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Old
07-07-2013, 12:22 PM
  #326
habsrule22
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Originally Posted by Hawkguy View Post
Exactly. I'd have no problem paying a little extra for what Clarkson brings, even the 5.2M or whatever he got... on a 2 year contract. 7 years? Yikes.

Clarkson had 46 points last year, 41 pace this year.

By year 3 or 4, Leafs fans will be praying to dump him. If not earlier.
No they ll do like their other signings, like Connolly and komisarek send him to the minors. you can just about bet on it

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07-07-2013, 12:24 PM
  #327
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Originally Posted by Hawkguy View Post
Exactly. I'd have no problem paying a little extra for what Clarkson brings, even the 5.2M or whatever he got... on a 2 year contract. 7 years? Yikes.

Clarkson had 46 points last year, 41 pace this year.

By year 3 or 4, Leafs fans will be praying to dump him. If not earlier.
How can you say that, you have a crystal ball or something? Clarkson is only 29, he can still be useful for the next 4-5 years. How can you know is gonna turn to **** at 32 years old or before?

It's only 250 000 more than Brian Gionta. And Gionta is just starting to drop now, at 33 years old. Still, for a 20 goals-40 points 2 way winger, gio contract isn't that much of an handicap.

Clarkson contract will still be manageable when he'll start to decline. We are not talking about 7.8m$ a year right here.

That's the risk with the UFA market. To get quality, you gotta pay. Or you go for ''bargain'' a la Briere, hoping a marginal player turn into a useful one. I rather the first option, or nothing at all.

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07-07-2013, 12:25 PM
  #328
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Marc Bergevin played with Jagr theres 12 years ago, in Pittsburgh. First scorer of the Pens? Jagr! 2nd? Kovalev!

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/l...000502001.html

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07-07-2013, 12:27 PM
  #329
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Originally Posted by Ezpz View Post
There's a language spoken in Montreal that isn't in Toronto. It has nothing to do with weather..
Certainly with a certain premier things have not gone a way towards convincing people Montreal is a welcoming place (and neither have incidents like that involving a certain soccer federation). Then there's gangster mayors, another mayor arrested, one resigned. Crumbling infrastructure - pipes burst flooding downtown, boil water advisories.....Sky-high taxes. The list goes on and on and on and on and on....

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07-07-2013, 12:28 PM
  #330
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Originally Posted by Ezpz View Post
There's a language spoken in Montreal that isn't in Toronto. It has nothing to do with weather..
An anglophone can live well in montreal without speaking a world of french..

Anyway that wasn't my point. I'm simply doesn't see the Clarkson contract as such a disgusting mistake like other do here, twho at the same time are perfectly hockey to throw 8m$ over 2 years at useless Briere. Priority seems wrong.

Maybe if our Bergevin add locked up Subban long term for a discount, we could afford to slighlty overpaid a UFA who would have been actually USEFUL to our team.

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07-07-2013, 12:29 PM
  #331
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Originally Posted by Driven View Post
I'll take the terrible 29 years old , 50pts , 2way powerfoward contract adressing a need before a useless, 4m$ a year "cap friendly, low risk", 35 years old unidimentional midget on the decline foward NOT adressing a need, NOT making us better and taking sheltered minutes away from our already large number of shtrumph and youngster. To each is own.
He never hit 50 points, his contract is terrible. So is Clowe's, I'd much rather have Briere at 4 million than all those huge contracts that were given.

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07-07-2013, 12:30 PM
  #332
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Originally Posted by dustyrockon View Post
Id love to see...

Max Pacioretty - David Desharnais - Rene Bourque
Danny Briere - Tomas Plekanec - Jaromir Jagr
Alex Galchenyuk - Lars Eller - Brendan Gallagher
Brandon Prust - Ryan White - George Parros

Maybe some alterations within the lines, but I like it.
this is starting to look very decent.

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07-07-2013, 12:32 PM
  #333
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Originally Posted by dustyrockon View Post
Id love to see...

