HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Canadiens sign Daniel Briere for 2YR/8M (w/NMC) - Part II: ******** welcomed

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-06-2013, 08:08 AM
  #576
Sorinth
Registered User
 
Sorinth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,444
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
That was my initial reaction.. I just don't know anymore. If Briere can return to form Briere >> Cole, if not Cole > Briere based on team needs.
And what if Cole returns to form? If they both return to form I take Cole, if neither returns to form I take Cole. So who has a better chance of returning to form? Tough to say but I think I still go with Cole since Briere has been declining over 2 seasons and has been having injury trouble whereas Cole has only had one bad season after coming off a career year and has been healthy.

Sorinth is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2013, 08:21 AM
  #577
RBR
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,529
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
And what if Cole returns to form? If they both return to form I take Cole, if neither returns to form I take Cole. So who has a better chance of returning to form? Tough to say but I think I still go with Cole since Briere has been declining over 2 seasons and has been having injury trouble whereas Cole has only had one bad season after coming off a career year and has been healthy.
Briere has a much longer track record of proven success, and his peaks have been far higher than Erik Cole's.

RBR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2013, 09:00 AM
  #578
Sorinth
Registered User
 
Sorinth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,444
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RBR View Post
Briere has a much longer track record of proven success, and his peaks have been far higher than Erik Cole's.
What happened 5+ years ago doesn't really matter, we are not getting the Briere from 07. The last few seasons is more indicative what we should expect, if Briere bounces back he can get 60pts, so can Cole. But even if Cole would only give us 50pt it would still be a better fit for us.

Sorinth is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2013, 09:21 AM
  #579
Analyzer
#WeAreBoston
 
Analyzer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Renfrew, ON.
Country: Canada
Posts: 41,018
vCash: 500

Analyzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2013, 09:22 AM
  #580
macavoy
Registered User
 
macavoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 7,460
vCash: 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
What happened 5+ years ago doesn't really matter, we are not getting the Briere from 07. The last few seasons is more indicative what we should expect, if Briere bounces back he can get 60pts, so can Cole. But even if Cole would only give us 50pt it would still be a better fit for us.
I agree except if you factor playoff performance, Briere > Cole.

Briere does have heart, he has been consistent throughout his career with that. I really would have preferred 1 year as a true stop gap but what can you do, you can't get everything you want.

Factor in Cole's comments last year and he is less likely to rebound than Briere is. Briere has something to prove by coming here, he chose us. That's a positive.

macavoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2013, 10:37 AM
  #581
Sam I Am
Registered User
 
Sam I Am's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,307
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WG View Post
For one, the Philly fans who have dropped in have mentioned that DB is nowhere near as effective on the wing vs centre. Here's hoping that MT doesn't end up having to move Eller to wing in order to accommodate DB as a #3 centre.

For two, we could in theory have replaced Ryder with, well, Ryder, who signed for less money despite the fact that he's younger, less injury prone and more productive than DB.
Bergevin (and others the press) have made a big deal about how much we've improved by subbing out Ryder for Briere.

I'm not quite so sure...

Sam I Am is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2013, 10:39 AM
  #582
Sorinth
Registered User
 
Sorinth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,444
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
I agree except if you factor playoff performance, Briere > Cole.

Briere does have heart, he has been consistent throughout his career with that. I really would have preferred 1 year as a true stop gap but what can you do, you can't get everything you want.

Factor in Cole's comments last year and he is less likely to rebound than Briere is. Briere has something to prove by coming here, he chose us. That's a positive.
In the playoffs Briere has been near the bottom of the team's +/-. That's a red flag for me. If he's scoring all these goals I would expect a better +/-, the last few years he's arguably been hurting more than helping in the playoffs.

Sorinth is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2013, 10:50 AM
  #583
poetryinmotion
Registered User
 
poetryinmotion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 5,078
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
And what if Cole returns to form? If they both return to form I take Cole, if neither returns to form I take Cole. So who has a better chance of returning to form? Tough to say but I think I still go with Cole since Briere has been declining over 2 seasons and has been having injury trouble whereas Cole has only had one bad season after coming off a career year and has been healthy.
I think Cole's first season here skewed the perception of what kind of player he is. Let's not forget he had a career year, then followed by a terrible one. He's more of a 25 goal 50 pt player - at best.

