HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Brian Gionta vs David Desharnais - Which one goes?

View Poll Results: Which one goes?
Brian Gionta 61 21.40%
David Desharnais 86 30.18%
Both will be dealt 46 16.14%
Neither, they will both stay Habs 92 32.28%
Voters: 285. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-07-2013, 03:46 PM
  #151
Sens Rule
Registered User
 
Sens Rule's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 22,214
vCash: 500
As a Sens fan I would take Gionta if you paid half his salary. Greening makes about $800K. You give us a 2nd round pick and Gionta and pay half his salary you can have Greening. Greening is a big fast physical winger who has shown a bit of offensive production and maintained that production even when he was out of the Senators top 6. And you save about $1.7M in cap space.

Gionta was on a 25-30 goal pace last year again. He is there every year. That is a lot of goals to want to get rid of him. I don't know why you would want to.

Sens Rule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2013, 04:56 PM
  #152
AntonCH
Registered User
 
AntonCH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,156
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sens Rule View Post
As a Sens fan I would take Gionta if you paid half his salary. Greening makes about $800K. You give us a 2nd round pick and Gionta and pay half his salary you can have Greening. Greening is a big fast physical winger who has shown a bit of offensive production and maintained that production even when he was out of the Senators top 6. And you save about $1.7M in cap space.

Gionta was on a 25-30 goal pace last year again. He is there every year. That is a lot of goals to want to get rid of him. I don't know why you would want to.
We'll pay 1.5 million and you have a deal!!
now can we interest you in a smallish yet still highly skilled center?

AntonCH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2013, 04:58 PM
  #153
overlords
youmyboyblou!
 
overlords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Planet Squanch
Posts: 26,816
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sens Rule View Post
As a Sens fan I would take Gionta if you paid half his salary. Greening makes about $800K. You give us a 2nd round pick and Gionta and pay half his salary you can have Greening. Greening is a big fast physical winger who has shown a bit of offensive production and maintained that production even when he was out of the Senators top 6. And you save about $1.7M in cap space.

Gionta was on a 25-30 goal pace last year again. He is there every year. That is a lot of goals to want to get rid of him. I don't know why you would want to.
Only people who think size is the most important thing want Gionta gone. Awful deal from a habs perspective.

overlords is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2013, 05:03 PM
  #154
LyricalLyricist
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 28,158
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sens Rule View Post
As a Sens fan I would take Gionta if you paid half his salary. Greening makes about $800K. You give us a 2nd round pick and Gionta and pay half his salary you can have Greening. Greening is a big fast physical winger who has shown a bit of offensive production and maintained that production even when he was out of the Senators top 6. And you save about $1.7M in cap space.

Gionta was on a 25-30 goal pace last year again. He is there every year. That is a lot of goals to want to get rid of him. I don't know why you would want to.
I'm not even remotely interested. If you would've said Gionta for Greening I'd say sure I guess. You get a top 6 guy on a 1 year deal and we get a bigger 3rd liner.

The 2nd seems pointless. We have to pay half his salary and give you a 2nd rounder? I honestly don't think we need to do either.

Anyway, as you said, Gionta shouldn't be traded. Some people are obsessed here. If he's traded and we have a player to bring in who fills a need(via the trade or extra cap space)? sure. Otherwise, meh.

LyricalLyricist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2013, 05:04 PM
  #155
LyricalLyricist
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 28,158
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Joker View Post
I think 2013-14 will be Gionta's last season as a Hab. After this upcoming season, Gallagher will likely be promoted to a full-time spot in the Top Six, while we'll leave a spot open on the 3rd line for a good prospect (Collberg, Thomas, etc...). I think that Gionta either gets traded during the season, or we let him walk as an UFA next Summer.

If DD bounces back, he's here to stay. If he doesn't, I think he probably gets traded during the regular season.
This is pretty much it. I think Bergevin will ride it out for Gionta and evaluate DD during the year.

LyricalLyricist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2013, 05:40 PM
  #156
WhiskeySeven
Retired. Bye.
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 21,982
vCash: 300
All things considered, Desharnais cannot possibly get worse. Maybe he can reach another level.

Gionta's the one that fully on the downswing.

