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[EDM] Oilers sign Boyd Gordon (3 years, $3M AAV)

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Old
07-08-2013, 03:29 PM
  #301
tempest2i
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At least he's not signed for too long.

If this contract turns out to be a dud, it's not stuck on the books until the end of time.

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07-08-2013, 04:05 PM
  #302
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Originally Posted by JustinCider View Post
Name me one UFA signing that wasn't. When you're bidding against the entire league, this is what happens. Edmonton isn't a cap team at the moment, so it really doesn't matter. The main thing is to get the right player for your team, if his salary, no matter what it is, can fit into your budget, and you're fine with, then it doesn't really matter. If a team is gonna sit back and look for bargains from UFA's, they aren't gonna get the best of the bunch, those teams will end up with Petrell and Belanger and any other number of borderline NHL players.
While I understand the premise of what youre saying, I disagree with the premise of your first statement. There were quite a few deals which were reasonable.
A lot of the deals were ridiculous in terms of either money or length, or even both (the two main TML deals come to mind, Iginla for 6mill and the Flyers signing Lecavalier), but some were shrewd deals for fair market value.
The Flyers signing Ray Emery
The Wild had two good signings in Matt Cooke and Ballard.
PM Bouchard for 1 year and only 2 million? Good deal.
Khudobin was a great pickup for Carolina.
Max Lapierre for 1.1 was a good deal.

I can keep going but the point is that not EVERY UFA signing has to be an overpayment.
IMO, Gordon at 3 million is overpaying. Having said that, I still think that this was a great signing for the Oil and it will have a very positive affect on the yeam. He is useful in many areas where the Oil seemed to lack.
So while he isnt worth 3 million in a vacuum, he is worth it to the Oil if that makes sense because he helps in more ways in clear area's of need.

So, to sum up, Gordon at 3 million is an overpayment. And It was still a good signing by the team.

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07-08-2013, 04:15 PM
  #303
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Originally Posted by stardog View Post
While I understand the premise of what youre saying, I disagree with the premise of your first statement. There were quite a few deals which were reasonable.
A lot of the deals were ridiculous in terms of either money or length, or even both (the two main TML deals come to mind, Iginla for 6mill and the Flyers signing Lecavalier), but some were shrewd deals for fair market value.
The Flyers signing Ray Emery
The Wild had two good signings in Matt Cooke and Ballard.
PM Bouchard for 1 year and only 2 million? Good deal.
Khudobin was a great pickup for Carolina.
Max Lapierre for 1.1 was a good deal.

I can keep going but the point is that not EVERY UFA signing has to be an overpayment.
IMO, Gordon at 3 million is overpaying. Having said that, I still think that this was a great signing for the Oil and it will have a very positive affect on the yeam. He is useful in many areas where the Oil seemed to lack.
So while he isnt worth 3 million in a vacuum, he is worth it to the Oil if that makes sense because he helps in more ways in clear area's of need.

So, to sum up, Gordon at 3 million is an overpayment. And It was still a good signing by the team.
That's great, but those players are barely worth their current contracts and if those are the only names you can come up with that are "fair value" then you should see the flaw in your logic. They definitely weren't top of their class. Matt Cooke, Ballard, and Lapierre? What a laugh!

Gordon, however, is likely a name you've never heard of until free agency so it's only natural that you consider him an overpayment. One of the better defensive centers you'll find in FA this year. a 3rd liner for sure, not much offense. But ask any Yote fan the element he brought to their team. Might not be worth the $3M this year, but once the cap raises to $75M and beyond who cares.

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07-08-2013, 04:21 PM
  #304
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stardog View Post
While I understand the premise of what youre saying, I disagree with the premise of your first statement. There were quite a few deals which were reasonable.
A lot of the deals were ridiculous in terms of either money or length, or even both (the two main TML deals come to mind, Iginla for 6mill and the Flyers signing Lecavalier), but some were shrewd deals for fair market value.
The Flyers signing Ray Emery
The Wild had two good signings in Matt Cooke and Ballard.
PM Bouchard for 1 year and only 2 million? Good deal.
Khudobin was a great pickup for Carolina.
Max Lapierre for 1.1 was a good deal.

