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Old
07-07-2013, 03:57 PM
  #126
Jtown
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Originally Posted by tuckrr View Post
Have people considered rolling 7 defensemen this year? It gives Gus playing time, and allows us to hold onto mez until the trade deadline at least...
im not against that idea. but i do worry about hall and rinaldo playing extended minutes. I honestly think hall is going to be on the ice for defensive draws, pk and to begin some periods as an energy line. anything more at this point in his career may be beyond what he is capable of.

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07-07-2013, 04:05 PM
  #127
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I hope one of Laughton, Akeson, Flanagan or Straka earn it in camp. I wouldn't be opposed to Gagne either but only for very cheap.
What wing would Laughton play if he's not playing center? Has he ever played wing before?

Hartnell-Giroux-Voracek
Schenn-Lecavalier-Simmonds
Laughton-Couturier-Read
Talbot-Hall-Rinaldo

I guess that's the most likely line-up.
If they're in need of scoring:

Hartnell-Giroux-Lecavalier
Read-Couturier-Voracek
Laughton-Schenn-Simmonds
Talbot-Hall-McGinn/other rookie

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07-07-2013, 04:19 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by flyersfan018 View Post
What wing would Laughton play if he's not playing center? Has he ever played wing before?

Hartnell-Giroux-Voracek
Schenn-Lecavalier-Simmonds
Laughton-Couturier-Read
Talbot-Hall-Rinaldo

I guess that's the most likely line-up.
If they're in need of scoring:

Hartnell-Giroux-Lecavalier
Read-Couturier-Voracek
Laughton-Schenn-Simmonds
Talbot-Hall-McGinn/other rookie
I really like that forward lineup. I kind of hope they don't sign Gagne to be honest.

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07-07-2013, 04:20 PM
  #129
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Hartnell-Giroux-Voracek
Schenn-Lecavalier-Simmonds
Laughton-Couturier-Read
Talbot-Hall-Rinaldo

I think Laughton and Schenn would make fine wingers, and having them on the roster would give great center depth for taking draws when people get tossed, and when inevitable injuries come up, or if a shake-up is needed at some point.

If they determine Laughton should go back to the OHL, which I find unlikely, then I'm fine with a young guy in that wing slot.

Timonen - Coburn
Streit - Schenn
Grossmann - Gustaffson

I'd like to keep Coburn and Streit away from each other as neither have really been very good defensively lately. Gus absolutely needs to be in the top 6 and given ice time. I will be furious if he isn't. Dude has looked slick and seems to really be coming along.

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07-07-2013, 04:36 PM
  #130
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Pietrangelo isn't coming here barrring some weird twist of fate. Stop getting my hopes up
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Originally Posted by JoeFlyer View Post
Couldn't help myself:

FORWARDS
Scott Hartnell ($4.750m) / Claude Giroux ($3.750m) / Jakub Voracek ($4.250m)
??? / Vincent Lecavalier ($4.500m) / Matt Read ($0.900m)
Scott Laughton ($0.925m) / Sean Couturier ($0.925m) / Jason Akeson ($0.740m)
Tye McGinn ($0.775m) / Adam Hall ($0.600m) / Maxime Talbot ($1.750m)
Zac Rinaldo ($0.750m) / Eric Wellwood ($0.594m) /

DEFENSEMEN
Kimmo Timonen ($6.000m) / Alex Pietrangelo ($8.875m)
Mark Streit ($5.250m) / Braydon Coburn ($4.500m)
Nicklas Grossmann ($3.500m) / Erik Gustafsson ($1.100m)
Marc-Andre Bourdon ($0.613m) / Chris Pronger ($4.941m)

GOALTENDERS
Ray Emery ($1.650m)
Steve Mason ($1.500m)

OTHER
Buyout: Oskars Bartulis ($0.100m)

CAP SPACE (24-man roster): $879,144 (With no bonus cushion)
You jerk!

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Old
07-07-2013, 04:38 PM
  #131
sa cyred
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Thats the thing, would it be a bad thing if a young guy earns the spot over Gagne? I know alot of people still like Gagne here, but might not be a bad thing to let the youngins fight it out for the last top 9 spot. saves us some money and allows wiggle room if he succeeds.

