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Old
07-06-2013, 07:08 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Markstrom Rules View Post
We also need to sign another d-man. Our bottom pairing is potential crap right now.
Yes, and injuries to d-men are inevitable... especially Jovo.

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Old
07-06-2013, 08:02 PM
  #52
adam graves
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Originally Posted by Beezer View Post
Didn't like this at all:



I don't have an issue with not wanting to overspend but you need to be able to ice a competitive team if you want to continue to keep and grow your fanbase. If Tallon has his hands tied how does that give us a competitive team if we can't even sign our own FA?



The last phrase in that article gives me some comfort but not much. Because IMO we need at least 2 of the 3 below to probably field a competitive team this season but probably all three.

1-sign a top 6 centerman(hopefully Grabovski but I'm not holding my breath)
2-sign or resign a top 6 winger(Meuller?)
3-sign a backup veteran goalie and get rid of Clemm
This is all the "dont flame the blueprint" group is asking as evidence that CV hasnt ordered DT to "abandon ship.

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Old
07-06-2013, 10:25 PM
  #53
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Wining the division was a blessing and a curse. It gave us fans a premature taste of success that management was not expecting. I'm tired of one step forward and two steps back. I don't care about David clarkson I care about trading for a guy like Tyler seguin or a guy like bobby Ryan. Where is our Lebron James? The one offseason we actually went out and spent money we won a division. I don't care if we overpay or underpay when u have a guy named Shawn mathias centering a top line in arguably the toughest division in the entire league, any finish higher than 28th would be a complete shock.

For the optimists promising 2 years and then spending on high end talent frenzy I would not hold my breath.
dude, the sooner you realize that this is simply not us, that it's not happening any time soon, the better...

I know it sucks, it's sad, frustrating, but it's reality.

when's the last time we got a star , not even superstar, just a star player or big name player since Bure??

there are several reasons, but I think that the "non-traditional" hockey market just plays a huge role on this whether we like it or not..big name and star players want to play in big name clubs and good hockey markets, we're viewed as a joke within the league...so unless it's a blockbuster trade, why would a Lebron James free agent want to sign with us instead of Pittsburgh, or Boston?

At least Dallas, Tampa, Carolina , Anaheim etc.. have won cups in the last 15 years..and haven't missed the playoffs for 12 straight freggin years...you think making the play offs after 12 years we're going to change perceptions around the league?? at least Toronto is an original 6, they can afford to suck..when you're a perennial losers and a non-traditional hockey market it's just terribad ...

the only way we're going to have our Lebron James is being the Cleveland Cavaliers, that is, through the draft, because we ain't obtaining him a-la Miami Heat...that's what we're doing and what we're hoping with Huberdeau/Barkov/Bjugstad/Markstrom etc...

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07-06-2013, 11:16 PM
  #54
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I really don't know what people are complaining about. If there are no reasonable free agent deals available, or free agents are not willing to come here, what do you expect Tallon to do? Show me a signing yesterday that you think we should have and could have done. Out of the major deals I saw yesterday, I wouldn't have been interested in any of them.

Acquiring players through trades is also difficult. We do have some decent second tier prospects to trade, but that doesn't bring you star talent. You have to give to get, and right now in rebuilding mode, we are stockpiling our prospects, I don't see a problem with that.

I want us to have an established centerman, another one or two NHL-ready defensemen, and a good backup goalie. I'm sure Tallon would love to have these things too, but there need to be reasonable deals available.

We are never going to be a team that spends near the cap with this ownership group. Never. If you are sticking with this team, be realistic about this. I really don't know how anyone can act surprised by this or feel ripped off.

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07-07-2013, 03:24 AM
  #55
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the three free agent deals i'm disappointed we didn't take advantage on:

Anton Khubodin to Carolina for 800k
Michael Ryder to NJD for 3.5 mil
Derek Roy to STL for 4mil

If we added those 3 guys and could find a decent defensman, i'd be pretty stoked for this coming season, and all 3 are signed to extremely reasonable deals. Ryder only signed for 2 years. Roy only signed for 1. We could have given Ryder 4mil for 2 years and Roy 4 mil for 2 years (upping what their current teams did) and they'd still be very reasonable deals.

