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Mact's performance thus far.

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Old
07-06-2013, 02:01 AM
  #501
Paralyzer008
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Originally Posted by Baggers View Post
I like Horcoff-out/Gordon-in if the team actually uses some of that salary cap space to bring in another legitimate NHL center and fill some of the rest of the gaping holes on the team.

So far, MacT's 'bold' off-season resembles Tambo's off-season a few years back where they brought in Eager, Belanger, Hordichuk, and Barker and allowed the team to enter the season with gaping holes.
This.

Tambo never landed a guy like Ference, but one guy doesn't transform you into a playoff team when you have many holes.

MacT has a lot of work to do still and it only gets harder as days go by.

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07-06-2013, 02:24 AM
  #502
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Cap space is useless if you can't use it. MacT needs to make some trades for that 2.5 to matter.
Thankfully it seems like there are still opportunities for that space to be used. On the free agent front, I'd welcome any of Grabovski, Antropov, Jagr, Gagne, Hainsey, Penner, White, Cleary, etc.

On the trade front, Meszaros could be nice, as could one of N. Foligno/Umberger, as would Malone, even a guy like David Legwand. They don't have to be huge additions to improve the team, and the benefit of having so much cap space to burn in a tight cap year is that some truly useful pieces should be available for less than their on-ice value would suggest.

The bottom line is that MacT still has a lot of work to do. Ference + Gordon is a great start though.

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07-06-2013, 03:05 AM
  #503
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Man oh man boy do some people love to just dogpile for the sake of it. You better put on your ruby red shoes and click three times if we are thinking this team is going to transform overnight and be a playoff contender. More baggage then Air Canada, but we NEED to make the BIG change yesterday. Phfffft.

As Gregor or Stauffer said today, free agents your going to overpay. Hopefully, your going to get some return on your investment. Unlike Dallas on the Seguin deal.

Mac T isn't done so cut him a bit of slack. FYI nobody in the past wanted to come here period due to 6 rings and the circus show. We have one more mutt to get rid of in Hemsky and the transformation begins. I don't really care if Gordon or the rest don't have the best stats. I want players willing to give whatever they have game in and out. Pounding the pooch isn't an option now. Can't wait until training camp to start.

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07-06-2013, 04:01 AM
  #504
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He got the guys he targeted outside of Clarkson. He had to overpay them or overterm them but we needed them. Maybe Gordon can teach everyone else how to win a faceoff. Thank god he stopped MacT at three years, apparently MacT was trying to get more.

I think Ference wanted to come here anyway but in such a shallow pool for D this year he was one of the more coveted guys. Eakins' knows the other guys so they must not be junk. Would be cool if Jonessuu can throw in the occasional goal on the 4th line.

I wonder how close we were to getting Clarkson. MacT seemed ridiculously upset about it. I think he thought it was a done deal but I wonder if Clarkson and his agent just played him because they knew that Toronto was under a lot of pressure to sign him.

But I think Nonis saved MacT from himself. Im sure it was the oilers that put 7 years on the table. Nonis looked like he thought he was an idiot for giving that contract to Clarkson. Ive never seen a guy look less happy about getting the biggest guy. He was asked about the term and said "let's focus on year one." Even he knows it was too much term.

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07-06-2013, 04:56 AM
  #505
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I am kinda concerned with the cap management. Yes we have needs, but the Clarkson deal was insanity.

He'd be earning pretty much the same as Taylor Hall at similar term

And to think a few years ago people were arguing that $2 mill or so was too much for Glencross.

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07-06-2013, 05:24 AM
  #506
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As a fan, the big concern for me is that the Oilers will move Paajarvi and simply create another hole in the line-up.

We do not need a defenseman right now. I'm am happy with the addition of Ference as a legit no.4 guy. The onus should be on J. Schultz and Petry to IMPROVE. Improvement of existing players is the most important part of seeing the overall performance of the team improve.

As for Magnus, he's our biggest skilled player at 6-3 and 208. If he can add 10 lbs of muscle, he'll at least be a threat in front of the net on the pp (which he was later in the season) and create a little bit of space for more skilled players (could be RNH and Eberle or Hall and Gagner).

Here's some food for thought on Paajarvi last season.

First 14 games: 2 points, -4, played under 10 minutes 6 times, played under 12 minutes 13 times.

Final 28 games: 14 points, +3, played more than 12 minutes in 27 games, played more than 15 minutes in 18 games.

Point being, I think Kruger absolutely misused Magnus most of the season. He should be a solid 2nd/3rd line player in the NHL. That means a 15-20 goal and 40-50 point producer. He doesn't fight. He isn't an effective hitter (although adding some weight will help him fight through traffic and win puck battles).

I see Paajarvi as a major solution to our "2nd line LW" situation. Bring in another similar player - maybe more grit - to rotate on the no.2 and no.3 lines with Paajarvi. We don't need a world beater.