The only thing I would be worried about is the team not letting that happen anyway and just putting Talbot on the 3rd line (ewww) and Rosehill playing every game. Would be stupid but something Lavy would do.

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07-07-2013, 04:43 PM
  #132
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Thats the thing, would it be a bad thing if a young guy earns the spot over Gagne? I know alot of people still like Gagne here, but might not be a bad thing to let the youngins fight it out for the last top 9 spot. saves us some money and allows wiggle room if he succeeds.

The only thing I would be worried about is the team not letting that happen anyway and just putting Talbot on the 3rd line (ewww) and Rosehill playing every game. Would be stupid but something Lavy would do.
I really want no part of Gagne. He doesn't bring that much anymore. If it's a one year deal, I will live with it, but 2+ would be asinine.

The team really cannot be wasting contracts and cap room on guys like Gagne except to plug holes year to year.

Gagne provides little upside at this point. I think a McGinn, Raffl, Straka can do the job and they are cheap and provide a little upside moving forward.

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07-07-2013, 04:46 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by BringBackStevens View Post
I really want no part of Gagne. He doesn't bring that much anymore. If it's a one year deal, I will live with it, but 2+ would be asinine.

The team really cannot be wasting contracts and cap room on guys like Gagne except to plug holes year to year.

Gagne provides little upside at this point. I think a McGinn, Raffl, Straka can do the job and they are cheap and provide a little upside moving forward.
How did you forget the guy who's on pace to score 82 goals next year?

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07-07-2013, 04:52 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
How did you forget the guy who's on pace to score 82 goals next year?


I'm not an akeson believer. I hope he proves me wrong but I just don't see it. But, he is a decent call up option if theres enough injuries that they need someone to play in the top 6.

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Old
07-07-2013, 05:07 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by BringBackStevens View Post
I really want no part of Gagne. He doesn't bring that much anymore. If it's a one year deal, I will live with it, but 2+ would be asinine.

The team really cannot be wasting contracts and cap room on guys like Gagne except to plug holes year to year.

Gagne provides little upside at this point. I think a McGinn, Raffl, Straka can do the job and they are cheap and provide a little upside moving forward.
I wanna see that line do things like the picture with Raffl and Lamarche bullying a guy.

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Old
07-07-2013, 05:08 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by BringBackStevens View Post
I really want no part of Gagne. He doesn't bring that much anymore. If it's a one year deal, I will live with it, but 2+ would be asinine.

The team really cannot be wasting contracts and cap room on guys like Gagne except to plug holes year to year.

Gagne provides little upside at this point. I think a McGinn, Raffl, Straka can do the job and they are cheap and provide a little upside moving forward.
McGinn, I can kind of see where you are coming from because he looked ok last season in very limited action, but what makes you think that Raffl or Straka can fill that role without ever seeing them play in the NHL? If Straka can fill that role, why not add Cousins, Laughton, and other guys playing well in juniors? They have to be at least as qualified, right? I honestly don't know much about Raffl so I can't really speak to what he is capable of, but I wouldn't pencil anyone who has never played in the NHL into a slot in the starting lineup when there are capable NHLers available.

I know some people think Gagne is dead int he water because he had two injury-riddled seasons, but for a third line winger, he's a fine option. If he wants a huge contract in length or money (or both), then I agree let him walk. But if he is willing to sign 1-2 years for $1-$2 million, I'd rather have him penciled in and let the other guys get called up when an injury happens, or simply let them beat him for the job in camp. But I certainly wouldn't give the spot to three players with a combined 18 NHL games under their belts without having a legit NHL option there. If one of the guys comes into camp and earns the spot, then make room for him somehow, but having three unproven guys and hoping one of them can fill the position with no backup plan is not a wise move IMO.

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07-07-2013, 05:20 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
McGinn, I can kind of see where you are coming from because he looked ok last season in very limited action, but what makes you think that Raffl or Straka can fill that role without ever seeing them play in the NHL? If Straka can fill that role, why not add Cousins, Laughton, and other guys playing well in juniors? They have to be at least as qualified, right? I honestly don't know much about Raffl so I can't really speak to what he is capable of, but I wouldn't pencil anyone who has never played in the NHL into a slot in the starting lineup when there are capable NHLers available.

