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Current offseason Salary Cap calculations

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Old
07-07-2013, 09:54 AM
  #26
Curufinwe
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Originally Posted by JoeFlyer View Post
Essentially we can roll with the current lineup but it's not really ideal to be having to send down a load of players who are certain starters for the team, it's bad cap management. It will also means we don't have anything to save in cap for trade deadline day.

Dumping Meszaros would solve both the cap issue and give Gustafsson playing time.
Mezaros will get a conditional pick from someone once he can pass a physical. Gustafsson needs to be playing in the top 6 this year.

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Old
07-07-2013, 10:49 AM
  #27
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So, technically...if we are able to spend 10% over the cap in the offseason, then our offseason cap is around 70.73 mil?

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07-07-2013, 01:30 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Mota View Post
So, technically...if we are able to spend 10% over the cap in the offseason, then our offseason cap is around 70.73 mil?
Yes. But it has to be back to $64.3m for the start of the season, which is before we can move anyone onto LTIR.

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07-07-2013, 01:41 PM
  #29
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Since we can make it work, why not just keep Meszaros? Giving him away seems silly. We would be selling extremely low on him. If he stays healthy, he is a very solid NHL defenseman and still young. I think dumping him is poor asset management. I agree that Gus needs to play, so make Mesz the healthy scratch to start the year. God knows, we are going to need him. You always need lots of depth on the blueline. Maybe he will stay healthy and have a bounce back year.

I know people will cry that we could use that money elsewhere, like signing a winger (Gagne). But really, I don't think any available wingers are that big of any upgrade. The blueline depth is much more important in my opinion. Plus, Mesz is a potentially valuable asset long-term.

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07-07-2013, 01:51 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stizzle View Post
Since we can make it work, why not just keep Meszaros? Giving him away seems silly. We would be selling extremely low on him. If he stays healthy, he is a very solid NHL defenseman and still young. I think dumping him is poor asset management. I agree that Gus needs to play, so make Mesz the healthy scratch to start the year. God knows, we are going to need him. You always need lots of depth on the blueline. Maybe he will stay healthy and have a bounce back year.

I know people will cry that we could use that money elsewhere, like signing a winger (Gagne). But really, I don't think any available wingers are that big of any upgrade. The blueline depth is much more important in my opinion. Plus, Mesz is a potentially valuable asset long-term.
Mez's cap hit is not proportional to his role. It's better cap management to let him go, and it's better prospect management to give a guy like Gus a chance once he's earned it. It also gives some room to sign Gagne or his replacement, which still needs to be done.

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07-07-2013, 01:57 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stizzle View Post
Since we can make it work, why not just keep Meszaros? Giving him away seems silly. We would be selling extremely low on him. If he stays healthy, he is a very solid NHL defenseman and still young. I think dumping him is poor asset management. I agree that Gus needs to play, so make Mesz the healthy scratch to start the year. God knows, we are going to need him. You always need lots of depth on the blueline. Maybe he will stay healthy and have a bounce back year.

I know people will cry that we could use that money elsewhere, like signing a winger (Gagne). But really, I don't think any available wingers are that big of any upgrade. The blueline depth is much more important in my opinion. Plus, Mesz is a potentially valuable asset long-term.
I highly doubt Mez is back after his last year here. He has been severly injury prone these last few years and even when he is healthy, he is just a really good 5/6 that makes way too much money. Anytime he see's top 4 opponents he struggles greatly. Mez is not worth the money he gets as a #5.

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07-07-2013, 02:29 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Mez's cap hit is not proportional to his role. It's better cap management to let him go, and it's better prospect management to give a guy like Gus a chance once he's earned it. It also gives some room to sign Gagne or his replacement, which still needs to be done.
If you total our four top highest D players' cap hits (excluding Pronger) it's more than most teams spend on spend on their top 6 (Timonen, Streit, Coburn and Meszaros = $19.74m). Even then you still have Schenn and Grossmann making another $7.1m. That's just over 40% of the cap on 6 players.

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07-07-2013, 02:49 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Mez's cap hit is not proportional to his role. It's better cap management to let him go, and it's better prospect management to give a guy like Gus a chance once he's earned it. It also gives some room to sign Gagne or his replacement, which still needs to be done.
I know it isn't ideal. But it is just for one year. Read and Couturiers cap hits aren't proportional to there roles either. Just in the other direction.

Gus isn't the concern here. We all agree he is top 6 no matter what.

As for Gagne, or some other winger, I just don't see it as that pressing of a need. Like I said before, our blue line depth is more important. Having Laughton, Mcginn, whoever will do just fine. Mesz would be a huge upgrade over any other available #7 defenseman. Gagne isn't a big upgrade over the other LW candidates.