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07-06-2013, 05:33 AM
  #507
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Paajarvi and "threat in front of the net" should never be mentioned in conjunction with each other again.

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07-06-2013, 10:22 AM
  #508
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Adam Proteau ‏@Proteautype
Teams I think have had the best off-season (incl. draft, trades & free agency) so far: 1. Stars 2. Wings 3. Blue Jackets 4. Preds 5. Oilers

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Old
07-06-2013, 10:44 AM
  #509
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky4PM View Post
As a fan, the big concern for me is that the Oilers will move Paajarvi and simply create another hole in the line-up.

We do not need a defenseman right now. I'm am happy with the addition of Ference as a legit no.4 guy. The onus should be on J. Schultz and Petry to IMPROVE. Improvement of existing players is the most important part of seeing the overall performance of the team improve.

As for Magnus, he's our biggest skilled player at 6-3 and 208. If he can add 10 lbs of muscle, he'll at least be a threat in front of the net on the pp (which he was later in the season) and create a little bit of space for more skilled players (could be RNH and Eberle or Hall and Gagner).

Here's some food for thought on Paajarvi last season.

First 14 games: 2 points, -4, played under 10 minutes 6 times, played under 12 minutes 13 times.

Final 28 games: 14 points, +3, played more than 12 minutes in 27 games, played more than 15 minutes in 18 games.

Point being, I think Kruger absolutely misused Magnus most of the season. He should be a solid 2nd/3rd line player in the NHL. That means a 15-20 goal and 40-50 point producer. He doesn't fight. He isn't an effective hitter (although adding some weight will help him fight through traffic and win puck battles).

I see Paajarvi as a major solution to our "2nd line LW" situation. Bring in another similar player - maybe more grit - to rotate on the no.2 and no.3 lines with Paajarvi. We don't need a world beater.
I like Paajarvi as a third-line winger. I think he and Gordon could be a good pairing. And some size and snarl on the other wing, and you're off to a good start.

I would hate to start him in the top-six. I get the sense he's a player you don't want to let get in over his head, or he loses confidence and focus. Let him play some tough minutes in a checking role; I think he can handle it and it would be good for his development.

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07-06-2013, 11:56 AM
  #510
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Paajarvi and "threat in front of the net" should never be mentioned in conjunction with each other again.
Shades of Petr Nedved

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07-06-2013, 12:02 PM
  #511
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Other than Clarkson, has it come out yet which other UFAs MacT was in on yesterday?

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07-06-2013, 12:06 PM
  #512
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Other than Clarkson, has it come out yet which other UFAs MacT was in on yesterday?
Eric Nystrom.

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Old
07-06-2013, 12:29 PM
  #513
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Originally Posted by Verdadero View Post
Honestly after the Horcoff trade they are behind last year. Anyone who thinks Gordon is better than Horcoff is not dealing with reality. Horcoff was a 1/2C tweener who could play tough opposition. Slowed down by age and injury but he was still really important to the team as seen while he was out with injury. Gordon was a fringe NHLer before last year and now maybe a 3/4C tweener. The Coyotes system hides a lot of stuff so we will see. Even with a broken hand last year Horcoff outscored Gordon on a PPG and GPG basis. There is no comparison unless you blindly hate Horcoff which many do. Adding Gordon to Horcoff would have improved the team but a straight swap is a negative. So a position of weakness is even worse through subtraction, RNH has a busted wing, Gagner is less than ideal, and the rest are fringe players.

The wingers are still totally unbalanced with lots of skill but little size in the top 6. No big LW appeared today in spite of the whale hunt that failed once again. Bottom 6 wingers are MSP plus a collection of old, lame and fringe players that they hope can emerge. The disaster that is the Oilers bottom 6 doesn't really lend itself to that so this has improved little until their lottery tickets prove otherwise.

Defense is marginally improved but the main problem was the top pair and adding a 4/5 guy on the downside like Ference doesn't help much. He's best suited to a 3rd pair role from now on because of age and will probably decline quickly. So defense is better but not much and not in the right place.

Goaltending actually saw the only value signing in terms of price and term with Labarberra yet people hate the deal. Go figure. I'm not wild about the guy and I suspect they brought him in as a kiss and makeup deal for Dubnyk (they are training partners). Dubnyk is UFA next summer but the GM gave him a vote of marginal confidence at the end of the season and then tried to trade for someone to replace him at the draft. Think he's in love with the org right now? Not likely and he won't likely believe a word they say from here forward. Dubnyk going UFA is very possible now and there is no one in the system capable of replacing him.

