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Old
07-08-2013, 11:44 AM
  #326
Orr Nightmare
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Brian Boyle 28 6-7 244 - can't fight but plays a hard game
Derick Brassard 25 6-1 202 - has balls but wont scare anyone Micheal Haley 27 5-10 204 - feisty guy will have to fight outside of his weight class
Dominic Moore 32 6-0 195 - fiesty but wont scare anyone Brad Richards 33 6-0 196 -should not be on this team Derek Stepan 23 6-0 196 - great player..
Carl Hagelin 24 6-0 186 - fast player..
Chris Kreider 22 6-3 226 - great open ice hitter but also gets crushed a lot Rick Nash 29 6-4 213 - soft for a player his size.
Benoit Pouliot 26 6-3 199 - should be tougher but isn't Taylor Pyatt 31 6-4 230 99 - same as above
Arron Asham 35 5-11 205 - big balls for Hartford
Ryan Callahan 28 5-11 190 - heart of a lion...can't continue to play his game if he want to survive
Derek Dorsett 26 6-0 192 - will get killed fighting the Thortnons of the league
Darroll Powe 28 5-11 201 - sucks Mats Zuccarello 25 5-7 179 - might be toughest guy on the team
Michael Del Zotto 23 6-0 195 - no defense, no offense
Dan Girardi 29 6-2 203 - good player doesn't scare forwards
Aaron Johnson 30 6-2 211 - waste of a contract
Ryan McDonagh 24 6-1 213 - best player outside of Hank, again wont scare anyone
John Moore 22 6-3 214 -very good player...wont scare anyone
Marc Staal 26 6-4 207 - very good player - wont scare anyone Anton Stralman 26 5-11 190 - good player - wont scare anyone

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07-08-2013, 11:48 AM
  #327
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
I don't see many, if any, people calling for an enforcer.
Exactly. No one here is saying we need goons. What people are saying is we need guys who are tough to play against and can contribute on the scoresheet as well. There is one legit first liner on this team and that's Nash, we sure as hell ain't gonna out skill teams going into next season, that is why I and many others are advocating bringing in guys who play with an edge.

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07-08-2013, 11:48 AM
  #328
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Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
The Rangers definitely aren't the softest team, but once again, similar to this past season, I am not sure what the identity of this team is supposed to be.

There's not really a lot of toughness up and down the lineup, nor is there a lot of skill. If they are scaring any opponents, it will be due to Lundqvist in net - the team isn't physically intimidating and they don't have enough firepower up front to strike fear in opposing defensemen or goaltenders.
this is where i totally 100% agree with you.


WHAT IS OUR IDENTITY!

People want to be tougher, sure, thats fine, but we dont have the players to do that, and i completely disagree that we are "soft".

What we are is a jack of all trades, great at nothing, good at everything.

Best goalie in the world, elite defense, but thats it.

not a fast team

not a skilled team

not a rough team

not a cycle team

not a transition team

we can do all of these things, but we cant do any of them with the best at their trade.

Some people say we're too soft to go toe to toe with the big mean teams

Some people say we aren't skilled enough to go toe to toe with the super skilled teams

Some people say we aren't fast enough to go toe to toe with the super fast teams.

This is 100% true.

But, we arent a slow team. we aren't a talentless team. we arent a soft team.

What we are, is an above average, young team that needs everything to fall into place to win a cup.

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07-08-2013, 11:48 AM
  #329
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I don't really understand the "big bad Bruins" mantra that's tossed around here. We've played quite well against them over the last couple years and rarely have I watched a game between us and them where we were seriously out muscled.

Sure, this team is missing a Lucic or Bickell in the forward group, but I don't think either of those players is going to fix anything. Toughness is a team concept. It's not something you sprinkle in as a garnish. Building a team that has grit throughout the lineup is tough to do, which is why so few teams actually have it.

I think this team needs an identity, but I don't think it's going to be based around sandpaper. We have an elite goalie, very good defense with above average mobility, and a forward group that really can't dominate in the offensive zone. To me, that screams "transition offense" more than anything else. So, in that way, maybe we can emulate Boston.