WhiskeySeven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2013, 05:52 PM
  #157
madhi19
Just the tip!
 
madhi19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Cold and Dark place!
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,801
vCash: 500
You trade Gionta and give DD another year to raise his stock back. Then you see if you can find a buyer for a small centre. Considering the kind of cash that UFA centre got since last Friday DD could be considered a cap bargain if he rebound. If the Habs can't give him big wingers to compensate for his side somebody else might.

madhi19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2013, 06:10 PM
  #158
Year 101
Registered User
 
Year 101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 641
vCash: 500
I don't know why people are running Gio out the door. He's been a class act and a great captain for the habs. Not to mention he put up 28/29 goals his first two seasons and was on pace for 25 this year. He's been a consumate pro. That being said yea the habs are smaller which is why if were out of contention I can see him being traded, and probably won't be renewed unless for 3M or so.

As for DD, he has no place in our lineup, we have no need for him. Playing him at center would be useless because Galchy will be moved to center in a few years and at that point. Galchy Pleks Eller will be centers, and we'll have some better players on the wing.

Year 101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2013, 06:22 PM
  #159
onemorecup*
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,062
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Both hopefully.
please both

onemorecup* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2013, 06:34 PM
  #160
Teufelsdreck
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 16,678
vCash: 500
Toss a coin.

Seriously, trades of players making several million dollars a year Such as Gionta and Desharnais aren't accomplished by making just one telephone call. I looked at the poll results to find the names of members who had previously established themselves as being insightful but most of them refrained from responding to this arbitrary question.


Last edited by Teufelsdreck: 07-07-2013 at 06:45 PM.
Teufelsdreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2013, 08:44 PM
  #161
Milhouse40
Registered User
 
Milhouse40's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,837
vCash: 500
For all those hoping for a bounce back from DD, consider this:

Big guy hit the little guy = little guy got knock on his ass
Small guy hit the big guy = little guy still get knock on his ass

That will never change, no matter how hard he try.

He never had an NHL shot, so never will have one....even on a bounce back year
He never was a fast skater, so he won't be any faster.....even on a bounce back year.

He made 60pts with 2 big wingers, top PP Time and about 18m/games of Ice-time.
(Played about 16m/game last year)

Did you see many big wingers on this team?
Brière, Eller, Galchenyuk WILL get some of that PP time and Ice-time for sure.
So less ice-time, less PP Time, less big wingers.....and some thinks he will bounce back??? Good Luck with that!

It's a very very dangerous game, cause if he don't bounce back.....Habs are totally screwed for the next 3 years, cause then it will be totally impossible to trade him.
And we absolutely don't him for those 3 years!! Roll the dice? Is it worth it?

Milhouse40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2013, 09:06 PM
  #162
Bourne Endeavor
Registered User
 
Bourne Endeavor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Country: Canada
Posts: 33,351
vCash: 178
Neither will be dealt prior to the season's start. Frankly, I doubt there are any takers for Desharnais right now. Might as well see if he can play to the level he did a year ago and maybe then make a trade to a GM mystified by his sudden talent - like Bergevin was.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
All things considered, Desharnais cannot possibly get worse. Maybe he can reach another level.

Gionta's the one that fully on the downswing.
We all said this about Gomez. He found a way.

Bourne Endeavor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2013, 09:09 PM
  #163
LyricalLyricist
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 28,158
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebinne4pres View Post
For all those hoping for a bounce back from DD, consider this:

Big guy hit the little guy = little guy got knock on his ass
Small guy hit the big guy = little guy still get knock on his ass

That will never change, no matter how hard he try.

He never had an NHL shot, so never will have one....even on a bounce back year
He never was a fast skater, so he won't be any faster.....even on a bounce back year.

He made 60pts with 2 big wingers, top PP Time and about 18m/games of Ice-time.
(Played about 16m/game last year)

Did you see many big wingers on this team?
Brière, Eller, Galchenyuk WILL get some of that PP time and Ice-time for sure.
So less ice-time, less PP Time, less big wingers.....and some thinks he will bounce back??? Good Luck with that!

It's a very very dangerous game, cause if he don't bounce back.....Habs are totally screwed for the next 3 years, cause then it will be totally impossible to trade him.
And we absolutely don't him for those 3 years!! Roll the dice? Is it worth it?
You worry too much.