I can keep going but the point is that not EVERY UFA signing has to be an overpayment.
IMO, Gordon at 3 million is overpaying. Having said that, I still think that this was a great signing for the Oil and it will have a very positive affect on the yeam. He is useful in many areas where the Oil seemed to lack.
So while he isnt worth 3 million in a vacuum, he is worth it to the Oil if that makes sense because he helps in more ways in clear area's of need.

So, to sum up, Gordon at 3 million is an overpayment. And It was still a good signing by the team.
Some deals are better than others, but most of your examples are one year deals. All those players have warts...

Emery - played back up on a great team, has injury history, 1 year deal.
Iginla - although I disagree with this, was damaged by his playoff ending. But to be fair, the Bruins shut that whole team down, not just Iggy, still 1 year deal.
PM Bouchard - big time injury history, 1 year deal.
Khudobin - played back up on a powerhouse team, unproven, 1 year deal.
Cooke - while improved, is still a loose canon, could go off at any time.
Lapierre - also a loose canon, one year deal.

see the trend? I'm not saying these deals aren't better than Gordon's, but I would say, none of these players fills a bigger need on the Oilers than Gordon does.

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07-08-2013, 04:25 PM
  #305
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
I think the mistake with your line of thinking is that it's RFA vs. UFA and that Gordon is much more than an easily replaceable 4th line player. He was one of the best defensive forwards last season and was a 3rd line player in terms of minutes.
On one of the most shallow forward cores in the league. Vermette, Hanzal, Gordon down the middle.

Just because he played there doesn't mean that's what he is. On a good team he's a fourth liner.

People need to understand that I appreciate full well what kind of player Gordon is and what he will bring to the Oil. My line of thinking is very much in accordance with the poser above who said that while it's an overpayment, it's still a good signing due to need in Edmonton. It simply doesn't change the fact that paying Boyd Gordon 3M a year is somewhat absurd. Players like him just don't deserve, nor typically receive, that kind of money. I'm not trying to take away from his quality; it's just the way it is. Brian Boyle is a pretty damn good defensive center and PK guy and he's scored 20 goals before. We all agree we don't ever want to see him on our third line again, even though he's played their plenty. None of us would want to pay him 3M if that's what it took to keep him. We probably wouldn't even want to give him 2.5M.

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07-08-2013, 04:38 PM
  #306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MPF24 View Post
On one of the most shallow forward cores in the league. Vermette, Hanzal, Gordon down the middle.

Just because he played there doesn't mean that's what he is. On a good team he's a fourth liner.

People need to understand that I appreciate full well what kind of player Gordon is and what he will bring to the Oil. My line of thinking is very much in accordance with the poser above who said that while it's an overpayment, it's still a good signing due to need in Edmonton. It simply doesn't change the fact that paying Boyd Gordon 3M a year is somewhat absurd. Players like him just don't deserve, nor typically receive, that kind of money. I'm not trying to take away from his quality; it's just the way it is. Brian Boyle is a pretty damn good defensive center and PK guy and he's scored 20 goals before. We all agree we don't ever want to see him on our third line again, even though he's played their plenty. None of us would want to pay him 3M if that's what it took to keep him. We probably wouldn't even want to give him 2.5M.
Ok, so let's agree that 2 million a season for Gordon would have been OK. if the Oilers choices were...

A. Sign him to the deal they did, overpay him by 1 million per season for 3 years, and in doing so, fill a huge hole at bottom 6 centre.

or

B. Walk away from that deal, because it was seen as an overpayment, and let him get his money somewhere else, and force Edmonton to go look for someone else, who was not their first choice, and more than likely have to overpay them to some degree in order to sign them.

Which option do you think they'd choose?

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07-08-2013, 05:22 PM
  #307
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A small overpayment, but overall a good deal.