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07-08-2013, 11:51 AM
  #330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Callagraves View Post
The role of the enforcer is dead, boys. And good riddance.
I think the following players will disagree with you:

B.J. Crombeen
Colton Orr
Jared Boll
Frazer McLaren
George Parros
Shawn Thornton
Ryan Reaves
John Scott
Kevin Westgarth
Tom Sesito
Paul Bissonnette
Krys Barch
Patrick Bordeleau - my favorite guy in this role
Tanner Glass
Brandon Bollig
Matt Kassian
Mike Rupp
Eric Boulton
Matt Carkner

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07-08-2013, 11:57 AM
  #331
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
I don't see many, if any, people calling for an enforcer.
Not openly, but the group that's arguing to trade for or sign larger players for "toughness" is composed of the same names that always seem to be advocating a new Rangers Goon of the Week. This discussion absolutely reeks of that argument. It seems to me it's just going under a different name.

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Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
Yep and so move on and stop using this line every time people point out that you and others don't see the value of tough hockey players If Lucic was a Rangers his ugly mug would be on billboards city wide as a hero
1. No it wouldn't. The City doesn't care THAT much about hockey.

2.Oh my god, can we get off of Lucic? The guy is an anomaly. A 30/30 player who can hit like he does, take a hit like he does, AND drop the gloves is beyond rare. He's Boston's version of Adam Graves.

Throwing a bunch of tough guys out on the ice doesn't make a team tough to play against. It's a style. Finishing every check, getting into scrums if you have to. We hear over and over, oh "No one's scared of Girardi/Callahan/Staal/XYZ". Guess what, there aren't many, if any available players who can legitimately scare a professional hockey player, playing at the highest level, and STILL PLAY THE GAME.

There's nothing wrong with the Bruins. They have a great, solid team, full of really tough, skilled guys. But we just watched the Blackhawks not only beat them with skill, but play a game that was JUST as tough, and never backed down an inch from them.

We've seen the Rangers try to out work teams. Grind it out. Manufacture offense. And all you heard was complaining. Hell, I LOVED the "blue collar hockey" mantra going on. Out work, out work, out work, that's all you heard. And then our offense horses dried up. We sacrificed some of those hard working players for more skilled ones. Torts couldn't seem to recapture that insane work ethic, and the team came out noticeably BLAH. So now we're going to see something else tried. They need an identity. That falls on the coach, and the leadership. But going out and trying left and right to find our "perfect powerforward" isn't going to bring the team any closer to a team concept.

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07-08-2013, 11:58 AM
  #332
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Thanks for pinpointing 2015 as his make or break season. At least you took a stand.

I disagree, but neither of us can be sure we are right.
look at MTL, Jarred Tinordi, drafted 12 spots below McIlrath is a lock to make that stacked defense. McIlrath still needs development time.

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07-08-2013, 12:02 PM
  #333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
I think the following players will disagree with you:

B.J. Crombeen
Colton Orr
Jared Boll
Frazer McLaren
George Parros
Shawn Thornton
Ryan Reaves
John Scott
Kevin Westgarth
Tom Sesito
Paul Bissonnette
Krys Barch
Patrick Bordeleau - my favorite guy in this role
Tanner Glass
Brandon Bollig
Matt Kassian
Mike Rupp
Eric Boulton
Matt Carkner
Wouldn't call a lot of those guys pure enforcers. Westgarth, Biss, Parros, yeah. Carkner, Crombeen, Rupp, Thornton - either fourth line utilitarians who CAN fight or take a shift as a defenseman who CAN fight.

I'd like Thornton on our fourth line even if he never dropped the gloves. Not as much, but still would.

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07-08-2013, 12:08 PM
  #334
NYR Viper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
look at MTL, Jarred Tinordi, drafted 12 spots below McIlrath is a lock to make that stacked defense. McIlrath still needs development time.
Cam Fowler has been int he NHL as well. Burmistrov just signed in the KHL. What's your point? You don't like McIlrath?

