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Old
07-06-2013, 09:59 AM
  #751
PFL615
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
S615, I would've been happy with Stalberg and Ribeiro. That would've addressed the top 6 needs. A proven center in Ribeiro who is good on the PP and a guy who has the potential for top 6 minutes while adding speed and size to the lineup.

And while I agree we added grit back to the lineup, I think it could hamstring us down the line salary wise because we have a bunch of guys again that do the same thing but are now paying them a lot more money to do it. It's nice to have some punch on the 4th line but when I see Lapierre signing for $1.1/year we massively overpaid for guys like Nystrom and Hendricks. Probably could've had both for $2.5/year. Add that to the albatross of a deal we signed Gaustad to and I think we could have issues, not saying we will but could have issues.

Now if Poile and Trotz are going for a team that scores 2 a game and only gives up 1 then I agree with what they've done but the margin for error is way too large IMO.

People ask why free agents don't want to come here. Well, look at the way the team is designed. Defense first and forwards who like to score or play offense are not going to want to come to a team that is all about defense first. It has to be fun for them in addition to doing the hard work and I think the thought of always having to be defensively first is a turn off for certain guys. It has nothing to do with the town or if we're a hockey city or not. Players that have played here enjoyed living here and visiting players know it's a tough loud place to play so that's not an issue either. I think it has everything to do with the system we play.

Now what happens if we ***** the bed coming out of the gate. One, the coach is gone and Poile is on the hot seat as well and now we have a roster full of guys that the outgoing coach loves but may not fit in to the future plans of the new coach and there is no way to unload these guys because they are overpaid. We have seriously put all the eggs in one basket and put all the faith in Trotz to make this work. I hope it does or this could turn in to a major disaster.
Well said Glenn thank you.
I an sure we signed the guys you mentioned for a little more than some would like because i seriously doubt Nash was the only teams wanting them. They fit what Poile is wanting to do and he paid for them. What would be said if he shut down over paying a little to much and kept things status quo?

I like Ribeiro to but i do not think we could have changed his mind about wanting to plau for his old coach that he really likes. Funny he left a big hockey market all offense team for a team that is very similar to the Predators.
I think decisions go deeper than offense and defense.

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07-06-2013, 10:10 AM
  #752
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My problem with the Hendricks and Nystrom signings isn't how much they got, it's the length of the contracts. You can deal with those contracts if it's only for a year or two but four years? That's insane for players like that. If you want to go 2/5 for Nystrom and 2/4 for Hendricks, fine. Don't sign them for almost half a decade though. If some other team wants to give them more, let them.

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07-06-2013, 10:13 AM
  #753
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I actually have bought in to what Poile did.

Last season we couldn't keep position of the puck because our "dump and chase" was dump and backcheck, we didn't have the speed to regain the puck. Our forcheck was also effected by the lack of speed, we had gotten away from our normal aggressive forecheck and sat back more. We also had defensemen camping our wingers in the defensive zone because we didn't have the speed throughout the line-up to back them up. The result was pucks held in our defensive zone for long periods of time.

Last season, Richard Clune was the only sandpaper in our line-up. Gaustad would be the few times he wasn't hurt but for the most part the Predators leaned on Clune to provide energy through physical play.

Last season injuries killed us up front. Beck was called up and thrown on the first line as we had no one else to play wing. Bang, Henderson, Watson and Mueller where all playing big minutes.

Where was the hard working Predators? The aggressive forecheck? The relentless puck pursuit? The energy? To steal a phrase from Crisp, were was the lunch-pale?

Where these not big issues?

If Stalberg and Cullen don't add anything, they add speed in bunches.

Grit? Nystrom and Henderson are as gritty as Stalberg is fast.

Depth? We added 4 forwards and a back-up goalie.

This team is built the way Trotz likes his team to play, it's going to be fast, aggressive and gritty. Full of hard working blue collar players, elite defenders and an elite goalie.
And while I agree with what you say, the highlighted part is where I wonder. The type of team Trotz coaches or plays, while all fine and good in the regular season, it doesn't work in the playoffs and we've seen the results. I think we need to find the balance in all of this. We can't be all grit and sandpaper. We can't be all skill and soft. You have to have guys that are a mishmosh of all skill sets. You have to have skill players, you have to have bangers, you have to have energy/pk guys, you have to have guys that can win faceoffs. Honestly, some of these guys intertwined. You need a banger with skill. You need a guy with speed who can play the pk and win faceoffs. You can't have one dimensional guys that only fill one or two roles.

