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Old
07-06-2013, 11:20 PM
  #101
Gigantor The Goalie
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My issue isn't giving up the 1st, Wilson, Pickard/Martin/Aitto and Sgar/McG or Barrie Elliott, it's giving all of that up for Phaneuf, who's not just an upcoming UFA, but is also not that good a fit next to EJ as EJ would have to continue playing as cleaner upper instead of finally getting a partner he can trust to clean up for him. If we were getting back Vlasic instead I'd be all for it because Vlasic is under control for quite a while and could finally give EJ a partner he can trust.
Exactly how I feel. No point in giving up assets for Phaneuf. At least not that many assets.

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07-06-2013, 11:32 PM
  #102
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The cost of being wrong is less severe with your younger guys no? Understand too, that not all of your younger prospects need to materialize. And if you're the Avs, it's even better. They must not be a great defense. They simply need to be good enough.

So, in relation to your analysis, there's something to be said for the buckshot approach , provided that you have multiple defensive prospects.
But the Avs are not giving up a ton of D prospects.... Wilson has almost certainly topped out in terms of what he will ever be as an NHL D man. Mcginn could be traded for a prospect or two I guess. And again, giving up one mid-tier 1st is nothing. Plus the Avs already have a decent "spread" of D prospects in Elliott, Siemens, Barrie, and the rest of the pool. What they do not have is a guy that you know can step up and play 25 min and produce 40-50 points.

Last season, Phanuef score 4 more goals, 9, than the Avs D scored combined, 5. Avs D had 44 points COMBINED, Phanuef had 28 alone. And what is to stop the Avs from signing Phanuef? Maybe he walks, but the Avs have a whole season to sign him to a new contract. Very few players have ever left Denver unless the Avs wanted them to...plus the Avs are only going to get better over the next 5-10 years given the core already established....and the golden cities, NY, Philly, and LA, are full up on being able to afford players like Dion in the cap world.

Over a full season, his stats line would have been 16 goals, 33 assists, for 49 points! On the Avs that would have had him 4th in scoring in 2011-2012, 4th in 2010-2011, 3rd in 2009-2010, and 4th in 2008-2009. I don't automatically expect a season north of 50 points from him on the Avs, but he has put up 30+ points every year (excluding the last, which was only 48 games.) he has been in the NHL, over 40 five times, and over 50 twice.


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07-06-2013, 11:33 PM
  #103
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Just trade Stastny already, there is no way we can keep Matt Duchene, Nathan MacKinnon, Ryan O'Reilly and Paul Stastny long term. There is just no way. And if we lose Stastny to FA in a year, we will get nothing for him. And why would he re-sign here when he knows he will be our 4th best center soon? O'Reilly on the wing is fine until Stastny is gone, but it isnt long term. Just make that trade already.

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07-06-2013, 11:37 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by cgf View Post
My issue isn't giving up the 1st, Wilson, Pickard/Martin/Aitto and Sgar/McG or Barrie Elliott, it's giving all of that up for Phaneuf, who's not just an upcoming UFA, but is also not that good a fit next to EJ as EJ would have to continue playing as cleaner upper instead of finally getting a partner he can trust to clean up for him. If we were getting back Vlasic instead I'd be all for it because Vlasic is under control for quite a while and could finally give EJ a partner he can trust, but for Phaneuf? No ****ing way.
Agree 100%
Dion is not a target I'd want to pursue at a hefty price.
If it were at a cost more like
1st+Goalie prospect+ McGinn/Wilson I'd be ok, but adding to that is getting too steep for me.

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07-06-2013, 11:56 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by RobinDIF View Post
Just trade Stastny already, there is no way we can keep Matt Duchene, Nathan MacKinnon, Ryan O'Reilly and Paul Stastny long term. There is just no way. And if we lose Stastny to FA in a year, we will get nothing for him. And why would he re-sign here when he knows he will be our 4th best center soon? O'Reilly on the wing is fine until Stastny is gone, but it isnt long term. Just make that trade already.
*shrug* who knows though. I'm not the biggest fan of moving radar to the wing, but I also think that a Radar-Stastny-Landy line could be absolutely amazing and challenge Marchand-Bergeron-Erikson as the NHL's best two way line. If they work as amazingly well together as they look like they might, I could see them wanting to stick around to play together, especially if that line becomes our top opposition battling line and both can feel the love playing next to our captain 20 minutes a night.

