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What Jokerit joing the KHL means for Sweden.

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07-03-2013, 12:08 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by QnebO View Post
They didin't buy Jokerit neither, just the Arena. They have option for buying part of Jokerit, but becoming biggest owner. And will sponsor some pengar.
Yes, but Harkimo owns Jokerit.
And since a team can't be privately owned to more than 49% in Sweden, the members will always deiced what happens to the team.
And i guess Jokerit fans would rather play HIFK than some random russian team, but it's not for them to decide, but in Sweden it is, and they will make sure it never happens.

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07-03-2013, 12:19 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by AE View Post
Yes, but Harkimo owns Jokerit.
And since a team can't be privately owned to more than 49% in Sweden, the members will always deiced what happens to the team.
And i guess Jokerit fans would rather play HIFK than some random russian team, but it's not for them to decide, but in Sweden it is, and they will make sure it never happens.
Ok, I get it. Explain me why owners of AIK agreed with joining KHL?

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07-03-2013, 12:22 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Darth Yoda View Post
Yeah. But lets put it like this: I'm a Penguins fan as well as a Frölunda fan. Or lets go to Wilkes Barre/Scranton, Pennsylvania: They're both baby pens and Pittsburgh Penguins fans.
Lets just wait to the situation when Frölunda of the KHL boasts say eight players on the Euro Hockey Tour team, who are you to tell aforemost really young fans to NOT root for the premiere hockey team in the country?
Those who are against KHL expension in Europe, are against Europes ability to keep as good players here as possible. And while they're allready here(In the KHL), then why dont have at least those swedes in our own country?
Make no mistake, the economic power in european hockey is in Russia, now expanding to western europe.
We don't work like that here. We cheer for our local teams and/or teams from other leagues.


Last edited by joe89: 07-03-2013 at 01:53 PM. Reason: irrelevant
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07-04-2013, 07:39 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Jonimaus View Post
We don't work like that here. We cheer for our local teams and/or teams from other leagues.
But exactly what is a local team? It depends on how big their magnet is. If i live in Wilkes-Barre i will cheer for both that AHL-team and the Pittsburgh Penguins. Just like i cheer for the top amateur team here in Gothenburg, the Frölunda Indians, i will cheer for whatever swedish team that joins the KHL. As for now, i go with Jokerit becouse i can relate the most with them in the KHL.

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07-05-2013, 02:37 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Darth Yoda View Post
But exactly what is a local team? It depends on how big their magnet is. If i live in Wilkes-Barre i will cheer for both that AHL-team and the Pittsburgh Penguins. Just like i cheer for the top amateur team here in Gothenburg, the Frölunda Indians, i will cheer for whatever swedish team that joins the KHL. As for now, i go with Jokerit becouse i can relate the most with them in the KHL.
Why would a swede care about the KHL? People don't care about SM-Liiga, DEL, NLA etc either.
You support your local team (the team you grew up with) and if you want the best hockey available you watch the NHL.
As for cheering for the top team - you seem to be what most fans call a "medgångssupporter". Not regarded as a good thing.


Last edited by SurMartin: 07-05-2013 at 02:45 AM.
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07-05-2013, 08:06 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Yoda View Post
But exactly what is a local team? It depends on how big their magnet is. If i live in Wilkes-Barre i will cheer for both that AHL-team and the Pittsburgh Penguins. Just like i cheer for the top amateur team here in Gothenburg, the Frölunda Indians, i will cheer for whatever swedish team that joins the KHL. As for now, i go with Jokerit becouse i can relate the most with them in the KHL.
You'd be hard pressed to find a single Swedish hockey fan who would agree with your line of reasoning.

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07-05-2013, 11:54 AM
  #32
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So now SHL is an amateur league? Explains every single post about Swedish hockey you've written.

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07-05-2013, 12:58 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
Ok, I get it. Explain me why owners of AIK agreed with joining KHL?
The owners, the members, did not agree to join the KHL.

I think KHL in Sweden only would work if 3-4 teams were invited at the same time and those team would have to be Djurgårdens IF, Aik, Frölunda and/or Malmö/Brynäs.

Besides that the clubs would need a guarantee from the Russians that the clubs will own the tv-rights for their own games, as well as being guaranteed a Central/Northern KHL Division with at least 40 games in the same time zone. A Gazprom promotion of perhaps 5 million € annually would be recommended too.