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07-08-2013, 12:19 PM
  #335
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
Cam Fowler has been int he NHL as well. Burmistrov just signed in the KHL. What's your point? You don't like McIlrath?
I never said anywhere I was unhappy with McIlrath or his progress. Just pointing out that a similar dman is already on a NHL roster. How long do we wait for McIlrath?

There is nothing wrong with Fowler as far as I'm concerned. Same with Burmistrov who is a solid checking center. Nino on the other hand was rushed.

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07-08-2013, 12:23 PM
  #336
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
I think the following players will disagree with you:

B.J. Crombeen-next to useless
Colton Orr-completely useless
Jared Boll- actually used to put up decent 4th line numbers
Frazer McLaren- LOL. He's never played a season without being demoted
George Parros Maybe it's just the mustache, but I love Parros. He's a good 4th line player
Shawn Thornton As we've seen, does alot more than fight.
Ryan Reaves- Yeah, he has an impact
John Scott Easily the worst. 4 teams in 5 years. No one really wants him. Just ask Buffalo how much he helped against Boston
Kevin Westgarth-For some reason, despite being SO useful, the Kings didn't have him play a single game during their entire playoff run last year
Tom Sesito- Dirty cheap shotting scum. As Richards said, "It's like fantasy camp for you. You're insignificant out here"
Paul Bissonnette-I want to leave Biznasty alone for his twitter, but, seriously? The guy is a healthy scratch more often than not.
Krys Barch- I've only seen him in NJ, and, well, he was pretty useless last year
Patrick Bordeleau - honestly, never seen the kid play. won't say anything
Tanner Glass-again, tends to be scratched most of the time
Brandon Bollig- 1 point in his entire career? Wasn't he the guy who's giveaway cost Chicago game 2? VIDEO BELOW
Matt Kassian-really? Matt 15 games in the nhl Kassian?
Mike Rupp- Rupper used to be a good player. 10-20 points, ton of hits, good fights. not anymore
Eric Boulton- another Atlantic boy. And possibly the least ineffective player I've ever seen
Matt Carkner-Another guy who used to able to play. But not many teams want a fighting only Dman. Doesn't make much sense

As promised, what a player like Bollig gets you!


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Old
07-08-2013, 12:33 PM
  #337
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
Brian Boyle 28 6-7 244 - can't fight but plays a hard game
Derick Brassard 25 6-1 202 - has balls but wont scare anyone Micheal Haley 27 5-10 204 - feisty guy will have to fight outside of his weight class
Dominic Moore 32 6-0 195 - fiesty but wont scare anyone Brad Richards 33 6-0 196 -should not be on this team Derek Stepan 23 6-0 196 - great player..
Carl Hagelin 24 6-0 186 - fast player..
Chris Kreider 22 6-3 226 - great open ice hitter but also gets crushed a lot Rick Nash 29 6-4 213 - soft for a player his size.
Benoit Pouliot 26 6-3 199 - should be tougher but isn't Taylor Pyatt 31 6-4 230 99 - same as above
Arron Asham 35 5-11 205 - big balls for Hartford
Ryan Callahan 28 5-11 190 - heart of a lion...can't continue to play his game if he want to survive
Derek Dorsett 26 6-0 192 - will get killed fighting the Thortnons of the league
Darroll Powe 28 5-11 201 - sucks Mats Zuccarello 25 5-7 179 - might be toughest guy on the team
Michael Del Zotto 23 6-0 195 - no defense, no offense
Dan Girardi 29 6-2 203 - good player doesn't scare forwards
Aaron Johnson 30 6-2 211 - waste of a contract
Ryan McDonagh 24 6-1 213 - best player outside of Hank, again wont scare anyone
John Moore 22 6-3 214 -very good player...wont scare anyone
Marc Staal 26 6-4 207 - very good player - wont scare anyone Anton Stralman 26 5-11 190 - good player - wont scare anyone
Instead of having a team full of players that "wont scare anyone" as you put it, I'd rather have a team full of players that isnt scared or anyone....and I think thats how most of the NHL works. No need for dinosaurs anymore.

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Old
07-08-2013, 12:34 PM
  #338
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Yeah, a Tom Sestito REALLY has the skill players shaking

Brad Richards, probably the softest guy on the team doesn't even give a ****.


