure what sort of bold moves you are expecting here.

MacT improved our squad quite a bit today. Gordon is an upgrade on Horcoff and his cap is way lower. Ference is one of our best defenceman instantly and bumps people down the lineup. I'm not going to comment on Joensuu and Labarbera because I don't know anything about them. We pushed hard for Clarkson and offered him more money than Toronto, what else do you expect MacT to do? Most players don't want to come out West and that is pretty obvious so you cannot blame him for offering the most money to Clarkson.

It would be nice to acquire Coburn IF THE PRICE IS RIGHT. MacT has so far done a perfect job and I'm not sure what else you could expect from him at this point, after the first day of free agency.

Some of you people are unbelievable, the guy just improved our team in a day more than Tambellini did in years and people don't think that is good enough. Free agency is so risky because every player is going to get paid big bucks, did you honestly want Nystrom for 2.5m or Clowe for almost 5m?

We still have 3 months until the season starts so can we please simmer down.

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Old
07-05-2013, 10:36 PM
  #464
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I like the moves MacT made today.

The team though still has a lot of work to do and no matter how many people say "just be patient" we realistically have about 1 week before most teams are going to be done for the summer.

If MacT doesn't have that top 6 forward, and another center and another top 4 d-man by next Friday it is very unlikely the Oilers will to start the season.

MacT made all the right small moves today. The problem is that this team is not just small moves away from being a playoff contender. We desperately NEED the right big pieces. The kids are not enough. MacT better ****ing get it done. He doesn't get the benefit of the doubt, he doesn't get an extra year.

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07-05-2013, 10:36 PM
  #465
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So the lineup at the moment is:

Hall - Nuge - Eberle
Paajarvi - (Gagner) - Yakupov
Joensuu - Gordon - Hemsky
Smyth - Lander - Brown
Hamilton/Acton

Ference - J. Schultz
Smid - Petry
N. Schultz - Larsen/Potter
Belov

Dubnyk
LaBarbera

Hemsky will still likely be moved, but as a group, this team looks even worse than the 2012/2013 Oilers.
- Gordon is cheaper, but might not be better than Horcoff as a 3rd line C
- team toughness was not addressed at all
- Ference is an upgrade on Whitney (if only because of his health), but a marginal upgrade
- Larsen 'might' be an upgrade on Fistric, but is a downgrade in terms of physicality
- C depth still sucks
- I'm not sold on LaBarbera playing 15-25 games/year - he certainly won't push Dubnyk for the starting role

Still a lot of time left to make trades, and still some unsigned FAs out there that might be a fit (Grabovski), but at the moment I'm not impressed.

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Old
07-05-2013, 10:43 PM
  #466
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shoop View Post
Labarbera has been a competent backup (plus a brief stint as a starter) for a little over half his career. Why is that a best case now?
You said it yourslf - he's shown it his whole career. I would think a 33yo backup coming from a goalie friendly system (and who has had ample opportunity to prove himself as an Nhl starter in the past) is an unrealistic bet to get noticeably better, but has real potential to slip. Because that is going to happen at some point, right?

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Old
07-05-2013, 10:46 PM
  #467
duul
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Originally Posted by Baggers View Post
So the lineup at the moment is:

Hall - Nuge - Eberle
Paajarvi - (Gagner) - Yakupov
Joensuu - Gordon - Hemsky
Smyth - Lander - Brown
Hamilton/Acton

Ference - J. Schultz
Smid - Petry
N. Schultz - Larsen/Potter
Belov

Dubnyk
LaBarbera

Hemsky will still likely be moved, but as a group, this team looks even worse than the 2012/2013 Oilers.
- Gordon is cheaper, but might not be better than Horcoff as a 3rd line C
- team toughness was not addressed at all
- Ference is an upgrade on Whitney (if only because of his health), but a marginal upgrade
- Larsen 'might' be an upgrade on Fistric, but is a downgrade in terms of physicality
- C depth still sucks
- I'm not sold on LaBarbera playing 15-25 games/year - he certainly won't push Dubnyk for the starting role

Still a lot of time left to make trades, and still some unsigned FAs out there that might be a fit (Grabovski), but at the moment I'm not impressed.
Gordon is better at every facet of the game than Horcoff sans skating. He put up more points, less penalties, same hits, way better faceoff % and he's a better PKer.

Joensuu is a bit of a wildcard but he hits like a train and he is massive, he is definitely an upgrade on toughness because I've seen him demolish people, he is not afraid to take the body.

Ference is our #3 defenceman he just bumped N.Schultz, J.Schultz, Fistric, Potter, Larsen, Belov, Klefbom down the lineup.

There are still lots of depth C's available if we can't land Grabovski which I am hoping we do.

Our team is better than last season already, stop acting like we just somehow got worse trading in Horcoff for a better and cheaper #3 and adding some quality defence. Take into account progressions of our young players and you'll see you are making yourself look silly stating this team is worse.