Briere at his best is a .ppg player and playoff hero despite how much we hate his tiny (or huge) guts.

poetryinmotion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2013, 10:56 AM
  #584
Et le But
Moderator
 
Et le But's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York
Country: Argentina
Posts: 17,644
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
I think Cole's first season here skewed the perception of what kind of player he is. Let's not forget he had a career year, then followed by a terrible one. He's more of a 25 goal 50 pt player - at best.

Briere at his best is a .ppg player and playoff hero despite how much we hate his tiny (or huge) guts.
Briere at his best wasn't 36 and not adequately sheltered.

Et le But is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2013, 11:00 AM
  #585
Sorinth
Registered User
 
Sorinth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,444
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
I think Cole's first season here skewed the perception of what kind of player he is. Let's not forget he had a career year, then followed by a terrible one. He's more of a 25 goal 50 pt player - at best.

Briere at his best is a .ppg player and playoff hero despite how much we hate his tiny (or huge) guts.
It's been 8 years since Briere has been a .ppg player. Those days are over, if he rebounds he'll be a 60pt player. I'll take the 6'2 50pt player who uses his size over the 5'10 60pt player. And for all his playoff heroics Cole is the one with the ring not Briere.

Sorinth is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2013, 11:03 AM
  #586
Rosso Scuderia
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,978
vCash: 500
Going from a big team to a small team like us, let's see Briere can be as effective.

Rosso Scuderia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2013, 11:06 AM
  #587
OneSharpMarble
Registered User
 
OneSharpMarble's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,219
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
I think Cole's first season here skewed the perception of what kind of player he is. Let's not forget he had a career year, then followed by a terrible one. He's more of a 25 goal 50 pt player - at best.

Briere at his best is a .ppg player and playoff hero despite how much we hate his tiny (or huge) guts.
You are in fantasyland if you think briere will be PPG on a non-offensive team like Montreal while playing with tiny guys who skate away when you catch an elbow. He will have zero space made for him, this will be a brutal season for our midgets.

OneSharpMarble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2013, 11:22 AM
  #588
YMCMBeaulieu
A$AP MICHEL
 
YMCMBeaulieu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,464
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
It's been 8 years since Briere has been a .ppg player. Those days are over, if he rebounds he'll be a 60pt player. I'll take the 6'2 50pt player who uses his size over the 5'10 60pt player. And for all his playoff heroics Cole is the one with the ring not Briere.
Cole played 2 games in the playoffs the year they won the cup...

YMCMBeaulieu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2013, 11:38 AM
  #589
poetryinmotion
Registered User
 
poetryinmotion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 5,078
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Briere at his best wasn't 36 and not adequately sheltered.
This is true, but you never know he might find an other gear playing for us.

Other than that we were the 3rd highest scoring team in the league last year, so in a way he will be sheltered among scorers and not have to carry the load. Might inflate his total provided he brings it every night of course.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
It's been 8 years since Briere has been a .ppg player. Those days are over, if he rebounds he'll be a 60pt player. I'll take the 6'2 50pt player who uses his size over the 5'10 60pt player. And for all his playoff heroics Cole is the one with the ring not Briere.
First things first, he had well over a point per season that year. He was truly elite in a way which Cole (or even Ryder) never was.

Now, my argument clearly stated 'at their best' and Briere simply kills Cole in that department who was never more than a 25g scoring habs killing forward while Briere dipped his toe in the elite pool.

And since his more than .ppg year he maintained a very respectable .81 ppg brefore it taking a nose dive last year on a troubled Flyers team. He basically has the same stats as Lecavalier who signed 5yrs at a bigger cap hit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
You are in fantasyland if you think briere will be PPG on a non-offensive team like Montreal while playing with tiny guys who skate away when you catch an elbow. He will have zero space made for him, this will be a brutal season for our midgets.
Briere has always been one to take care of his own battles, much like Cammalleri. He is a feisty one and I don't think our team dynamic will have much of a negative effect on his style of play, kinda like Gallagher in that regard.