I look at the truly great teams and their top players play all three roles, ES, PP and PK. Granted, every team doesn't have a Toews, Hossa, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, etc. but at some point, we need guys like that and while yesterday wasn't a day to land any player of that caliber, I just hope these moves pay off.

Our bottom 6 is much better now. We filled up with guys who are proven NHL talents as opposed to NHL/AHL tweeners. I like the moves to some extent but worry about them at the same time.

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07-06-2013, 10:25 AM
  #754
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If you guys are looking for skill, and don't mind it coming in a small package, Montreal needs to unload a midget or two.

Desharnais is a 60 points a year type just entering his prime, high IQ skill guy, and he's locked up at a decent 3.5 mill/year contract.

He can probably be had for cheap. Gaustad and a meh prospect for DD and Moen/White?

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07-06-2013, 10:33 AM
  #755
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
And while I agree with what you say, the highlighted part is where I wonder. The type of team Trotz coaches or plays, while all fine and good in the regular season, it doesn't work in the playoffs and we've seen the results. I think we need to find the balance in all of this. We can't be all grit and sandpaper. We can't be all skill and soft. You have to have guys that are a mishmosh of all skill sets. You have to have skill players, you have to have bangers, you have to have energy/pk guys, you have to have guys that can win faceoffs. Honestly, some of these guys intertwined. You need a banger with skill. You need a guy with speed who can play the pk and win faceoffs. You can't have one dimensional guys that only fill one or two roles.

I look at the truly great teams and their top players play all three roles, ES, PP and PK. Granted, every team doesn't have a Toews, Hossa, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, etc. but at some point, we need guys like that and while yesterday wasn't a day to land any player of that caliber, I just hope these moves pay off.

Our bottom 6 is much better now. We filled up with guys who are proven NHL talents as opposed to NHL/AHL tweeners. I like the moves to some extent but worry about them at the same time.
I think it can work but guys like Beck, Wilson and Forsberg have to become better produce, if they can all become 60-70 point guys or close, we're good, really just need 2 of them to get there.

Boston's forwards aren't amazing, do they have a 70 point forward?

LA's cup season they had one player with more than 60 points. Not a single ppg player.

Teams can win with grit and depth if they can dominate puck possession.

We just have to count on guys like Forsberg, Wilson, Beck and Bourque to keep growing.

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Old
07-06-2013, 10:37 AM
  #756
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I think it can work but guys like Beck, Wilson and Forsberg have to become better produce, if they can all become 60-70 point guys or close, we're good, really just need 2 of them to get there.

Boston's forwards aren't amazing, do they have a 70 point forward?

LA's cup season they had one player with more than 60 points. Not a single ppg player.

Teams can win with grit and depth if they can dominate puck possession.

We just have to count on guys like Forsberg, Wilson, Beck and Bourque to keep growing.
I have high hopes for Beck and Forsberg. I just think this season is one for growing and building chemistry. Maybe the moves were made for long term growth and potential as opposed to making this years team a contender. Could it be that we're looking down the road some with this roster?

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07-06-2013, 10:40 AM
  #757
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My problem with the Hendricks and Nystrom signings isn't how much they got, it's the length of the contracts. You can deal with those contracts if it's only for a year or two but four years? That's insane for players like that. If you want to go 2/5 for Nystrom and 2/4 for Hendricks, fine. Don't sign them for almost half a decade though. If some other team wants to give them more, let them.
well, just like with Gaustad, if you want a UFA, you agree to their terms, or lose them to somewhere else.

Poile apparently wanted all of these guys and Im sure we werent the only ones bidding.

Ownership has given Poile the green light. I am pleased with the change in financial philosophy, regardless of who polie used the money on

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07-06-2013, 10:42 AM
  #758
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
I have high hopes for Beck and Forsberg. I just think this season is one for growing and building chemistry. Maybe the moves were made for long term growth and potential as opposed to making this years team a contender. Could it be that we're looking down the road some with this roster?
I think this is a reset. I think something happened in the '12 season and we got away from what we are after the trade deadline. We tried to go the scorers route picking up AK and Radulov and got away from the identity. I think all these moves were in an effort to get us back to that aggressive forechecking team we were the first part of the season.

