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Old
07-06-2013, 06:02 PM
  #151
Traded13
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Gauthier part deux... this is terrible, and I don't care if people dislike my negativity towards this team. I've been a fan for more than 30 years and I can't stomach the mediocre crap they throw at us anymore.

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07-06-2013, 06:14 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Habs13 View Post
Gauthier part deux... this is terrible, and I don't care if people dislike my negativity towards this team. I've been a fan for more than 30 years and I can't stomach the mediocre crap they throw at us anymore.
You are overreacting.

We have about 10 players who are capable of reaching 20 goals. We only need about 5 or 6 of them to get it to have a really good offense. This offense is built on depth. The key will be to make the appropriate trades when some of the players will be performing to a high standard, among whom there are some we may want to deal away with. And with the depth we have, I have no doubt this will happen, and am pretty sure Bergevin is banking on that.

Take Diaz's situation. His worth on the market was very high after the beginning of the season, but right now with the time he spent on IR, there's the question mark to know if his early season performance was a fluke. If his stats are as good in the first half of the season as they were at the beginning of last season, he will become very valuable on the market.

DD is in the same state of flux. A good performance at the beginning of the season might mean a ticket out of here.

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07-06-2013, 06:18 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
You are overreacting.

We have about 10 players who are capable of reaching 20 goals. We only need about 5 or 6 of them to get it to have a really good offense. This offense is built on depth. The key will be to make the appropriate trades when some of the players will be performing to a high standard, among whom there are some we may want to deal away with. And with the depth we have, I have no doubt this will happen, and am pretty sure Bergevin is banking on that.

Take Diaz's situation. His worth on the market was very high after the beginning of the season, but right now with the time he spent on IR, there's the question mark to know if his early season performance was a fluke. If his stats are as good in the first half of the season as they were at the beginning of last season, he will become very valuable on the market.

DD is in the same state of flux. A good performance at the beginning of the season might mean a ticket out of here.
This is not worthy of this lofty board. Calm and rational discussion is forbidden. Did you not know this?

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07-06-2013, 07:03 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
What is foolish is expecting a rookie GM to reinvent the game, to completely change free agent's outlook of Montreal in just little over a season.

When Bergevin was signed, I wasn't stoked. I wasn't displeased either.

Like any mature person would do, I decided to wait and see what he could do in the span of at least 3 to 5 seasons. Despite not liking the fact that he seems really good at putting the media on his side, and pandering to them somewhat, I still wanted to wait and see. Still doing that right now.

The way many fans are reacting right now is more a sign of who they are as a person, rather than any indication to Bergevin's overall aptitudes as a GM.
Habs have had a size and grit problem for generations. Last year they got bashed in the head two times by the Bruins and Leafs. MB did not try to fix this problem at all. Even before the playoffs. He went in and got us bland Drewinsy instead. What happens, we got bashed in the head in a game against the Sens. Again.

And then he hires Briere for our top 6. To fix the grit problem? He hires BGL take 2. This sounds a lot like Bob Gainey. At the draft, the Q got completely overlooked, he only got Fucale. Exactly like the Gainey/Goat regime. We could have gotten Clowe who would have been interested to come in Montreal but he offered him only two years. He would have fixed our problem on the first two lines.

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07-06-2013, 07:08 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
Habs have had a size and grit problem for generations. Last year they got bashed in the head two times by the Bruins and Leafs. MB did not try to fix this problem at all. Even before the playoffs. He went in and got us bland Drewinsy instead. What happens, we got bashed in the head in a game against the Sens. Again.

And then he hires Briere for our top 6. To fix the grit problem? He hires BGL take 2. This sounds a lot like Bob Gainey. At the draft, the Q got completely overlooked, he only got Fucale. Exactly like the Gainey/Goat regime. We could have gotten Clowe who would have been interested to come in Montreal but he offered him only two years. He would have fixed our problem on the first two lines.
Didn't we draft 4 players from the Q?

