HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Softest team in the NHL

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-07-2013, 09:36 AM
  #226
Oak
Hockey fan
 
Oak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 1,756
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
You do see the hawks roster correct ? 99% are 6ft or bigger then you have billing and Bickel at 6ft 5 . Listen again I am not stating I want goons I want size that for checks and finishes checks
We have size, we have Boyle.

Oak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2013, 09:53 AM
  #227
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 14,811
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beardacus View Post
Problem is nobody threw down for McDonagh. He is not new and I think it is not asking much to expect even a Callahan to do something for him. At least a shove or a gloved punch.
What situation are we cherry picking now? When Ovechkin ran McDonagh in a game 7? Theres a time and a place for everything.

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2013, 09:56 AM
  #228
slipknottin
Registered User
 
slipknottin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: CT
Posts: 2,632
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
What situation are we cherry picking now? When Ovechkin ran McDonagh in a game 7? Theres a time and a place for everything.
Not to mention Ove isn't going to drop the gloves and answer anyway

slipknottin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2013, 10:06 AM
  #229
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 14,811
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by slipknottin View Post
Not to mention Ove isn't going to drop the gloves and answer anyway
Ovechkin played like an absolute idiot in that game, a game the Rangers won 5-0. Not "sticking up" for McDonagh, who was fine, really hurt them.

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2013, 11:47 AM
  #230
HockeyBasedNYC
Registered User
 
HockeyBasedNYC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Here
Country: United States
Posts: 12,888
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
When most people are complaining about the Rangers being "soft" they are mostly talking about the forwards.

And "soft" in this instance, in my opinion, has nothing to do with lack of heart. Zucc, Stepan, Hagelin all have heart. "Soft" In this context is about the ability to break through physical play in the slot and along the walls to make plays, and about the ability to win the physical war of attrition in the playoffs by consistently hitting and hitting hard.

With Asham likely gone, the Rangers have 3 forwards who you can argue contribute to that consistently. Callahan, Boyle, and Dorsett. Two of those guys are sub-200 lbs. The other you can argue doesn't do it consistently. That is an issue.

And it is a lot easier to get away with being "soft" when you have Toews, Kane, Hossa, Sharp, etc. in your top-6. Anyone think the Rangers are going to out-skate and out-create the other 15 teams in the East? I'm not holding my breath.

I hear the, "well no one went after him after so and so hit so and so..." argument a lot. The idea of retribution. Boyle will get his ass kicked and Cally you dont want fighting. That really leaves just Dorsett. But IMO its a team thing. Make them pay on the board, its not just about going after Lucic after he crushes someone. Every team deals with that. And the teams that actually retaliate, take bad penalties and usually dont have the skill to win consistently in the league.

Boston is a rare combination of size and skill. Its not easy to build a team like that. It kind of happens over time. Its an identity thats built over years. You cant just sign a couple players and expect to it happen suddenly. Perfect example with the Canadiens and Prust. Sure he injects some much needed toughness into their lineup, but they paid for it big time and overall their team is still deemed as small and soft. The Rangers have tried to inject plenty of muscle and toughness through the years, some of it not working out or materializing as planned.

But the core of the team has balls. To me thats toughness, grit, resilience and by no means can be determined as "soft". I think there's a tougness threshold you have to cross to be a contender in this league and maybe 85% of the teams have it. The Rangers are one of them. Its the deepness of your lineup, top level skill and output that matters. Goaltending, health and the bounces are always huge in the playoffs when it counts the most. Toughness is important - but it isn't as large a factor, it just isnt.


Last edited by HockeyBasedNYC: 07-07-2013 at 11:54 AM.
HockeyBasedNYC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2013, 12:30 PM
  #231
Orr Nightmare
Registered User
 
Orr Nightmare's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,605
vCash: 500
I have avoided this mess for long enough...

In our series vs. Boston, Lucic wanted to make McD his ***** and we had no one to even remotely try to offer McD some assistance...in the past, Prust who was outmatched vs. Lucic would at least engage and remove Lucic from the ice for 5 minutes to open up space.

Lucic crushes soft as pillows Nash in the middle of the year and who defends Nash. I know...we can make them pay other ways...that worked out really well for us.

Now, lets move away from the Bruins...because that is a rarity to build...the Leafs this year will be just as physical if not more physical than the Bruins...the Habs, deemed small and soft with Prust in the lineup...went big in the draft and traded for Parros and signed Nick Taransky and will also have Jarrod Tinordi likely in their lineup

The Sabres...always viewed as a soft team...last year added size and grit...this year...they draft tree trunks in every round.