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07-08-2013, 12:40 PM
  #339
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
I never said anywhere I was unhappy with McIlrath or his progress. Just pointing out that a similar dman is already on a NHL roster. How long do we wait for McIlrath?

There is nothing wrong with Fowler as far as I'm concerned. Same with Burmistrov who is a solid checking center. Nino on the other hand was rushed.
You wait until he's ready for some games in the NHL. Pretty cut and dry.

Remember when people were panning St Louis because Bogosian and Myers beat Pietrangelo to the NHL? It's not a race. Comparing a players development to any other player is fools work.

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07-08-2013, 12:43 PM
  #340
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
You wait until he's ready for some games in the NHL. Pretty cut and dry.

Remember when people were panning St Louis because Bogosian and Myers beat Pietrangelo to the NHL? It's not a race. Comparing a players development to any other player is fools work.
True.

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07-08-2013, 01:01 PM
  #341
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Originally Posted by Callagraves View Post
Not openly, but the group that's arguing to trade for or sign larger players for "toughness" is composed of the same names that always seem to be advocating a new Rangers Goon of the Week. This discussion absolutely reeks of that argument. It seems to me it's just going under a different name.



1. No it wouldn't. The City doesn't care THAT much about hockey.

2.Oh my god, can we get off of Lucic? The guy is an anomaly. A 30/30 player who can hit like he does, take a hit like he does, AND drop the gloves is beyond rare. He's Boston's version of Adam Graves. Throwing a bunch of tough guys out on the ice doesn't make a team tough to play against. It's a style. Finishing every check, getting into scrums if you have to. We hear over and over, oh "No one's scared of Girardi/Callahan/Staal/XYZ". Guess what, there aren't many, if any available players who can legitimately scare a professional hockey player, playing at the highest level, and STILL PLAY THE GAME.

There's nothing wrong with the Bruins. They have a great, solid team, full of really tough, skilled guys. But we just watched the Blackhawks not only beat them with skill, but play a game that was JUST as tough, and never backed down an inch from them.

We've seen the Rangers try to out work teams. Grind it out. Manufacture offense. And all you heard was complaining. Hell, I LOVED the "blue collar hockey" mantra going on. Out work, out work, out work, that's all you heard. And then our offense horses dried up. We sacrificed some of those hard working players for more skilled ones. Torts couldn't seem to recapture that insane work ethic, and the team came out noticeably BLAH. So now we're going to see something else tried. They need an identity. That falls on the coach, and the leadership. But going out and trying left and right to find our "perfect powerforward" isn't going to bring the team any closer to a team concept.
he is an anomaly because we never draft guys like that...Lucic was the 50th pick, we picked Bobby ****ing Sanguinetti with the 21st pick.

same draft, which was 2006...we pick Ryan Hiller in 3rd round...pass on Tom Sesisto.
4th round...pick David Kveton, Matt Beleskey goes 8 picks later.
5th round...pick Tomas Zaborsky, pass on Pavel Valenteko
6th round...pick Eric Hunter, pass on Derek Dorsett.

Every round we went skill and bypassed grit...sound familiar

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07-08-2013, 01:07 PM
  #342
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
he is an anomaly because we never draft guys like that...Lucic was the 50th pick, we picked Bobby ****ing Sanguinetti with the 21st pick.

same draft, which was 2006...we pick Ryan Hiller in 3rd round...pass on Tom Sesisto.
4th round...pick David Kveton, Matt Beleskey goes 8 picks later.
5th round...pick Tomas Zaborsky, pass on Pavel Valenteko
6th round...pick Eric Hunter, pass on Derek Dorsett.

Every round we went skill and bypassed grit...sound familiar
You can look at any busts like that. Pick 51 2008 draft, we pick Derek Stepan. There are 50 grinder busts that went after him. It's just such a ridiculous way of looking at it.

You're really pissed we passed on players like Sestito and Valentenko (who we had and couldn't crack an NHL roster).