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07-05-2013, 10:48 PM
  #468
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Originally Posted by Everest View Post
Not sure where you anticipated they were going to draft a centre. Personally, I believe the drafted the prospect they wanted all along.

But you right...they did fail to land Clarkson. And its a big deal to miss on a guy like him. I don't see much else available in the same style as Clarkson in the UFA pool.

But like I said before...he's still got the Hemsky card to play and there is nothing to say he can't put together an aggressive trade involving picks/prospects + Hemsky to get someone who can provide the muscle we need in the top 6.
He said his plan at the draft was a centre. He even said MacKinnon, Lindholm, and Monahan by name. He didn't get any of them, and now the team is going to end up with Lander or an equivalent.

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Old
07-05-2013, 10:48 PM
  #469
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solid moves today. Hoping for a a couple big trades to get a top 6 winger with size and another top 4 D, better/younger than Ference.

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07-05-2013, 10:49 PM
  #470
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Columbus of all teams is turning things around.

Are you saying it cant be done?
Have they made the playoffs in the last 4 years? No? Hmm...

Also I'm pretty sure they finished behind us the season before last. Bobrovsky plays out of his mind and suddenly they're "turning things around".

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07-05-2013, 10:55 PM
  #471
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So, Mac-Bold spent about 8-ish million today.

Didn't get Clarkson...but...we did 'OK'.

Still plenty of cap room and we still have the Hemsky card to play at some point.

This all seems to feel more more like a "plan" is transpiring than it ever did under Tambellini.
Barely.

Really as it stands I don't know we're a better lineup than we had in January.

Like Lowe occasionally used to do MacT buys into stocking shelves but with quantity as much as quality. We don't necessarily need a lot of additions we need effective ones. The thinking that help is on the way through a plurality doesn't get
it done. Theres only so many slots in the lineup and a lot of spots obviously filled.

My own take is I'd rather make a splash with two ringer vets then half a dozen add-ons that don't make an appreciable difference. Ference is useful. Gordon, possibly, I don't know how well he'll play now outside of Phoenix.

Trouble is if we do now find some quality vets we end up having to make some room and deal some of the addon help we just acquired.

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07-05-2013, 10:57 PM
  #472
shoop
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solid moves today. Hoping for a a couple big trades to get a top 6 winger with size and another top 4 D, better/younger than Ference.
There has to be something else coming. Here's the three things I'd like to see done before worrying about another D.

Signing or trading Gagner. Get a 2C if it's a trade.

Doing something with Hemsky.

Something else in net other than Labarbapapa.

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07-05-2013, 11:00 PM
  #473
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I like the moves MacT made today.

The team though still has a lot of work to do and no matter how many people say "just be patient" we realistically have about 1 week before most teams are going to be done for the summer.

If MacT doesn't have that top 6 forward, and another center and another top 4 d-man by next Friday it is very unlikely the Oilers will to start the season.

MacT made all the right small moves today. The problem is that this team is not just small moves away from being a playoff contender. We desperately NEED the right big pieces. The kids are not enough. MacT better ****ing get it done. He doesn't get the benefit of the doubt, he doesn't get an extra year.
lol, I just said almost exactly this before reading your post.

This team HAS to compete this year and imo has to be a playoff club. To have another year of abject failure is going to do more to demoralize the club, our young core, and have yet another platoon of players, a new generation, "conditioned to losing".

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07-05-2013, 11:04 PM
  #474
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Originally Posted by Kestrel View Post
Onus is generally on the person making the outlandish claims. And "Everybody knows" isn't evidence.
No the onus is on people who either do not know what a President of Hockey Ops does or refuses to believe that a person with that title actually controls the hockey side of the business. It's pretty self-explanatory. Some execs hold both PHO and GM titles but the President approves all important decisions. How much more clarity do you need? DO you want me to walk down to Kingsway and ask Lowe if he is PHO? I think he will say yes.

Kevin Lowe was Tambellini's boss and he's Mactavish's boss and it very much in control of the organization. To say otherwise completely and utterly ignores how hockey team are managed and practical reality.

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07-05-2013, 11:15 PM
  #475
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I like the moves MacT made today.

The team though still has a lot of work to do and no matter how many people say "just be patient" we realistically have about 1 week before most teams are going to be done for the summer.

If MacT doesn't have that top 6 forward, and another center and another top 4 d-man by next Friday it is very unlikely the Oilers will to start the season.

MacT made all the right small moves today. The problem is that this team is not just small moves away from being a playoff contender. We desperately NEED the right big pieces. The kids are not enough. MacT better ****ing get it done. He doesn't get the benefit of the doubt, he doesn't get an extra year.
Yup
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
lol, I just said almost exactly this before reading your post.

This team HAS to compete this year and imo has to be a playoff club. To have another year of abject failure is going to do more to demoralize the club, our young core, and have yet another platoon of players, a new generation, "conditioned to losing".
Yup

If they dont get more help, this team is putting all their chips on banking that the kids all make that step forward together. Which would be funny if it happened, because MacT would look like a genius savior.

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