Until we see it in action and the new regime talks to the players agents about extensions we won't know whether it's a tenable option moving forward or not.

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07-07-2013, 12:01 AM
  #106
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Having Stastny this season is really ideal. He can play in the second line role and help ease in MacKinnon. That being said SoS will need to be moved if ROR adjusts well to the wing. I would play ROR with MacKinnon though. ROR could really up Mack with his defense and relieve a great deal of pressure off of ROR.

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07-07-2013, 12:02 AM
  #107
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I do wonder what kind of defensemen we could get with just the 1st or 2nd round pick, Wilson, and some combination of Pickard/Aitto/Martin, Barrie/Elliott or Hishon/Sgar/McGinn. Would something like the 1st, Wilson and a goalie for Kulikov work? Would adding Hishon or Sgar instead of the goalie or alongside the goalie be enough? How much would Bouwmeester cost if Stl needs to make cap space? 2nd, Wilson and a goalie? Could that get Coburn?

I think there's pieces there to make a nice package to get another legit top 4 guy this summer without breaking up our top 9 forwards and holding onto EJ, Siemens, Hejda and at least one of Barriott. And if we can make that type of trade for a capable 2-3 type lefty who can play with EJ, I'll be very excited about where this team is and our future.

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07-07-2013, 12:05 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Boulder Avalanche View Post
Having Stastny this season is really ideal. He can play in the second line role and help ease in MacKinnon. That being said SoS will need to be moved if ROR adjusts well to the wing. I would play ROR with MacKinnon though. ROR could really up Mack with his defense and relieve a great deal of pressure off of ROR.
Eh, once he's adapted I think Mac will be a lot like Dutchy which is why I want each to have a crafty playmaking winger on one wing and true sandpaper guy on the other. That's why I think we end up with McGinn-Dutchy-Parenteau on one line and Tanguay-Mac-Downie on another, with Sgar or Hishon replacing Tangs down the line as mac's crafty winger. I just think that's the best set up for each one of them to flourish while also letting us throw a Radar-Stastny-Landy line at other teams' top lines so one of Dutchy or Mac gets softer minutes to exploit their speed and skill.

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07-07-2013, 12:08 AM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgf View Post
I do wonder what kind of defensemen we could get with just the 1st or 2nd round pick, Wilson, and some combination of Pickard/Aitto/Martin, Barrie/Elliott or Hishon/Sgar/McGinn. Would something like the 1st, Wilson and a goalie for Kulikov work? Would adding Hishon or Sgar instead of the goalie or alongside the goalie be enough? How much would Bouwmeester cost if Stl needs to make cap space? 2nd, Wilson and a goalie? Could that get Coburn?

I think there's pieces there to make a nice package to get another legit top 4 guy this summer without breaking up our top 9 forwards and holding onto EJ, Siemens, Hejda and at least one of Barriott. And if we can make that type of trade for a capable 2-3 type lefty who can play with EJ, I'll be very excited about where this team is and our future.
Kulikov would be an excellent pickup. I would make sure that the 1st rounder is top 5 protected though. In a few years this would be a pretty good to great defense.

EJ-Kulikov

Siemens-Elliot

Barrie-Bigras

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Old
07-07-2013, 12:24 AM
  #110
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I would let a kangaroo box my nuts if we got Pietrangelo, and I would need to fly to the other side of the world to accomplish that.
i'll fly you out to do this


i would love if we got AP on this team

i think i remember hearing something on tsn about a team interested in offer sheeting pietrangelo, but they were worried about counter offer sheets to their our rfa's , just a wild guess but we got duchene , landy , orly, as rfa's and even staz as ufa

if there was a year not to step on anyone's toes i think now is the time, now if we signed landy and duchene long term before pietrangelo get's signed then i could jump on board with the idea.

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07-07-2013, 12:40 AM
  #111
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Is Vancouver still entertaining trading Edler? I'd give a lot for him, unprotected 1st, Wilson, Elliott, Sgar and a goalie lot.