I think what makes everyone uncomfortable is not that we're not signing anyone. It's that we're clearly not even trying. If Viner simply can't afford to pay his checks, then why own the team? Find someone who will. This isn't the Coyotes situation and you had 5+ owners interested in investing in that mess. You'd have no problem finding one here. Tampa Bay got Vinik who is a billionare. Dallas got Galgardi who is the same. The NHL has been improving as a business every year and there's no shortage of billionares looking to get into it.

What's going to be telling to me is come October. If our payroll is at $57 mil like it was last year, i'll be fine. I don't expect Viner to spend to the cap. But if he lowers our budget to $50mil just because the cap dropped, then **** him. He afforded the $57mil price tag last year just fine. Revenue sharing has improved since the last CBA as well. No excuses to not have the payroll be what it was last year. The writing on the wall, though, seems like it won't be. If we can't even afford to re-sign PETER FRIGGEN MUELLER and his 8 goals last year, WTF?

If Tallon has the go-ahead to spend to $57 million and just isn't because...well, he blew the money on crap, then that's his fault. Remember, we have a bunch of money going into just flat out garbage. Jovo is making $4.5 mil. Clemmensen $1.2 mil. We're going to pay Kuba $2.8 mil to play for someone else. We're still paying Matt Bradley. That's basically $10 million we're wasting. Cap teams can't afford to do that, let alone us. If that's the reason we can't afford anyone...well, then it's a combination of our ownership and Tallon spending the money unwisely.

I'll wait till opening night to judge. Lets see what the final number is at. and not the cap number...the actual salaries being paid.

Give Grabovski 1-2 years at 4 mil like Roy (Roy probably had more value on the market)

Sign a d-man for 1 year (Lydman/Zidlicky) for $2.5 mil

Sign Thomas or Bryzgalov for 1 year at $3 mil

Find someone to take Clemmer. Pay them with a pick if you have to (shouldn't have to, a team like Boston should take him).

Huberdeau-Grabovski-Versteeg
Fleishmann-Barkov-Kopecky
Bergenheim-Goc-Matthias*
Upshall-Shore?- Crabb

Campbell-Kulikov
Lydman/Zidlicky-Weaver
Gudbranson- Jovo/Robak

Bryz/Thomas
Markstrom (50-50 split in games)

*yes, i realize Matthias played better as a center, but his game is suited as a winger, and so are his long term prospects as a panther with Jugs, Shore, etc. in the pipeline. He needs to adapt to being a winger...it's a much easier position to play than center is.



That's not an overwhelming team. But it's a solid team. A team I think could compete. A team worthy of getting excited about. They may not make the playoffs, but they'd be in the race at least. That's all I think anyone is asking for.

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07-07-2013, 07:07 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flapanthersfan View Post

I think what makes everyone uncomfortable is not that we're not signing anyone. It's that we're clearly not even trying. If Viner simply can't afford to pay his checks, then why own the team? Find someone who will. This isn't the Coyotes situation and you had 5+ owners interested in investing in that mess. You'd have no problem finding one here. Tampa Bay got Vinik who is a billionare. Dallas got Galgardi who is the same. The NHL has been improving as a business every year and there's no shortage of billionares looking to get into it.
Coyotes, no potential owner is investing his own money (small chunk of own money), current owner prospect is getting loan (loan cost paid by city of Glendale) and other loan (interest free) from NHL to operate team.

What happened to Stu Siegel, why he sold his Panther shares?

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07-07-2013, 08:33 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flapanthersfan View Post
the three free agent deals i'm disappointed we didn't take advantage on:

Anton Khubodin to Carolina for 800k
Michael Ryder to NJD for 3.5 mil
Derek Roy to STL for 4mil

If we added those 3 guys and could find a decent defensman, i'd be pretty stoked for this coming season, and all 3 are signed to extremely reasonable deals. Ryder only signed for 2 years. Roy only signed for 1. We could have given Ryder 4mil for 2 years and Roy 4 mil for 2 years (upping what their current teams did) and they'd still be very reasonable deals.