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07-06-2013, 07:08 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
Habs have had a size and grit problem for generations. Last year they got bashed in the head two times by the Bruins and Leafs. MB did not try to fix this problem at all. Even before the playoffs. He went in and got us bland Drewinsy instead. What happens, we got bashed in the head in a game against the Sens. Again.

And then he hires Briere for our top 6. To fix the grit problem? He hires BGL take 2. This sounds a lot like Bob Gainey. At the draft, the Q got completely overlooked, he only got Fucale. Exactly like the Gainey/Goat regime. We could have gotten Clowe who would have been interested to come in Montreal but he offered him only two years. He would have fixed our problem on the first two lines.
Ryan Clowe?

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07-06-2013, 07:10 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
Would you have paid Gallagher, Collberg and a 1st.

I certainly wouldn't have. Bobby Ryan is easily one of the most overrated players in the league......no thanks.
I would have done it. Cause if you do this trade and then add Clowe it completly change the team's make-up.

Max Pac - Eller - Ryan

Bourque - Plekanec - Clowe

Prust - Galchenyuk - Gionta

Dumont - Konopka - White(trading Moen for Konopka)

Habs becomes a much bigger team physically. And Ryan would become the most talented NHL-ready guy on our roster.

(and personaly I would have bought DD out instead of Kaberle)

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07-06-2013, 07:12 PM
  #158
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Love that there is a thread about this. It's been bugging me how negative people have been. The way things have been sounding around here you would think the Habs traded Price for a 4th or something

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07-06-2013, 07:16 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by deandebean View Post
Ryan Clowe?
Why do you ask that question?

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07-06-2013, 07:30 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
I would have done it. Cause if you do this trade and then add Clowe it completly change the team's make-up.

Max Pac - Eller - Ryan

Bourque - Plekanec - Clowe

Prust - Galchenyuk - Gionta

Dumont - Konopka - White(trading Moen for Konopka)

Habs becomes a much bigger team physically. And Ryan would become the most talented NHL-ready guy on our roster.

(and personaly I would have bought DD out instead of Kaberle)
So basicaly you don't like the team right now and you want a different team. You know there is 29 other teams and 1 one of those have what you are searching for. I don't see a Gm being able to manage a team like that. If Bergevin would have bought Desharnais's contract, it would be like asking Molson to fire him.

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07-06-2013, 07:31 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
Why do you ask that question?
Because there are much better candidates than him. He has lost a step (or two) and wasn't a force to say the least with the Rags.

Lou paid way too much to fill the void left by Clarkson.

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07-06-2013, 07:33 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by deandebean View Post
Because there are much better candidates than him. He has lost a step (or two) and wasn't a force to say the least with the Rags.

Lou paid way too much to fill the void left by Clarkson.
I think the worst thing about Clowe was left out of your post. His concussion issues are very, very scary.

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07-06-2013, 07:34 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
the d can't be rebuilt in one offseason, but i hope we do add some pieces. The book is still out on price in the playoffs, so we need to insulate him with better dmen for the time being.

Diaz, bouillion, gorges, markov....talk about easy to play against.
exactly my four who stink

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07-06-2013, 07:34 PM
  #164
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Love that there is a thread about this. It's been bugging me how negative people have been. The way things have been sounding around here you would think the Habs traded Price for a 4th or something
So when the GM publically says that his plan has two core components

1) develop through the draft and not pursue rental free agent players
2) make the team bigger and tougher to play against.

Then, he goes out and signs Danny Briere and you expect the fans to overlook it, say "good job" and ignore the fact that this signing is antithetical to those two publically stated goals?

I think that the habs fan base can adopt a long term plan, its not reasonable to think we will contend every year. But the gm can't piss on us and then try to convince us its raining. This ( along with the signing of parros) look like desaration moves, we can't land Vinny so get has been Briefs and then we can't get anyone to play and help our undersized forwards so find some el cheepo goon that we could have gotten ( or someone similar) for a late round pick if we wanted, but we didn't so package guys that would never make the big club simply so he could say something when the press expectedly asked about the lack of grit.