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07-07-2013, 12:44 AM
  #112
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Is Vancouver still entertaining trading Edler? I'd give a lot for him, unprotected 1st, Wilson, Elliott, Sgar and a goalie lot.
The word is, they are not. After trading Schneider. Not in cap trouble anymore.

And since Nucks consider themselves a contender right now, I dont think they would trade a first pairing d-man for a package of prospect and pick.

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07-07-2013, 12:44 AM
  #113
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Is Vancouver still entertaining trading Edler? I'd give a lot for him, unprotected 1st, Wilson, Elliott, Sgar and a goalie lot.
With the Ballard buyout apparently not

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07-07-2013, 12:45 AM
  #114
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Coburn for a 2nd, Wilson and prospect it is then!

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Old
07-07-2013, 01:28 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by cgf View Post
Is Vancouver still entertaining trading Edler? I'd give a lot for him, unprotected 1st, Wilson, Elliott, Sgar and a goalie lot.
I think Vancouver would want a good winger and a cheap body on defence going back. I was actually thinking if they moved him, they'd target a guy like Bobby Ryan.

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07-07-2013, 02:25 AM
  #116
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Teams that might feel the cap crunch.

Penguins: Over the cap with 22 players signed. Possible targets: Orpik and Niskanen. I'm not a fan of getting either, but Orpik should help our group of defenders.

Blues:: They have $8M in free cap space (with 24 players signed, so there should be some extra room) but have Stewart/Pietrangelo to sign. They're also not a cap team so they won't be able to afford all players. Possible targets: Bouwmeester (unlikely), Polak. Perhaps Perron or Oshie.

Flyers:: Might have to trade someone. Coburn/Meszaros is the most likely.

Canucks:
: $5M in cap space with four players to sign. Edler and Booth are the salary they might be looking to move. One would be very expensive and one they have to pay us to take.

Columbus: Have salaries over $66M. Might be looking to shed some.

Toronto: Have $10M in space but have Gunnarsson, Kadri, Franson, Fraser to sign and it's looking like Gunnarsson and Franson will be going to arbitration.

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07-07-2013, 02:40 AM
  #117
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Canucks:
: $5M in cap space with four players to sign. Edler and Booth are the salary they might be looking to move. One would be very expensive and one they have to pay us to take.
How about we take both and then we barrie Booth in the minors?

It's 3:40 AM and I thought that was clever.

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07-07-2013, 02:54 AM
  #118
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I wonder what the asking price for Gunnarsson would be. Looks like the Leafs are prepared to go with Kadri/Bozak/Bolland/McLement down the middle so that should end the Stastny talk.

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07-07-2013, 07:36 AM
  #119
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I wonder what the asking price for Gunnarsson would be. Looks like the Leafs are prepared to go with Kadri/Bozak/Bolland/McLement down the middle so that should end the Stastny talk.
been fun reading on the leafs board. Now that their dmen are going to arbitration (Franson, Gunnar, Fraser) it appears they will likely have to lose at least 1 in a trade, and lots of talk now about how Gunnar has been a bit over hyped on the leafs board (by their own admission) and is not as great as he was made out to be. Kinda funny, since he was the "quality" piece in many a Stastny proposal.

I think a Goalie prospect + Sgarbossa/Hishon could be the minimum or McGinn + Goalie prospect maximum that could do it.
I'd not mind offering Sgarbossa + Aittokallio + Hunwick/Sarich to start.

Still think a prospect who has top pairing potential and is NHL ready but may need a year to adjust to NHL hockey is the best route for the Avs to look for that top pairing player. Probably one from a LHD deep team or a win now team (Gormley, Gardiner, Pittsburgh has a few)

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07-07-2013, 07:36 AM
  #120
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Somewhat related, Bruns seems to be playing forward next year too

Kind of like that decision. Not the biggest hockey IQ, he was turnover machine on D.

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07-07-2013, 07:41 AM
  #121
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been fun reading on the leafs board. Now that their dmen are going to arbitration (Franson, Gunnar, Fraser) it appears they will likely have to lose at least 1 in a trade, and lots of talk now about how Gunnar has been a bit over hyped on the leafs board (by their own admission) and is not as great as he was made out to be. Kinda funny, since he was the "quality" piece in many a Stastny proposal.