I know some people think Gagne is dead int he water because he had two injury-riddled seasons, but for a third line winger, he's a fine option. If he wants a huge contract in length or money (or both), then I agree let him walk. But if he is willing to sign 1-2 years for $1-$2 million, I'd rather have him penciled in and let the other guys get called up when an injury happens, or simply let them beat him for the job in camp. But I certainly wouldn't give the spot to three players with a combined 18 NHL games under their belts without having a legit NHL option there. If one of the guys comes into camp and earns the spot, then make room for him somehow, but having three unproven guys and hoping one of them can fill the position with no backup plan is not a wise move IMO.
I've got Laughton penciled in right now, but I'm not sure if they are willing to play him at wing or not.

Cousins, sure, put him in the group.

Really, the point is that there seem to be 3-6 decent options of young forwards that project to have a chance to be decent NHLers. I'm not making any claim that specifically one of them has what it takes right now. But I feel reasonably sure that in a competition we would find one of the guys capable of playing 3rd line even strength minutes alongside 2 good defensive players. And the bonus is maybe more than one of them shows something and we have better idea of call up options.

I'm interested in pushing these guys and seeing if they are worth anything. It could be very beneficial moving forward for the club. With the Gagne option we will probably get a 25-35 point player that will probably miss significant time anyway.

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07-07-2013, 05:38 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by BringBackStevens View Post
I've got Laughton penciled in right now, but I'm not sure if they are willing to play him at wing or not.

Cousins, sure, put him in the group.

Really, the point is that there seem to be 3-6 decent options of young forwards that project to have a chance to be decent NHLers. I'm not making any claim that specifically one of them has what it takes right now. But I feel reasonably sure that in a competition we would find one of the guys capable of playing 3rd line even strength minutes alongside 2 good defensive players. And the bonus is maybe more than one of them shows something and we have better idea of call up options.

I'm interested in pushing these guys and seeing if they are worth anything. It could be very beneficial moving forward for the club. With the Gagne option we will probably get a 25-35 point player that will probably miss significant time anyway.
Idk. Obviously if these kids impress in camp I have no problem with rolling one out on the third line. But if they don't, then you have a hole in your roster and you either have to make a trade, sign someone's leftovers (like with Knuble), or just roll with a crappy lineup. Yes it is possible that Gagne craps out or gets injured or whatever your concerns may be, but I think it is a safer bet to go with what you know and see what happens and fall back on another option, than go with the unknown and fall back on more unknown or uncertainty. I like McGinn and I know very little of the two. I would have no problem with putting them out there if there are no other options (or if they do well in camp), but the third line, especially with Couturier and Read or Simmonds out there, could still be an effective line on offense and defense. I'd rather roll with a guy with NHL experience and fall back on the others if need be (or go into camp with the spot as Gagne's to lose) than go with three unknowns and more unknowns to fall back on.

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Old
07-07-2013, 07:03 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by flyersfan018 View Post
What wing would Laughton play if he's not playing center? Has he ever played wing before?

Hartnell-Giroux-Voracek
Schenn-Lecavalier-Simmonds
Laughton-Couturier-Read
Talbot-Hall-Rinaldo

I guess that's the most likely line-up.
If they're in need of scoring:

Hartnell-Giroux-Lecavalier
Read-Couturier-Voracek
Laughton-Schenn-Simmonds
Talbot-Hall-McGinn/other rookie
I assume he'd play LW. I think he's played a little wing but he's primarily a C. It's really not a big deal for young Cs to play wing early in their careers IMO. Richards among others have done it and it didn't do them any harm.

My first chose would be Laughton followed closely by Akeson. I've watched him a lot over the past two season with ADK and I'm convinced that he'd make a good line mate for Couturier and Simmer. I really don't want to see McGinn on the 3rd line, he's a good 4th liner who can jump up but he shouldn't be on a 3rd line steadily IMO.

My lineups are
Hartsy-G-Voracek
Schenn-Vinny-Simmer
Laughton-Couts-Read
Rinaldo-Hall-Talbot

or

Hartsy-G-Voracek
Schenn-Vinny-Read
Akeson-Couts-Simmer
Rinaldo-Hall-Talbot

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07-07-2013, 07:08 PM
  #140
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Honestly, our forwards have got to be close to tops in the league - not just high-end players but also depth. We've got all the talent we need in the top-6/top-9 and a lot of our prospects are projected to be quality role players. Rinaldo, Laughton, Cousins, McGinn, Raffl and to lesser extents Noebels and Holmstrom. Akeson, Flanagan and Straka are more skilled prospects and Straka is the only one who really has size.

