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Softest team in the NHL

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Old
07-05-2013, 09:54 PM
  #51
Crazed Beaver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slipknottin View Post
When Boyle hits people complain he doesn't hit hard enough, when Kreider runs over Chara, everyone ignores it.

People see what they wanna see.

This season the "lacks toughness" crew are out in force.

Then the rangers bring in a bunch of tough guys who can't play, and the "lacks skill" crew chimes in.

I'm sure we would all love to build the toughest most skilled team in the league, but unless those guys are all sitting on their couches right now and are prepared to play for 1 mil a season, it's not going to happen.

I firmly believe everyone who makes these sort of threads should either make a logical plan for acquiring this supposed lack of whatever, or don't post at all.

And none of these, trade DZ for Lucic either.
So someone who's opinion differs from yours shouldn't post? Do you have a list of subjects and opinions which meet your approval? I firmly believe your full of ****.

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07-05-2013, 09:54 PM
  #52
NYR Viper
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I don't think the team is soft. I think that's the major disconnect happening here. This team has tough guys who hit and battle hard. No one can deny that for most of these guys.

What I think many of us would like to see, is a slight upgrade at key positions, to have some more guys who can, and are willing to, drop the gloves to turn the momentum or stand up for their teammates.

These guys shouldn't be Mike Rupp or Arron Asham's. Derek Dorsett is a perfect example. Eric Nystrom, although he was overpaid. Cody McLeod. Brandon Prust. Brandon Dubinsky. Curtis Glencross. Guys who will drop the gloves with most middle weights. Guys who are multi dimensional and contribute in other ways as well as dropping the gloves.

Heavyweights are close to a thing of the past. The guys need to be able to play the game and they are getting harder and harder to find.

Hopefully that clears up some of the misconceptions in this thread.

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07-05-2013, 09:55 PM
  #53
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It's not about staged fighting. It's not about PIMs. It's not about hit #s. It's not about Matt Cooke'ing opposing players heads.

It's about standing up for yourself when you, a teammate, or especially your franchise goaltender is pushed. It's about being able to win a board battle. Being able to win the space in front of your net, and the opposition's net. It's not just about hitting - it's about hitting in an intimidating way so that maybe a player on the other team dumps in when they normally would have carried the puck. Coughs up the puck up the boards to the point because they don't want to take a big hit that causes more damage than a waterbug-type "hitter" bouncing off of them. It's about winning the physical battle of attrition in the playoffs; dishing out punishment and wearing teams down instead of always taking it.

The Rangers iced a roster that did these things and they had their most successful season in 15 years. No, I do not think that was a coincidence.

And yes, I 100% AGREE that the best deterrent is a good PP. But it shouldn't be the only focus, IMO.

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07-05-2013, 09:55 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thugice View Post
How quickly everyone forgets mcdonagh being run right and left during the playoffs. To not acknowledge this as a major issue to be addressed would be a mistake on the rangers part. They knew they had to get clowe but he got hurt and that aspect of our game disappeared with his playing time. Now he plays for the devils and will be very effective against us, bank on it.

We can bury our heads in the sand and have ridiculous conversations on the definition of toughness or we can get a player in here to compliment dorsett. When someone runs one of ours he needs to answer for it or they will all do it. Our players weren't just hurt from shotblocking and while all teams deal with injuries we seem to be receive way more than we give.
clowe was entirely useless in his Rangers stint besides those goals in those anomalous games vs. the Sabres and Pens. Zuccarello was a more intimidating physical presence on the forecheck. Clowe too slow to hit and too fragile to take hits.

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07-05-2013, 09:56 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Thugice View Post
So someone who's opinion differs from yours shouldn't post? Do you have a list of subjects and opinions which meet your approval? I firmly believe your full of ****.
No you can have an opinion, but constantly whining about something is completely pointless if you are unable to even think of any possible solutions.

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07-05-2013, 09:58 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slipknottin View Post
No you can have an opinion, but constantly whining about something is completely pointless if you are unable to even think of any possible solutions.
Cody McLeod. Option #1.