Every team in the East realizes size and grit and toughness need to be added in addition to talent...because if you have one without the other...you will most likely fail.

It is cute to say we are tough and some guys on our team are tough...hell, every hockey player is tough...but when you hardest hitter is 190 pounds and has one good shoulder you are ****ed.

With the 65th pick in the draft...we take a 170 pound kid who will need 5 years at least to add muscle to his bone thin body and 2 picks later a left shooting dman, Keegan Kanzig goes to Flames, he is 6'7 241, as a 18 year old.

It is nice to go for home run talent...it would also be nice to go for big mean mother ****er's as well.

Every year we draft one big guy and everyone else is a small guy who is fast or has a big shot or his father played in the NHL...the Bruins and just about every other team is now drafting 5 big mean ******** and 1 or 2 smaller talented guys.

With the way this team is currently built...we will not make the playoffs.

Orr Nightmare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2013, 12:58 PM
  #232
eco's bones
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Elmira NY
Country: United States
Posts: 12,445
vCash: 500
The way I look at ice hockey is a game of skill and a game of combat. You cannot neglect either end of that spectrum and hope to be successful. I look at the Bruins and say to myself 'that's a hockey team'--now I've said it to whoever reads this. This is the way you go about building a team. Even their skill guys are not ******** artists--they're not superstars--they don't have the league offices shilling for them like they do for Mario's Penguins or Ovechkin. You go in front of their net you best be willing to pay a price. You're going to get knocked around--not necessarily dirty but real hard. Pick on one of their skill players and see if you can hide from them. If you manage that one of your teammates will wind up paying for you. Their 4th line can play. Guys they call up can play. That team can play any way you want--want to play it tough, want to play it low scoring, want to let the chips fall where they may run and gunning and trying to beat each other up--they accept all challenges.

So anyway--looking at what the Rangers have been doing this off season is not so bad. Are we tough enough-no but there have been a lot of good depth moves. The worst thing we could have done of course we had to do--keep Richards. That's really a WTF! move. Even so third and fourth lines added some size grit and diversity and should be able to pitch in some offense once in a while and it looks to me anyway like there's going to be more in the cupboard in Hartford. I know the Rangers are thinking that McIlrath needs another half to full season in the AHL but circumstances might change that if they do need to do some equalizing.

eco's bones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2013, 05:07 PM
  #233
chosen
Registered User
 
chosen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,624
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
It had nothing to do with the fact hey were bigger and stronger and abused the rangers forwards pinned them in their own zone and scored ? Size wins if you don't see that I am sorry. You want lucic down low or zucc.
I stated earlier that I want Lucic. Who doesn't? Wanting to have him doesn't get you him. He is size and skill. How many players in hockey are comparable to him?

Comparing him to a midget in order to make a point is funny, though.

chosen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2013, 05:08 PM
  #234
Drewbackatu*
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,048
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
I have avoided this mess for long enough...

In our series vs. Boston, Lucic wanted to make McD his ***** and we had no one to even remotely try to offer McD some assistance...in the past, Prust who was outmatched vs. Lucic would at least engage and remove Lucic from the ice for 5 minutes to open up space.

Lucic crushes soft as pillows Nash in the middle of the year and who defends Nash. I know...we can make them pay other ways...that worked out really well for us.

Now, lets move away from the Bruins...because that is a rarity to build...the Leafs this year will be just as physical if not more physical than the Bruins...the Habs, deemed small and soft with Prust in the lineup...went big in the draft and traded for Parros and signed Nick Taransky and will also have Jarrod Tinordi likely in their lineup

The Sabres...always viewed as a soft team...last year added size and grit...this year...they draft tree trunks in every round.

Every team in the East realizes size and grit and toughness need to be added in addition to talent...because if you have one without the other...you will most likely fail.

It is cute to say we are tough and some guys on our team are tough...hell, every hockey player is tough...but when you hardest hitter is 190 pounds and has one good shoulder you are ****ed.

With the 65th pick in the draft...we take a 170 pound kid who will need 5 years at least to add muscle to his bone thin body and 2 picks later a left shooting dman, Keegan Kanzig goes to Flames, he is 6'7 241, as a 18 year old.

It is nice to go for home run talent...it would also be nice to go for big mean mother ****er's as well.

Every year we draft one big guy and everyone else is a small guy who is fast or has a big shot or his father played in the NHL...the Bruins and just about every other team is now drafting 5 big mean ******** and 1 or 2 smaller talented guys.