I think a Goalie prospect + Sgarbossa/Hishon could be the minimum or McGinn + Goalie prospect maximum that could do it.
I'd not mind offering Sgarbossa + Aittokallio + Hunwick/Sarich to start.

Still think a prospect who has top pairing potential and is NHL ready but may need a year to adjust to NHL hockey is the best route for the Avs to look for that top pairing player. Probably one from a LHD deep team or a win now team (Gormley, Gardiner, Pittsburgh has a few)
I'd like Dumoulin from the Pens but as they are pretty tight with the cap, I don't see them giving up him. At least cheap. But I'm not sure if he would fit on long-term plans, on the other hand.

I'd prefer vet or unproven rookie. Barrie and Elliott are still very young and Siemens could make the team in 2014. I prefer some vets for mentoring or at least ones that have closer to 5 years of play in the league.

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07-07-2013, 10:23 AM
  #122
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I think trading Stastny for a defender is a good idea, but since we aren't really gearing up for the Cup this year, we should keep him and hope he plays well and increases his own value. That way we've either got a Stastny who's playing like we expect and maybe we resign him at a decent extension or he has increased value in a trade for a top pairing D. If he plays just okay, his trade value remains the same.

The main thing wrong with this idea is that he'd be that much closer to free agency if we wait half a season and that always affects trade value. But I do think unless something too good to pass up comes along, we should hold on to him for a bit.

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07-07-2013, 11:10 AM
  #123
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been fun reading on the leafs board. Now that their dmen are going to arbitration (Franson, Gunnar, Fraser) it appears they will likely have to lose at least 1 in a trade, and lots of talk now about how Gunnar has been a bit over hyped on the leafs board (by their own admission) and is not as great as he was made out to be. Kinda funny, since he was the "quality" piece in many a Stastny proposal.

I think a Goalie prospect + Sgarbossa/Hishon could be the minimum or McGinn + Goalie prospect maximum that could do it.
I'd not mind offering Sgarbossa + Aittokallio + Hunwick/Sarich to start.

Still think a prospect who has top pairing potential and is NHL ready but may need a year to adjust to NHL hockey is the best route for the Avs to look for that top pairing player. Probably one from a LHD deep team or a win now team (Gormley, Gardiner, Pittsburgh has a few)
Screw giving one of our goalie prospects away to the Leafs. I doubt they would want one at any rate. They gave up some picks this year for Bolland so maybe they'd want one back? Give them Sgarbossa+2nd+Hunwick/Sarich to fill in a spot on their blueline. If it is Pittsburgh we're dealing with then I don't see the problem in giving up a goalie prospect. Does anyone know if Pittsburgh even has any noteworthy goalie prospects?

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07-07-2013, 11:12 AM
  #124
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I think trading Stastny for a defender is a good idea, but since we aren't really gearing up for the Cup this year, we should keep him and hope he plays well and increases his own value. That way we've either got a Stastny who's playing like we expect and maybe we resign him at a decent extension or he has increased value in a trade for a top pairing D. If he plays just okay, his trade value remains the same.

The main thing wrong with this idea is that he'd be that much closer to free agency if we wait half a season and that always affects trade value. But I do think unless something too good to pass up comes along, we should hold on to him for a bit.
If we decide to trade Stastny mid season or near the trade deadline, we are not getting a top pairing defenseman, maybe a #4 but even that is unlikely.

We have to accept that we are probably getting picks and prospect for Stastny if we trade him.

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07-07-2013, 12:03 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Gumballhead View Post
I think trading Stastny for a defender is a good idea, but since we aren't really gearing up for the Cup this year, we should keep him and hope he plays well and increases his own value. That way we've either got a Stastny who's playing like we expect and maybe we resign him at a decent extension or he has increased value in a trade for a top pairing D. If he plays just okay, his trade value remains the same.

The main thing wrong with this idea is that he'd be that much closer to free agency if we wait half a season and that always affects trade value. But I do think unless something too good to pass up comes along, we should hold on to him for a bit.
If he has a decent season, his value at the trade deadline would be sky high to a contender needing to add an offensive punch. It won't get us a D man at the deadline, at least not one that will step in right away, but it could get us a decent package of prospects and picks to bundle for a D man at the draft next summer.

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