HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Buffalo Sabres
Notices

Riley Boychuk to NJD for Henrik Tallinder

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-08-2013, 12:47 PM
  #351
struckbyaparkedcar
Zemgus Da Gawd
 
struckbyaparkedcar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Upstate NY
Country: Cote DIvoire
Posts: 10,258
vCash: 500
Tallinder was markedly worse than Sekera as a Devil, especially excluding this year, which was his best defensive season in New Jersey (albeit in the most sheltered role of his career).

struckbyaparkedcar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2013, 12:47 PM
  #352
SundherDome
Jhonas is an Ewok
 
SundherDome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Minneapolis
Country: United States
Posts: 1,166
vCash: 500
Just curious ..since we can retain salary ..is there any potential way to trade gerbes buyout this year and next year to aquire a Tallinder type contract..I searched the cba and found nothing.

SundherDome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2013, 12:49 PM
  #353
Chainshot
Global Moderator
Give 'em Enough Rope
 
Chainshot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Costa Rica
Country: Costa Rica
Posts: 55,948
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanekTheMvp View Post
Just curious ..since we can retain salary ..is there any potential way to trade gerbes buyout this year and next year to aquire a Tallinder type contract..I searched the cba and found nothing.
No, Gerbe is simply gone.

__________________
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. - Aristotle
Chainshot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2013, 01:05 PM
  #354
WhoIsJimBob
Suffering
 
WhoIsJimBob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Rochester, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 14,654
vCash: 500
This is a deal which really doesn't have much downside since the Sabres gave up the closest thing to a used puck bag as you can get.

Best case is that Tallinder comes in, looks like he did the last time he was a Sabre and Tyler Myers looks like he did as a rookie.

Worst case is that Tallinder is so bad that guys like Risto and Rudy and McNabb look light years better than him and he ends up a vet in Rochester ala Pardy last year.

WhoIsJimBob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2013, 01:26 PM
  #355
vcv
Moderator
Deal with it
 
vcv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Williamsville, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 13,211
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to vcv
Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
Better? No. Younger and less injured. Yes. Maybe Hank is too old and his game will never come back, but before last season, when he was healthy, I would take Hank over Sekera every single day.
This isn't before last season anymore. Hank is on the downswing of his career and Sekera is in his prime.

I still don't understand your argument. I guess that Tallinder + Early 2nd > Sekera? Which I think you are dead wrong on it, but whatever.

vcv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2013, 01:30 PM
  #356
SundherDome
Jhonas is an Ewok
 
SundherDome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Minneapolis
Country: United States
Posts: 1,166
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
No, Gerbe is simply gone.
Ahh ..thank you I was hoping for a mccormick and gerbe buyout salary trade for a cap dump and pick. Nvm then

SundherDome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2013, 01:32 PM
  #357
SundherDome
Jhonas is an Ewok
 
SundherDome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Minneapolis
Country: United States
Posts: 1,166
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LegomyLeggio View Post
This is a deal which really doesn't have much downside since the Sabres gave up the closest thing to a used puck bag as you can get.

Best case is that Tallinder comes in, looks like he did the last time he was a Sabre and Tyler Myers looks like he did as a rookie.

Worst case is that Tallinder is so bad that guys like Risto and Rudy and McNabb look light years better than him and he ends up a vet in Rochester ala Pardy last year.
Gunna change your handle now ?

SundherDome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2013, 01:44 PM
  #358
Jeremy2020
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Austin, TX
Country: United States
Posts: 1,506
vCash: 500
Can't believe they gave up Chad Rinehart to get Hank back.

Jeremy2020 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2013, 01:46 PM
  #359
stokes84
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Charleston, SC
Country: United States
Posts: 6,101
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to stokes84
Quote:
Originally Posted by vcv View Post
This isn't before last season anymore. Hank is on the downswing of his career and Sekera is in his prime.

I still don't understand your argument. I guess that Tallinder + Early 2nd > Sekera? Which I think you are dead wrong on it, but whatever.
Tallinder + McBain + 2nd is >>>>> Sekera. IMO, Rutherford's asset management is questionable. That's all. We've been through all of the retorts and you can feel however you want to feel about it. Personally, if I were in Rutherford's shoes and paid a good price to get Sekera when I could have waited and gotten Hank for virtually nothing, I think I'd mis-played my hand. Time will tell and its just my opinion.

stokes84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2013, 01:50 PM
  #360
gallagt01
Registered User
 
gallagt01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sloan
Posts: 8,254
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
Tallinder + McBain + 2nd is >>>>> Sekera. IMO, Rutherford's asset management is questionable. That's all. We've been through all of the retorts and you can feel however you want to feel about it. Personally, if I were in Rutherford's shoes and paid a good price to get Sekera when I could have waited and gotten Hank for virtually nothing, I think I'd mis-played my hand. Time will tell and its just my opinion.
Not for a team trying to win now.

