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Current offseason Salary Cap calculations

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07-06-2013, 05:04 PM
  #1
ahthorne
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Current offseason Salary Cap calculations

I find CapGeek to be unreliable, so I decided to do some more accurate calculations as to what the Flyers current Salary Cap 'woes' look like.

The way it works is all 1-way deals are counted full against the cap, but all two-way deals are based on their actual cap cost in the past season, which is calculated based on bonuses & how many days they actually spent on the Flyers roster. All qualifying offers are based on what the QO was valued at and then again based off of how many days spent on the Flyers roster in 2013-14. Using Gustafsson as an example:

Qualifying Offer of $850,500. Spent 56 of 99 (57%) of the season on the Flyers roster, so therefore we take 57% of the Qualifying Offer and use that against the Cap. Of course, once an actual contract is signed the number will likely change and go up.

1-way deals:
Hartnell - $4.75mil
Lecavalier - $4.5mil
Voracek - $4.25mil
Simmonds - $3.975mil
Giroux - $3.75mil
Talbot - $1.75mil
Read - $900k
Rinaldo - $750k
Rosehill - $675k
Hall - $600k
Timonen - $6mil
Streit - $5.25mil
Pronger - $4.94mil
Coburn - $4.5mil
Meszaros - $4mil
Schenn - $3.6mil
Grossmann - $3.5mil
Gustafsson - $1mil
Gervais - $825k
Bourdon – $612.5k
Emery - $1.65mil
Mason - $1.5mil
= $63, 278, 939

2-way deals & Qualifying Offers:
Schenn - $855,000
Couturier - $925,000
McGinn - $555,808
Laughton - $160,859
Akeson - $43,333
Konan - $45,429
Heeter - $6,742
QO Wellwood – $48,000
QO Lauridsen - $195,000
QO Manning - $86,667
= $3, 776, 838

Buyouts & Overages:
Bartulis - $100,000
Overage - $182,927
= $282, 927

TOTAL:
$67, 388, 704
---
CAP: $64, 300, 000
SPACE: - $3, 088, 704

So the Flyers must shed around $3mil in order to get under for the start of the season - and yes Pronger and Bourdon's caphits need to be included as they don't go onto the LTIR (if injured) until the season has already started. Even if injured, the caphit counts until it is able to go onto LTIR. The team is allowed to go 10% over throughout the offseason, but before training camp and the season starts they must be under $64.3mil.

So really, hardly woe worthy. Still, something has to be moved with a caphit north of $3mil...

Anyway, any thoughts? Any ideas on how they get under, who they would move and if they can add anymore players?

EDIT: Added Gustafsson's 1-way deal.


Last edited by ahthorne: 07-09-2013 at 04:16 PM.
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07-06-2013, 05:14 PM
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Still would be interested in Coburn for Beaulieu plus

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07-06-2013, 05:25 PM
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Ha, I've seen so many different version of how much we're over by, I worked it out that we'll be over by about $1.8m once the qualifying offers are signed and some more obvious players are sent down, but either way the conclusions are the same, we need to clear some cap.

You've got to be looking at the D. Carrying $7.5m on the bottomed pairing (Mesz and Grossmann) is just unnecessary. Unless there really is a great deal to be done with Coburn I'd just do my best to dump Mesz and (unfortunately) failing that Grossmann.

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07-06-2013, 07:28 PM
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bennysflyers16
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Horcoff got a pick. As soon as Mezz is cleared he will get a late pick and we should be gold.

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07-06-2013, 08:35 PM
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Flukeshot
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I think Mesz is going to be hard to move because his contract is the reverse of what cap floor teams want. A 4m cap hit but 5.5m cash

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07-06-2013, 08:46 PM
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JoeFlyer
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Originally Posted by Flukeshot View Post
I think Mesz is going to be hard to move because his contract is the reverse of what cap floor teams want. A 4m cap hit but 5.5m cash
Yeah it's deffo not an easy deal to move, I wouldn't be too suprised to see us move him for a pick but retain $0.5m or even £1m of his cap hit...

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07-06-2013, 09:02 PM
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Wasn't Bourdon medically cleared already? Or am I dreaming?

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07-06-2013, 09:59 PM
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Wasn't Bourdon medically cleared already? Or am I dreaming?
I don't know if he was but last I heard he expected to be ready of this season. If so you should be heading to ADK. That's still leaves about a mil of overage though.

Anyway, if anyone is moved I hope it's Mez. I still think he can be moved for a conditional pick even given his contract's structure and injury concerns.