Now I feel dirty can't believe I just defended that m..player.

poetryinmotion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2013, 11:43 AM
  #590
Habs
Registered User
 
Habs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,267
vCash: 500
People are justifying the Briere signing based on his playoff performances... what about the 82 game schedule he has to earn his money? Isn't he supposed to help get us to the post season? I personally don't think the Habs will make the playoffs next season, I think it's more of a matter of what other teams have done, plus having Detroit in the East.

This is why I really don't like the signing... Briere doesn't really bring what we need. I could see him being a good fit if we had a strong team moving forward, but not an already small team in rebuilding mode.

Habs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2013, 11:57 AM
  #591
Sorinth
Registered User
 
Sorinth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,444
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
First things first, he had well over a point per season that year. He was truly elite in a way which Cole (or even Ryder) never was.

Now, my argument clearly stated 'at their best' and Briere simply kills Cole in that department who was never more than a 25g scoring habs killing forward while Briere dipped his toe in the elite pool.

And since his more than .ppg year he maintained a very respectable .81 ppg brefore it taking a nose dive last year on a troubled Flyers team. He basically has the same stats as Lecavalier who signed 5yrs at a bigger cap hit.
Since Briere's best was 8 years ago the chances of him getting back there are virtually none. Should we bring Gretzky out of retirement because at his best he was better than anyone we have now? Also why is Cole "never more than a 25g scoring habs killing forward" when he's had seasons of 35, 30, 29 goals.

A year ago today Cole was coming off a 35 goal season, Briere was coming off a disappointing 16 goal season.

Lecavalier is 2 years younger so it makes sense that his contract is longer. He's also not coming off a season where his production nose-dived like Brieres. The cap hits are 500K apart hardly much difference and he addresses a need which is size in the top-6.

Sorinth is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2013, 12:04 PM
  #592
FlyingKostitsyn
Registered User
 
FlyingKostitsyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Quebec
Country: Australia
Posts: 8,018
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
Since Briere's best was 8 years ago the chances of him getting back there are virtually none. Should we bring Gretzky out of retirement because at his best he was better than anyone we have now? Also why is Cole "never more than a 25g scoring habs killing forward" when he's had seasons of 35, 30, 29 goals.

A year ago today Cole was coming off a 35 goal season, Briere was coming off a disappointing 16 goal season.

Lecavalier is 2 years younger so it makes sense that his contract is longer. He's also not coming off a season where his production nose-dived like Brieres. The cap hits are 500K apart hardly much difference and he addresses a need which is size in the top-6.
Briere does not need to be at his peak to be at Cole's level. Briere has had a much better career so far and they are pretty much at the same age.

Hopefully his claims of great hapiness from signing with the Habs are real and he bounces back. That he's been booed for a while in MTL and that he's had a down season last year might prove to be great motivation.

I think we should let the guy play and give him a chance. I'm still not sure he's the right fit of course but its unfair to crucify him before he's played a single game with us.

FlyingKostitsyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2013, 12:17 PM
  #593
Sorinth
Registered User
 
Sorinth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,444
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
Briere does not need to be at his peak to be at Cole's level. Briere has had a much better career so far and they are pretty much at the same age.

Hopefully his claims of great hapiness from signing with the Habs are real and he bounces back. That he's been booed for a while in MTL and that he's had a down season last year might prove to be great motivation.

I think we should let the guy play and give him a chance. I'm still not sure he's the right fit of course but its unfair to crucify him before he's played a single game with us.
It doesn't matter how good his career was, it comes down to what can he bring for the next 2 years. I suspect that will be less than what Cole would've brought us. It could be a great motivation or it could be a sign that he's declining and then when the fans get on his back he'll have an even harder time bouncing back. At 4m it's not a risk I would want to take.

So long as Briere gives it his all I'm not going to boo or crucify him. If things turn sour it's Bergevin's fault first and foremost.

Sorinth is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2013, 12:19 PM
  #594
HiggsBozon
LOLZ, keep hating
 
HiggsBozon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,037
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
It doesn't matter how good his career was, it comes down to what can he bring for the next 2 years. I suspect that will be less than what Cole would've brought us. It could be a great motivation or it could be a sign that he's declining and then when the fans get on his back he'll have an even harder time bouncing back. At 4m it's not a risk I would want to take.

So long as Briere gives it his all I'm not going to boo or crucify him. If things turn sour it's Bergevin's fault first and foremost.
I slept with a Gauthier picture next to me last night...