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07-05-2013, 09:59 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
I don't think the team is soft. I think that's the major disconnect happening here. This team has tough guys who hit and battle hard. No one can deny that for most of these guys.

What I think many of us would like to see, is a slight upgrade at key positions, to have some more guys who can, and are willing to, drop the gloves to turn the momentum or stand up for their teammates.

These guys shouldn't be Mike Rupp or Arron Asham's. Derek Dorsett is a perfect example. Eric Nystrom, although he was overpaid. Cody McLeod. Brandon Prust. Brandon Dubinsky. Curtis Glencross. Guys who will drop the gloves with most middle weights. Guys who are multi dimensional and contribute in other ways as well as dropping the gloves.

Heavyweights are close to a thing of the past. The guys need to be able to play the game and they are getting harder and harder to find.

Hopefully that clears up some of the misconceptions in this thread.
I don't think most of us disagree with this, but there are clearly people in this thread who are thinking of toughness in completely different terms than what you just described.

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07-05-2013, 10:00 PM
  #58
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LOL at this thread.

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07-05-2013, 10:03 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
Cody McLeod. Option #1.
And get him how?

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07-05-2013, 10:04 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
Cody McLeod. Option #1.
I've seen you mention it many times, but why the interest in McCleod? I haven't paid attention to him much when I watch Avs games. He seems to have finally gotten ice time this season over 13 mins a game for first time in his career. And he did this on the 2nd worst team in the NHL. What does he bring that makes him a #1 target? He's been a 4th line player on one of the worst teams in the league the past few seasons.

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07-05-2013, 10:04 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
Cody McLeod. Option #1.
We'd get more offense keeping Asham. Guy is turning 30 and has scored more than 10 goals once.

This is exactly the kind of goon we need to keep away from.

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07-05-2013, 10:05 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
I'm probably the minority in this one, but I for one am glad they signed actual hockey players to play in the bottom 6 than hacks who can barely hold their sticks.
No. You're not alone.

"Soft".

Rangers didn't lose to the Devils and Bruins because they were "soft". They lost for many reasons, including tactics and stubborn coaching, but the largest reasons were a lack of quality depth in the bottom six and an inability to score more goals.

Moore will help gain puck possession, because he is very good on faceoffs. He also plays a physical game, so the original complaint isn't valid with this player. Pouliot brings speed and skill to the bottom six, an area of deaperate need.

Aaron Johnson will barely play. Our defense is quite physical. OP is far off the mark there.

The moves today were solid. Quality depth. No garbage hockey players signed for a change.

Alain Vigneault's approach to the game is completely different than Tortorella's. The defense will most likely be given more of a green light to attack. Puck possession will most likely increase. Forecheck will most likely be more aggressive.

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07-05-2013, 10:06 PM
  #63
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I just want this team to stand up for each other. If one of out guys is pushed, push back. That's why I loved Dubinsky and Prust so much.

As for the fighting, we don't need more Mike Rupps getting into a fight with the Eric Boultons and Shawn Thorntons of the world off a faceoff every game. Seriously, all Rupper did for us was score the 2 WC goals and beat the **** out of Kopecky. Yeah he was a leader but that wasn't enough.

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07-05-2013, 10:06 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
I've seen you mention it many times, but why the interest in McCleod? I haven't paid attention to him much when I watch Avs games. He seems to have finally gotten ice time this season over 13 mins a game for first time in his career. And he did this on the 2nd worst team in the NHL. What does he bring that makes him a #1 target? He's been a 4th line player on one of the worst teams in the league the past few seasons.
He provides offense, great in the locker room, Pk's as well. Good grinder who gets in on the forecheck as well.

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07-05-2013, 10:07 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 16 To Stanley View Post
We'd get more offense keeping Asham. Guy is turning 30 and has scored more than 10 goals once.

This is exactly the kind of goon we need to keep away from.
Asham doesn't PK nor can he do much on the forecheck with his lack of speed.