I'd be open to keeping Meszaros at least until the deadline. Have him prove himself and get some value, while using Gus in the AHL to finally get the Phantoms into respectable shape... Maybe somebody gets hurt (ha! maybe...) and Gus gets called up for 60 games or so...

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07-07-2013, 07:52 PM
  #141
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Honestly, our forwards have got to be close to tops in the league - not just high-end players but also depth. We've got all the talent we need in the top-6/top-9 and a lot of our prospects are projected to be quality role players. Rinaldo, Laughton, Cousins, McGinn, Raffl and to lesser extents Noebels and Holmstrom. Akeson, Flanagan and Straka are more skilled prospects and Straka is the only one who really has size.

I'd be open to keeping Meszaros at least until the deadline. Have him prove himself and get some value, while using Gus in the AHL to finally get the Phantoms into respectable shape... Maybe somebody gets hurt (ha! maybe...) and Gus gets called up for 60 games or so...
Noebels is my dark-horse to bypass a few guys for some call-up time this year with the big club.

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07-07-2013, 07:56 PM
  #142
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McGinn, I can kind of see where you are coming from because he looked ok last season in very limited action, but what makes you think that Raffl or Straka can fill that role without ever seeing them play in the NHL? If Straka can fill that role, why not add Cousins, Laughton, and other guys playing well in juniors? They have to be at least as qualified, right? I honestly don't know much about Raffl so I can't really speak to what he is capable of, but I wouldn't pencil anyone who has never played in the NHL into a slot in the starting lineup when there are capable NHLers available.

I know some people think Gagne is dead int he water because he had two injury-riddled seasons, but for a third line winger, he's a fine option. If he wants a huge contract in length or money (or both), then I agree let him walk. But if he is willing to sign 1-2 years for $1-$2 million, I'd rather have him penciled in and let the other guys get called up when an injury happens, or simply let them beat him for the job in camp. But I certainly wouldn't give the spot to three players with a combined 18 NHL games under their belts without having a legit NHL option there. If one of the guys comes into camp and earns the spot, then make room for him somehow, but having three unproven guys and hoping one of them can fill the position with no backup plan is not a wise move IMO.

Here is the thing though, will the #9 guy be THAT instrumental where we need Gagne for sure in that position? Like for example, Talbot plays that spot at times and he isn't the most point producing guy. He just provides defensive presence.

Overall if they think a rookie can take the spot I say go for it. If not just move Talbot up like they love to do anyway or sign some FA that will still be out there.

That being said, I highly doubt that out of all the prospects we have one can't do an average job in the #9 spot.

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07-07-2013, 08:14 PM
  #143
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The more I think about it, the more I want Laughton on the wing. There's just no room for him at center, and I really don't want to lose him. Might as well make the shift to the wing right now.

Hartnell-Giroux-Schenn
Simmonds-Lecavalier-Voracek
Read-Couturier-Laughton
Rinaldo-Hall-Talbot

But Laughton could play any spot on the fourth line as well, I guess, and Hall could be a winger. Lots of options, so Laughton is far from being shut out of a roster spot. It's there for him to earn.


The top PP unit needs Giroux, Hartnell, and Simmonds. Timonen up top to QB, and I'd put Lecavalier on the right flank as an extra shooting option.

That leaves Voracek and Streit for PP2. I'd put Schenn out there with them, and any two of Couturier, Read, or Gustafsson. Depends on how Lavi wants to run this unit.

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07-07-2013, 08:46 PM
  #144
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The more I think about it, the more I want Laughton on the wing. There's just no room for him at center, and I really don't want to lose him. Might as well make the shift to the wing right now.

Hartnell-Giroux-Schenn
Simmonds-Lecavalier-Voracek
Read-Couturier-Laughton
Rinaldo-Hall-Talbot

But Laughton could play any spot on the fourth line as well, I guess, and Hall could be a winger. Lots of options, so Laughton is far from being shut out of a roster spot. It's there for him to earn.