So all I see accomplished so far is a modest improvement on defense (but at the wrong position), a downgrade at center, no new size on the wings, and a new danger point created in goal for no good reason. This team is lottery bound with any injury to a top pair dman, top 6 center or starting goalie. Hemsky's marginal value has been obliterated by the GM flapping his gums and most of the potential suitors have filled their dance cards (BOS, OTT, PIT CLB). To be honest I think the Oilers thought they could obtain Schneider at the draft, trade Coburn for Dubnyk and MSP, and get Clarke/Boyd at UFA. But Vancouver played them for a chump and the whole thing blew up in their faces. Sure they have cap room but that doesn't help on the ice and anyway I bet the owner wants to be about $10 million under the cap to line his jeans a bit better.
I agree with much of your post except that Gordon for Horcoff is an upgrade if you are only going to play the player in a prevent role.

That role is not ideal for Horcoff and is one of the real problems anyone coaching the Oilers had dover the last few years.

Horcoff needs to be played in an out scorer role and Edmonton only had small useless centers beside him, so there you have it. Horcoff is the third line center.

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07-06-2013, 12:39 PM
  #514
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If you think a shark has jumped, maybe limit the support. Been obvious for awhile.
Yeah Fonzie really put on the water skies for me when they rehired Mactavish after so transparently let Tambelinni twist in the wind for a year. Mactavish and the rest of the management team extolled the virtues of doing nothing at the 2012 UFA season, stared at the ground after the strike ended and in February when centers were dropping like flies, only got Smithson at the deadline. Then they fire Tambelinni as the fall guy and all of a sudden become impatient men of action? It's laughable. Mactavish and Lowe had direct oversight and authority over personnel decisions and agreed to do nothing all year. They gave up on the team, the season and fans to give Lowe an excuse to bring back a favorite old boy as GM even though he has zero experience in the role. Firing Kruger after a half season, no training camp and zero player improvements via skype just put a cherry on top of it. Philosophical differences probably involved suggesting that the assistant coaches were useless.

Ordinary fans may not think too deeply about this stuff but players, agents and other management around the league can see whats going on and it effects the Oilers ability to sign UFA and make trades. Most fans are still in denial about all of this, but a few people on this site can and have already passed through bargaining, anger or sadness. Acceptance probably involves doing something else until these guys disappear because it's not going to get better until that happens.

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07-06-2013, 12:45 PM
  #515
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I personally feel that other than the bolland trade (dunno is they would have traded him to western team) every other trade and signing the oilers didn't do were not right for the team. Its pretty obvious most teams were waiting to see how july 5th went to look for trade options. He clearly has more work to be done and I doubt he stays here. I think this years FA signings are much better than the belanger eager year as there are no bets in the NHL players we signed. They have consistently proven what they bring for many years. The only player Tambo signed like that was belanger and he turned out to be a train wreck.

IF Mac t makes a trade/trades for size and toughness (I would think he wants to trade hemsky N schultz and pick/prospects for a #2 lw and top 4 d) I will be extremely happy with this offseason. If he stands still and resigns players we had last year to fill these rolls I will feel that other than defense we basically stood pat which is not good enough.

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07-06-2013, 12:47 PM
  #516
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verdadero View Post
Honestly after the Horcoff trade they are behind last year. Anyone who thinks Gordon is better than Horcoff is not dealing with reality. Horcoff was a 1/2C tweener who could play tough opposition. Slowed down by age and injury but he was still really important to the team as seen while he was out with injury. Gordon was a fringe NHLer before last year and now maybe a 3/4C tweener. The Coyotes system hides a lot of stuff so we will see. Even with a broken hand last year Horcoff outscored Gordon on a PPG and GPG basis. There is no comparison unless you blindly hate Horcoff which many do. Adding Gordon to Horcoff would have improved the team but a straight swap is a negative. So a position of weakness is even worse through subtraction, RNH has a busted wing, Gagner is less than ideal, and the rest are fringe players.

The wingers are still totally unbalanced with lots of skill but little size in the top 6. No big LW appeared today in spite of the whale hunt that failed once again. Bottom 6 wingers are MSP plus a collection of old, lame and fringe players that they hope can emerge. The disaster that is the Oilers bottom 6 doesn't really lend itself to that so this has improved little until their lottery tickets prove otherwise.

Defense is marginally improved but the main problem was the top pair and adding a 4/5 guy on the downside like Ference doesn't help much. He's best suited to a 3rd pair role from now on because of age and will probably decline quickly. So defense is better but not much and not in the right place.

Goaltending actually saw the only value signing in terms of price and term with Labarberra yet people hate the deal. Go figure. I'm not wild about the guy and I suspect they brought him in as a kiss and makeup deal for Dubnyk (they are training partners). Dubnyk is UFA next summer but the GM gave him a vote of marginal confidence at the end of the season and then tried to trade for someone to replace him at the draft. Think he's in love with the org right now? Not likely and he won't likely believe a word they say from here forward. Dubnyk going UFA is very possible now and there is no one in the system capable of replacing him.