Sekera comes on the cheap for two more years and is better than both Tallinder and McBain (and it's not close). Rutherford improved his team.

gallagt01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2013, 01:54 PM
  #361
Tim Murray
HoF Turd Shiner
 
Tim Murray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 3,895
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy2020 View Post
Can't believe they gave up Chad Rinehart to get Hank back.
Ex-Bills left guard Chad Rinehart? 6.5D at best. Dude is 300+lbs, he's a mess on skates. I wish him luck in Jersey.

Tim Murray is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2013, 01:59 PM
  #362
dotcommunism
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,131
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
Tallinder + McBain + 2nd is >>>>> Sekera.
Based on what, other than your gut? Do you have any even remotely objective evidence to back up this feeing at all? Sorry, but you seem completely out to lunch on this.

dotcommunism is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2013, 02:23 PM
  #363
stokes84
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Charleston, SC
Country: United States
Posts: 6,101
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to stokes84
Quote:
Originally Posted by dotcommunism View Post
Based on what, other than your gut? Do you have any even remotely objective evidence to back up this feeing at all? Sorry, but you seem completely out to lunch on this.
So your telling me one Sekera is better than two NHL top 6 defensemen and a high 2nd in the deepest draft in memory? Who's out to lunch here?

stokes84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2013, 02:26 PM
  #364
struckbyaparkedcar
Zemgus Da Gawd
 
struckbyaparkedcar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Upstate NY
Country: Cote DIvoire
Posts: 10,258
vCash: 500
McBain isn't a top six defenseman, Tallinder's been in-and-out of the lineup with a huge drop-off potential because of his age and blood clot business.

Sekera is the much, much, much more sure thing.

struckbyaparkedcar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2013, 02:45 PM
  #365
dotcommunism
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,131
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
So your telling me one Sekera is better than two NHL top 6 defensemen and a high 2nd in the deepest draft in memory? Who's out to lunch here?
Sekera is a top 4 defenseman. Tallinder is an old declining fringe top 6 defenseman who's making as much in salary this season as Sekera is over the next two. He's absolutely no more than a cap dump which is why the Devils traded him for Riley Boychuk, who's a complete non-entity as far as being an NHL asset goes. McBain is a fringe NHL defenseman who has some marginal value as a reclamation project. The high 2nd and Sekera are the only assets with any meaningful value at all in this equation.

dotcommunism is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2013, 02:52 PM
  #366
stokes84
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Charleston, SC
Country: United States
Posts: 6,101
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to stokes84
Quote:
Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
McBain isn't a top six defenseman, Tallinder's been in-and-out of the lineup with a huge drop-off potential because of his age and blood clot business.

Sekera is the much, much, much more sure thing.
McBain's last three seasons:

76GP 19:06 ATOI
76GP 19:48 ATOI
40GP 18:25 ATOI

That's not a top 6 defenseman?

Up until last year, Hank had been playing top 4 minutes. Obviously he fell out of favor last year for various reasons, mainly that they wanted the young guys to play, but when he played he was effective.

stokes84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2013, 02:54 PM
  #367
joshjull
Moderator
 
joshjull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hamburg,NY
Country: United States
Posts: 31,258
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
So your telling me one Sekera is better than two NHL top 6 defensemen and a high 2nd in the deepest draft in memory? Who's out to lunch here?
Again, what the hell does Tallinder have to do with Sekera?

joshjull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2013, 03:02 PM
  #368
Zman5778
Registered User
 
Zman5778's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: York, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 3,174
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Zman5778 Send a message via MSN to Zman5778 Send a message via Yahoo to Zman5778
Quote:
Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
McBain isn't a top six defenseman
He may have disappointed last year, but you don't get nearly 20 min in ice time your first 3 years and 18 your 4th if you aren't a top 6 defenseman.

McBain is most certainly a top 6er.....the question is -- can he become more than a third pairing QB PP or can he round his game and become a consistent 20 min top 4 guy?