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Old
07-07-2013, 03:26 PM
  #34
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CapGeek ‏@capgeek 13m
How does long-term injured reserve work and why is the timing of LTIR placement critical? #Bruins #Flyers #NHL http://capgeek.com/faq/how-does-long...erve-LTIR-work
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Capgeek might just be reading this thread. I believe they added to their LTIR FAQ.

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07-07-2013, 07:08 PM
  #35
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^ Nice! Gotta love the technicalities. So yes, we could send players down who would be waiver exempt and who would equal the amount of space we need to get under $64.3 so the timing works where nobody has to be traded and we can just move Pronger to LTIR and then recall the players. Pronger would basically give us $4.9mil of flexibility throughout the year. Meszaros, Coburn and Grossmann all don't even need to be moved and we could go in with a very expensive but also very capable defense. I'd prefer Gus is a full-time NHLer, though - although maybe they use him to dominate the AHL and then he is a full-timer next season once Timonen and Meszaros are officially off the books.

1. Timonen
2. Schenn
3. Streit
4. Coburn
5. Grossmann
6. Meszaros
7. Gustafsson
8. Bourdon
99. Gervais...

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07-07-2013, 10:03 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahthorne View Post
^ Nice! Gotta love the technicalities. So yes, we could send players down who would be waiver exempt and who would equal the amount of space we need to get under $64.3 so the timing works where nobody has to be traded and we can just move Pronger to LTIR and then recall the players. Pronger would basically give us $4.9mil of flexibility throughout the year. Meszaros, Coburn and Grossmann all don't even need to be moved and we could go in with a very expensive but also very capable defense. I'd prefer Gus is a full-time NHLer, though - although maybe they use him to dominate the AHL and then he is a full-timer next season once Timonen and Meszaros are officially off the books.

1. Timonen
2. Schenn
3. Streit
4. Coburn
5. Grossmann
6. Meszaros
7. Gustafsson
8. Bourdon
99. Gervais...
Gus would have to clear waivers to play in the AHL. He'd get claimed for sure. He has to stay on the Flyers.

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Old
07-07-2013, 10:55 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahthorne View Post
^ Nice! Gotta love the technicalities. So yes, we could send players down who would be waiver exempt and who would equal the amount of space we need to get under $64.3 so the timing works where nobody has to be traded and we can just move Pronger to LTIR and then recall the players. Pronger would basically give us $4.9mil of flexibility throughout the year. Meszaros, Coburn and Grossmann all don't even need to be moved and we could go in with a very expensive but also very capable defense. I'd prefer Gus is a full-time NHLer, though - although maybe they use him to dominate the AHL and then he is a full-timer next season once Timonen and Meszaros are officially off the books.

1. Timonen
2. Schenn
3. Streit
4. Coburn
5. Grossmann
6. Meszaros
7. Gustafsson
8. Bourdon
99. Gervais...
Yes, but if no one is traded this summer wouldn't that also imply

1. No Simon Gagné for 2013-2014 (deal rumored to be in place)
2. No Timonen for 2014-2015 (Mesazros out is a given)
3. Potential cap problems for 2013-2014 when Giroux (+4.525M), B. Schenn, Couturier and Read are extended
4. Further cap problems in 2014-2015 if 2013-2014 bonuses are attained (ie overage)

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07-08-2013, 01:40 AM
  #38
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Yes, but if no one is traded this summer wouldn't that also imply

1. No Simon Gagné for 2013-2014 (deal rumored to be in place)
2. No Timonen for 2014-2015 (Mesazros out is a given)
3. Potential cap problems for 2013-2014 when Giroux (+4.525M), B. Schenn, Couturier and Read are extended
4. Further cap problems in 2014-2015 if 2013-2014 bonuses are attained (ie overage)
I don't think no Gagne is a bad thing. I'd really only want him on a one year deal... and I assume that Timonen is retiring. If he doesn't, I'll be surprised. Really it should be assumed that the Flyers will always be tight with the Cap especially because of Pronger's $5mil that will be on for the next 4 years although LTIR works fine. However, the Cap has been rumoured to rise quite a bit - to as high as $70mil. Even if it stays the same, the Flyers would have around $17.5mil in workable space taking Pronger's hit off the books thanks to LTIR. That should be enough although I skeptical of how the Flyers plan to keep all of their forwards especially with the goalies and defenders they will need to sign as well.

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Originally Posted by Stizzle View Post
Gus would have to clear waivers to play in the AHL. He'd get claimed for sure. He has to stay on the Flyers.
That slipped my mind of course. Gotta think something has to give then. Still many months for things to develop.

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Old
07-08-2013, 01:58 AM
  #39
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If we don't need to move some one, let's do what Detroit is known for. 7 defenders!
Gus needs ice time, and he's more capable than our 11th or 12 forward..
We can have our cake and eat it too!
(We could even get Gagne if we wait until the season starts to sign him!!)

