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Part IX: Free Agency Signing Period Discussion and Rumors

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Old
07-08-2013, 06:17 PM
  #351
Prongo
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Knew Burmistrov was going to RUssia. Damn shame too. Kid has the talent. Flyers should have traded for him..... you know why











































because we need all the centers we can get.

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07-08-2013, 06:23 PM
  #352
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If the Flyers aren't going to re-sign Gagne, I think they should look at Brad Boyes. I'd love to have him on the third line. He only made a million bucks last year but I don't know what type of raise he is looking for. If he can be had sub $3 million, I think he'd be a good fit in this lineup if Gagne is out of the picture.

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07-08-2013, 06:28 PM
  #353
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
If the Flyers aren't going to re-sign Gagne, I think they should look at Brad Boyes. I'd love to have him on the third line. He only made a million bucks last year but I don't know what type of raise he is looking for. If he can be had sub $3 million, I think he'd be a good fit in this lineup if Gagne is out of the picture.
I don't think Brad Boyes will hit 3 million. I think he comes in around 2 maybe even less, or he goes to Europe. I think the major pay days are pretty much over in FA now.

Also still keeping my eye on Edmonton, they really need a big blue liner to play with Schultz, and Coburn fits that mold. I wonder how much the Gm's have been talking the last couple of days...

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07-08-2013, 06:40 PM
  #354
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
I don't think Brad Boyes will hit 3 million. I think he comes in around 2 maybe even less, or he goes to Europe. I think the major pay days are pretty much over in FA now.

Also still keeping my eye on Edmonton, they really need a big blue liner to play with Schultz, and Coburn fits that mold. I wonder how much the Gm's have been talking the last couple of days...
My guess/hope is that Homer is waiting to get Mez cleared and will then try to deal him first. The only other thing I really expect is signing Gagne. I would be more than happy about this offseason if the lineup looks like this going into the season:

Hartnell-G-Voracek
Schenn-VL-Read
Gagne-Couturier-Simmonds
Rinaldo-Hall-Talbot
Rosehill

Schenn-Timonen
Streit-Coburn
Grossmann-Gus
Gervais

Mason/Emery

Plenty of caproom for a midseason deal if necessary.

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07-08-2013, 08:25 PM
  #355
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Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
I don't think Brad Boyes will hit 3 million. I think he comes in around 2 maybe even less, or he goes to Europe. I think the major pay days are pretty much over in FA now.

Also still keeping my eye on Edmonton, they really need a big blue liner to play with Schultz, and Coburn fits that mold. I wonder how much the Gm's have been talking the last couple of days...
I just don't see how Boyes would fit on the team... not good enough on a playoff team to be a top 6 guy, not the kind of guy who can play on bottom six. If the guy went into dirty areas, competed more and had more awareness people would clamor for him. So much talent not used.

That being said, while I would not want him, he is overly maligned by people, guy is an ironman, (1 injury in career, though he never goes near trouble, so that is understandable) shootout demon, has beautiful hands and is a handy passer... and the one in 10 shot he catches no one on earth is stopping, he also always seems a really nice guy... I think that is part of the problem... he wouldn't hurt a fly! But he needs to put up 20 goals and 45-50+ points to merit being in the NHL really, (on a competing team, not just filling out bottom 5 rosters or a last minute plug) as he does not have the other stuff to drop to a third line.

But if (and I hope we don't) did sign (for cheap!) him there would be two positives:

1. If he was on Couts wing it could help him bring more offence... and Couts and Read would partially negate Boyes defensive liabilities (but they would have to do heavy lifting in the corners.)

2. On NHL 14 our forwards would probably be the best rated on the game. EA will see Boyes PPG, 1 40+ goal and 3 60+ point years and put him as an 80 ;p


Last edited by Appleyard: 07-08-2013 at 08:39 PM.
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Old
07-08-2013, 08:49 PM
  #356
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I would like to pry pysk from the sabres.

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07-08-2013, 09:43 PM
  #357
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Hey, remember Denis Grebeshkov?