Max Pacioretty - David Desharnais - Rene Bourque
Danny Briere - Tomas Plekanec - Jaromir Jagr
Alex Galchenyuk - Lars Eller - Brendan Gallagher
Brandon Prust - Ryan White - George Parros

Maybe some alterations within the lines, but I like it.
I love the idea of having Jagr and Pleks together. But Briere is like Eller, he plays really good at center and isn't soo great on the wing. We need to have him as a center.

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07-07-2013, 12:36 PM
  #334
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Originally Posted by MonkeyBusiness View Post
He never hit 50 points, his contract is terrible. So is Clowe's, I'd much rather have Briere at 4 million than all those huge contract that were given.
to each is own.

4 points away last year playing for the Devils, same pace during playoff, similar pace this season. Physical, strong 2 way play, still only 29.

Give me this guy for 1m$ and some peanuts more ( who could have been saved by signing subban long term last year) before old useless Briere. Or don't sign nothing at all. Are we trying to build a contender here, or we're doing a collection of bargain marginal UFA?

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07-07-2013, 12:37 PM
  #335
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Originally Posted by Driven View Post
How can you say that, you have a crystal ball or something? Clarkson is only 29, he can still be useful for the next 4-5 years. How can you know is gonna turn to **** at 32 years old or before?

It's only 250 000 more than Brian Gionta. And Gionta is just starting to drop now, at 33 years old. Still, for a 20 goals-40 points 2 way winger, gio contract isn't that much of an handicap.

Clarkson contract will still be manageable when he'll start to decline. We are not talking about 7.8m$ a year right here.

That's the risk with the UFA market. To get quality, you gotta pay. Or you go for ''bargain'' a la Briere, hoping a marginal player turn into a useful one. I rather the first option, or nothing at all.
Clarkson is 2 years removed from having an 18 point season, with powerplay time... even Travis Moen can do that.

He isn't even a 2-way player. He can't pass, he can't skate, he's below average defensively and doesn't play on the penalty kill. If you have a good top 6 then Clarkson is a nice guy to sign for your third line, but he's not a guy you want to rely on for points in your top 6. I won't be surprised if he doesn't come close to 40 points this year..

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Old
07-07-2013, 12:39 PM
  #336
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Originally Posted by habsrule22 View Post
No they ll do like their other signings, like Connolly and komisarek send him to the minors. you can just about bet on it
Can't do that anymore. If they sent him to the minors, $4.3M would still be on the cap.

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07-07-2013, 12:39 PM
  #337
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Originally Posted by Cupmonger View Post
I love the idea of having Jagr and Pleks together. But Briere is like Eller, he plays really good at center and isn't soo great on the wing. We need to have him as a center.
Desharnais isn't half-bad on the wing, with the right people. We can always move HIM to Eller's wing and have Briere center our 1st line

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07-07-2013, 12:44 PM
  #338
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Originally Posted by Driven View Post
How can you say that, you have a crystal ball or something? Clarkson is only 29, he can still be useful for the next 4-5 years. How can you know is gonna turn to **** at 32 years old or before?

It's only 250 000 more than Brian Gionta. And Gionta is just starting to drop now, at 33 years old. Still, for a 20 goals-40 points 2 way winger, gio contract isn't that much of an handicap.

Clarkson contract will still be manageable when he'll start to decline. We are not talking about 7.8m$ a year right here.

That's the risk with the UFA market. To get quality, you gotta pay. Or you go for ''bargain'' a la Briere, hoping a marginal player turn into a useful one. I rather the first option, or nothing at all.
Gionta was coming off a pretty good season and people still felt he was overpaid when we signed him.

Contracts aren't as manageable as thy used to be. You can't send a guy to the minors to clear cap room and the cap also went down.

And how do you have a crystal ball? How do you know Briere won't help us?

The whole point of talking on forums is because we want to share and debate opinions. None of us have crystal balls. Bet evidence suggests that Clarkson will be overpaid, especially when he starts to decline a little.

PS. Briere does fit a need. Just look at his playoff performances.

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07-07-2013, 12:46 PM
  #339
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I can't believe anyone would want a part of the Clarkson contract. I think Briere is an awful signing, but at least it will be off the books soon enough. There's no way Clarkson will be the same player by the half way point of that deal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkguy View Post
PS. Briere does fit a need. Just look at his playoff performances.
Once again...if we even make the playoffs, do you really expect him to sustain his 30% shooting from last time? Narratives are great, but they don't make broken down 36 year olds reverse time.