-DD will always be small, no doubt about it. He may never be physical but small guys can be elusive and sneak past checks. I find Desharnais did it during his 60 point season but not last year. He was pushed around more than he or we'd like.

-He scored 16 goals 2 years ago and was on pace for 17 last year. He's certainly not a sniper but his goal scoring is in the 'decent' or 'complimentary' category. He scores on shooutout too as he posted highest SO% and SO goals on the team last year. He was also #1 in the category the year prior. Again, he's not a goal scoring stud but as long as he compliments his linemates and pots in some goals I'm okay with that portion.

-His speed is lacking but he's not slow, he's just not super fast or fast for his size.

-FWIW, Desharnais was on pace for 48 points last year and he didn't have 2 big guys on his line. A drop in production but he had 40 ESP in 2011-2012. He was on pace for 36 ESP last year. His drop was from the PP. He was pretty bad on PP this year. In general he didn't have a good year but strictly looking at the numbers as you brought them up, it's not crazy to say he has 40 points again, even if he doesn't get PP time.

-Again, he didn't play his best and I'd move him if we need to. I just think we can expect 40 points from him at 16 min/game. Maybe 35-40 even at 14-15 min a game. I'm not concerned. The bounce-back isn't related to his production at all IMO. I think guys like DD will produce anyway. I think it's how he compete and handles plays on the ice which will raise his value at this point. Everyone knows he can make 40+ points but can he create more chances and open up space for his linemates? Can he use his vision? Can he make crisp passes? How much of a risk does he take or is he in control? I think this counts. Everyone knows his strengths and weaknesses. I think most just want to see him in control of at least his strengths again.

LyricalLyricist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2013, 09:52 PM
  #164
Price My Man Crush
Registered User
 
Price My Man Crush's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Montréal
Posts: 4,830
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habitant le colon View Post
the behavior problem of eller a the very beggining of the season miss to your memory??
Tbh, I don't remember or I just don't know what you're talking about and I'm serious. What was it?

Price My Man Crush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2013, 11:07 PM
  #165
Milhouse40
Registered User
 
Milhouse40's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,837
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
You worry too much.

-DD will always be small, no doubt about it. He may never be physical but small guys can be elusive and sneak past checks. I find Desharnais did it during his 60 point season but not last year. He was pushed around more than he or we'd like.

-He scored 16 goals 2 years ago and was on pace for 17 last year. He's certainly not a sniper but his goal scoring is in the 'decent' or 'complimentary' category. He scores on shooutout too as he posted highest SO% and SO goals on the team last year. He was also #1 in the category the year prior. Again, he's not a goal scoring stud but as long as he compliments his linemates and pots in some goals I'm okay with that portion.

-His speed is lacking but he's not slow, he's just not super fast or fast for his size.

-FWIW, Desharnais was on pace for 48 points last year and he didn't have 2 big guys on his line. A drop in production but he had 40 ESP in 2011-2012. He was on pace for 36 ESP last year. His drop was from the PP. He was pretty bad on PP this year. In general he didn't have a good year but strictly looking at the numbers as you brought them up, it's not crazy to say he has 40 points again, even if he doesn't get PP time.

-Again, he didn't play his best and I'd move him if we need to. I just think we can expect 40 points from him at 16 min/game. Maybe 35-40 even at 14-15 min a game. I'm not concerned. The bounce-back isn't related to his production at all IMO. I think guys like DD will produce anyway. I think it's how he compete and handles plays on the ice which will raise his value at this point. Everyone knows he can make 40+ points but can he create more chances and open up space for his linemates? Can he use his vision? Can he make crisp passes? How much of a risk does he take or is he in control? I think this counts. Everyone knows his strengths and weaknesses. I think most just want to see him in control of at least his strengths again.
At least, that would be a more realistic expectation for the smallest center in the league. He isn't paid like a 60pts player either, so that would make more senses.

But a 40pts player is so easy to replace and there's so many in this league that will give you so much more than those points (grit, respect, leadership, hits, size,speed, energy.....FO, PP, PK specialist...).