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Old
07-08-2013, 09:44 PM
  #358
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Originally Posted by TheKingPin View Post
We need to rethink our D big time after these signings. Dmen are going for cheap!
Apparently only those who are really good and in their prime, otherwise you have to overpay. How the hell, do McDonagh, Shattenkirk and Voynov (I understand him but I'd still take him over the higher paid options) get paid much less than Streit, Timmonen, Gonchar, and Carle (currently).

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07-08-2013, 09:44 PM
  #359
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Originally Posted by dookie88 View Post
For starters, Dustin Leed doesn't nail anything. Period.

Also, Luke Schenn is like 24 and has played like 1000 games or so. If he continues to improve we have ourself one of the premier shutdown defenders in this game.
Gustafsson looks like top4 material.
Gostisbhere could be anything from top-pairing to M.A. Bergeron, but still will most likely play significant games in a year or two.
Robert Hagg looks good.
Samuel Morin's limit is the sky.

I think we are getting there.
Also Coburn and Grossmann have many years left as meaningful players in this league.
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Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
I don't think he nailed anything on the head. There are tons of defenders with sky high upside, but very few who are actually playing at a sky high level. The elite defenders in the league are a very exclusive group. Not nearly enough to go around.
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Originally Posted by CS View Post
Like Luke Schenn as a future #2 or Erik Gustafsson as a future #3?

Because every young defenseman in the league is guaranteed to be a #1.



Thanks again Dustin.
I think you guys are missing the point, this team has no #1 defenseman prospects besides maybe Morin. Hell you could even argue that on most teams, Schenn is a 3rd or 4th defenseman and Gus is a 4th and maybe even a 5th defenseman.

Everyone should take a look around the league, you see names like Doughty, Weber, Pietrangelo, Karlsson, OEL and Subban. All YOUNG defenseman produced by the draft. Please tell me, when is the last time the Flyers have had a young elite defenseman?

Then we have the next category, young defenseman with the potential to be a #1, some of them may be the #1's on their current teams, some of them are still very much prospects, as I said they have the skillset and the potential, but on a lot of rosters they will probably slot in as the #2 defenseman for the duration of their carers. Names like Shattenkirk, Schultz, Staal, Faulk, Hamilton and Carlson come to mind.


The sad part is, there are so many more young defenseman league wide that I didn't name.

Our best defenseman? Age 35, and age 38. The first is injury prone, and the second one is solid, but not what he was 3 years ago.

Believe me, I really like Schenn and Gus, but in comparison to the other young defenseman leaguewide...

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07-08-2013, 09:46 PM
  #360
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Hey, remember Denis Grebeshkov?
Always liked him. What about him?

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07-08-2013, 09:55 PM
  #361
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Always liked him. What about him?
Oh nothing. I was just wondering if anyone remembered him.

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07-08-2013, 10:03 PM
  #362
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Originally Posted by usahockey22flyers View Post
I think you guys are missing the point, this team has no #1 defenseman prospects besides maybe Morin. Hell you could even argue that on most teams, Schenn is a 3rd or 4th defenseman and Gus is a 4th and maybe even a 5th defenseman.

Everyone should take a look around the league, you see names like Doughty, Weber, Pietrangelo, Karlsson, OEL and Subban. All YOUNG defenseman produced by the draft. Please tell me, when is the last time the Flyers have had a young elite defenseman?

Then we have the next category, young defenseman with the potential to be a #1, some of them may be the #1's on their current teams, some of them are still very much prospects, as I said they have the skillset and the potential, but on a lot of rosters they will probably slot in as the #2 defenseman for the duration of their carers. Names like Shattenkirk, Schultz, Staal, Faulk, Hamilton and Carlson come to mind.


The sad part is, there are so many more young defenseman league wide that I didn't name.

Our best defenseman? Age 35, and age 38. The first is injury prone, and the second one is solid, but not what he was 3 years ago.

Believe me, I really like Schenn and Gus, but in comparison to the other young defenseman leaguewide...
Homer traded a lot of his 1st, 2nd, & 3rd rounders up until two years ago, not having those draft picks really hurt our prospect system as a whole.

Four out of those elite defensemen you listed were drafted in the top 15 (Doughty, Pietrangelo, OEL, & Karlsson). We really haven't been drafting much in the top 15 during Homer's tenure.