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07-06-2013, 10:43 AM
  #759
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
I have high hopes for Beck and Forsberg. I just think this season is one for growing and building chemistry. Maybe the moves were made for long term growth and potential as opposed to making this years team a contender. Could it be that we're looking down the road some with this roster?
I do think Poile is setting up this team to return to competitiveness this year but will be a true competitor(like we were in 11-12) the following season when FF and Beck and Wilson are all more seasoned.

as for your concerns about this year, i suspect if we are definitely in a playoff spot come March Poile will look for a rental scorer

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07-06-2013, 10:47 AM
  #760
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I too have high hopes for Beck, does anyone here think he'll make the team or is it more likely he'll spend another year in Milwaukee?

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07-06-2013, 10:48 AM
  #761
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La had guys that can step up huge in playoffs. Look at the teams playoffs stats.

We don't have kopitar, carter, Richards, etc.

We can't score in playoffs.

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07-06-2013, 10:55 AM
  #762
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well, just like with Gaustad, if you want a UFA, you agree to their terms, or lose them to somewhere else.
I understand that but sometimes the best move is letting the players go somewhere else and I think that would have been the best move in this case.

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07-06-2013, 10:57 AM
  #763
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So i am curious.. Some of the usual negative energy in the Preds board are questioning what happened yesterday.

So let's hear it.

Who is a FA the preds could have signed and beat out 5 other teams money wise that you would be happy with?
Ryder and Roy. Nashville could have given Ryder more money than New Jersey did, and Roy is still on the market. Ryder is significantly older than Stalberg but also way more productive. Roy is six years younger than Cullen.

The four forward acquisitions yesterday produced a combined 0 power play goals this season, and just six points in total (2 assists for Stalberg, 4 for Cullen). The power play isn't necessarily indicative of offensive quality (Chicago's power play was worse than Nashville's last year), but it's one of a team's strongest opportunities for goals, and one ignores such opportunities at one's own peril.

Honestly, I would have been happy with Brunner, too. They could theoretically still go out and get Brunner, but if Poile is done making moves, I'm not entirely convinced this team has what it takes to get back to the playoffs.

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07-06-2013, 11:00 AM
  #764
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So i am curious.. Some of the usual negative energy in the Preds board are questioning what happened yesterday.

So let's hear it.

Who is a FA the preds could have signed and beat out 5 other teams money wise that you would be happy with?

Would you be happy with Horton who will not even be playing until December or after. A guy who has had injury issues and has missed a ton of time even though he is a top 6 forward? Would you be happy giving a guy with his history more money and years than Columbus did?

Are you going to be ok giving Clarkson the money he got to a 30 year old winger who has got hot 1 freaking time and scored over 17 goals in a season? Where you willing to give him more money and years than Toronto?

Come on who would make you happy and what kind of money would make you happy giving them?
Grabovski

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07-06-2013, 11:01 AM
  #765
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I too have high hopes for Beck, does anyone here think he'll make the team or is it more likely he'll spend another year in Milwaukee?
I will be a bit let down if he's not here all year. He's got nothing more to learn in the AHL.

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07-06-2013, 11:10 AM
  #766
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I think Beck is here. He proved himself, at least to me, in his short term here. He is a big body and if Poile and Trotz are true to their word, he will be here because of that. Honestly, if he can put it together as well as Wilson, that's some nice size up front with skill. Give Budish a year in Milwaukee and then he's a fixture here as well, we will finally have some size up front with skill. How nice would that be.

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07-06-2013, 11:14 AM
  #767
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I look at this team, and I still see a huge need for a top 6 forward. I still want to take a chance on Grabo, Roy, Brunner, or trade for a true top 6 forward. I "get" what we did, although I'm not sure I get the term, nor the amount. I don't "get" how we are constantly satisfied with mediocrity at the forward position.

Hendricks scored 8 points last year. 8 - in 57 games including his 0-for in the 7 games in the playoffs. He had 9 the year before in 70+ games and 3 more points in the 14 games in the playoffs. He doesn't score.

Nystrom has crested 10 goals twice at 11 and 16, but his career high is 21 points in a season. He has more offensive talent than Hendricks, but very little more.