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07-05-2013, 01:55 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by pulverapa View Post
The owners, the members, did not agree to join the KHL.

I think KHL in Sweden only would work if 3-4 teams were invited at the same time and those team would have to be Djurgårdens IF, Aik, Frölunda and/or Malmö/Brynäs.

Besides that the clubs would need a guarantee from the Russians that the clubs will own the tv-rights for their own games, as well as being guaranteed a Central/Northern KHL Division with at least 40 games in the same time zone. A Gazprom promotion of perhaps 5 million € annually would be recommended too.
It seems to be that vorky meant AIK's joining of 2009, when only Swedish federation stopped it. If it happened then (at least with allvenskan club), it means that generally Swedish clubs can be interested in the KHL and Malmö and Djurgårdens are the candidates. Other cities (except Gothenburg) don't even have arenas matching KHL criteria. Oh, and there are no spots for 4 teams from 1 country, the maximum is 2 teams. Viasat already has tv rights in Finland, situation in Sweden shouldn't be different.

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07-05-2013, 02:12 PM
  #35
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pulverapa

as Sucrologist wrote, AIK shakeholders agreed to join KHL. Yes, it was blocked by federation later, the same with joining Lev Hradec Kralove (Czech). Situation with AIK was similar to Jokerit, the club agreed to join... but AIK failed, Jokerit can fail as well but I dont believe it (vicepresident of KHL bought Hartwall and is going to buy Jokerit as well).

Swedish clubs does not have position (power) to dictate conditions. They had such conditions back in 2008 or 2009 (when threatened with leaving SHL), but not now. KHL does not need swe club anymore, there are not spots, nor interest. Yes, swe club would be great, but it is not so important for KHL.

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07-05-2013, 11:05 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by svartgul View Post
So now SHL is an amateur league? Explains every single post about Swedish hockey you've written.
It's not exactly rocket science, it's called rethoric. You either did not grasp that, or you did simply not have anything better to argue with so you tried to disarm my comment by thinking that noone else except you and me understood what i meant. Either way, not a very smooth tactic.
In this case i wanted to diss the SHL which is a real boring occurance and a Tier-3 league, a thing that for me can also be likened to the boring sport of soccer.

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Originally Posted by SurMartin View Post
Why would a swede care about the KHL? People don't care about SM-Liiga, DEL, NLA etc either.
You support your local team (the team you grew up with) and if you want the best hockey available you watch the NHL.
But the question sooner or later will become, with one or more swedish teams in the league, how much better the KHL can be and become without attracting hordes of fans in sweden. At some point the lure of a faster, more star studded league will probably start to attract their fair share of followers. Maybe not you, i'm just telling you what i think would be the case.
People that "only root for the hometime team" often do it just to be able to drink beer and shout about fans of the opposing teams supposedly diffuse sexual orientation. I mean, what can it otherwise be with such a poor product on the ice? That at least in my mind, is not what a true appreciation of sport is.

Quote:
As for cheering for the top team - you seem to be what most fans call a "medgångssupporter". Not regarded as a good thing.
If it's just one swedish team in the KHL it's pretty hard to not root for the best team, and the worst. But sure, three teams might be the ultimate situation. One in each of our three biggest cities. We do our thing while some Speedway-people out in the country may remain in their goldfish bowls all they want, i will not shove them out of there. I will only urge them to open their mind, becouse there actually is a whole other world outside of it. A big, rich and more diverse world of hockey and people. With great history and pride just as we have and it would be real jolly to get to compete against not only the best teams in sweden, but also classic teams like CSKA Moskow, Jokerit and Slovan Bratislava.


Last edited by Darth Yoda: 07-06-2013 at 12:28 AM. Reason: adhd and sleep deprivation
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07-06-2013, 07:45 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Darth Yoda View Post
People that "only root for the hometime team" often do it just to be able to drink beer and shout about fans of the opposing teams supposedly diffuse sexual orientation. I mean, what can it otherwise be with such a poor product on the ice? That at least in my mind, is not what a true appreciation of sport is.


There's your problem. You somehow have missed how the sport culture work in Europe and specifically in Sweden compared to North America. Which blows my mind a bit since you are Swedish. Your AHL/NHL comparison does not translate to us, at all. except for a very few.