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07-06-2013, 07:35 PM
  #165
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Anybody here could have extended DD for 4 years at 3.5 and sign Briere for 4m$. Bergevin haven't impressed me since he is here. He seemed like a good "hockey" person, but still, we are facing a Gainey no.2. That passive, conservative approach situation here. An ex-nhl player who doesn't seems to be competant at managing and improving an hockey team by adressing NEEDS.

UFA excuse are pathethic. This isn't the only way to go. Still, the money given to Desharnais 3.5m$ and Briere 4m$ could have been use to attract ANY player avaible on the market this year a la Clowe, Clarkson, Scuderi, Lecavalier, Horton,etc who would of adressed bigger needs than shtrumph Briere.

LA Kings have built a good part of their team via trade. We have the assets to do the same. A young, skilled power foward in Bobby Ryan was avaible, yes , it would have costed much, 'cause QUALITY player don't get aquired easily. If you want quality, you gotta pay, if you want bargain, you're getting AVERAGE product. Is that what you want?

Why couldn't Bergevin use one of his picks/prospect before the playoff last year to get a solid top 4 d-man and a physical top 9 foward a la Clowe? Isn't his job trying to improve the team? Before the Emelin injury, Habs were doing good. What if a little bit more quality depth would have pushed MTL deeper into the playoffs? Drewiski is a solid exemple of Bargain= average/below average result.

Enough with the passive approach. We aren't the only team with some good prospect. ALL 30 teams have interesting prospect coming up. Sitting on our ass waiting for them to turn into quality NHL ain't gonna solve all our problem. People were saying the same thing when our future looked so bright with the likes of Higgins, Kostitsyn, Latendresse, Komisarek, Daggostini, Pacioretty, Chipchura, Lapierre, Maxwell, Valentenko, etc.

We have a solid core. 1-2 trade and some smart UFA signing who adresses need could have turned us into a solid contender team. The moves made by Bergevin till now only made us worst. You might be one of those who thinks that switching Ryder and Armstrong by Parros and Briere is going to turn us into a Stanley Cup winner, I'm not, and it's my right.

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07-06-2013, 07:45 PM
  #166
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Yeah calling people who have different opinion than you dumb is such an amazing coup de force.

Since you seem to be self- referentially authorative, please oh please explain to me what a marshmallow soft midget, at the tail end of his career who is abysmal defensively brings to a team that were 4th in the league in scoring, played terrible defense the last two weeks ( and fell ass backward into 2nd place) and then got manhandled by that physical juggernaut that is the gd Ottawa senators.

Don't tell me playoff clutchness ( he is at best a wash ), don't tell me leadership ( he's getting shown the doors immediately at the end of his contract), what does he bring that makes the team better?
Do you think we will be better next year than last if we don't make any more moves? If so by what metrics?

My guess is that all the people defending this signing will be the first to offer excuses if it goes south. I'm willing to admit it if it goes better, is like to eat crow on it but I just don't see it.
agreed we are in tough to make the playoffs

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07-06-2013, 07:47 PM
  #167
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People who think briere signing was bad need to delete there HF accounts especially related to the habs forum.


WE ARE NOT A CUP CONTENDING TEAM RIGHT NOW. WE DO NOT STAND A CHANCE AGAINST A PLAYOFF CHI, BOS, LA, PHI



Does anyone know the value a playoff veteran power play specialists go for at the deadline ?


Briere isnt here to win a cup, hes here for us to hype his talents so we can sell him for more team equity.

Plus hes great drama for laPress


You people are delusional if you think the habs can win a stanley cup within the next 2-3 hell even 4 years.