We have Morin, Hagg, & Gostisbehere in the system all look to be potential top 4 defensemen if everything goes right so the system isn't exactly barren we just have to have some patience and hope everything pans out with those guys. If Homer & Co. holds on to their picks more often like they seem to be doing as of late the prospect system will get stronger. I mean they seem to be pretty committed to drafting defensemen seeing as they drafted 8 in the past two drafts.

Here's an good article on our defensive prospects by Bill Metzler:
http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Bill-...pment/45/52669

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07-08-2013, 10:03 PM
  #363
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Originally Posted by usahockey22flyers View Post
I think you guys are missing the point, this team has no #1 defenseman prospects besides maybe Morin. Hell you could even argue that on most teams, Schenn is a 3rd or 4th defenseman and Gus is a 4th and maybe even a 5th defenseman.

Everyone should take a look around the league, you see names like Doughty, Weber, Pietrangelo, Karlsson, OEL and Subban. All YOUNG defenseman produced by the draft. Please tell me, when is the last time the Flyers have had a young elite defenseman?

Then we have the next category, young defenseman with the potential to be a #1, some of them may be the #1's on their current teams, some of them are still very much prospects, as I said they have the skillset and the potential, but on a lot of rosters they will probably slot in as the #2 defenseman for the duration of their carers. Names like Shattenkirk, Schultz, Staal, Faulk, Hamilton and Carlson come to mind.


The sad part is, there are so many more young defenseman league wide that I didn't name.

Our best defenseman? Age 35, and age 38. The first is injury prone, and the second one is solid, but not what he was 3 years ago.

Believe me, I really like Schenn and Gus, but in comparison to the other young defenseman leaguewide...
I think you're the one missing the point. Finding a blue chip defender is not exactly easy to do when you don't have top 10 picks year after year. There is a huge luck factor involved in the draft.

It's not like Nashville knew they had a franchise defender on their hands when they took Weber. Same with Montreal and Subban...even Karlsson and Ottawa. They lucked into those players. They certainly didn't pick them with the expectations of them becoming stud defenders.

And the rest of them? Well, there's your top 10 picks. Doughty, Pietrangelo, OEL, etc.

You have two ways of obtaining a #1 defender through the draft: 1) suck and get a top five pick to get a 'sure thing' or 2) Get lucky with a later pick.

You increase your odds of "getting lucky" by drafting a higher volume of defenders. Just like you increase your odds of winning the lottery by purchasing a hundred tickets. We have finally started doing that, and look what has happened now. Suddenly we have Gostisbehere, Morin, and Hagg in the pipeline. Three years ago we had nothing. Give it another year or two, and maybe we'll end up with our very own Subban or Karlsson or Shattenkirk.

I'm not sure what you would rather the Flyers have done differently though. We weren't going to pass up on Couturier in '11. We didn't have any 1st rounders in '10 or '09. We took Sbisa in '08 and didn't get "lucky". We had no other choice but to take JVR in '07. And in '06 we took Giroux. Since the first lockout, the only pick you can really scrutinize (maybe) is Laughton, and that looks like a fantastic pick right now. So I'm not sure what your alternative would have been.

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07-08-2013, 10:04 PM
  #364
JDinkalage Morgoone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usahockey22flyers View Post
I think you guys are missing the point, this team has no #1 defenseman prospects besides maybe Morin. Hell you could even argue that on most teams, Schenn is a 3rd or 4th defenseman and Gus is a 4th and maybe even a 5th defenseman.

Everyone should take a look around the league, you see names like Doughty, Weber, Pietrangelo, Karlsson, OEL and Subban. All YOUNG defenseman produced by the draft. Please tell me, when is the last time the Flyers have had a young elite defenseman?

Then we have the next category, young defenseman with the potential to be a #1, some of them may be the #1's on their current teams, some of them are still very much prospects, as I said they have the skillset and the potential, but on a lot of rosters they will probably slot in as the #2 defenseman for the duration of their carers. Names like Shattenkirk, Schultz, Staal, Faulk, Hamilton and Carlson come to mind.


The sad part is, there are so many more young defenseman league wide that I didn't name.