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07-07-2013, 12:54 PM
  #340
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I look at Clarkson and I see Randy McKay. Stats very similar. Play the game the same way. Should finish pretty much the same. I figure Clarkson has 3-4 decent years in him and the Leafs will be buying out the last year or two of his contract.

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07-07-2013, 12:58 PM
  #341
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Enough with the Clarckson talk. His contract is ridiculous, end of story. Good for him, bad for the Leafs. Now Jagr...the sticking point IMO is Plekanec who MB might have been dealing. Now that St-Louis has signed Roy for one year (Blues were one of the teams in need of a solid 2-way C), this might change the plans. Would love to get Stewart but it ain't going to happen...

The only reason Jagr would end up in MtL would be to play with Plek. I would love this to happen just for the fact that it would bring a lot of flexibility and would force MB to trade both Gionta and DD. The Habs F would now be on par with the NE division as far as size, and I don't think that anybody would have a better top 9:


Paccioretty-Eller-Briere
Bourque-Plekanec-Jagr
Prust-Galchenyuk-Gallagher
Moen-White/???-Parros

Traded:Gionta and DD

Eat up 1.5M of Gionta's contract and trade to Devils for a 2nd (2015 or 2016)
Trade DD to a team that has size and no smurfs, but need of a playmaker (Calgary?). Eat up salary if necessary.

Depending on Chucky's development, we can always get good value for Plek next year, and not resign Jagr. There might also be some youngsters ready to crack the roster.


Last edited by Habsrback: 07-07-2013 at 12:58 PM. Reason: Typi
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07-07-2013, 01:05 PM
  #342
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Originally Posted by Habsrback View Post
Enough with the Clarckson talk. His contract is ridiculous, end of story. Good for him, bad for the Leafs. Now Jagr...the sticking point IMO is Plekanec who MB might have been dealing. Now that St-Louis has signed Roy for one year (Blues were one of the teams in need of a solid 2-way C), this might change the plans. Would love to get Stewart but it ain't going to happen...

The only reason Jagr would end up in MtL would be to play with Plek. I would love this to happen just for the fact that it would bring a lot of flexibility and would force MB to trade both Gionta and DD. The Habs F would now be on par with the NE division as far as size, and I don't think that anybody would have a better top 9:


Paccioretty-Eller-Briere
Bourque-Plekanec-Jagr
Prust-Galchenyuk-Gallagher
Moen-White/???-Parros

Traded:Gionta and DD

Eat up 1.5M of Gionta's contract and trade to Devils for a 2nd (2015 or 2016)
Trade DD to a team that has size and no smurfs, but need of a playmaker (Calgary?). Eat up salary if necessary.

Depending on Chucky's development, we can always get good value for Plek next year, and not resign Jagr. There might also be some youngsters ready to crack the roster.
Gionta isn't an option for trade right now. No one is gonna pay a 2nd for a large contract that repeated the same injury.

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Old
07-07-2013, 01:07 PM
  #343
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Originally Posted by Hawkguy View Post
Gionta was coming off a pretty good season and people still felt he was overpaid when we signed him.

Contracts aren't as manageable as thy used to be. You can't send a guy to the minors to clear cap room and the cap also went down.

And how do you have a crystal ball? How do you know Briere won't help us?

The whole point of talking on forums is because we want to share and debate opinions. None of us have crystal balls. Bet evidence suggests that Clarkson will be overpaid, especially when he starts to decline a little.

PS. Briere does fit a need. Just look at his playoff performances.
Clarkson is 29 years old. He is on a uphill, progressed 2 years ago and this season was on a similar pace.

Briere is 35 years old. He is going down hill since 2010.

Nobody has a crystal ball here, but logic show than albeilt an injuries or a weird simultaneous decline, Clarkson still has a good 4 solid year ahead of him.

Whereas the only chance Briere help us next year is that if by magic he, at 36 years old, gains is form back from 3 years ago.

