HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Chris Higgins & Kyle Chipchura.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-26-2006, 03:48 PM
  #1
GSK*
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Uzbekistan
Country: Uzbekistan
Posts: 2,909
vCash: 500
Chris Higgins & Kyle Chipchura.

First of all, Chris Higgins was drafted like a potential good 2-way foward with a good hockey sense. His offensive upside was "above-average"

I want to know, can we say right now Higgins is more then above-average ? I think 23 goals at rookie season is very great, espacially the 16 in the second half (2nd in the NHL), now this year he's PPG and I really think Higgins can get 35-30-65 season...

Now Chipchura is like Higgins a little bit... Both great leader (Higgins will be C first I think), they're both good in there own zone, so 2-way players, so far he got 3pts in 8games in the AHL.

isDid you think Chipchura can develop h offensive upside and show it like Higginds have did last season and this season.

So I think we all agree Higgins have the potential to 35 goals, may be 40 at his best and arround 70-80pts.

Did you think Chipchura can use 100% of his offensive skillz this year...Did 20 goals and 50 points are possible for Chipchura in the AHL ?

GSK* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-26-2006, 03:51 PM
  #2
Joey
Registered User
 
Joey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,088
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Joey
Quote:
Originally Posted by GSK View Post
First of all, Chris Higgins was drafted like a potential good 2-way foward with a good hockey sense. His offensive upside was "above-average"

I want to know, can we say right now Higgins is more then above-average ? I think 23 goals at rookie season is very great, espacially the 16 in the second half (2nd in the NHL), now this year he's PPG and I really think Higgins can get 35-30-65 season...

Now Chipchura is like Higgins a little bit... Both great leader (Higgins will be C first I think), they're both good in there own zone, so 2-way players, so far he got 3pts in 8games in the AHL.

isDid you think Chipchura can develop h offensive upside and show it like Higginds have did last season and this season.

So I think we all agree Higgins have the potential to 35 goals, may be 40 at his best and arround 70-80pts.

Did you think Chipchura can use 100% of his offensive skillz this year...Did 20 goals and 50 points are possible for Chipchura in the AHL ?


I think you're looking at last years statsheet for Chipchura, he has 5 points in 6 games so far this year. And as for the comparison, Higgins is a LOT faster, so that is one major difference between the two. Though I do see 45-50 points as a clear possibility this year for Chip

Joey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-26-2006, 03:53 PM
  #3
Mike8
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 11,269
vCash: 500
No, not similar.

The posters on this forum that actually saw Higgins play knew he had a good shot and some real offensive upside.

Chipchura, too, is underrated offensively in the sense that many seem to believe he's exclusively a defensive forward, who's slow and inept offensively. But that's where the comparisons end, really.

Chipchura is more of a fundamentals-driven forward. He'll focus on the intangibles first and foremost. Higgins, despite being strong defensively, has always been in a position on his club where he was relied upon for offense. He was always a go-to-guy.

Chipchura's shot isn't great. He doesn't have Higgins' speed, by any stretch of the imagination. Where I think his offense is underrated is his passing ability. He's good when it comes to distributing the puck, using his size to create room for himself and dishing the puck out in the offensive zone with an opponent on his back.

I hope to see him develop into a 40-point guy, but I really don't think he has the offensive capabilities to do much more than that.

Mike8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-26-2006, 04:02 PM
  #4
fredez
Registered User
 
fredez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,413
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
Chipchura's shot isn't great. He doesn't have Higgins' speed, by any stretch of the imagination. Where I think his offense is underrated is his passing ability. He's good when it comes to distributing the puck, using his size to create room for himself and dishing the puck out in the offensive zone with an opponent on his back.
I also think that one of Chipchura's underrated facet is his set of hands. In a lot of ways he is like Bonk (I personnally like Bonk by the way) but I think he has more of an edge (character, leadership, grit) to his game than Bonk.

I agree with you that his upside is around 40-50 points too.

fredez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-26-2006, 04:11 PM
  #5
GSK*
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Uzbekistan
Country: Uzbekistan
Posts: 2,909
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey View Post
I think you're looking at last years statsheet for Chipchura, he has 5 points in 6 games so far this year. And as for the comparison, Higgins is a LOT faster, so that is one major difference between the two. Though I do see 45-50 points as a clear possibility this year for Chip
My bad sorry, didn't look at the right statsheet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
No, not similar.