Our best defenseman? Age 35, and age 38. The first is injury prone, and the second one is solid, but not what he was 3 years ago.

Believe me, I really like Schenn and Gus, but in comparison to the other young defenseman leaguewide...

List every team and then list their potential #1 defenseman.

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07-08-2013, 10:18 PM
  #365
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If we don't get Gagne, I'd prefer the kids fill the spot on the wing. Straka sounds great so far. Noebels may have a shot, Akeson, maybe McGinn. Got some options there.

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07-08-2013, 10:41 PM
  #366
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Originally Posted by usahockey22flyers View Post
I think you guys are missing the point, this team has no #1 defenseman prospects besides maybe Morin. Hell you could even argue that on most teams, Schenn is a 3rd or 4th defenseman and Gus is a 4th and maybe even a 5th defenseman.
Maybe that's true about Gustafsson now until the Flyers actually give him a season to break out, but that's definitely not true about Schenn.

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Originally Posted by usahockey22flyers View Post
Everyone should take a look around the league, you see names like Doughty, Weber, Pietrangelo, Karlsson, OEL and Subban. All YOUNG defenseman produced by the draft. Please tell me, when is the last time the Flyers have had a young elite defenseman?
Alright, since Weber is the same age as Coburn and Carle along with the rest of the 2003 draft class, I'm striking him out. It's scary that you didn't put Suter, another 2003 defenseman in there or Duncan Keith from 2002, but yeah.

Anyway...so you have OEL (21), Doughty (23), Pietrangelo (23), Bogosian (22), Karlsson (23), Fowler (21) and Subban (24).

Then you have tier two guys playing over 20 minutes a night:
Schenn (23), Myers (23), Sbisa (23), Kulikov (22), Schultz (23), Voynov (23), Brodin (19), Josi (23), Hamonic (22), McDonagh (25), E. Johnson (25), Del Zotto (23), Cowen (22), Shattenkirk (24), Hedman (22), Carlson (23), Alzner (24)

Then you have these guys who haven't yet played 20 minutes a night consistently:
Weircioch (22), Larsson (20), Gudbranson (21), Despres (22), Demers (25), Cole (24), Aulie (23), Franson (25), Rundblad (22), Gardiner (23), Gustafsson (24), Hamilton (20)

We have 2 from the 36 name list above, putting the NHL average at 1.2 young defensemen. Let's assume I missed some, so I'll put the number at 1.5. We have two, so we're above average league-wide on defensemen, 25 or under, with the ability to compete at 20 minutes a night. Sure, they're not potential #1s, but only 7 of 30 teams has a proven #1 playing over 20 minutes a night putting the average of young true #1s in the NHL per team at 0.23. So we're right in line with league average there.

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Originally Posted by usahockey22flyers View Post
Then we have the next category, young defenseman with the potential to be a #1, some of them may be the #1's on their current teams, some of them are still very much prospects, as I said they have the skillset and the potential, but on a lot of rosters they will probably slot in as the #2 defenseman for the duration of their carers. Names like Shattenkirk, Schultz, Staal, Faulk, Hamilton and Carlson come to mind.
Now are we going to start getting into prospects now?

The truth is that in every era there have been less than 30 TRUE NHL #1 defensemen. That's just the way it is. League-wide, it seems like that trend is continuing.

I will say this though. Looking back at Timonen's numbers this year, he's playing at the level of a guy on the verge of being a #1. Even if he's lost a step, he hasn't lost it completely. Maybe we should try to convince him to stick it out a couple more years to bridge the gap. He's better than quite a few of the young guys you see having potential to be #1s.

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Originally Posted by usahockey22flyers View Post
The sad part is, there are so many more young defenseman league wide that I didn't name.
I did that for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by usahockey22flyers View Post
Our best defenseman? Age 35, and age 38. The first is injury prone, and the second one is solid, but not what he was 3 years ago.
It's scary how good Timonen's defensive numbers are right now. People don't realize this. Meanwhile his offensive numbers are among the league leaders. I really think we should try to convince Timonen to stay a while longer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by usahockey22flyers View Post
Believe me, I really like Schenn and Gus, but in comparison to the other young defenseman leaguewide...
They're right in line with the league average?