I think what makes everyone uncomfortable is not that we're not signing anyone. It's that we're clearly not even trying. If Viner simply can't afford to pay his checks, then why own the team? Find someone who will. This isn't the Coyotes situation and you had 5+ owners interested in investing in that mess. You'd have no problem finding one here. Tampa Bay got Vinik who is a billionare. Dallas got Galgardi who is the same. The NHL has been improving as a business every year and there's no shortage of billionares looking to get into it.

What's going to be telling to me is come October. If our payroll is at $57 mil like it was last year, i'll be fine. I don't expect Viner to spend to the cap. But if he lowers our budget to $50mil just because the cap dropped, then **** him. He afforded the $57mil price tag last year just fine. Revenue sharing has improved since the last CBA as well. No excuses to not have the payroll be what it was last year. The writing on the wall, though, seems like it won't be. If we can't even afford to re-sign PETER FRIGGEN MUELLER and his 8 goals last year, WTF?

If Tallon has the go-ahead to spend to $57 million and just isn't because...well, he blew the money on crap, then that's his fault. Remember, we have a bunch of money going into just flat out garbage. Jovo is making $4.5 mil. Clemmensen $1.2 mil. We're going to pay Kuba $2.8 mil to play for someone else. We're still paying Matt Bradley. That's basically $10 million we're wasting. Cap teams can't afford to do that, let alone us. If that's the reason we can't afford anyone...well, then it's a combination of our ownership and Tallon spending the money unwisely.

I'll wait till opening night to judge. Lets see what the final number is at. and not the cap number...the actual salaries being paid.

Give Grabovski 1-2 years at 4 mil like Roy (Roy probably had more value on the market)

Sign a d-man for 1 year (Lydman/Zidlicky) for $2.5 mil

Sign Thomas or Bryzgalov for 1 year at $3 mil

Find someone to take Clemmer. Pay them with a pick if you have to (shouldn't have to, a team like Boston should take him).

Huberdeau-Grabovski-Versteeg
Fleishmann-Barkov-Kopecky
Bergenheim-Goc-Matthias*
Upshall-Shore?- Crabb

Campbell-Kulikov
Lydman/Zidlicky-Weaver
Gudbranson- Jovo/Robak

Bryz/Thomas
Markstrom (50-50 split in games)

*yes, i realize Matthias played better as a center, but his game is suited as a winger, and so are his long term prospects as a panther with Jugs, Shore, etc. in the pipeline. He needs to adapt to being a winger...it's a much easier position to play than center is.



That's not an overwhelming team. But it's a solid team. A team I think could compete. A team worthy of getting excited about. They may not make the playoffs, but they'd be in the race at least. That's all I think anyone is asking for.
this, don't even know why we didn't go for the guy, I said it all throughout the year that I wish we would go for him..but of course we didn't...amazing deal for Carolina, I have a feeling of course we're going to be shut out every time we play them and he's going to have a breakout year

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07-07-2013, 09:14 AM
  #58
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I really, really dislike the idea of Kopecky being in the top-six.

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07-07-2013, 09:30 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pantherbot View Post
I really don't know what people are complaining about. If there are no reasonable free agent deals available, or free agents are not willing to come here, what do you expect Tallon to do? Show me a signing yesterday that you think we should have and could have done. Out of the major deals I saw yesterday, I wouldn't have been interested in any of them.

Acquiring players through trades is also difficult. We do have some decent second tier prospects to trade, but that doesn't bring you star talent. You have to give to get, and right now in rebuilding mode, we are stockpiling our prospects, I don't see a problem with that.

I want us to have an established centerman, another one or two NHL-ready defensemen, and a good backup goalie. I'm sure Tallon would love to have these things too, but there need to be reasonable deals available.

We are never going to be a team that spends near the cap with this ownership group. Never. If you are sticking with this team, be realistic about this. I really don't know how anyone can act surprised by this or feel ripped off.
Yes, we will not be a cap team for the foreseeable future. There's a difference between spending to the cap and spending enough to be a competitive team though.