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07-06-2013, 07:48 PM
  #168
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Originally Posted by Driven View Post
Anybody here could have extended DD for 4 years at 3.5 and sign Briere for 4m$. Bergevin haven't impressed me since he is here. He seemed like a good "hockey" person, but still, we are facing a Gainey no.2. That passive, conservative approach situation here. An ex-nhl player who doesn't seems to be competant at managing and improving an hockey team by adressing NEEDS.

UFA excuse are pathethic. This isn't the only way to go. Still, the money given to Desharnais 3.5m$ and Briere 4m$ could have been use to attract ANY player avaible on the market this year a la Clowe, Clarkson, Scuderi, Lecavalier, Horton,etc who would of adressed bigger needs than shtrumph Briere.

LA Kings have built a good part of their team via trade. We have the assets to do the same. A young, skilled power foward in Bobby Ryan was avaible, yes , it would have costed much, 'cause QUALITY player don't get aquired easily. If you want quality, you gotta pay, if you want bargain, you're getting AVERAGE product. Is that what you want?

Why couldn't Bergevin use one of his picks/prospect before the playoff last year to get a solid top 4 d-man and a physical top 9 foward a la Clowe? Isn't his job trying to improve the team? Before the Emelin injury, Habs were doing good. What if a little bit more quality depth would have pushed MTL deeper into the playoffs? Drewiski is a solid exemple of Bargain= average/below average result.

Enough with the passive approach. We aren't the only team with some good prospect. ALL 30 teams have interesting prospect coming up. Sitting on our ass waiting for them to turn into quality NHL ain't gonna solve all our problem. People were saying the same thing when our future looked so bright with the likes of Higgins, Kostitsyn, Latendresse, Komisarek, Daggostini, Pacioretty, Chipchura, Lapierre, Maxwell, Valentenko, etc.

We have a solid core. 1-2 trade and some smart UFA signing who adresses need could have turned us into a solid contender team. The moves made by Bergevin till now only made us worst. You might be one of those who thinks that switching Ryder and Armstrong by Parros and Briere is going to turn us into a Stanley Cup winner, I'm not, and it's my right.
The fact you need to state this myth, as probably NOBODY here thinks your bolded line, and that you needed to bold such a thing, shows that you are trying to auto-validate yourself by creating a false narrative.

All I heard in your post is a lot of this and that and this and that and this and that and this and that

but mostly a lot of this

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07-06-2013, 07:50 PM
  #169
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exactly my four who stink
You sound hysterical. Diaz was having a breakout season until his concussion. Soupy is a solid and very tough 6/7 guy. Gorges had an off year for him but is a good leader, is great on the PK and has probably blocked more shots in the last 3 years than anyone else who's not a goalie. And Markov is probably still the best PPQB in the league.

To say these players stink is ridiculous.

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07-06-2013, 07:52 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by Driven View Post
Anybody here could have extended DD for 4 years at 3.5 and sign Briere for 4m$. Bergevin haven't impressed me since he is here. He seemed like a good "hockey" person, but still, we are facing a Gainey no.2. That passive, conservative approach situation here. An ex-nhl player who doesn't seems to be competant at managing and improving an hockey team by adressing NEEDS.

UFA excuse are pathethic. This isn't the only way to go. Still, the money given to Desharnais 3.5m$ and Briere 4m$ could have been use to attract ANY player avaible on the market this year a la Clowe, Clarkson, Scuderi, Lecavalier, Horton,etc who would of adressed bigger needs than shtrumph Briere.

LA Kings have built a good part of their team via trade. We have the assets to do the same. A young, skilled power foward in Bobby Ryan was avaible, yes , it would have costed much, 'cause QUALITY player don't get aquired easily. If you want quality, you gotta pay, if you want bargain, you're getting AVERAGE product. Is that what you want?

Why couldn't Bergevin use one of his picks/prospect before the playoff last year to get a solid top 4 d-man and a physical top 9 foward a la Clowe? Isn't his job trying to improve the team? Before the Emelin injury, Habs were doing good. What if a little bit more quality depth would have pushed MTL deeper into the playoffs? Drewiski is a solid exemple of Bargain= average/below average result.