Zman5778 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2013, 03:16 PM
  #369
stokes84
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Charleston, SC
Country: United States
Posts: 6,101
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to stokes84
Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
Again, what the hell does Tallinder have to do with Sekera?
Carolina could've had him for free instead of spending assets on Sekera, as I've said numerous times in this thread was my only point, and that IMO it was poor asset management by Rutherford, IMO. Why is this so hard?

Now someone is going to quote this and tell me why Sekera is better than Tallinder. And around and around we go.

stokes84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2013, 03:21 PM
  #370
HockeyH3aven
#Flynnsanity
 
HockeyH3aven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Buffalo NY
Country: United States
Posts: 6,178
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
Carolina could've had him for free instead of spending assets on Sekera, as I've said numerous times in this thread was my only point, and that IMO it was poor asset management by Rutherford, IMO. Why is this so hard?

Now someone is going to quote this and tell me why Sekera is better than Tallinder. And around and around we go.
Why exactly does that not matter? Sekera is better and younger and therefore had more trade value. It's astronomically simple to understand. Better is better, younger is better, better + younger is much better which = much more value

HockeyH3aven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2013, 03:22 PM
  #371
Chainshot
Global Moderator
Give 'em Enough Rope
 
Chainshot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Costa Rica
Country: Costa Rica
Posts: 55,948
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
Carolina could've had him for free instead of spending assets on Sekera, as I've said numerous times in this thread was my only point, and that IMO it was poor asset management by Rutherford, IMO. Why is this so hard?

Now someone is going to quote this and tell me why Sekera is better than Tallinder. And around and around we go.
"Free" relative only to hockey related assets. $2,425,000 more in salary to retain McBain and bring in Tallinder, who is clearly not a top 4 any more. Sekera is a top 4 and is less expensive.

Feel free to run it past Cane fans if you think they feel they got the wrong end of the deal by adding Tallinder into the equation. They probably realize that they got the better player now and in the foreseeable future for their top four rather than spending more money on a lesser player.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyH3aven View Post
Why exactly does that not matter? Sekera is better and younger and therefore had more trade value. It's astronomically simple to understand. Better is better, younger is better, better + younger is much better which = much more value
You also forgot cheaper is better.

Chainshot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2013, 03:31 PM
  #372
Rob Paxon
Z E M G U S
 
Rob Paxon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: corfu, ny
Country: United States
Posts: 14,093
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Rob Paxon
Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
So your telling me one Sekera is better than two NHL top 6 defensemen and a high 2nd in the deepest draft in memory? Who's out to lunch here?
McBain and Tallinder are both bottom pair guys at this point. Any team would take Sekera over them if their goal is to win. Look, I love the moves from our perspective based on where we're at, but it's really all about Compher and then filling some roster spots in the short term. Sekera is easily a more valuable player than McBain and Tallinder combined at this point.

Rob Paxon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2013, 03:32 PM
  #373
vcv
Moderator
Deal with it
 
vcv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Williamsville, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 13,211
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to vcv
Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
Carolina could've had him for free instead of spending assets on Sekera, as I've said numerous times in this thread was my only point, and that IMO it was poor asset management by Rutherford, IMO. Why is this so hard?

Now someone is going to quote this and tell me why Sekera is better than Tallinder. And around and around we go.
Purely from a "value" standpoint, you can make an argument that Tallinder + McBain + 2nd > Sekera.

However, looking at it realistically, Carolina needed a top-4 D-man and got that. Tallinder and McBain don't matter because they were not and would not be top-4 D-men. The 2nd round pick COULD be, and even then it might take time.

Carolina got exactly what it wanted, a sure-fire top-4 guy on a great contract.

vcv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2013, 03:43 PM
  #374
dotcommunism
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,131
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vcv View Post
Purely from a "value" standpoint, you can make an argument that Tallinder + McBain + 2nd > Sekera.
I feel like this is the same concept of "value" that crops up in video games where if you pile enough middling assets together you can trade them for a single significantly better asset.

dotcommunism is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2013, 04:08 PM
  #375
Rob Paxon
Z E M G U S
 
Rob Paxon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: corfu, ny
Country: United States
Posts: 14,093
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Rob Paxon
Quote:
Originally Posted by dotcommunism View Post
I feel like this is the same concept of "value" that crops up in video games where if you pile enough middling assets together you can trade them for a single significantly better asset.
Hey, don't knock it. Using this strategy I was able to acquire the first 14 picks in the draft so I could make sure all this year's top prospects went to the teams that really drafted them.

Rob Paxon is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:04 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.