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07-08-2013, 01:17 PM
  #343
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
he is an anomaly because we never draft guys like that...Lucic was the 50th pick, we picked Bobby ****ing Sanguinetti with the 21st pick.

same draft, which was 2006...we pick Ryan Hiller in 3rd round...pass on Tom Sesisto.
4th round...pick David Kveton, Matt Beleskey goes 8 picks later.
5th round...pick Tomas Zaborsky, pass on Pavel Valenteko
6th round...pick Eric Hunter, pass on Derek Dorsett.

Every round we went skill and bypassed grit...sound familiar
No, he's an anomaly for the entire league.

And If i had to guess, we draft that way because physical role players can be had for cheap if not for nothing. Offensive skill player carry a premium.

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07-08-2013, 01:35 PM
  #344
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Yeah, I'm really sad that we couldn't draft Tom Sestito. His 3 NHL points would do wonders for this team. Oh, what could have been!

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07-08-2013, 01:38 PM
  #345
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Originally Posted by Callagraves View Post
Not openly, but the group that's arguing to trade for or sign larger players for "toughness" is composed of the same names that always seem to be advocating a new Rangers Goon of the Week. This discussion absolutely reeks of that argument. It seems to me it's just going under a different name.



1. No it wouldn't. The City doesn't care THAT much about hockey.

2.Oh my god, can we get off of Lucic? The guy is an anomaly. A 30/30 player who can hit like he does, take a hit like he does, AND drop the gloves is beyond rare. He's Boston's version of Adam Graves.

Throwing a bunch of tough guys out on the ice doesn't make a team tough to play against. It's a style. Finishing every check, getting into scrums if you have to. We hear over and over, oh "No one's scared of Girardi/Callahan/Staal/XYZ". Guess what, there aren't many, if any available players who can legitimately scare a professional hockey player, playing at the highest level, and STILL PLAY THE GAME.

There's nothing wrong with the Bruins. They have a great, solid team, full of really tough, skilled guys. But we just watched the Blackhawks not only beat them with skill, but play a game that was JUST as tough, and never backed down an inch from them.

We've seen the Rangers try to out work teams. Grind it out. Manufacture offense. And all you heard was complaining. Hell, I LOVED the "blue collar hockey" mantra going on. Out work, out work, out work, that's all you heard. And then our offense horses dried up. We sacrificed some of those hard working players for more skilled ones. Torts couldn't seem to recapture that insane work ethic, and the team came out noticeably BLAH. So now we're going to see something else tried. They need an identity. That falls on the coach, and the leadership. But going out and trying left and right to find our "perfect powerforward" isn't going to bring the team any closer to a team concept.
Some of those people yes, but sure as hell isn't me or the whole group.

We got rid of Torts because we don't want to do those hard working things anymore. ***** Nash and company want to just loaf around in the neutral zone waiting for a pass from the D. I should say for me, I have no problems with back end. They're not soft. The forwards on the other hand? Probably the softest group of forwards in the league. We saw that with the *****ing that obviously came from them that got torts fired.

Nash, Hags, MZA, Brass, Richards, Pyatt are all particularly soft.
Step, Kreider, Poul are average.
Cally, Boyle, Moore, Dorsett play with an edge.

So that as a numbers game already looks soft. More soft guys than anything else. But then when you start looking at the TOI guys are going to be getting and it gets real scary for us. Three of the four guys who play with an edge are fourth line guys. At least four of the soft guys are top six guys, one clearly top line. That's easy for other teams to play against, especially since these soft "skill" guys aren't all that skilled.

So that's where my problem resides. I can accept that we're not going to be the most skilled team, we haven't tanked for half a decade or more. But that means you have to play with an edge, and we can't right now because too many of our guys either refuse (Nash amongst others) or can't (MZA amongst others) or a little of both

And Sather proved he's not looking for them to play with an edge by caving to the weak's demands and firing a guy who demanded your effort for a guy who is used to coddling highly skilled guys. AV used to barely ever have the Sedins play in their own zone. This is only going to make our soft players bad habits worse.

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07-08-2013, 01:52 PM
  #346
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We just have to get over the fact that this team is soft, Sather won't do anything about it.