Enough with the passive approach. We aren't the only team with some good prospect. ALL 30 teams have interesting prospect coming up. Sitting on our ass waiting for them to turn into quality NHL ain't gonna solve all our problem. People were saying the same thing when our future looked so bright with the likes of Higgins, Kostitsyn, Latendresse, Komisarek, Daggostini, Pacioretty, Chipchura, Lapierre, Maxwell, Valentenko, etc.

We have a solid core. 1-2 trade and some smart UFA signing who adresses need could have turned us into a solid contender team. The moves made by Bergevin till now only made us worst. You might be one of those who thinks that switching Ryder and Armstrong by Parros and Briere is going to turn us into a Stanley Cup winner, I'm not, and it's my right.
you make some valid points but.......

overpaying like a drunk on Clowe or Clarkson isnt the answer cause we are not a player away

secondly Ryan would of cost us Eller, Collberg and a first , u make this deal ??????

thirdly we fked up by resigning DD , Briere, and potentially keeping Diaz and Markov and keeping the other midget Cube for another year
not saying to dump them all right now but it starts with DIAZ and a bigger repalcement for Cube in FA or playing Pateryn could not of been worse

we keep fiixng issues with the same problem issues

stop thinking with your heart and use you head

Gorges , Diaz, Markov and Cube are brutal ES , we will never improve until we fix the backend , way bigger issue than size

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07-06-2013, 07:58 PM
  #171
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
The fact you need to state this myth, as probably NOBODY here thinks your bolded line, and that you needed to bold such a thing, shows that you are trying to auto-validate yourself by creating a false narrative.

All I heard in your post is a lot of this and that and this and that and this and that and this and that

but mostly a lot of this
Just out of curiousity, for how long have you been following the Habs? You seems totally content with mediocrity. Like a majority around here, I want this team to win. I'm getting sick tuning the TV on/ paying for tickets to watch the same average/microwaved product every year. I simply can't understand the move Bergevin made and don't see how it improves this team. Other smarter moves could have been made.

No, I don't see hockey dirigeant as God who are highly superior human beings than us. Simply charismatic ex-nhl player/people with good hockey contact who might possess above average intellectual and motivation level than others. I don't see what's wrong with critizing this unsuccessful direction that this team is STILL taking who haven't worked for 20 years.

Bergevin haven't adressed our needs. He signed a washed up shtrumph just to add to our collection of unidimensional player. Another centre who Therrien will have to protect/ will take the place of our hungrier youngster will he could have use this money eslewhere. But hey, disapproving this move is wrong! Habs can't do no harm! I remember when Gainey was treated as god and had an army of white knight protecting him against the "bad" fans

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07-06-2013, 08:01 PM
  #172
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People who think briere signing was bad need to delete there HF accounts especially related to the habs forum.


WE ARE NOT A CUP CONTENDING TEAM RIGHT NOW. WE DO NOT STAND A CHANCE AGAINST A PLAYOFF CHI, BOS, LA, PHI.
I agree completely, but that does not mean we should intentionally get worse in the short term and impede the development of the players we will need to count on should we be in a position to contend.

I just had an epiphany, perhaps the people trumpeting briere are hoping for a Trojan horse surgical tank. Draft players who meet none of the teams current needs, but who will additionally impeded the development of our young players out of the pipeline ( I.e tell Gallagher he's going to play with Gally and briere so he spends 90% of his time looking over his shoulder) so that we tank to get a higher draft position without looking like we are tanking.

Its genius I tell you Jerry, Genius!