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07-06-2013, 10:23 PM
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MountainHawk
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B. Schenn is waiver exempt for another 48 games iirc, so we don't need to move anyone. He starts in the AHL until Pronger can be put on LTIR, and then Schenn is called up.

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07-06-2013, 10:44 PM
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Broad Street Elite
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Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
B. Schenn is waiver exempt for another 48 games iirc, so we don't need to move anyone. He starts in the AHL until Pronger can be put on LTIR, and then Schenn is called up.
This is the kind of creative accounting teams have used in the past. I remember Giroux being moved to the AHL for a couple days to get cap compliant.

Couple other points:

1. Bourdon is participating in prospect camp on Monday, so I have to assume he's medically cleared, but we'll hear about it more then I'm sure.

2. Mezsaros is NOT medically cleared and likely won't be for 3-4 more weeks. There is just no way a team is going to take him until he clears. I'm sure that's why Coburn is being discussed now as a means to make sure the salary can be moved.

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07-06-2013, 11:06 PM
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Stizzle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
B. Schenn is waiver exempt for another 48 games iirc, so we don't need to move anyone. He starts in the AHL until Pronger can be put on LTIR, and then Schenn is called up.
Great thought! You are the man!

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07-06-2013, 11:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
B. Schenn is waiver exempt for another 48 games iirc, so we don't need to move anyone. He starts in the AHL until Pronger can be put on LTIR, and then Schenn is called up.
Yeah there's that but I assumed the team would want to hold off on putting Pronger on LTIR. If I'm not mistaken there are repercussions, say at the deadline if the team wants to add a player. Plus I'm not thrilled with the idea of Gus as a 7th after what he showed earlier this yr (NHL and IIHF). He's 24 so if he's gonna ever have a shot in he'll at becoming more then he currently is he needs consistant playing time at the NHL level.

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07-07-2013, 12:24 AM
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Originally Posted by ahthorne View Post
The team is allowed to go 10% over throughout the offseason, but before training camp and the season starts they must be under $64.3mil.
You sure? To my memory, I thought it was the "offseason" until about 3 days before the start of the regular season. AFAIR, that's when you need to hit the 64.3 cap number.

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07-07-2013, 02:12 AM
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ahthorne
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Originally Posted by achdumeingute View Post
You sure? To my memory, I thought it was the "offseason" until about 3 days before the start of the regular season. AFAIR, that's when you need to hit the 64.3 cap number.
Well, what I mean is anybody who would be going straight to LTIR (Pronger) has to be included before the deadline, whenever it is. Can't just be over the Cap entering the deadline and then put him on LTIR to get under ... Pretty sure you are correct though, nice catch.

EDIT: Regarding Mesz, I'm sure we could retain a little salary in a deal. Enough to get under for the deadline and then we'll gain an extra $5mil to use in the season anyway, so a little retention for this season wouldn't be devastating.

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07-07-2013, 02:17 AM
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Originally Posted by achdumeingute View Post
You sure? To my memory, I thought it was the "offseason" until about 3 days before the start of the regular season. AFAIR, that's when you need to hit the 64.3 cap number.
It's the "last day of training camp", which has been last defined as the last day of the preseason schedule (includes the entirety of that day).


Last edited by Broad Street Elite: 07-07-2013 at 02:29 AM.
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07-07-2013, 02:35 AM
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achdumeingute
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Originally Posted by ahthorne View Post
Well, what I mean is anybody who would be going straight to LTIR (Pronger) has to be included before the deadline, whenever it is. Can't just be over the Cap entering the deadline and then put him on LTIR to get under ... .
You sure? So right now, we are over the cap. 1m, 2.5m, ect whatever the number is, we are over.

On the "first day of the league season" we add Pronger to LTIR. We are still at the cap, but are allowed to then exceed the cap by the amout of his hit.

I don't think we actually need to be under "naturally" on that day. I think someone else did this last year, or the year before.

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07-07-2013, 04:41 AM
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Rick Deckard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
B. Schenn is waiver exempt for another 48 games iirc, so we don't need to move anyone. He starts in the AHL until Pronger can be put on LTIR, and then Schenn is called up.
Doesn't help alot, we only get 870k cap relief by assigning Schenn to the Phantoms.