The top PP unit needs Giroux, Hartnell, and Simmonds. Timonen up top to QB, and I'd put Lecavalier on the right flank as an extra shooting option.

That leaves Voracek and Streit for PP2. I'd put Schenn out there with them, and any two of Couturier, Read, or Gustafsson. Depends on how Lavi wants to run this unit.
I feel like the PP should stay as is. If it isn't broke, why fix it? Plus that gives Lavy the option to experiment with the #2 PP since I assume the 2 newcomers will be on it.

Hartnell-Giroux-Simmonds
Timonen-Voracek

Schenn-Lecavalier-Read
Streit-Couturier/Coburn/Mez

I know they have experimented with Couts on the point in the past since that's where he was positioned on the Phantoms.

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07-07-2013, 08:59 PM
  #145
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I feel like the PP should stay as is. If it isn't broke, why fix it? Plus that gives Lavy the option to experiment with the #2 PP since I assume the 2 newcomers will be on it.

Hartnell-Giroux-Simmonds
Timonen-Voracek

Schenn-Lecavalier-Read
Streit-Couturier/Coburn/Mez

I know they have experimented with Couts on the point in the past since that's where he was positioned on the Phantoms.
For the most part, I agree, but Voracek's role on the PP isn't exactly unique to his skill set (unlike Giroux and Simmonds, for example). Remember when Jagr played that spot? The unit was just as effective.

Lecavalier could play that role well. He's a big body and a hard shot. That would allow Voracek to use his skills on the second unit along with Streit.

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07-07-2013, 09:06 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Here is the thing though, will the #9 guy be THAT instrumental where we need Gagne for sure in that position? Like for example, Talbot plays that spot at times and he isn't the most point producing guy. He just provides defensive presence.

Overall if they think a rookie can take the spot I say go for it. If not just move Talbot up like they love to do anyway or sign some FA that will still be out there.

That being said, I highly doubt that out of all the prospects we have one can't do an average job in the #9 spot.
I'd rather have a sure bet of Gagne being at least average, over a possibility that an unknown is going to be at best average. Yes it's possible that Raffle, Cousins, or McGinn goes crazy and surprises, but in reality with those three, until anyone actually gets a look at them in consistent NHL action, the best you can hope for is average.

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07-07-2013, 09:09 PM
  #147
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there also
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I'd rather have a sure bet of Gagne being at least average, over a possibility that an unknown is going to be at best average. Yes it's possible that Raffle, Cousins, or McGinn goes crazy and surprises, but in reality with those three, until anyone actually gets a look at them in consistent NHL action, the best you can hope for is average.
There also risk with gagne. He has declined every year for a few seasons now. Theres risk he becomes a liability and also the health risk

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07-07-2013, 10:07 PM
  #148
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I'd rather have a sure bet of Gagne being at least average, over a possibility that an unknown is going to be at best average. Yes it's possible that Raffle, Cousins, or McGinn goes crazy and surprises, but in reality with those three, until anyone actually gets a look at them in consistent NHL action, the best you can hope for is average.
Kind of like what BBS said, I don't know if Gagne will be average. He has been declining the past few seasons and nothing shows that its stopping. Personally between all the offensive prospects we have, I don't know if there will be that much of a difference. Gagne still has defensive play but I don't thi k it warrants a top 9 spot over a guy that will be 10 years younger and most likely over half the price.

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07-07-2013, 11:05 PM
  #149
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Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
For the most part, I agree, but Voracek's role on the PP isn't exactly unique to his skill set (unlike Giroux and Simmonds, for example). Remember when Jagr played that spot? The unit was just as effective.

Lecavalier could play that role well. He's a big body and a hard shot. That would allow Voracek to use his skills on the second unit along with Streit.
I agree but at the same time I'm not sure how Voracek would fit on the other unit. Who's going to center that unit? Plus I'd rather have Lecavalier there to take face-offs since they are so key on the PP.

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07-07-2013, 11:32 PM
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crt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
For the most part, I agree, but Voracek's role on the PP isn't exactly unique to his skill set (unlike Giroux and Simmonds, for example). Remember when Jagr played that spot? The unit was just as effective.

Lecavalier could play that role well. He's a big body and a hard shot. That would allow Voracek to use his skills on the second unit along with Streit.
Um, Voracek had the most goals and second most points on the PP, but yeah, let's demote him.

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