We are team orientated in our support of a sport. The big difference between us and North America for example is that they first and foremost are supporters of the sport, we are supporters of a team - that plays a sport. There you have one reason why the stands dont fill up during WC:s for example. No home team, not buying tickets - maybe watch TV, maybe.


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07-06-2013, 08:19 AM
  #38
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I am going to save this thread. Will be fun to re-read it when/if SWE club joins KHL.

One thing is interesting. Czechs/Slovak/Croats/Latvians/Finns try to find positive things about KHL team from their country, only Swedes dont (kudos to Darth Yoda).

This thread is called "What Jokerit joing the KHL means for Sweden" and some of you talk the same crap (not care at all) all the time. Try to be positive instead.

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07-06-2013, 08:59 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
pulverapa

as Sucrologist wrote, AIK shakeholders agreed to join KHL. Yes, it was blocked by federation later, the same with joining Lev Hradec Kralove (Czech). Situation with AIK was similar to Jokerit, the club agreed to join... but AIK failed, Jokerit can fail as well but I dont believe it (vicepresident of KHL bought Hartwall and is going to buy Jokerit as well).

Swedish clubs does not have position (power) to dictate conditions. They had such conditions back in 2008 or 2009 (when threatened with leaving SHL), but not now. KHL does not need swe club anymore, there are not spots, nor interest. Yes, swe club would be great, but it is not so important for KHL.
Since you are not from Sweden I can understand that you are misinformed. Actually, what happened was aik showed interest in joining but invited members to a vote where it was decided that aik would not join the KHL, by only one vote´s margin.

You can read about the vote in the KHL article:

Quote:
For AIK Hockey Club the final decision to enter the KHL will be pending a members voting as well as acceptance of the Swedish Ice Hockey Association
The KHL article was written months before the vote, and the Swedish Ice Hockey Federation eventually declined any chance for aik to join the KHL. But that was after their own members voting.

I would also want to respond to you regarding your comment on Swedes not being interested in KHL. You are absolutely right. I don't think people here wants to be part of a league controlled by Russians. That is the main reason. I, on the other hand, am pretty interested. With the right conditions in place, I would want to see my team (Djurgården) joining the KHL, since our economic situation is getting worse every day, playing in the 2nd league...


Last edited by pulverapa: 07-06-2013 at 09:24 AM.
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07-06-2013, 09:05 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Sucrologist View Post
It seems to be that vorky meant AIK's joining of 2009, when only Swedish federation stopped it. If it happened then (at least with allvenskan club), it means that generally Swedish clubs can be interested in the KHL and Malmö and Djurgårdens are the candidates. Other cities (except Gothenburg) don't even have arenas matching KHL criteria. Oh, and there are no spots for 4 teams from 1 country, the maximum is 2 teams. Viasat already has tv rights in Finland, situation in Sweden shouldn't be different.
If you mean the Ericsson Globe Arena in Stockholm, there is no chance that Djurgården or aik from Stockholm would abandon their current arena, Hovet, and move to Ericsson Globe. If the Stockholm teams eventually decides to join the KHL, they will play in the older arena. It's actually pretty similiar to Novokuznetsk´s arena. And how come Nizhnekamsk club, Neftekhimik, is allowed to play in the KHL with their arena?

There have been talks about modernizing the old Hovet but I doubt it will happen, cause Stockholm City hates sports.

But I can understand that there's only room for two teams from each country in KHL (except from Russia). If it ever will happen it better be Stockholm clubs Djurgården and aik, that heated rivalry is unpresidented in the hockey world, feeding off the rivalry they have in football.


Last edited by pulverapa: 07-06-2013 at 09:35 AM.
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07-06-2013, 09:08 AM
  #41
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thx, one vote decided? Not bad.

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07-06-2013, 09:30 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
pulverapa
thx, one vote decided? Not bad.
I have been told that the final vote was placed by the trusted meeting chairman, who was not part of the board.

But, with Jokerit joining KHL, I don't think the Swedish Ice Hockey Federation would stop a Swedish team joining the KHL. Different times.

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07-06-2013, 09:36 AM
  #43
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By the way, is it known how much Viasat payed Jokerit for the tv-rights/how much Jokerit is being payed from the KHL from tv-money?