And yes , 4-5 years from now, a 5.25m$ contract for a 33-34 contract will be manageable for a powerfoward who is still probably be able to play in the top 9 albeilt a severe regression. Worse case senario, you bought him out, Toronto can afford it. It's a still overpayment, it's a risk, but there is a high probability that Clarkson gonna keep being a 25 goals powerfoward for the Leafs for a couple of other season and gonna help us being a considerably better teams.

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07-07-2013, 01:07 PM
  #344
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Originally Posted by habfaninvictoria View Post
Gionta isn't an option for trade right now. No one is gonna pay a 2nd for a large contract that repeated the same injury.
Cap hit doesn't really matter on one year deals unless you're right up to the cap ceiling. Obviously there are teams that can't afford to take the cap hit, but we can eat half of it and Gionta becomes a very valuable asset at 2.5 mil.

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07-07-2013, 01:36 PM
  #345
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Cap hit doesn't really matter on one year deals unless you're right up to the cap ceiling. Obviously there are teams that can't afford to take the cap hit, but we can eat half of it and Gionta becomes a very valuable asset at 2.5 mil.
Less about cap hit... .more about the fact that he is injured right now and can't be moved.

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07-07-2013, 01:44 PM
  #346
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Originally Posted by habfaninvictoria View Post
Gionta isn't an option for trade right now. No one is gonna pay a 2nd for a large contract that repeated the same injury.
Wrong. 3.5M for 1 year for a guy that will bring you 20 goals and leadership for the young players is not a large contact. Lamoriello would have never let him go for 3.5 M.

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07-07-2013, 01:45 PM
  #347
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Originally Posted by Driven View Post
Clarkson is 29 years old. He is on a uphill, progressed 2 years ago and this season was on a similar pace.
16 of Clarkson's 24 points came in the first 15 games of the season. He had 8 points in 33 games after that.

I wouldn't use one great season to say a 29 year old is trending upwards, especially when his track record is so consistent before that. And for all the talk of how "defensive" Jersey is, they generate far more shots than the Leafs did last year. If the Leafs play like they did last year, Clarkson isn't going to have as many shots to battle in.

I have no doubt Toronto fans will love Clarkson next year. But even Down Goes Brown is making Wendel Clark jokes. Heart and soul grinders, even the ones with a bit of skill, tend to be ticking time bombs in their 30's.

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07-07-2013, 01:46 PM
  #348
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Originally Posted by Driven View Post
Clarkson is 29 years old. He is on a uphill, progressed 2 years ago and this season was on a similar pace.

Briere is 35 years old. He is going down hill since 2010.

Nobody has a crystal ball here, but logic show than albeilt an injuries or a weird simultaneous decline, Clarkson still has a good 4 solid year ahead of him.

Whereas the only chance Briere help us next year is that if by magic he, at 36 years old, gains is form back from 3 years ago.

And yes , 4-5 years from now, a 5.25m$ contract for a 33-34 contract will be manageable for a powerfoward who is still probably be able to play in the top 9 albeilt a severe regression. Worse case senario, you bought him out, Toronto can afford it. It's a still overpayment, it's a risk, but there is a high probability that Clarkson gonna keep being a 25 goals powerfoward for the Leafs for a couple of other season and gonna help us being a considerably better teams.
Buyouts still effect the cap - I hate when people say "oh well, buy him out and fix your mistake." It doesn't work that way, especially for teams who are close to the cap every year.

Briere was good two years ago. 62 points in 81 games including playoffs.

He had a bad year last year, sure. Still contract is better than a 7 year contract costing almost 10% of the cap.

And Clarkson wasn't on a similar pace. He was on pace for 41 points over 82 games instead of the 47 from a year before, with a ton more PP time.

Again I'm not saying Clarkson is bad. I wanted him here. Incredile 3rd liner and spot top-6 guy. But that contract is laughable. I wouldn't take it on even if they waived him in 2 years. Too much of a headache. Great player, bad situation.

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07-07-2013, 01:51 PM
  #349
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HurricanesInsider AJ ‏@CanesInsider 18 min

Jagr to Canes, done.

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Old
07-07-2013, 01:53 PM
  #350
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HurricanesInsider AJ ‏@CanesInsider 18 min

Jagr to Canes, done.
Jagr and Semin on the same team, surprised they didn't want Boullion and Briere instead.

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