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Old
07-08-2013, 12:06 PM
  #1
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07-08-2013, 02:43 PM
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James Mirtle wrote a cautionary piece about David Clarkson's 7-year deal:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...ticle13067766/

Just a jaw-dropping quote from Nonis in here: Im not worried about six or seven right now...Im worried about one. And Year 1, I know were going to have a very good player. I believe that hes got a lot of good years left in him.

Holy hell. I have my issues with Gillis but every now and then it's good to have a reminder of how incompetent Nonis was.

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07-08-2013, 02:52 PM
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Of course Nonis isn't worried about years six and seven in Clarkson's contract. He'll be long since fired by then.

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07-08-2013, 02:54 PM
  #4
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Anyone affiliated in that organization is crazy if they think they got a player better than a 20-goal scoring, 40-point scoring winger with a bit of snarl. Bad signing, good player.

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07-08-2013, 02:56 PM
  #5
ddawg1950
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burke's Evil Spirit View Post
James Mirtle wrote a cautionary piece about David Clarkson's 7-year deal:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...ticle13067766/

Just a jaw-dropping quote from Nonis in here: Im not worried about six or seven right now...Im worried about one. And Year 1, I know were going to have a very good player. I believe that hes got a lot of good years left in him.

Holy hell. I have my issues with Gillis but every now and then it's good to have a reminder of how incompetent Nonis was.
Looking at the charts, I would imagine the Leafs should be concerned about the performance drop off for power forwards after the age of 30.

Particularly since Clarkson turns 30 in March.

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07-08-2013, 03:18 PM
  #6
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Anyone affiliated in that organization is crazy if they think they got a player better than a 20-goal scoring, 40-point scoring winger with a bit of snarl. Bad signing, good player.
The Clarkson addition is okay, it's more that they threw away quality depth for an unproven goalie that they didn't need and tossed away a top 6, tough minutes center for nothing just so they could spend even more money on a bad center.

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07-08-2013, 03:24 PM
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The Clarkson addition is okay, it's more that they threw away quality depth for an unproven goalie that they didn't need and tossed away a top 6, tough minutes center for nothing just so they could spend even more money on a bad center.
Losing Grabo was the mistake. One might not recognize it, but Bernier makes them a better team in a much more subtle way. I have no reservations with the addition of Clarkson, the contract though is a huge liability. Top to bottom. When he doesn't meet organization expectations, it's going to be really difficult to move him for anything they have lost in the opportunity cost of Grabovski.

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07-08-2013, 03:28 PM
  #8
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Losing Grabo was the mistake. One might not recognize it, but Bernier makes them a better team in a much more subtle way. I have no reservations with the addition of Clarkson, the contract though is a huge liability. Top to bottom. When he doesn't meet organization expectations, it's going to be really difficult to move him for anything they have lost in the opportunity cost of Grabovski.
I'm not sure how adding an unproven backup makes them better.

The part that stuck out for me in the Mirtle article was this:

Quote:
He well may. Its even possible Clarkson can turn from something other than a power forward and chip in in other areas later in the contract. The problem with that scenario is that he makes $5.25-million a year, and if hes not producing 15-plus goals with some physical play thrown in, hes probably not providing much value at that number.
Is that the sad state of our league? 15 goals for $5.25m.


The worst part of that contract is that years 4 and 5 are for $7m in real cash, so it's not like that is an attractive contract to a cap floor team.

I have no reason why Nonis didn't front load it. That contract might be the worst deal in the league, as early as next year.

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07-08-2013, 03:34 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
I'm not sure how adding an unproven backup makes them better.

The part that stuck out for me in the Mirtle article was this:



Is that the sad state of our league? 15 goals for $5.25m.


The worst part of that contract is that years 4 and 5 are for $7m in real cash, so it's not like that is an attractive contract to a cap floor team.

I have no reason why Nonis didn't front load it. That contract might be the worst deal in the league, as early as next year.
I pretty much agree with you about the contract. I remember Panger (I think) said on the panel earlier this year "...and 20 goals a season is a lot of goals."

However, Bernier adds competition to a crease that needs it now. Worst case scenario is they both play up to their potential, one of them gets traded for a more significant return than Frattin, Scrivens + 2nd, which isn't really that much to begin with. For example, I'd take a 9th overall pick over that package. Bernier simply wasn't getting the games in LA to have a pedigree like Schneider has.

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07-08-2013, 03:40 PM
  #10
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I pretty much agree with you about the contract. I remember Panger (I think) said on the panel earlier this year "...and 20 goals a season is a lot of goals."

However, Bernier adds competition to a crease that needs it now. Worst case scenario is they both play up to their potential, one of them gets traded for a more significant return than Frattin, Scrivens + 2nd, which isn't really that much to begin with. For example, I'd take a 9th overall pick over that package. Bernier simply wasn't getting the games in LA to have a pedigree like Schneider has.
I just don't see it with Bernier that is all. Schneider had it all, the mentality, athleticism, and to me what is most important for goalies these days, SIZE.

Bernier is 5'11" at best and I don't believe he has the frame to handle the rigors of the position.

I also think the competition will be bad for the team. I think it has potential to split the dressing room and as the cliche goes, when you have a 1A and 1B, it usually means you don't have a true #1.

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07-08-2013, 03:43 PM
  #11
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Situation is different of course, but it did work in our dressing room. I don't know much about Bernier's mental game but his raw athleticism and positioning make me believe his size isn't that great a concern.

My one concern is how different Toronto and LA's systems are. LA liked to collapse to the net, Toronto I see something different every game. They are much younger than LA as well.