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07-08-2013, 06:38 PM
  #308
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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
That's great, but those players are barely worth their current contracts and if those are the only names you can come up with that are "fair value" then you should see the flaw in your logic. They definitely weren't top of their class. Matt Cooke, Ballard, and Lapierre? What a laugh!

Gordon, however, is likely a name you've never heard of until free agency so it's only natural that you consider him an overpayment. One of the better defensive centers you'll find in FA this year. a 3rd liner for sure, not much offense. But ask any Yote fan the element he brought to their team. Might not be worth the $3M this year, but once the cap raises to $75M and beyond who cares.
Wow brother, did I make you mad or something?
You missed the entire point of naming names. Perhaps read the post I responded to understand what I was saying?

And youre right. Ive never heard of Boyd Gordon, so I wouldnt know exactly how he fills several needs and fills several holes on the Oil line up. Nor do I watch enough hockey to know what the holes are on the Oil that need to be filled.
A good idea, for future referrence might be for you to not make your argument based upon an assumption which you have absolutely no knowledge about.

Another good idea might be for you to read the post in its entirity, as it addressed things which you questioned. You might save yourself some embarassment.

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07-08-2013, 06:51 PM
  #309
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Originally Posted by JustinCider View Post
Some deals are better than others, but most of your examples are one year deals. All those players have warts...

Emery - played back up on a great team, has injury history, 1 year deal.
Iginla - although I disagree with this, was damaged by his playoff ending. But to be fair, the Bruins shut that whole team down, not just Iggy, still 1 year deal.
PM Bouchard - big time injury history, 1 year deal.
Khudobin - played back up on a powerhouse team, unproven, 1 year deal.
Cooke - while improved, is still a loose canon, could go off at any time.
Lapierre - also a loose canon, one year deal.

see the trend? I'm not saying these deals aren't better than Gordon's, but I would say, none of these players fills a bigger need on the Oilers than Gordon does.
Sure they have warts.
Every player does. We could list them ad naseum for any person on any team. And these 'warts' along with strengths are all part of the puzzle in determining fair market value for each and every player.
Still, there is market value.
And despite these flaws, the players I listed were fair prices for their value.

Again, I think it was the right call for the Oil to sign him (and he has warts of his own by the way). I think he helps your team in several areas of need. That doesnt mean I dont think that they overpaid.
In fact, whether they did or not really isnt relevant. It really does no harm to your teams salary structure and it wasnt a HUGE overpayment in the first place.

My only objection to your post was the comment that every team overpays for UFA's because that simply isnt true. A lot of them sign for fair market value and every now and then GM's come up with a steal.
Yes, IMO the Oil payed higher than market value for Gordon but honestly, who cares? They got an important fit which is what Oilers fans should care about.

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07-08-2013, 06:53 PM
  #310
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Originally Posted by MPF24 View Post
On one of the most shallow forward cores in the league. Vermette, Hanzal, Gordon down the middle.

Just because he played there doesn't mean that's what he is. On a good team he's a fourth liner.

People need to understand that I appreciate full well what kind of player Gordon is and what he will bring to the Oil. My line of thinking is very much in accordance with the poser above who said that while it's an overpayment, it's still a good signing due to need in Edmonton. It simply doesn't change the fact that paying Boyd Gordon 3M a year is somewhat absurd. Players like him just don't deserve, nor typically receive, that kind of money. I'm not trying to take away from his quality; it's just the way it is. Brian Boyle is a pretty damn good defensive center and PK guy and he's scored 20 goals before. We all agree we don't ever want to see him on our third line again, even though he's played their plenty. None of us would want to pay him 3M if that's what it took to keep him. We probably wouldn't even want to give him 2.5M.
It depends what you expect of your 3rd line though, what they are out there to do. I'm not an advanced stats guy, but someone earlier posted his QoC as being other teams first lines. They listed his most common opposition and it was names like Kopitar, Thornton and Getzlaf. No team puts their 4th line out against those guys on purpose. Then stats guy went on to mention zone starts, and that 60% of the time, this guy is taking a draw in his own end. Then he continued on about shots for/shots against while he is on the ice, and that Gordon is a plus in this regard (despite the draw usually taking place in his own zone against a Kopitar/Thornton type). That's the advanced stats working in his favour.