The posters on this forum that actually saw Higgins play knew he had a good shot and some real offensive upside.

Chipchura, too, is underrated offensively in the sense that many seem to believe he's exclusively a defensive forward, who's slow and inept offensively. But that's where the comparisons end, really.

Chipchura is more of a fundamentals-driven forward. He'll focus on the intangibles first and foremost. Higgins, despite being strong defensively, has always been in a position on his club where he was relied upon for offense. He was always a go-to-guy.

Chipchura's shot isn't great. He doesn't have Higgins' speed, by any stretch of the imagination. Where I think his offense is underrated is his passing ability. He's good when it comes to distributing the puck, using his size to create room for himself and dishing the puck out in the offensive zone with an opponent on his back.

I hope to see him develop into a 40-point guy, but I really don't think he has the offensive capabilities to do much more than that.
Thanks Mike. I know Higgins is a lot faster and better skater then Chipchura, the wirst shot of Higgins is also better.

Chipchura never scored a lot of goals in a season, but that right, he got some decent passing skillz.

Wich type of player you'll compare him ? On his defensive plays ? Kris Draper or more like a Carbonneau or Lehtinen ?

If Chipchura can develop into a 40-45 points wich may be 15 goals and 30 assist in a season will be good for a third line center...

If he got top-two line time and play with decent winger in few years to come, can he develop himself in a more offensive player or he's already near of his upside ?

GSK* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-26-2006, 04:22 PM
  #6
417
Registered User
 
417's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ottawa
Country: Haiti
Posts: 19,635
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
No, not similar.

The posters on this forum that actually saw Higgins play knew he had a good shot and some real offensive upside.

Chipchura, too, is underrated offensively in the sense that many seem to believe he's exclusively a defensive forward, who's slow and inept offensively. But that's where the comparisons end, really.

Chipchura is more of a fundamentals-driven forward. He'll focus on the intangibles first and foremost. Higgins, despite being strong defensively, has always been in a position on his club where he was relied upon for offense. He was always a go-to-guy.

Chipchura's shot isn't great. He doesn't have Higgins' speed, by any stretch of the imagination. Where I think his offense is underrated is his passing ability. He's good when it comes to distributing the puck, using his size to create room for himself and dishing the puck out in the offensive zone with an opponent on his back.

I hope to see him develop into a 40-point guy, but I really don't think he has the offensive capabilities to do much more than that.
Agreed...unless Chipchura can add a little more explosiveness in his game, then I could see his numbers improving a tad

417 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-26-2006, 04:24 PM
  #7
Mike8
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 11,269
vCash: 500
I saw a lot more of Higgins' development than I have of Chipchura's, so I'm not sure if I'm the best person to ask about this.

From what I've seen though, Chipchura's not going to be like any of the three players you mentioned due to skating. Anticipating the play, body position and his long reach will be key factors in Chipchura's overall play, but specifically his defensive capabilities. He uses his body well down low at both ends of the ice. His positioning is strong.

Chipchura could be used as a second line center, potentially, if he has a puck-carrying winger like Kovalev by his side, because he's so very versatile and able to adapt his game to complement his wingers. But that'd only be in a situation where the third line C was a catalyst offensively like Plekanec could be.

Anyway, I do really like Chipchura's abilities with the puck. He'd be effective with some good-skating wingers by his side. He's also not afraid of going to the net.

Mike8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-26-2006, 04:24 PM
  #8
GSK*
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Uzbekistan
Country: Uzbekistan
Posts: 2,909
vCash: 500
If you guy have to choice right now, back in the days...

did you take Wolski over Chipchura to play the second unit LW ? Or even Schremp or Meszaros or we are fine with Chipchura ?

GSK* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-26-2006, 04:24 PM
  #9
417
Registered User
 
417's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ottawa
Country: Haiti
Posts: 19,635
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GSK View Post
My bad sorry, didn't look at the right statsheet.



Thanks Mike. I know Higgins is a lot faster and better skater then Chipchura, the wirst shot of Higgins is also better.