We know what Gaustad is - he is a 9-12 goal - 10-15 assist guy.

These are not scorers. They are grinders. You can make a case that Gaustad is a fabulous faceoff specialist, but outside of that, I'm not even sure I would say they are truly elite grinders, or the best of the best in that regard.

We are paying them like they are the best. More than that, we decided to ignore the top 6, again, to pay them that way.

^That I don't get.

Prove me wrong Poile. Make a trade. Or .... maybe Wilson, Forsberg, Beck develop to the peak of their projection arc.

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07-06-2013, 11:22 AM
  #768
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Beck really impressed me with what I saw. I think he deserves to make the team out of camp. Kid is good.

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07-06-2013, 11:22 AM
  #769
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La had guys that can step up huge in playoffs. Look at the teams playoffs stats.

We don't have kopitar, carter, Richards, etc.

We can't score in playoffs.
None of those guys stepped up until the play offs. That's why they barely sneaked in, and then they all stepped their games up. You never really know who is going to step up in the post season until you get there. That's why anything can happen. I understand the frustration, but we're projecting quite a bit here. That's why they play the games. Anything can happen, and anyone can be a hero.

We know Rinne can step it up in the play offs. We know Weber is a great competitor, along with Klein. Josi is solid, and if we make the play offs this year it will be his first time playing in late in the spring with some seasoning. The same goes for Wilson, to be honest, and we all saw how he had stepped it up last season. Forsberg, Beck, Bourque and Jones are all unknowns. Fish steps up when we need him.

All it takes it for your goalie to be hot, your defense to be sound, players who can handle the physical game that gets going even more and a couple of your offensive guys to step it up. That plus some puck luck and we could surprise.

Or we could falter like we have in the past. However, this is a different team, and the teams around us are different, too. The play off set up is different. The coaching staff has changed. We can't look back to the past too much to make predictions for the future.

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07-06-2013, 11:29 AM
  #770
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I too was impressed with Beck last year. I expect him to make the team.

The guys we signed aren't bad players, just doesn't address our glaring need.
Outside of Wilson/Horny; depending on Forsberg, Beck, and Smith to be our point producers is gambling a bit. Stalberg is ok, but unproven in the top 6 as well.

Better yes; playoff team - not so much.

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07-06-2013, 11:31 AM
  #771
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Having slept on Poiles decisions couple of thoughts.

It's not that I disagree with the players he brought in so much as the contracts that he gave out o said players. The $$$ and length are just insane. While not MacArthur insane, they are still unacceptable. We are paying far too much or far too long on Cullen, Hendricks, and Nystrom. I got no issue with Stalberg. That was perfect. I like the grit and the speed. I don't like the price.

We are still going to be in the bottom 10 in offense next year. There is no getting around that. This team is built the predator way. We will make the playoffs but once again get crushed in the firs round by a team that is just as deep but has far superior offensive talent up front. When I hear going back to the predator way, that's what I think of. Let us not forget that we beat Detroit by deviating from the predator way and that was only the 2nd time we have ever made it to the second round.

I also think Poile is putting far too much faith in FF, Beck, Borque, and frankly Wilson. Wilson only got his head on straight this year. Lets see what he does in a full year before we crown him the savior. Forsberg is only 18. Lets see what a full season of punishment and NA hockey and trotz dog housing does to him.

I look at this roster and I don't see a champion. I see first round fodder. I've been wrong before, but I have also been right a lot. I honestly look at what Poile did yesterday as stubbornness in one's ways. Is that a good thing? Depends on who you ask around here. We still are lacking at least 1 top six forward. We are never going to win a cup without a game changer. Could Wilson or FF be that? Maybe, but not yet.

I feel like we are cutting corners. This team needed a reboot. A full rebuild and while we got that, I disagree with the manner in which we did. We rebuilt the bottom six and the core while we should've been focusing on the top six while trading for complimentary parts for the bottom six with left overs parts. The way Halischuck and Blum were handled really gives me some pause. Halischuck scored 15 goals for us one year. Blum was fantastic for a year. What happened with these guys? What happened to the organization's faith in them?