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07-08-2013, 04:16 AM
  #40
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If I understand the capgeek article right, the Flyers could do the following for the last day of trainings camp:
  • assign Brayden Schenn to the Phantoms
  • waive Jay Rosehill
  • waive and assign Bruno Gervais to the Phantoms
  • sign Erik Gustafsson to a $1MM contract

Quote:
FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.750m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Jakub Voracek ($4.250m)
-------- / Vincent Lecavalier ($4.500m) / Wayne Simmonds ($3.975m)
-------- / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Matt Read ($0.900m)
Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) / Adam Hall ($0.600m) / Zac Rinaldo ($0.750m)
--------

DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.000m) / Luke Schenn ($3.600m)
Mark Streit ($5.250m) / Braydon Coburn ($4.500m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m)
Chris Pronger ($4.941m) / Erik Gustafsson ($1.000m)

GOALTENDERS
Ray Emery ($1.650m)
Steve Mason ($1.500m)

OTHER
Buyout: Oskars Bartulis ($0.100m)

SALARY CAP: $64,300,000;
CAP PAYROLL: $62,824,356;
BONUSES: $450,000
CAP SPACE (20-man roster): $1,925,644
That would leave $1.9MM to sign Simon Gagne to a contract, that can be signed anytime between today and final day of trainings camp. The Flyers would be cap compliant with Chris Pronger on the roster, could place him on long-term injured reserve and would get almost Prongers whole caphit as injury allowance back (-$25.644, difference between Gagnes caphit and the aforementioned capspace).

The following day:
  • recall Brayden Schenn
  • hope Rosehill isn't claimed
That should be the roster the Flyers could ice:

Quote:
FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.750m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Jakub Voracek ($4.250m)
Brayden Schenn ($3.110m) / Vincent Lecavalier ($4.500m) / Wayne Simmonds ($3.975m)
Simon Gagne ($1.900m) / Sean Couturier ($1.375m) / Matt Read ($0.900m)
Maxime Talbot ($1.750m) / Adam Hall ($0.600m) / Zac Rinaldo ($0.750m)
Jay Rosehill ($0.675m)

DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.000m) / Luke Schenn ($3.600m)
Mark Streit ($5.250m) / Braydon Coburn ($4.500m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m)
Erik Gustafsson ($1.000m)

GOALTENDERS
Ray Emery ($1.650m)
Steve Mason ($1.500m)

OTHER
Buyout: Oskars Bartulis ($0.100m)

SALARY CAP: $64,300,000;
CAP PAYROLL: $63,567,927;
BONUSES: $2,800,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $3,532,073

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Old
07-08-2013, 07:29 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Deckard View Post
If I understand the capgeek article right, the Flyers could do the following for the last day of trainings camp:
  • assign Brayden Schenn to the Phantoms
  • waive Jay Rosehill
  • waive and assign Bruno Gervais to the Phantoms
  • sign Erik Gustafsson to a $1MM contract



That would leave $1.9MM to sign Simon Gagne to a contract, that can be signed anytime between today and final day of trainings camp. The Flyers would be cap compliant with Chris Pronger on the roster, could place him on long-term injured reserve and would get almost Prongers whole caphit as injury allowance back (-$25.644, difference between Gagnes caphit and the aforementioned capspace).

The following day:
  • recall Brayden Schenn
  • hope Rosehill isn't claimed
That should be the roster the Flyers could ice:
You probably have to add Wellwood to the roster too and carry his contract... That leaves you with only $1,331,644. And again you're hoping that no one acquires Rosehill, which isn't an ideal way to run a team. But if Gagne can be signed for that cap I'd do it. It's not like Rosehill make or breaks the team...

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07-08-2013, 01:23 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeFlyer View Post
You probably have to add Wellwood to the roster too and carry his contract... That leaves you with only $1,331,644. And again you're hoping that no one acquires Rosehill, which isn't an ideal way to run a team. But if Gagne can be signed for that cap I'd do it. It's not like Rosehill make or breaks the team...
I don't think that they have to carry Wellwood on the roster, he wasn't injured in the NHL, but I can't recall a similar situation.

Regarding Rosehill, I don't think that anybody claims him at that time of the year. Every team puts someone on waivers and there are many more talented players on waivers at the end of camp.

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Old
07-08-2013, 01:33 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Rick Deckard View Post
I don't think that they have to carry Wellwood on the roster, he wasn't injured in the NHL, but I can't recall a similar situation.

Regarding Rosehill, I don't think that anybody claims him at that time of the year. Every team puts someone on waivers and there are many more talented players on waivers at the end of camp.
Was thinking earlier that we could just ask Wellwood not to sign the deal until the start of the season anyway if we did have to carry the contract.

It's not so much that I'm worried we'd lose Rosehill just that it's not great cap management to be having to do that. I wonder if they'd trade Pronger in two years to cap floor team when he's only paid about $500k...

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