With the way this team is currently built...we will not make the playoffs.
This is a brutally honest post about the current state of affairs with our beloved Rangers who are indeed softer than carvel, too slow, too small and w/o any meaningful goal scorers other than Rick Nash.

In my opinion, we will be lucky to make the playoffs!

Nice to see another poster on this forum who doesn't buy in to all the ******** Ranger's management tries to sell their fans!

Drewbackatu* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2013, 05:10 PM
  #235
chosen
Registered User
 
chosen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,624
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
If you look at his draft class only Hall, Seguin, Skinner (with his at least 3 concussions), Gudbranson and Fowler have really made a mark. Looking at the d-men Gudbranson taken at (#3) has not been able to develop an offensive game. He was rushed into the NHL by a defensively weak Florida team. Fowler (#12) as well was rushed by Anaheim and although he's got a lot of offensive ability--he is not great defensively and is a physical non entity. It's usually best not to rush players and especially defensemen and goalies.

There are a number of players who were rushed that have struggled mightily--Neiderreiter, Johansen, Connolly and a number who have only played a little--some as injury call ups. A few like McIlrath have not played as yet.

Considering that Dylan starts off his pro career rehabbing a displaced kneecap injury it was a bit of a reach we were going to see him last year. Scouting reports have had him improving since his draft day. Taken for what they're worth--he skates very well for a big guy and he's getting bigger and stronger. His adjustment to the AHL seemed to go rather smoothly considering he didn't get to play for the first 3 months. It didn't take him very long to get up to speed. By season's end he was a mainstay if Beacon's reports are anything to go by he was very often one of their better players. He and the team had a dip in play at the very end--comments from Gordie Clark.

Anyway labeling him as a bust or potential bust after one major injury rehabbed rookie pro season is a bit much. I mean really?!!?!!? Big, mean defensemen who skate well-- who are very physical and can fight on a level of an NHL heavyweight and all at the age of 21 are not something that grow on trees either. You think if the Rangers dropped him somebody else wouldn't immediately pick him up and put him in their lineup? He doesn't look at this point to have a ton of offensive upside but he always projected more as a stay at home crease clearer. A defenseman that big--who can skate and has a good sense of his position and is that big and mean and tough is going to play--and barring career ending injury--for a long time. You know some team out there is going to want a player like that.
Where did I call him a bust?

I said if he doesn't make the roster next year he's more likely to be hype than substance. You think if he doesn't play in the bigs next year that it is likely he will be a valuable asset?

chosen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2013, 05:13 PM
  #236
slipknottin
Registered User
 
slipknottin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: CT
Posts: 2,632
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Where did I call him a bust?

I said if he doesn't make the roster next year he's more likely to be hype than substance. You think if he doesn't play in the bigs next year that it is likely he will be a valuable asset?
Yes, his career isn't defined by what he does at age 21

slipknottin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2013, 05:15 PM
  #237
chosen
Registered User
 
chosen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,624
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by free0717 View Post
I agree with everything Eco says but McIlrath is still a season away. He is no bust. In the meantime we cut Asham and add Pouliot. That makes us softer. Dorsett is the only real agitator/fighter and he is a middleweight. Even though Boyle is 6'7" and 242 lbs, he cant fight for s**t. Pyatt plays a grinding game but he doesn't fight. I don't know if this makes us the softest team in the league but we are pretty soft.
Why do you care if Boyle can fight?

How many Rangers besides Boyle were better in the post-season than in the regular season? He came up big when it counted. And you have a problem with him not being a good fighter?

Winning fights is often the determining factor in winning playoff games.

chosen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2013, 05:21 PM
  #238
chosen
Registered User
 
chosen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,624
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by slipknottin View Post
Yes, his career isn't defined by what he does at age 21
Again, I didn't define his career. I pointed out that by next season he should be ready or it's more likely he is not as good as we have been promised.

When do you expect a player taken that early to appear in the NHL?

Would no appearance by 2015 bother you? 2016?

chosen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2013, 05:21 PM
  #239
eco's bones
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Elmira NY
Country: United States
Posts: 12,445
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Where did I call him a bust?

I said if he doesn't make the roster next year he's more likely to be hype than substance. You think if he doesn't play in the bigs next year that it is likely he will be a valuable asset?
Yeah I do.

eco's bones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2013, 05:23 PM
  #240
slipknottin
Registered User
 
slipknottin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: CT
Posts: 2,632
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Again, I didn't define his career. I pointed out that by next season he should be ready or it's more likely he is not as good as we have been promised.

When do you expect a player taken that early to appear in the NHL?