Chipchura never scored a lot of goals in a season, but that right, he got some decent passing skillz.

Wich type of player you'll compare him ? On his defensive plays ? Kris Draper or more like a Carbonneau or Lehtinen ?

If Chipchura can develop into a 40-45 points wich may be 15 goals and 30 assist in a season will be good for a third line center...

If he got top-two line time and play with decent winger in few years to come, can he develop himself in a more offensive player or he's already near of his upside ?

Well i've seen Chipchura enough...I think if you absolutely want a comparison, Radek Bonk this year is a good start. Although Chipchura plays with alot more urgency and emotion, not to mention the intangibles he brings that Bonk doesn't.

If Chichura plays with offensive wingers, I could definately see him in the 55-60pt range, but they'd have to be pretty good.

417 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-26-2006, 04:27 PM
  #10
toshiro
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Western Canuckland
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,951
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to toshiro
Quote:
Originally Posted by fredez View Post
I also think that one of Chipchura's underrated facet is his set of hands. In a lot of ways he is like Bonk (I personnally like Bonk by the way) but I think he has more of an edge (character, leadership, grit) to his game than Bonk.

I agree with you that his upside is around 40-50 points too.
Ive seen Chip play a number of times and he is comparable to Bonk with better vision and much more grit. He is more of a playmaker than a goalscorer but he is ok in close.

toshiro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-26-2006, 04:29 PM
  #11
Mike8
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 11,269
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GSK View Post
If you guy have to choice right now, back in the days...

did you take Wolski over Chipchura to play the second unit LW ? Or even Schremp or Meszaros or we are fine with Chipchura ?
I'd definitely take Meszaros over Chipchura in retrospect. Though my draft-list at the time had Meszaros lower than Chipchura...

I had Wolski up near the high of my draft list. I was very high on him, and I still think he's a top quality player. I think the knocks on him with regards to his willingness to play in traffic, attitude, etc. were (for the most part) nonsense and that he was/is a top-notch talent.

Now, though, I don't know. I'd probably still take Wolski over Chipchura, but it's closer than I had originally thought. I don't regret (for a lack of a better word) Montreal having chosen Chipchura. I think he does have some underestimated abilities with the puck, and will contribute to the team for many years. And that's what you want out of a draft.

Mike8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-26-2006, 04:31 PM
  #12
kostybros
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Qc city
Country: Canada
Posts: 402
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GSK View Post
If you guy have to choice right now, back in the days...

did you take Wolski over Chipchura to play the second unit LW ? Or even Schremp or Meszaros or we are fine with Chipchura ?
I think chip was a good choice, but not the best one. meszaros would be the one i'd like to have but both wolski and shremp will put better offensive number(than chip), but they don't have the leadership, grit and defensive awareness that chip will provide.

kostybros is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-26-2006, 04:42 PM
  #13
GSK*
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Uzbekistan
Country: Uzbekistan
Posts: 2,909
vCash: 500
Thank you guys. For be honest except for the WJC and only 2 games last year of Hamilton Bulldogs I've never seen Chipchura played and the updated stuff about him on the web are not in abundance.

Keep the thread clean, this always a more fun way to read decent post.

Now , did you think Danis deserve to be in the NHL right now and in that way Halak could see more ice time in the AHL. Jaroslav got any chance to play in MTL ? With Price coming sooner then later (I mean, he was the best at the camp so 2 years is realistic) did you think Halak could be traded or got no value right now ?

GSK* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-26-2006, 04:45 PM
  #14
Mad Habber
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,713
vCash: 500
The difference here with Shremp and Wolski, is even though these two should be able to put up more points on the board than Chip, we know Chip can captain a slightly underdog team to win the big game. Can jr vs the USA jr last year WJC. Chip was an important part of a team. While Shremp anyways failed in bring gold to the USA and failed in bringing his team (London Knights) to the Memorial Cup. Both times, his team was favored. I don't lay the blame solely on Shremp, but being the go-to guy, you have to shoulder more of the blame the same as getting more of the recognition if you succeed.