HiggsBozon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2013, 12:25 PM
  #595
DJ Breadman
Registered User
 
DJ Breadman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Newfoundland
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,324
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs View Post
People are justifying the Briere signing based on his playoff performances... what about the 82 game schedule he has to earn his money? Isn't he supposed to help get us to the post season? I personally don't think the Habs will make the playoffs next season, I think it's more of a matter of what other teams have done, plus having Detroit in the East.

This is why I really don't like the signing... Briere doesn't really bring what we need. I could see him being a good fit if we had a strong team moving forward, but not an already small team in rebuilding mode.
not all guys earn their money in the regular season, some do in the playoffs, like MB said some players get your too the playoffs and some get you through the playoffs, this is actually a great line because it's true

DJ Breadman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2013, 12:25 PM
  #596
FlyingKostitsyn
Registered User
 
FlyingKostitsyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Quebec
Country: Australia
Posts: 8,018
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorinth
It doesn't matter how good his career was, it comes down to what can he bring for the next 2 years. I suspect that will be less than what Cole would've brought us. It could be a great motivation or it could be a sign that he's declining and then when the fans get on his back he'll have an even harder time bouncing back. At 4m it's not a risk I would want to take.

So long as Briere gives it his all I'm not going to boo or crucify him. If things turn sour it's Bergevin's fault first and foremost.
Cole imho looked like he didn't really care anymore, his stats show that. Briere's down year appear to have been injury related entirely. I think Daniel is more likely to have a bounce back year, its probably the opinion of the Habs as well if they signed him. Time will tell if they were right.

Still even if Cole is slightly superior in the next years it turns out to be a good trade still. We got a 3rd rounder along with a player that helped us far more last year than Cole would have. Considering the ridiculous overpayements going on there are few players that would have been better than Briere at the same terms. Lecavalier perhaps, but the ''external factors'' preventing him from joining us are not Bergy's fault (probably that he's a big ****** that doesn't care about the Habs first and foremost. I'd be up for booing Lecavalier whenever he touches a puck at the BC, he's long overdue for that).

I think I'd rather have Ryder for the next two years at 3.5 like he signed for than Cole, or perhaps even Briere, in fact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HiggsBozon
I slept with a Gauthier picture next to me last night...
Did it scare evil spirits away?

FlyingKostitsyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2013, 12:28 PM
  #597
le_sean
Registered User
 
le_sean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Ottawa
Country: Vatican City State
Posts: 15,071
vCash: 500
It's almost worth paying $4 million not to see him do his damn fist pump after scoring on the Habs. That always irked me. Just like Prospal and acting like he scored the Cup winning goal after every time he netted one.

le_sean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2013, 12:29 PM
  #598
hersky77
Registered User
 
hersky77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,000
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosso Scuderia View Post
Going from a big team to a small team like us, let's see Briere can be as effective.
Hes probably going to be slotted on line with Gally and Eller so they will be able to make space for him. If Therrien has any brains this is what he should do.

hersky77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2013, 12:30 PM
  #599
Habiton
Registered User
 
Habiton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 906
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
It doesn't matter how good his career was, it comes down to what can he bring for the next 2 years. I suspect that will be less than what Cole would've brought us. It could be a great motivation or it could be a sign that he's declining and then when the fans get on his back he'll have an even harder time bouncing back. At 4m it's not a risk I would want to take.

So long as Briere gives it his all I'm not going to boo or crucify him. If things turn sour it's Bergevin's fault first and foremost.
Where did all of the Cole love come from?

Brieres style of play will successfully bring him much much further age wise in the NHL. Cole is done, his body can't handle the physical style that he plays. In fact his game is based around the two things that fade the most, speed and physical play.

Briere has a deadly shot, a nose for the net and although he is fast he will still quite easily be a 20 goal scorer when he is 39. Cole on the other hand will be retired for 4-5 years.

Briere + 3rd >> Cole.

Just because Cole is big doesn't make him good, I'm sick of this argument.

Habiton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-06-2013, 12:34 PM
  #600
HiggsBozon
LOLZ, keep hating
 
HiggsBozon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,037
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
Did it scare evil spirits away?
No, but I woke up with an aversion for cheese.

HiggsBozon is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:28 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.