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07-07-2013, 05:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Rick Deckard View Post
Doesn't help alot, we only get 870k cap relief by assigning Schenn to the Phantoms.
Schenn down and Gervais as well (I doubt anyone would claim him) would allow the Flyers a 22 man roster within cap with Pronger included and before LTIR relief:

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.750m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Jakub Voracek ($4.250m)
Matt Read ($0.900m) / Vincent Lecavalier ($4.500m) / Wayne Simmonds ($3.975m)
Scott Laughton ($1.107m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Jay Rosehill ($0.675m)
Adam Hall ($0.600m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) / Zac Rinaldo ($0.750m)
DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.000m) / Mark Streit ($5.250m)
Chris Pronger ($4.941m) / Braydon Coburn ($4.500m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Luke Schenn ($3.600m)
Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m) / Erik Gustafsson ($1.000m)
GOALTENDERS
Ray Emery ($1.650m)
Steve Mason ($1.500m)
OTHER
Buyout: Oskars Bartulis ($0.100m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,606,022; BONUSES: $450,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $143,978

EDIT: Forgot Wellwood has to be on the roster as well.


Last edited by BillDineen: 07-07-2013 at 06:00 AM.
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07-07-2013, 06:03 AM
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Schenn, Couturier and Gervais off the submitted 22 man roster with Wellwood and Pronger could fit:

I would hope LTIR relief could be used prior to recalling Schenn and Couturier and playing the first game.

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.750m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Jakub Voracek ($4.250m)
Eric Wellwood ($0.594m) / Vincent Lecavalier ($4.500m) / Wayne Simmonds ($3.975m)
Jay Rosehill ($0.675m) / Scott Laughton ($1.107m) / Matt Read ($0.900m)
Adam Hall ($0.600m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) / Zac Rinaldo ($0.750m)
DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.000m) / Mark Streit ($5.250m)
Chris Pronger ($4.941m) / Braydon Coburn ($4.500m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Luke Schenn ($3.600m)
Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m) / Erik Gustafsson ($1.000m)
GOALTENDERS
Ray Emery ($1.650m)
Steve Mason ($1.500m)
OTHER
Buyout: Oskars Bartulis ($0.100m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,825,022; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $474,978

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07-07-2013, 06:09 AM
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Rick Deckard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillDineen View Post
Schenn down and Gervais as well (I doubt anyone would claim him) would allow the Flyers a 22 man roster within cap with Pronger included and before LTIR relief

[...]

EDIT: Forgot Wellwood has to be on the roster as well.
You're right, it's enough to stay under the cap right now, but not enough to sign another wing for the third line.

With Meszaros, Coburn and Gustafsson on the roster Gervais can be waived and claimed, he would be the 8th defenseman anyway.

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07-07-2013, 08:31 AM
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MountainHawk
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Originally Posted by Rick Deckard View Post
Doesn't help alot, we only get 870k cap relief by assigning Schenn to the Phantoms.
Schenn has an AHL salary of 67,500. My understanding was as long as that was under $900k, you got full relief.

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07-07-2013, 08:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillDineen View Post
Schenn, Couturier and Gervais off the submitted 22 man roster with Wellwood and Pronger could fit:

I would hope LTIR relief could be used prior to recalling Schenn and Couturier and playing the first game.
I think LTIR is effective at 5pm on day 1, so if there is no game day 1 (i don't think there is, I think the season starts before the first day of games) they will be fine.

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07-07-2013, 08:45 AM
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Rick Deckard
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Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
Schenn has an AHL salary of 67,500. My understanding was as long as that was under $900k, you got full relief.
It's not the difference between NHL and AHL salary I'm talking about, it's the bonuses his contract carries. They do only count towards the upper limit if they are reached (basically).

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07-07-2013, 08:48 AM
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Essentially we can roll with the current lineup but it's not really ideal to be having to send down a load of players who are certain starters for the team, it's bad cap management. It will also means we don't have anything to save in cap for trade deadline day.

Dumping Meszaros would solve both the cap issue and give Gustafsson playing time. If you can't get any trade deals for him you might as well waiver him (rather than send Schenn down) and see if anyone picks him up then. I know it only saves us 900k of his cap hit but that's the same as Schenn anyway, just means a team might bite on the waivers. If not, Pronger + Wellwood on LTIR and bring him back up...

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07-07-2013, 08:52 AM
  #25
MountainHawk
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Originally Posted by Rick Deckard View Post
It's not the difference between NHL and AHL salary I'm talking about, it's the bonuses his contract carries. They do only count towards the upper limit if they are reached (basically).
Oh right, the bonus cushion is back in effect now.

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