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07-05-2013, 10:08 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by slipknottin View Post
And get him how?
Avs fans agreed to Powe + Bourque for McLeod + 6th 14

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07-05-2013, 10:10 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
He provides offense, great in the locker room, Pk's as well. Good grinder who gets in on the forecheck as well.
Yeah that sounds a lot like how Asham was advertised coming over from Pitts (minus the PK). I'm not sold on this guy being a key piece or even playing him over Pyatt, who is a much better hockey player as evident by career GP, point totals, goals, etc. Only twice in his career, McCleod has averaged 1 SH TOI/PG and did those for 2 bottom feeding Avs teams.

Seems like a player that Sather once dumpster dived for in FA.

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07-05-2013, 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
Asham doesn't PK nor can he do much on the forecheck with his lack of speed.
Asham was very good on the forecheck this year, imo.

And where is he going to PK.

We have Cally, Stepan, Hagelin, Moore, Pouliot and Boyle. We don't need a goon to penalty kill for us.

Again, maybe i'm in the minority, but i'd much rather have edgy, skill guys fill out our bottom six, then a guy who's going to give me 10-15 points over the course of the year and otherwise be useless.

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07-05-2013, 10:16 PM
  #69
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A healthy Callahan will help. It's hard to win board battles with such a devastating injury. Of course, he tries anyway.

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07-05-2013, 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by slipknottin View Post
No you can have an opinion, but constantly whining about something is completely pointless if you are unable to even think of any possible solutions.
Let me get this straight, the gm of our team doesn't get held accountable for not watching prospects yet I can't rely on our front office to bring in a player with some sand. Not looking to bring in a herd of goons just one more player to handle the rougher stuff. I would love kassian from vc or someone similar.

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07-05-2013, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by 16 To Stanley View Post
Asham was very good on the forecheck this year, imo.

And where is he going to PK.

We have Cally, Stepan, Hagelin, Moore, Pouliot and Boyle. We don't need a goon to penalty kill for us.

Again, maybe i'm in the minority, but i'd much rather have edgy, skill guys fill out our bottom six, then a guy who's going to give me 10-15 points over the course of the year and otherwise be useless.
Take responsibility away from the big minute guys like Stepan to keep their minutes down.

I would rather have McLeod over Pyatt, Powe or Asham.

I guess we agree to disagree

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07-05-2013, 10:18 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Thugice View Post
Let me get this straight, the gm of our team doesn't get held accountable for not watching prospects yet I can't rely on our front office to bring in a player with some sand. Not looking to bring in a herd of goons just one more player to handle the rougher stuff. I would love kassian from vc or someone similar.
Look how Vancouver was so successful with Kassian though.

He looked like a scrub without Sedin on his line.

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07-05-2013, 10:19 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Thugice View Post
Let me get this straight, the gm of our team doesn't get held accountable for not watching prospects yet I can't rely on our front office to bring in a player with some sand. Not looking to bring in a herd of goons just one more player to handle the rougher stuff. I would love kassian from vc or someone similar.
And who do you propose we trade for Kassian?

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07-05-2013, 10:19 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Thugice View Post
Let me get this straight, the gm of our team doesn't get held accountable for not watching prospects yet I can't rely on our front office to bring in a player with some sand. Not looking to bring in a herd of goons just one more player to handle the rougher stuff. I would love kassian from vc or someone similar.
I'm fine with a post like that, bring in so and so, at least those players can be debated and such.

But starting threads like "this entire team is poopy" is just nonsense

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07-05-2013, 10:19 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Thugice View Post
Let me get this straight, the gm of our team doesn't get held accountable for not watching prospects yet I can't rely on our front office to bring in a player with some sand. Not looking to bring in a herd of goons just one more player to handle the rougher stuff. I would love kassian from vc or someone similar.
Kassian would cost Kreider. Kassian and guys similar to him aren't easy to come by. People want toughness but they want guys who can score too. It's not that simple. Guys that do both are some of the most valuable and expensive in the league. Ask Clarkson's agent. I would like to see Sather bring in another big tough player but don't be surprised if he's not all that great a hockey player.

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