Last year, There were 234 "centers" in the NHL (some played wings, some played only a game). DD was the 233rd smallest of them. 202 of those center were 5'11" or higher. There's a good reason why that is!!

Last year there were 839 players that played in the NHL.

In the Top 25 smallest players in the entire league:
Gionta, Desharnais, Dumont, Bouillon, Gallagher.
5 of them are on this team (4 regular, 3 are on the top 6)

I know size isn't everything, but i'm so tired of this.
We are soooooo not build for the PO.
Only the exceptionnal (Gallagher) should stay IMO....if the goal is winning the cup!

Milhouse40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2013, 11:14 PM
  #166
MJN79
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 330
vCash: 500
How can there be any takers for Gionta, coming off 2 bicep surgeries to both his arms, probably wont be ready for start of season, I personally dont see how this guy can be dealt.

I hope I am wrong.

MJN79 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-07-2013, 11:15 PM
  #167
Et le But
Registered User
 
Et le But's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York
Country: Argentina
Posts: 18,994
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by overlords View Post
Only people who think size is the most important thing want Gionta gone. Awful deal from a habs perspective.
Well, there is general concern that he could be finished after this reoccurring injury, but if anything he should probably still be a decent possession driving 2/3 tweener. Overpaid sure, especially if his offense is really burned out, and should probably be nowhere near the PP, but but he can still fill a variety of roles while Desharnais and Briere cannot. All sub-5'10" players aren't created equal, but unfortunately Desharnais and Briere do have a ton in common that goes beyond their measurements and first language.

With Gionta I'm less concerned about his height than the fact that he is coming off of another bicep surgery and we don't even know when he will be ready.

Et le But is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2013, 12:24 AM
  #168
LyricalLyricist
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 28,158
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebinne4pres View Post
At least, that would be a more realistic expectation for the smallest center in the league. He isn't paid like a 60pts player either, so that would make more senses.

But a 40pts player is so easy to replace and there's so many in this league that will give you so much more than those points (grit, respect, leadership, hits, size,speed, energy.....FO, PP, PK specialist...).

Last year, There were 234 "centers" in the NHL (some played wings, some played only a game). DD was the 233rd smallest of them. 202 of those center were 5'11" or higher. There's a good reason why that is!!

Last year there were 839 players that played in the NHL.

In the Top 25 smallest players in the entire league:
Gionta, Desharnais, Dumont, Bouillon, Gallagher.
5 of them are on this team (4 regular, 3 are on the top 6)

I know size isn't everything, but i'm so tired of this.
We are soooooo not build for the PO.
Only the exceptionnal (Gallagher) should stay IMO....if the goal is winning the cup!
The numbers I gave are safe numbers and I expect him to go above them. I strongly believe his 60 point season was a "good year" not a "fluke year". His average production should be 40-50 points which is fine at the price he's paid, fair.

Also, well get size in due time. Ill always maintain depth is good and trading away offense for the sake of it is stupid. That being said, when upgrade for DD can be acquired at right price, do it and don't look back. I kind of feel like that about everything though. Crosby for galchenyuk? Kopitar for Eller? All these things, while extreme should illustrate we can always improve the team and no one should be 100% untouchable. Some guys are easier to hang on to though! That's obvious.


Last edited by LyricalLyricist: 07-08-2013 at 12:31 AM.
LyricalLyricist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2013, 08:22 PM
  #169
25get
Registered User
 
25get's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,947
vCash: 500
I revived this thread because all threads are talking about DD as written by a mod in another DD thread.
Would be nice to keep all our comments about DD in one thread.
I also expect a majority of posters to say that DD is worth nothing.
It took two seasons after Ribeiro was gone for the bandwagon to stop saying he was worth nothing...

Gionta is our captain. He will stay for his last year.
Maybe at the trade deadline, he could be traded but I think we will be in the race for a PO spot at that time.
I also expect another season of 20+ goals.