Mad Habber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-26-2006, 04:46 PM
  #15
RC51
Registered User
 
RC51's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,693
vCash: 500
Nobody knows the end result with Chipper. He will need to get better. But he works hard every night and that makes him more NHL ready than others. Just like 2 years ago with Higgins and now we see the end result with Higgins. Both speak english and are already north americans. I bring that up because many hab prospects ARE NOT from here. It takes them more time. You have to be MORE
Quote:
paceint
with the euros.

RC51 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-26-2006, 04:58 PM
  #16
montreal
Go Habs Go
 
montreal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Country: Sark
Posts: 23,695
vCash: 500
I like what I've seen from Chipchura so far. I have seen most of his games with Hamilton and I have been surprised with his skating, it looks better then I thought it would at the pro level. Hope to see him get faster, quicker first step and work on his shot. But he works hard and is smart with good size, not overly physical so far but I've seen him throw some decent hits.





As for Danis and Halak, I'm glad that he's in Hamilton, has looked ok at times, been good here and there but then lets in a softie or some sort of mental breakdown. With 4 seconds left in the game he came out and grabbed the puck, only to turn it over to a wide open net, there goes at least 1 pt in a game they started out so well. Last night he went to throw the puck to his defensmen to keep play alive and instead he dropped it behind him and it was headed for the goal line until Traverse grabbed it.

Not saying those two plays means anything, just that he needs to work on his consistency a bit, although the Dogs defense has been shaky from what I've seen, but having 3 regulars on defense out of the lineup hurts. I do think Danis could come in and be a NHL backup but we'll have to see if he gets his chances or not. Who knows what kind of camp Price will have next year, so everything imo is up in the air.

Halak has only played in 1 game, Lever views Danis as the starter, must like what he's seeing cause Danis keeps getting the nod. Next year Price will either be in Hamilton or with the Habs, so who knows who the starter will be in Hamilton next year either. If it's Price and Halak, that would been a nice 1-2 combo for sure.

montreal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-26-2006, 05:00 PM
  #17
coolguy21415
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Vietnam
Posts: 9,285
vCash: 500
I don't see how that's relevant, and I also think it's a false stigma. While the language barrier can make the transition difficult, if a player is ready to produce at the NHL level, teams will ensure they have a mentor on the team to help them linguistically. Since there are so many euros in the league already, that's increasingly easy to do.

coolguy21415 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-26-2006, 05:28 PM
  #18
StanleyCH25
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 922
vCash: 500
One of the things I find Higgins does so well is protect the puck. He doesn't have amazing hands but he seems to anticipate plays very well and manages to hide the puck from the opposition to a certain extent. Adding the fact that he has a hard, quick release and a decent top speed and first step gave him the possibility to make it as a top line player. The one thing I haven't heard from others much is how well he manages to draw penalties. I wonder if there's a stat out there to show how many penalties were committed against a specific player. I think he would be Montreal's top player in that category. I don't think he'll ever win a scoring race but I think he'll always be a contributor to the team whether it's from points or from defensive plays or playing with grit.


From what little I've seen from Chipchura, I think he's the type of player who slows down the pace of a game to his own and protects the puck well. He seems like the kind of player who will also draw penalties from the opposition just by frustrating them with his ability to protect the puck.

StanleyCH25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-26-2006, 06:16 PM
  #19
Souffle
A soupçon of nutmeg
 
Souffle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Le Creuset
Country: France
Posts: 3,485
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GSK View Post
If you guy have to choice right now, back in the days...

did you take Wolski over Chipchura to play the second unit LW ? Or even Schremp or Meszaros or we are fine with Chipchura ?
It's tempting to say both Meszaors and Wolski, but I have no complaints about having taken Chipchura. It's kind of similar to the Price pick. We still see all kinds of threads asking whether it should've been Staal, Bourdon, Brule or now Kopitar. Maybe either pick could've been better from today's perspective, but in the final analysis, the Habs in both cases got a solid player with good talent.

I tend to think that 1st rounders should always be solid picks. If I had to choose, I'd rather have guaranteed NHL contributors instead of a homerun and a bunch of misses. As turnbuckle likes to point out, the Habs have done very well in this regard over the past 4-5 years with their 1st-3rd rounders.