If Tallon is allowed an additional $6 - 7M after signing Barkov to spend to plug holes, we'll probably be okay.

But will he? That's the concern. I knew the Panthers were going to "lose" in this UFA period (although I think we agree that they won by ridding the team of Kuba and Parros and not mortgaging the future).

I want them to win the aftermath when spare pieces become available. Can't do that unless you have the green light from the guys who write the checks.

The "we're going with the kids" comment throws up red flags as does all the evidence to suggest that Tallon is being hamstrung by ownership.

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07-07-2013, 03:03 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flapanthersfan View Post
the three free agent deals i'm disappointed we didn't take advantage on:

Anton Khubodin to Carolina for 800k
Michael Ryder to NJD for 3.5 mil
Derek Roy to STL for 4mil


If we added those 3 guys and could find a decent defensman, i'd be pretty stoked for this coming season, and all 3 are signed to extremely reasonable deals. Ryder only signed for 2 years. Roy only signed for 1. We could have given Ryder 4mil for 2 years and Roy 4 mil for 2 years (upping what their current teams did) and they'd still be very reasonable deals.

I think what makes everyone uncomfortable is not that we're not signing anyone. It's that we're clearly not even trying. If Viner simply can't afford to pay his checks, then why own the team? Find someone who will. This isn't the Coyotes situation and you had 5+ owners interested in investing in that mess. You'd have no problem finding one here. Tampa Bay got Vinik who is a billionare. Dallas got Galgardi who is the same. The NHL has been improving as a business every year and there's no shortage of billionares looking to get into it.

What's going to be telling to me is come October. If our payroll is at $57 mil like it was last year, i'll be fine. I don't expect Viner to spend to the cap. But if he lowers our budget to $50mil just because the cap dropped, then **** him. He afforded the $57mil price tag last year just fine. Revenue sharing has improved since the last CBA as well. No excuses to not have the payroll be what it was last year. The writing on the wall, though, seems like it won't be. If we can't even afford to re-sign PETER FRIGGEN MUELLER and his 8 goals last year, WTF?

If Tallon has the go-ahead to spend to $57 million and just isn't because...well, he blew the money on crap, then that's his fault. Remember, we have a bunch of money going into just flat out garbage. Jovo is making $4.5 mil. Clemmensen $1.2 mil. We're going to pay Kuba $2.8 mil to play for someone else. We're still paying Matt Bradley. That's basically $10 million we're wasting. Cap teams can't afford to do that, let alone us. If that's the reason we can't afford anyone...well, then it's a combination of our ownership and Tallon spending the money unwisely.

I'll wait till opening night to judge. Lets see what the final number is at. and not the cap number...the actual salaries being paid.

Give Grabovski 1-2 years at 4 mil like Roy (Roy probably had more value on the market)

Sign a d-man for 1 year (Lydman/Zidlicky) for $2.5 mil

Sign Thomas or Bryzgalov for 1 year at $3 mil

Find someone to take Clemmer. Pay them with a pick if you have to (shouldn't have to, a team like Boston should take him).

Huberdeau-Grabovski-Versteeg
Fleishmann-Barkov-Kopecky
Bergenheim-Goc-Matthias*
Upshall-Shore?- Crabb

Campbell-Kulikov
Lydman/Zidlicky-Weaver
Gudbranson- Jovo/Robak

Bryz/Thomas
Markstrom (50-50 split in games)

*yes, i realize Matthias played better as a center, but his game is suited as a winger, and so are his long term prospects as a panther with Jugs, Shore, etc. in the pipeline. He needs to adapt to being a winger...it's a much easier position to play than center is.