Would no appearance by 2015 bother you? 2016?
He has another full year, as far as I'm concerned. That injury set him back about a year

slipknottin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2013, 05:23 PM
  #241
NYR Viper
Moderator
 
NYR Viper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 28,352
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Again, I didn't define his career. I pointed out that by next season he should be ready or it's more likely he is not as good as we have been promised.

When do you expect a player taken that early to appear in the NHL?

Would no appearance by 2015 bother you? 2016?
How old was Sauer? McDonagh? Girardi?

If he was on most other teams, he's in the NHL by now. The Rangers can afford to be very patient.

NYR Viper is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2013, 05:24 PM
  #242
Josh3217
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 542
vCash: 500
The team is soft and that is the end of it. Not the softest in the league but it's up there. There is really nothing Sather can do about it either so no point in complaining. The only players on the team that play a constant physical game are Callahan, Dorsett, and sometimes Boyle. What the team is missing is another guy or two besides Dorsett that are mean players.

Josh3217 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2013, 05:24 PM
  #243
Machinehead
★★★★
 
Machinehead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New York New York
Country: United States
Posts: 34,115
vCash: 500
Boyle is awesome. How quickly people forget him bullying Erik Karlsson right out of a playoff series. If we are soft, it's certainly not his fault. He's one of our "stiffer" players to steal a Torts word.

__________________


DEUTSCHLANDWELTMEISTER2014
Machinehead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2013, 05:29 PM
  #244
chosen
Registered User
 
chosen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,624
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
Now, lets move away from the Bruins...because that is a rarity to build...the Leafs this year will be just as physical if not more physical than the Bruins....
The Leafs came within a hair of beating the Bruins. Since you have declared Toronto more physical than Boston in the coming year, they must be a near shoo-in next year.

You can't draw straight lines between physicality and winning unless there is accompanying skill. Yes, you need both, but skill will always be the more valuable asset. Same as in every other sport.

chosen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2013, 05:31 PM
  #245
chosen
Registered User
 
chosen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,624
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Yeah I do.
Based on what Sather and Clark say? Based on where he was drafted? What gives you that confidence? What is it based on?

chosen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2013, 05:31 PM
  #246
NYR Viper
Moderator
 
NYR Viper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 28,352
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
The Leafs came within a hair of beating the Bruins. Since you have declared Toronto more physical than Boston in the coming year, they must be a near shoo-in next year.

You can't draw straight lines between physicality and winning unless there is accompanying skill. Yes, you need both, but skill will always be the more valuable asset. Same as in every other sport.
You need both. The Rangers have players who play a tough style finishing their checks. They need more players willing to drop the gloves to shift momentum or stand up for their teammates.

NYR Viper is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2013, 05:32 PM
  #247
Josh3217
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 542
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
The Leafs came within a hair of beating the Bruins. Since you have declared Toronto more physical than Boston in the coming year, they must be a near shoo-in next year.

You can't draw straight lines between physicality and winning unless there is accompanying skill. Yes, you need both, but skill will always be the more valuable asset. Same as in every other sport.
The Penguins had more "skill" than Boston. I am not saying Boston's physicality won the series, but there is a lot more that go into these wins than skill.

Josh3217 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2013, 05:32 PM
  #248
chosen
Registered User
 
chosen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,624
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by slipknottin View Post
He has another full year, as far as I'm concerned. That injury set him back about a year
Thanks for pinpointing 2015 as his make or break season. At least you took a stand.

I disagree, but neither of us can be sure we are right.

chosen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2013, 05:37 PM
  #249
slipknottin
Registered User
 
slipknottin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: CT
Posts: 2,632
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Thanks for pinpointing 2015 as his make or break season. At least you took a stand.

I disagree, but neither of us can be sure we are right.
It's not his make or break year, that's when I expect him to start playing in some games, wouldn't be a shock if he played half the season in ny and half in Hartford

slipknottin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2013, 05:37 PM
  #250
chosen
Registered User
 
chosen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,624
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
How old was Sauer? McDonagh? Girardi?

If he was on most other teams, he's in the NHL by now. The Rangers can afford to be very patient.
After what you saw this past year in the playoffs, you don't think a better defenseman might have been an asset worth having?

I'm not saying he would have helped. I'm saying that it's a little disappointing that he isn't ready to help yet.

I still see no excuse for him not being NHL-ready at least as a third pairing guy next year. I realize that a lot of you disagree.

He could turn out to be a 2nd pairing guy someday. Hopefully it's not too far in the future.

chosen is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:07 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.