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07-08-2013, 01:55 PM
  #347
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Originally Posted by Josh3217 View Post
We just have to get over the fact that this team is soft, Sather won't do anything about it.
What would you like him to do exactly? Throw money at (yet another) overaged goon?

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07-08-2013, 01:55 PM
  #348
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Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen View Post
Some of those people yes, but sure as hell isn't me or the whole group.

We got rid of Torts because we don't want to do those hard working things anymore. ***** Nash and company want to just loaf around in the neutral zone waiting for a pass from the D. I should say for me, I have no problems with back end. They're not soft. The forwards on the other hand? Probably the softest group of forwards in the league. We saw that with the *****ing that obviously came from them that got torts fired.

Nash, Hags, MZA, Brass, Richards, Pyatt are all particularly soft.
Step, Kreider, Poul are average.
Cally, Boyle, Moore, Dorsett play with an edge.

So that as a numbers game already looks soft. More soft guys than anything else. But then when you start looking at the TOI guys are going to be getting and it gets real scary for us. Three of the four guys who play with an edge are fourth line guys. At least four of the soft guys are top six guys, one clearly top line. That's easy for other teams to play against, especially since these soft "skill" guys aren't all that skilled.

So that's where my problem resides. I can accept that we're not going to be the most skilled team, we haven't tanked for half a decade or more. But that means you have to play with an edge, and we can't right now because too many of our guys either refuse (Nash amongst others) or can't (MZA amongst others) or a little of both

And Sather proved he's not looking for them to play with an edge by caving to the weak's demands and firing a guy who demanded your effort for a guy who is used to coddling highly skilled guys. AV used to barely ever have the Sedins play in their own zone. This is only going to make our soft players bad habits worse.
I'm going to dispute that most of the players you mentioned are soft. Hags doesn't lay massive hits, but he's good on the boards, and he hits early and often.

Zucc throws the body. It sure as hell doesn't do much, but he, again, doesn't back down. He's one of the few players I'll say is too small to do some damage. But he's a firey little hobbit.

Pyatt, man I don't ****ing know with this guy. He was really good for us in the playoffs. Like, he played WELL. If he does that full time, I'd keep him. He destroyed OV at one point, not an easy thing to do.

Step and Kreider are average at the moment. Stepan gets more and more physical every year. I was very happy. Kreider, again, we don't really know. He doesn't engage, and then he goes out there and terrorizes the Bruins D. I don't know what to expect.

Nash is not soft. He's not overly physical, if that's what you mean, but there's a difference. We saw him lay hits when he first came here, but that stopped in favor of focusing on offense. Because that's what Nash was brought to do, to score, score, and score again.

Now, CONCUSSED Rick Nash is soft. Because, you know, his brain had slammed against the inside of his skull a few times.

Now, You know I'm a Torts fan. I liked the attitude he brought, I liked the accountability, the hard work, the discipline. I wouldn't have fired him. I'm also not furious about it, because there's a solid chance that he's no longer the right coach for the team. I think he's a very good coach who had a very, very bad season. I think Richards and Gaborik forgetting how to hockey KILLED us. Gaborik, Richards, Nash, Hagelin, Callahan, Stepan. That top 6 should KILL. But, it didn't. I'm not sure that had anything to do with Torts, but he didn't mitigate it very well.

I think you're taking his firing a little hard, and blaming it on Rick Nash is illogical. Sather fired him, Sather has a different image for the team. I want a team with skilled players who are willing to play tough. I'm HOPING we're moving in that direction

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07-08-2013, 01:55 PM
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Yeah, I'm really sad that we couldn't draft Tom Sestito. His 3 NHL points would do wonders for this team. Oh, what could have been!
Not a day goes by when I don't say to myself, "You what this team is missing? A Tom Sestito."

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07-08-2013, 02:02 PM
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Not a day goes by when I don't say to myself, "You what this team is missing? A Tom Sestito."
Boston drafted Marchand in the third round of 06, 14 spots before Sestito. I think they might want to take that pick back, Sestito would be the missing piece to another Cup win!

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