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Old
07-08-2013, 03:47 PM
  #12
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Situation is different of course, but it did work in our dressing room. I don't know much about Bernier's mental game but his raw athleticism and positioning make me believe his size isn't that great a concern.

My one concern is how different Toronto and LA's systems are. LA liked to collapse to the net, Toronto I see something different every game. They are much younger than LA as well.
The issue is, we had a clear #1 and the backup played his way into it.

Even at this point, I'd say Toronto lacks the true #1, although Reimer had some decent #'s this year.

Either way it's TO and I don't care, as always, I hope they fall flat on their faces.

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Old
07-08-2013, 04:27 PM
  #13
Burke's Evil Spirit
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Looking at the charts, I would imagine the Leafs should be concerned about the performance drop off for power forwards after the age of 30.

Particularly since Clarkson turns 30 in March.
One thing about the charts is Mirtle kept things very simple and didn't account for survivorship bias. IE, the power forwards who keep producing into their 30s (ie, Shane Doan) produced at a much HIGHER rate in their 20s than the 45-50 points Clarkson's been providing. Overall the outlook for that contract is pretty grim.

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07-08-2013, 04:27 PM
  #14
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Originally Posted by Burke's Evil Spirit View Post
James Mirtle wrote a cautionary piece about David Clarkson's 7-year deal:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...ticle13067766/

Just a jaw-dropping quote from Nonis in here: “I’m not worried about six or seven right now...I’m worried about one. And Year 1, I know we’re going to have a very good player. I believe that he’s got a lot of good years left in him.”

Holy hell. I have my issues with Gillis but every now and then it's good to have a reminder of how incompetent Nonis was.
What an astounding quote.

What an idiot.

I'd expect Clarkson to have 1 or 2 'decent' seasons and then quickly regress to a 25-30 point player.

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Old
07-08-2013, 04:32 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burke's Evil Spirit View Post
James Mirtle wrote a cautionary piece about David Clarkson's 7-year deal:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...ticle13067766/

Just a jaw-dropping quote from Nonis in here: Im not worried about six or seven right now...Im worried about one. And Year 1, I know were going to have a very good player. I believe that hes got a lot of good years left in him.

Holy hell. I have my issues with Gillis but every now and then it's good to have a reminder of how incompetent Nonis was.
There are moments when I want to scream at Gillis. Then I remember that fellow Canadian hockey fans are deadling with Feaster, Tambellini, and Nonis.

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Old
07-08-2013, 04:40 PM
  #16
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Best 3rd line in the league

Bozak-Bolland-Clarkson

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Old
07-08-2013, 04:44 PM
  #17
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There are moments when I want to scream at Gillis. Then I remember that fellow Canadian hockey fans are deadling with Feaster, Tambellini, and Nonis.
Don't be ridiculous, the Oilers know what they're doing, they jettisoned Tambo in favour of MacT and Scott Howson...


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07-08-2013, 05:10 PM
  #18
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Best 3rd line in the league

Bozak-Bolland-Clarkson
Bozak sticks out like a sore thumb on that line.
Not sold on Bozak whatsoever.

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07-08-2013, 05:13 PM
  #19
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Bozak sticks out like a sore thumb on that line.
Not sold on Bozak whatsoever.
Also...isn't that their second line? I feel like maybe me2's post was a joke and I took it literally.

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07-08-2013, 05:15 PM
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Bozak sticks out like a sore thumb on that line.
Not sold on Bozak whatsoever.
Raymond-like with a bit more consistency.

Awesome guy though.

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Old
07-08-2013, 05:19 PM
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I pretty much agree with you about the contract. I remember Panger (I think) said on the panel earlier this year "...and 20 goals a season is a lot of goals."

However, Bernier adds competition to a crease that needs it now. Worst case scenario is they both play up to their potential, one of them gets traded for a more significant return than Frattin, Scrivens + 2nd, which isn't really that much to begin with. For example, I'd take a 9th overall pick over that package. Bernier simply wasn't getting the games in LA to have a pedigree like Schneider has.
Wouldn't worst case scenario be that neither live up to their potential?

If Bernier and Reimer are on decent contracts with no NTCs I would argued that both living up to their potential would be best case scenario. They would have one very good goalie, and a package greater than the one they gave up for Bernier

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Old
07-08-2013, 05:19 PM
  #22
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Best 3rd line in the league

Bozak-Bolland-Clarkson
At nearly 13 million bucks, they should be.


Last edited by ddawg1950: 07-08-2013 at 05:44 PM. Reason: I was in the hall when they taught arithmetic.
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Old
07-08-2013, 06:17 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by live playoff hockey View Post
Wouldn't worst case scenario be that neither live up to their potential?

If Bernier and Reimer are on decent contracts with no NTCs I would argued that both living up to their potential would be best case scenario. They would have one very good goalie, and a package greater than the one they gave up for Bernier
No, I call that the 'lol' scenario.

But you pretty much explained what my expectations are with that trade right there.

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07-08-2013, 06:24 PM
  #24
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Raymond-like with a bit more consistency.

Awesome guy though.
Does a decent job in the face-off circle as well. Grabo is a better player but I understood why they pushed to keep Bozak by overpaying a bit. Obviously has good chemistry with Kessel who I'm sure also pushed for the signing. It's not that dissimilar to B. Morrison, who was a better player than Bozak but was also playing way above his head and flanked by two star wingers. Chemistry is a funny, fickle thing.

I would have been furious if the Canucks gave Bozak that contract, but I get it from a Leaf point of view.

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07-08-2013, 07:06 PM
  #25
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Nonis needs sign a guy starting with a vowel. Struggling to add Clarkson and Grabovski to LACK. GLACCK?

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