Souffle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-26-2006, 06:33 PM
  #20
GSK*
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Uzbekistan
Country: Uzbekistan
Posts: 2,909
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by davedave View Post
It's tempting to say both Meszaors and Wolski, but I have no complaints about having taken Chipchura. It's kind of similar to the Price pick. We still see all kinds of threads asking whether it should've been Staal, Bourdon, Brule or now Kopitar. Maybe either pick could've been better from today's perspective, but in the final analysis, the Habs in both cases got a solid player with good talent.

I tend to think that 1st rounders should always be solid picks. If I had to choose, I'd rather have guaranteed NHL contributors instead of a homerun and a bunch of misses. As turnbuckle likes to point out, the Habs have done very well in this regard over the past 4-5 years with their 1st-3rd rounders.
I agree... Except for the the 2003 NHL Draft... In the second round, pick a guy like Cory UrquWhat? over a homer guy like Patrice Bergeron... Or even Patrick O'Sullivan who was higher then that...

I know we can't always know wich players will be good...But Urquwhat? was a nowhere and he's now going nowhere... We get him in the second over Bergeron, O'Sullivan, Shea Weber, Dan Fritsche, Matt Carle and Josh Hennessy... We choose Lapierre in deep of that second round...

I think that was clearly a Timmins (and cie) fault to not take those guys and even more Bergeron and Hennessy both was playing in the Q...

I think after that the Habs add 1 more scout in the Q for us.. I'm right?

GSK* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-26-2006, 06:37 PM
  #21
FisherKing
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: New Brunswick
Posts: 1,270
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by davedave View Post
I tend to think that 1st rounders should always be solid picks. If I had to choose, I'd rather have guaranteed NHL contributors instead of a homerun and a bunch of misses. As turnbuckle likes to point out, the Habs have done very well in this regard over the past 4-5 years with their 1st-3rd rounders.
I agree. When you compare the success (or horrendous lack thereof) in the 1st round in the '90s, I think it brings the point home. As for Chip, I haven't seen him play that much, but even before we drafted him, everything I read and heard about him (then and now) made me think of a Brian Skrudland with more offensive upside, which isn't exactly damning with faint praise. Skrudland did well to get in the double digits in points in a year when he was with the Habs, but they never did fill the hole he left when they traded him (ditto Keane). I think we might finally have a guy in Chip who will finally fill that hole, again with more if not fantastic offensive upside.

As for Higgins (and I know this post tells just how ancient I really am) but he reminds me quite a lot of a stronger version of Steve Shutt when he played. If anyone here remembers those guys, well, you and I aren't far from the Old Folks Home.

FisherKing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-26-2006, 07:01 PM
  #22
TheHoser
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: English Quebec
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,307
vCash: 500
The difference between the two is skating; Chipchura has come a long way, but his skating is still nowhere nears Higgins'. That'll be the big differnce between 3rd line and 1st line for Chipper.

TheHoser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-26-2006, 07:06 PM
  #23
larue*
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,688
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FisherKing View Post
As for Higgins (and I know this post tells just how ancient I really am) but he reminds me quite a lot of a stronger version of Steve Shutt when he played. If anyone here remembers those guys, well, you and I aren't far from the Old Folks Home.
Yeah I know what you mean with Steve Shutt. The only difference being is that when Higgs moves his feet he goes somewhere. Stevie used to get the wheels going along the boards and go nowhere,,,,it was almost comical. Great goal score though.
Excellent comparison.

larue* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-26-2006, 08:31 PM
  #24
FisherKing
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: New Brunswick
Posts: 1,270
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by larue View Post
Yeah I know what you mean with Steve Shutt. The only difference being is that when Higgs moves his feet he goes somewhere. Stevie used to get the wheels going along the boards and go nowhere,,,,it was almost comical. Great goal score though.
Excellent comparison.
Yeah, no question that short choppy stride of Shutts differs from Higgins smooth strong stride. In fact, was going to mention that in my post as well. Good catch though. I guess the similarity is just an impression with me and their over-all style of play.

FisherKing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-26-2006, 09:43 PM
  #25
Kingbobert
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Kingbobert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Montreal
Country: Greece
Posts: 4,683
vCash: 500
i think Chip will have a great career....not necessarally point wise but effective wise

thing about higs and chip is that they're very calm players...very patient very happy to be playing and very responsable...

Kingbobert is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:02 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.