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07-06-2013, 09:43 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by pulverapa View Post
I have been told that the final vote was placed by the trusted meeting chairman, who was not part of the board.

But, with Jokerit joining KHL, I don't think the Swedish Ice Hockey Federation would stop a Swedish team joining the KHL. Different times.
We will see what happens in future, you are right "different times" but I read interview of president of Swedish hockey federation last week, where he said that federation will not allow clubs to join KHL. Yes, it can be PR now.

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By the way, is it known how much Viasat payed Jokerit for the tv-rights/how much Jokerit is being payed from the KHL from tv-money?
Nothing. KHL negotiate tv contracts and all money from them are KHL´s revenue. There is a discussion among league and clubs to share these revenue. We will see, I think league will share this tv-deals with clubs after Sochi.

How much SHL clubs are being payed from tv-deals? When does the deal expire?

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07-06-2013, 10:42 AM
  #45
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I could see a team with no or little history in SEL going KHL with new and unexpected money. I guess it would involve economic intricates bordering on the legal side or beyond (well standard KHL that is). What 8s in it? Well it happens that the dirt rich buys teams, a bit of a novelty in Swedish hockey but it can happen.

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07-06-2013, 11:08 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
I am going to save this thread. Will be fun to re-read it when/if SWE club joins KHL.

One thing is interesting. Czechs/Slovak/Croats/Latvians/Finns try to find positive things about KHL team from their country, only Swedes dont (kudos to Darth Yoda).

This thread is called "What Jokerit joing the KHL means for Sweden" and some of you talk the same crap (not care at all) all the time. Try to be positive instead.
Seriously. If you had any sense of courtesy you might have less "negatism" thrown at you.

No one has claimed that a you never will see a Swedish team in the KHL. If it happen though, that team would have pretty much everything working against it. Swedes will not run off and by tv-subscription to watch the KHL just because a Swedish team (none the less a team then don't support!) joins the KHL. A Swede (excepts for Darth Yoda) will not embrace a team (again, a team they did not support before) just because they have joined the KHL. The very few that might think it's "cool" is so few so the team will be 100% dependent on the current fan base. If they don't support it, well it would be very difficult for that team to move without support (and I'm not only speaking about voting members). And there is almost no national pride in Sweden so the team will not be looked at like "the swedish hope in the KHL". Have you heard of "Jante". No? I thought so. Another thing that sets that team up for a failure.

And I don't care how it is in Prag, I don't care about the situation in Bratislava. This is not the Czech Republic and this is not Slovakia.


Last edited by Samkow: 07-06-2013 at 12:04 PM. Reason: Don't flame.
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07-06-2013, 11:55 AM
  #47
svartgul
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@Darth Yoda, calling SHL an amateur league isn't semantics, tactics, rethorics or whatever you wanna call it. It's a statement, a crass and ignorant one that exemplifies your feelings toward swedish hockey. I find your strawman retortion completely hilarious and that you call SHL a tier-3 league is beyong worth commenting.


Last edited by ThirdManIn: 07-06-2013 at 12:16 PM. Reason: personal
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07-06-2013, 12:05 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by pulverapa View Post
By the way, is it known how much Viasat payed Jokerit for the tv-rights/how much Jokerit is being payed from the KHL from tv-money?
Nothing. Viasat Finland had KHL rights before Hartwall Areena was sold. Jokerit won't get any tv money that isn't via KHL. No tv network is going to pay them for exclusive coverage(despite Harkimo's initial comments), there simply isn't money to be made with such deals in Finland for any party (covered in one Finnish paper this week).

Also clarification, Timtshenko (nor Rotenbergs) cannot acquire full or majority ownership of Jokerit (Harkimo said he'd always have majority, currently holds full ownership) because due to their ownership in SKA, there would be a conflict of interest as Timtshenko said himself.


Last edited by Jussi: 07-06-2013 at 12:24 PM.
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07-06-2013, 12:16 PM
  #49
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How many teams break even in the KHL without support?

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07-06-2013, 12:23 PM
  #50
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How many teams break even in the KHL without support?
Very few. Riga made a profit of 50K euros a year ago but that maybe largely due to player transactions. Chances of Jokerit making profit aren't very high either(because they don't make profit in Finland either).

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