As for the old school simpleton's like myself, I'll go with this argument - points per game at even strength. Gordon's .24 is right in between's Horcoff's .23 and Stoll's .27. Would you call those two 4th liners (I actually won't argue Horcoff)? The only reason the other two have better offensive numbers at the end of the year is that they get PP time, which brings me back to my original question - what do you expect of your 3rd line C? If your top 6 is lacking a little pop then I totally understand wanting a more versatile 3C. We have Hall, Nuge, Eberle, Yakupov and Gagner in our top 6/PP units. We don't need a 3C chipping in, and by avoiding doing so those guys will get more PP time. Sadly, last year we actually gave a bum like Horcoff 2:40 per game of PP time (maybe Kruger can explain that from the unemployment line).

Boyd Gordon is definitely a 3C on our team, but maybe not on your's due to different needs. I'm happy with what he brings and think it was one of the missing pieces to last year. We were in 8th place on trade deadline day. With a guy like Gordon we may have stayed there.

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07-08-2013, 08:56 PM
  #311
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Originally Posted by Roof Daddy View Post
It depends what you expect of your 3rd line though, what they are out there to do. I'm not an advanced stats guy, but someone earlier posted his QoC as being other teams first lines. They listed his most common opposition and it was names like Kopitar, Thornton and Getzlaf. No team puts their 4th line out against those guys on purpose. Then stats guy went on to mention zone starts, and that 60% of the time, this guy is taking a draw in his own end. Then he continued on about shots for/shots against while he is on the ice, and that Gordon is a plus in this regard (despite the draw usually taking place in his own zone against a Kopitar/Thornton type). That's the advanced stats working in his favour.

As for the old school simpleton's like myself, I'll go with this argument - points per game at even strength. Gordon's .24 is right in between's Horcoff's .23 and Stoll's .27. Would you call those two 4th liners (I actually won't argue Horcoff)? The only reason the other two have better offensive numbers at the end of the year is that they get PP time, which brings me back to my original question - what do you expect of your 3rd line C? If your top 6 is lacking a little pop then I totally understand wanting a more versatile 3C. We have Hall, Nuge, Eberle, Yakupov and Gagner in our top 6/PP units. We don't need a 3C chipping in, and by avoiding doing so those guys will get more PP time. Sadly, last year we actually gave a bum like Horcoff 2:40 per game of PP time (maybe Kruger can explain that from the unemployment line).

Boyd Gordon is definitely a 3C on our team, but maybe not on your's due to different needs. I'm happy with what he brings and think it was one of the missing pieces to last year. We were in 8th place on trade deadline day. With a guy like Gordon we may have stayed there.
Agree completely! Our needs justify spending a little more than some others may be willing to. Not in a salary problem situation so we were able to spend what is needed to get the best player for the role/position available.

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07-08-2013, 09:57 PM
  #312
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I posted in here before we knew it was an AAV of $3M saying I thought it was a good signing. Seeing the actual contract now, I think he's definitely overpaid but this isn't a terrible contract or signing. I think $2M per was very reasonable and for $1M more he's not overpaid by that much. Oilers aren't in cap trouble. There's a good chance this contract won't hurt them. Also, it's free agency and there is always overpayment, especially for a team like Edmonton who has trouble attracting UFAs and Gordon likely had a lot of interest from many others.

To be honest, if you want to overpay for a player, Gordon's the type that you do. He's very good at what he does and brings a lot to the table that Edmonton needed. I'd much rather overpay for a player who not only addresses so many needs but plays with heart every night rather than overpay a player who is more one-dimensional and doesn't give a damn. If he was still out there I'd still love him in Buffalo for this price. Oilers wanted him and went out and got him. Good for them. He makes them a lot better.

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07-08-2013, 10:01 PM
  #313
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Originally Posted by Rivet52 View Post
This thread has turned into such a bicker fest I don't even care to read the recent posts.