I believe that Poile is a fantastic GM at developing a solid core, a good organization, and a guru of defensemen. I do not, however, believe he can build a true contender or at least is unwilling to do so. Sports is a cycle. Look at Colorado. They sucked in Quebec. They brought in and drafted the right guys. They became really good for essentially a decade. Now they suck and are drafting high in order to bring the right guys in to compete and build a champion. Look at LA. Look at Chicago. Look at Boaton. Perhaps Nashville hasn't had that luxury as we need butts in seats, but Poile had a real chance to rebuild this offseason and instead we have more of the same. Personally, I am tired of it. A great example is a guy like Ryder, a pure goal scorer. He got the same exact contract that Cullen did and fits our needs better than Cullen. Why wasn't Ryder brought in?

Ultimately, the people that believe in Poile and trotz can and will always defend them while those that question will also continue to support the team in their own way. This year marks 15 years of mediocrity. Some surprising successes, but no ultimate victories. In my mind, Poile and Trotz live or die this season. Lets hope they know what they are doing. Regardless on where you fall on this fence, I am really sick of hearing all this *****ing from defenders of the organization calling us sceptics "fans" or questioning our commitment to the team. That is absolutely uncalled for and trolling and should be viewed as such.

I suppose we will see who is right soon enough.

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07-06-2013, 11:32 AM
  #772
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I actually have bought in to what Poile did.

Last season we couldn't keep position of the puck because our "dump and chase" was dump and backcheck, we didn't have the speed to regain the puck. Our forcheck was also effected by the lack of speed, we had gotten away from our normal aggressive forecheck and sat back more. We also had defensemen camping our wingers in the defensive zone because we didn't have the speed throughout the line-up to back them up. The result was pucks held in our defensive zone for long periods of time.

Last season, Richard Clune was the only sandpaper in our line-up. Gaustad would be the few times he wasn't hurt but for the most part the Predators leaned on Clune to provide energy through physical play.

Last season injuries killed us up front. Beck was called up and thrown on the first line as we had no one else to play wing. Bang, Henderson, Watson and Mueller where all playing big minutes.

Where was the hard working Predators? The aggressive forecheck? The relentless puck pursuit? The energy? To steal a phrase from Crisp, were was the lunch-pale?

Where these not big issues?

If Stalberg and Cullen don't add anything, they add speed in bunches.

Grit? Nystrom and Henderson are as gritty as Stalberg is fast.

Depth? We added 4 forwards and a back-up goalie.

This team is built the way Trotz likes his team to play, it's going to be fast, aggressive and gritty. Full of hard working blue collar players, elite defenders and an elite goalie.
Let's sign couple of short-trackers to address our luck of speed.

We got one already: according to Hawks Stalberg Lol

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07-06-2013, 11:36 AM
  #773
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I think DP/Trotz put together the gritty defensive team they want, and now they'll gamble on the guys they did sign and growth from the younger guys.

Stalberg scored 22 the last full season without top line ice time. If he can make that step up, it's not out of the realm of possibility that he can get to 25-30.

Cullen is a durable, reliable two way center - same as Legwand and Fisher. Center won't be a black hole if one of them gets hurt.

Nystrom - I don't see what people are complaining about. He's a nasty tough guy who can actually score (16 goals in last full season, 7 last year). He scored more goals than Martin Erat last year.

Hendricks - Brings grit and wins shootouts. We lost 6 last year.

It's clear that DP/Trotz believes that Stalberg/Wilson/Beck/Forsberg will step up and start to become the offensive drivers of this team. I personally don't see how they won't produce more than SK/Erat. We'll get some offense from Bourque (20G pace), Fisher/Leggy/Cullen. We'll generate offense from the blue line. This is a team that will score from the top to the bottom lines.

Did we fix the major problem with this team - no puck possession and no one who could break the puck out of our defensive zone.

Will it work? We'll see. But I haven't seen a single "winners/losers" list that has the Preds on the "losers" side, and many of them have us as big winners yesterday.

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07-06-2013, 11:40 AM
  #774
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Nystrom - I don't see what people are complaining about. He's a nasty tough guy who can actually score (16 goals in last full season, 7 last year). He scored more goals than Martin Erat last year.
2.5mil/per yr.

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07-06-2013, 11:41 AM
  #775
BigFatCat999
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Location: Campbell, NY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tserberis View Post
Let's sign couple of short-trackers to address our luck of speed.

We got one already: according to Hawks Stalberg Lol
My Preds speed line Bourque-Cullen-Stalberg

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