So all I see accomplished so far is a modest improvement on defense (but at the wrong position), a downgrade at center, no new size on the wings, and a new danger point created in goal for no good reason. This team is lottery bound with any injury to a top pair dman, top 6 center or starting goalie. Hemsky's marginal value has been obliterated by the GM flapping his gums and most of the potential suitors have filled their dance cards (BOS, OTT, PIT CLB). To be honest I think the Oilers thought they could obtain Schneider at the draft, trade Coburn for Dubnyk and MSP, and get Clarke/Boyd at UFA. But Vancouver played them for a chump and the whole thing blew up in their faces. Sure they have cap room but that doesn't help on the ice and anyway I bet the owner wants to be about $10 million under the cap to line his jeans a bit better.
I disagree completely with Horcoff and Gordon. Gordon played exact same EV and PK minutes as horcoff and had similar EV points and way better PK points. Horcoff played on PP and gordon didn't that is where the point difference is and if you put Gordon on our PP like you did Horcoff he would score almost identical to how horcoff did.

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07-06-2013, 12:51 PM
  #517
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The ENTIRE Tambellini period in case you missed it or do you also beleive he was really in charge

I'll take my tinfoil hat over your blue pill acceptance of the last 7 years of so-called hockey management that has destroyed the legacy of this team.
Again, I want solid proof where Kevin Lowe DIRECTLY interefered.

Not because Oh he's the President of Hockey Ops. That's a ****** "reason".

I want some articles, some links, SOMETHING that backs up your statement. Not just some reaching for bullcrap.

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07-06-2013, 12:52 PM
  #518
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Wrong quote;

But if someone who is so disgusted with the team, why do they still continue to cheer for them or support them?

If something brings nothing but suffering, you have a choice of opting out. I don't understand.

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07-06-2013, 12:53 PM
  #519
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If you hate this team so god damn much, why do you force yourself to watch it?

I don't get why people do things that they don't like.
wrong quote bro

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07-06-2013, 12:54 PM
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wrong quote bro
Totally

Sorry man.

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07-06-2013, 12:54 PM
  #521
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Man, I swore I had seen the last of "Horcoff is a 1C."

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07-06-2013, 12:59 PM
  #522
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I am kinda concerned with the cap management. Yes we have needs, but the Clarkson deal was insanity.

He'd be earning pretty much the same as Taylor Hall at similar term

And to think a few years ago people were arguing that $2 mill or so was too much for Glencross.
I remember Oilers management were worried that Glencross was the next Scott Fraser, who the Rangers ended up overpaying for a strong 20 game stretch at the end of the Oilers 1997-98 season.

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07-06-2013, 12:59 PM
  #523
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Wrong quote;

But if someone who is so disgusted with the team, why do they still continue to cheer for them or support them?

If something brings nothing but suffering, you have a choice of opting out. I don't understand.
But agree completely. I understand frustration and anger I have been experiencing both for years now. But I am not going to go around bashing my team constantly and being upset about everything they do. If you have 0 faith in your team whatsoever why cheer for them? the results on the ice don't lie they are poorly run but if you entire existance as a fan is to continually be upset at your team why support them?

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07-06-2013, 12:59 PM
  #524
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If you hate this team so god damn much, why do you force yourself to watch it?

I don't get why people do things that they don't like.
Have to say that this reply is pretty unreasonable given what was posted. I did not read into the poster you responded to being overtly negative. Certainly not hateful and all you inferred in that post.

People here are fans of the club obviously. Passionate in all its forms and reactions with those reactions only being different. There isn't one fashion and size reaction that fits all. We all express it differently. Another question could be why you are so concerned with how others appropriately express themselves?

I'm sure its OK if people appropriately express some concerns on a fan messageboard.

edit: not sure who you were responding to or why. You did quote Aequitas when I wrote this lol.

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07-06-2013, 01:03 PM
  #525
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Have to say that this reply is pretty unreasonable given what was posted. I did not read into the poster you responded to being overtly negative. Certainly not hateful and all you inferred in that post.

People here are fans of the club obviously. Passionate in all its forms and reactions with those reactions only being different. There isn't one fashion and size reaction that fits all. We all express it differently. Another question could be why you are so concerned with how others appropriately express themselves?

I'm sure its OK if people appropriately express some concerns on a fan messageboard.

edit: not sure who you were responding to or why. You did quote Aequitas when I wrote this lol.
I feel like what he is trying to say isn't that a negative reaction to a move is proving said people aren't fans. Its the constant (This team will never be good with KLowe in office) type posts. They are constant and show a belief that this team will never succeed no matter if the move is a positive or negative. So if you believe that why cheer? I am more curious too than argumentative.

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