Desharnais has scored at a 50 points pace last season and 60 points in the previous season.
He also signed his contract this year.
I doubt that Bergevin will trade him after signing him for four years.
Anyone think that MB will trade DD in the next 12 months better think again.
I am also sure that MT agreed to sign Desharnais.
Comparing his 3.5M to players who score same or less at same age, I see:
Bozak, Setoguchi, Hansen, Steen, Lucic, Brunner, Berglund, Read, Bickell, Stalberg and a few others.
Almost all of these players are making more than DD and few scored 60+ points.
The ones who does will probably get 5M at the end of next season.
Comparing to younger players is not pertinent as they are still RFA.
I am sure that I am not the only one who thinks DD will bounce back.
We can always reevaluate if he gives us another season of only 50 points (top-6 in any team: less than 100 forwards in 2011-12).

I do understand the desire for more size, but this will come with time.

Bouillon is only here for another year, as a 6th or 7th d-men until Tinordi is ready for top-4 duties

Gallagher is a keeper.

We can have three small players if they are paired with bigger players.

Those three players can all play in traffic even if Desharnais did rush the net less than last year.
Of course, they will not fight but we now have Parros, Moen, Prust, Tinordi who can take care of this.

If Thomas is our best scorer in AHL and score 50-60 points in 2013-14, we may have a decision to take in 2014-15.
After next season, we only have Gallagher and Desharnais who will be small players.

I also saw many expressing concerns about ice time.
If Eller, Gallagher and Galchenyuk are scoring more than Desharnais, they will have more ice time.
Pretty sure that DD will be ready for next season.
He must feel those young players breathing down his neck.

25get is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2013, 10:06 PM
  #170
Mats NAslund
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 4,179
vCash: 50
Voted Neither but I would love to see both shipped out for whatever!

Mats NAslund is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-14-2013, 10:15 PM
  #171
PsychoticHab
Registered User
 
PsychoticHab's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,252
vCash: 50
Neither, we are not contenders this year and Gio with the injuries would not draw his worth. His contract also ends at the end of the year so let's just let him play out his time unless he requests his way out.

In the case of DD, yes he did regress but the mark of a good player is how they face adversity. Let's just give him that chance this year and if he fails he can be moved next year and if he succeeds we have a future 2nd/3rd line winger and possible 2nd PP line winger for the future.

PsychoticHab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-15-2013, 12:13 AM
  #172
Habsterix*
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,473
vCash: 500
I'd be shocked if either one of them was traded, that's just some fans' wet dreams. One is an undisputed leader producing at the salary he's being paid for. The other was just extended with a shiny new contract. They'll give him a chance to bounce back. Both are very well respected in the dressing room. Sorry to the fanboys who want them traded...

Habsterix* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-15-2013, 12:16 AM
  #173
OneSharpMarble
Registered User
 
OneSharpMarble's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,386
vCash: 500
Apparently we don't need bigger players, they will both stay because they have "character".

OneSharpMarble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-15-2013, 01:24 AM
  #174
WhiskeySeven
Retired. Bye.
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 21,982
vCash: 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
I'd be shocked if either one of them was traded, that's just some fans' wet dreams. One is an undisputed leader producing at the salary he's being paid for. The other was just extended with a shiny new contract. They'll give him a chance to bounce back. Both are very well respected in the dressing room. Sorry to the fanboys who want them traded...
0.5ppg at 5m and a NTC with outrageous PP time is proper production?

You're the fanboy.

WhiskeySeven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-15-2013, 10:28 AM
  #175
Habsterix*
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,473
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
0.5ppg at 5m and a NTC with outrageous PP time is proper production?

You're the fanboy.
Since joining the Habs, here's Gionta's goals' production:

REGULAR SEASON
  • 2009-10: 28G in 61GP (on pace for 38G/82GP)
  • 2010-11: 29G in 81GP (on pace for 29G/82GP)
  • 2011-12: 8G in 31GP (on pace for 21G/82GP)
  • 2012-13: 14G in 48GP (on pace for 24G/82GP)
TOTAL: 79G in 221GP (average 29.3G/82GP)

PLAYOFFS
  • 2009-10: 9G in 19GP
  • 2010-11: 3G in 7GP
  • 2011-12: Team missed playoffs
  • 2012-13: 0G in 2GP (played with torn bicep)
TOTAL: 12G in 28GP (on pace for 35G/82GP)

Since joining the Habs
91G in 249GP (average 30G/82GP)


I guess I must be the fanboy.

Habsterix* is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:43 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2017 All Rights Reserved.