I posted in here before we knew it was an AAV of $3M saying I thought it was a good signing. Seeing the actual contract now, I think he's definitely overpaid but this isn't a terrible contract or signing. I think $2M per was very reasonable and for $1M more he's not overpaid by that much. Oilers aren't in cap trouble. There's a good chance this contract won't hurt them. Also, it's free agency and there is always overpayment, especially for a team like Edmonton who has trouble attracting UFAs and Gordon likely had a lot of interest from many others.

To be honest, if you want to overpay for a player, Gordon's the type that you do. He's very good at what he does and brings a lot to the table that Edmonton needed. I'd much rather overpay for a player who not only addresses so many needs but plays with heart every night rather than overpay a player who is more one-dimensional and doesn't give a damn. If he was still out there I'd still love him in Buffalo for this price. Oilers wanted him and went out and got him. Good for them. He makes them a lot better.
This x1000

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07-08-2013, 10:02 PM
  #314
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Let's quit the bickering, please. Respectfully debate.

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07-08-2013, 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Roof Daddy View Post
It depends what you expect of your 3rd line though, what they are out there to do. I'm not an advanced stats guy, but someone earlier posted his QoC as being other teams first lines. They listed his most common opposition and it was names like Kopitar, Thornton and Getzlaf. No team puts their 4th line out against those guys on purpose. Then stats guy went on to mention zone starts, and that 60% of the time, this guy is taking a draw in his own end. Then he continued on about shots for/shots against while he is on the ice, and that Gordon is a plus in this regard (despite the draw usually taking place in his own zone against a Kopitar/Thornton type). That's the advanced stats working in his favour.

As for the old school simpleton's like myself, I'll go with this argument - points per game at even strength. Gordon's .24 is right in between's Horcoff's .23 and Stoll's .27. Would you call those two 4th liners (I actually won't argue Horcoff)? The only reason the other two have better offensive numbers at the end of the year is that they get PP time, which brings me back to my original question - what do you expect of your 3rd line C? If your top 6 is lacking a little pop then I totally understand wanting a more versatile 3C. We have Hall, Nuge, Eberle, Yakupov and Gagner in our top 6/PP units. We don't need a 3C chipping in, and by avoiding doing so those guys will get more PP time. Sadly, last year we actually gave a bum like Horcoff 2:40 per game of PP time (maybe Kruger can explain that from the unemployment line).

Boyd Gordon is definitely a 3C on our team, but maybe not on your's due to different needs. I'm happy with what he brings and think it was one of the missing pieces to last year. We were in 8th place on trade deadline day. With a guy like Gordon we may have stayed there.
This post is exactly correct. Any player who lines up against top players, starts majority of shifts in own end and still ends up with a positive corsi rating is a very good shutdown player.

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07-08-2013, 10:17 PM
  #316
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While I think he's probably well compensated at even $2M, much less $3M, this is a real solid player that fans will enjoy watching, for all three years. This is far from one of the more boneheaded moves of free agency. Great addition.

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07-08-2013, 10:18 PM
  #317
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Required player for this team, and now he plays for them. It's miles better than only offering 2.5 and losing out.

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07-08-2013, 10:42 PM
  #318
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When I heard Boyd Gordon was available I was hoping that he might come back to Washington. I really liked him as a player. His face-off wins will really help you.

With such a young forward group you need some vets. It's something I've noticed with our young guys, MoJo on our Caps team is very skilled and can play in the NHL but he hasn't yet learned to be a wily player. Until they learn that they aren't as useful as someone like Gordon.

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07-08-2013, 11:38 PM
  #319
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Good deal, even if it's a bit pricey. With all the ridiculous UFA contracts handed out...don't really see how people can complain about this.

Even if the Oilers regret this in a year or two, they will have no problem trading him at the deadline to a team with cap space looking for playoff depth. Or they can just keep him. I don't think 3 million per year to a quality player is enough to hurt them when it comes time to re-up all their RFA's.

There's really no way this contract ends up hurting the Oilers in any way, unless Gordon pulls a Ben Eager and plays himself out of the league...

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