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07-06-2013, 08:04 PM
  #173
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Originally Posted by onemorecup View Post
you make some valid points but.......

overpaying like a drunk on Clowe or Clarkson isnt the answer cause we are not a player away

secondly Ryan would of cost us Eller, Collberg and a first , u make this deal ??????

thirdly we fked up by resigning DD , Briere, and potentially keeping Diaz and Markov and keeping the other midget Cube for another year
not saying to dump them all right now but it starts with DIAZ and a bigger repalcement for Cube in FA or playing Pateryn could not of been worse

we keep fiixng issues with the same problem issues

stop thinking with your heart and use you head

Gorges , Diaz, Markov and Cube are brutal ES , we will never improve until we fix the backend , way bigger issue than size
Don't know what you're trying to say? In ALL my post, I'm talking about our NEED for a solid top 4 d-man.. The lost of Emelin cleary exposed our lack of quality depth at the blue line.

Would I have paid collberg+1 first and another assest a la beaulieu, eller, kristo, etc? I would have STRONGLY consider it, at the very least. We have en overflow who smalish skilled prospect , we could have paid that price to go after a 25-26 years old 30 goals scorer, proven power foward. We could have traded our first this year, we picked 3 guys in the top 36 into a supposedly really deep draft this year. Sometimes you gotta do ballsy moves to improve your team, like the Kings did to get Richards/Carter. Schenn and Simmonds were solid prospect.

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07-06-2013, 08:06 PM
  #174
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
I would have done it. Cause if you do this trade and then add Clowe it completly change the team's make-up.

Max Pac - Eller - Ryan

Bourque - Plekanec - Clowe

Prust - Galchenyuk - Gionta

Dumont - Konopka - White(trading Moen for Konopka)

Habs becomes a much bigger team physically. And Ryan would become the most talented NHL-ready guy on our roster.

(and personaly I would have bought DD out instead of Kaberle)
Honestly thank the hockey gods our GM is not you. I would never do that deal, he would only play 2 years for us then walk and who knows at what production. That and when a player of Ryan's ilk becomes available to any team that'll listen there's a reason for that.

There's also a reason MB was nominated as GM of the year in his first year and a reason that this board criticizes what he had for breakfast this morning. Quite frankly it's exhausting reading all the whining here and I often question why it is I read such a large percentage of it.

I can sympathize with MB. His GM position is like juggling 100's of whiny girlfriends who could never be pleased no matter what actions you took to fix your shortcomings. There is no doubt in my mind why no player ever wants to sign in Montreal, the highest taxes in the league and a spoiled fanbase that will ***** at you until you turn into the perfect hockey player. I wouldn't sign here either.

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07-06-2013, 08:07 PM
  #175
Ozymandias
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Driven View Post
Just out of curiousity, for how long have you been following the Habs? You seems totally content with mediocrity. Like a majority around here, I want this team to win. I'm getting sick tuning the TV on/ paying for tickets to watch the same average/microwaved product every year. I simply can't understand the move Bergevin made and don't see how it improves this team. Other smarter moves could have been made.

No, I don't see hockey dirigeant as God who are highly superior human beings than us. Simply charismatic ex-nhl player/people with good hockey contact who might possess above average intellectual and motivation level than others. I don't see what's wrong with critizing this unsuccessful direction that this team is STILL taking who haven't worked for 20 years.

Bergevin haven't adressed our needs. He signed a washed up shtrumph just to add to our collection of unidimensional player. Another centre who Therrien will have to protect/ will take the place of our hungrier youngster will he could have use this money eslewhere. But hey, disapproving this move is wrong! Habs can't do no harm! I remember when Gainey was treated as god and had an army of white knight protecting him against the "bad" fans
Since my childhood and I'm in the mid-30s.

The way you're projecting a counter-extreme (as if anyone is content with 'mediocrity') unto to me to validate your own extremism doesn't in turn validate any of your grievances. I could expound on the merits, or rather lack thereof, of complaining of not addressing needs in a saturated market with overpriced commodities, in line with MB's proclamation of bidding on the draft and development of players, but i fear it would be a waste of time.

Not to mention the fact MB is a rookie GM with only one shortened season under his watch and the off-season is far from over.

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