That's not an overwhelming team. But it's a solid team. A team I think could compete. A team worthy of getting excited about. They may not make the playoffs, but they'd be in the race at least. That's all I think anyone is asking for.
I actually agree on every single point, well written

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07-08-2013, 12:41 AM
  #61
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anyone know how much winchester signed for? i cant find it on cap geek.

and i agree i dont care for kopecky in the top-6, hes perfect on the 3rd line however. but its either him or upshall as it stands now, and thats with a healthy versteeg and hes gonna miss the beginning of the season. unless they try something like goc as the top center, and matthias on rw but i doubt theyd try that, and again thats not even counting the fact that versteeg is out for a little. i really hope we sign brunner.

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07-08-2013, 01:18 AM
  #62
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I'm not too worried about lack of money being spent right now. This team is in the same position the Islanders were a few years ago. They have a cheap owner as well but they've drafted rather nicely and their prospects are finally starting to blossom. I have a feeling the Panthers will be in the same position within 2 years. It may suck to have 2 more years of absolute crap (1 playoff season in 13 years) but the dark days of the 2000's will soon be behind us.

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07-08-2013, 02:21 AM
  #63
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anyone know how much winchester signed for? i cant find it on cap geek.

and i agree i dont care for kopecky in the top-6, hes perfect on the 3rd line however. but its either him or upshall as it stands now, and thats with a healthy versteeg and hes gonna miss the beginning of the season. unless they try something like goc as the top center, and matthias on rw but i doubt theyd try that, and again thats not even counting the fact that versteeg is out for a little. i really hope we sign brunner.
kopecky scored 15 goals in 47 games last year...that's a pace of 26 goals over 82 games.

the way kopecky scores may not be pretty but he gets the job done...ideally, on a cup contender, yeah he'd be on the third line. but we have much bigger problems than worrying about him in our top 6 IMO.

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07-10-2013, 09:48 PM
  #64
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According to Barry Jackson, Miami Herald, Panthers have to two possible reasons to keep payroll low:
"### One reason the Panthers are spending not much above the $44 million NHL salary cap floor is they’re losing $15 million to $20 million a year, according to two people with direct knowledge. Plus, they have faith in their young players"

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/sport...#storylink=cpy

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07-10-2013, 10:16 PM
  #65
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According to Barry Jackson, Miami Herald, Panthers have to two possible reasons to keep payroll low:
"### One reason the Panthers are spending not much above the $44 million NHL salary cap floor is they’re losing $15 million to $20 million a year, according to two people with direct knowledge. Plus, they have faith in their young players"

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/sport...#storylink=cpy

JOL
I hope no one in Canada sees that.

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07-11-2013, 12:57 AM
  #66
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I hope no one in Canada sees that.
It's pretty well known already.

The Florida Panthers lose $15-20 million a season.

Sunrise Sports & Entertainment does not lose $15-20 mil a season.

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07-11-2013, 07:34 AM
  #67
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It's pretty well known already.

The Florida Panthers lose $15-20 million a season.

Sunrise Sports & Entertainment does not lose $15-20 mil a season.
How much profit AOC (part of SSE) makes? if more than $12 million, then county should get their cut (> $12 million)? Does these figures include loans (EBITDA, earnings before interest payments, tax, depreciation, and amortization)?

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07-11-2013, 07:46 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by flapanthersfan View Post
It's pretty well known already.

The Florida Panthers lose $15-20 million a season.

Sunrise Sports & Entertainment does not lose $15-20 mil a season.
Yes, the revenues from concerts etc. more than offsets the losses from the Panthers. We know this because SSE has had to submit its financial statements to Broward county the past two years in order to get its financing approved for Club Red and the new Scoreboard.

Also, sports teams are able to obtain tax benefits, including accelerated depreciation. That is why "losses" need to be taken with a grain of salt as well.

My own belief, based on the financial statements given to Broward County, the cuts in payroll, the increase in ticket prices etc that the SSE should again make a profit in 2013 and beyond. It is also my belief that SSE continues to explore a gaming play while exploring sale options at the right price.

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07-11-2013, 06:42 PM
  #69
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Rory Boylen ‏@THNRoryBoylen 8h

"We're going to go young. Going to go with our young guys," says Florida GM Dale Tallon...It's the circle of life for Panthers fans.
Retweeted by The Hockey News

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