Your perception of reality is off-base.

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07-08-2013, 11:03 PM
  #367
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It's scary how good Timonen's defensive numbers are right now. People don't realize this. Meanwhile his offensive numbers are among the league leaders. I really think we should try to convince Timonen to stay a while longer.
I don't think it's that far fetched. The dude wants to win a Cup, and if we're not physically abusing him with minutes, I think he may be down to play until he's 40 in a much reduced role as long as we show significant progression towards that ultimate goal. A big season from the youngsters next year might be the kind of persuasion he needs.

It's going to be a sad, sad day when he does hang them up, though. I know we all appreciate him, but sometimes I think we still undervalue everything he's done for this team. The guy has been the ultimate warrior. It's just insane how he's battled the last six years. It would be just depressing to see him go without a Cup.

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07-08-2013, 11:05 PM
  #368
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What hurts is they trade the 1st for Eminger and Washington took John Carlson. Then they took Kevin Marshall over PK Subban.

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07-08-2013, 11:08 PM
  #369
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It would be just depressing to see him go without a Cup.
We can trade him to a contending team at the deadline if we miss the playoffs again.

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07-08-2013, 11:37 PM
  #370
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I think you're the one missing the point. Finding a blue chip defender is not exactly easy to do when you don't have top 10 picks year after year. There is a huge luck factor involved in the draft.

It's not like Nashville knew they had a franchise defender on their hands when they took Weber. Same with Montreal and Subban...even Karlsson and Ottawa. They lucked into those players. They certainly didn't pick them with the expectations of them becoming stud defenders.

And the rest of them? Well, there's your top 10 picks. Doughty, Pietrangelo, OEL, etc.

You have two ways of obtaining a #1 defender through the draft: 1) suck and get a top five pick to get a 'sure thing' or 2) Get lucky with a later pick.

You increase your odds of "getting lucky" by drafting a higher volume of defenders. Just like you increase your odds of winning the lottery by purchasing a hundred tickets. We have finally started doing that, and look what has happened now. Suddenly we have Gostisbehere, Morin, and Hagg in the pipeline. Three years ago we had nothing. Give it another year or two, and maybe we'll end up with our very own Subban or Karlsson or Shattenkirk.

I'm not sure what you would rather the Flyers have done differently though. We weren't going to pass up on Couturier in '11. We didn't have any 1st rounders in '10 or '09. We took Sbisa in '08 and didn't get "lucky". We had no other choice but to take JVR in '07. And in '06 we took Giroux. Since the first lockout, the only pick you can really scrutinize (maybe) is Laughton, and that looks like a fantastic pick right now. So I'm not sure what your alternative would have been.
Oh boy, as much as I liked Sbisa ... Carlson ,Josi,Wiercioch and J.Schultz were all picked later.

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07-09-2013, 12:07 AM
  #371
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Hey, remember Denis Grebeshkov?
I rememeber that guy when he was in Manchester. He was scared of contact with the puck. yet they would keep sending him out there on the point on the PP. he would get pressured, turn the puck over and it usually went the other way for a 2 or 3 on 1 breakway.

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If we don't get Gagne, I'd prefer the kids fill the spot on the wing. Straka sounds great so far. Noebels may have a shot, Akeson, maybe McGinn. Got some options there.
I love Gagne, but I agree. I would rather give one of the kids a shot.

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07-09-2013, 05:26 AM
  #372
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What hurts is they trade the 1st for Eminger and Washington took John Carlson. Then they took Kevin Marshall over PK Subban.
Teams do things like that all the time. No big deal.

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07-09-2013, 07:59 AM
  #373
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What hurts is they trade the 1st for Eminger and Washington took John Carlson. Then they took Kevin Marshall over PK Subban.
don't worry. After playing 10 games for us a few years ago, CS claimed that Marshall will still develop into an NHL regular

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07-09-2013, 08:31 AM
  #374
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don't worry. After playing 10 games for us a few years ago, CS claimed that Marshall will still develop into an NHL regular
He was better than Lauridsen that people still insist should be penciled into the lineup.

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07-09-2013, 08:38 AM
  #375
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Originally Posted by CS View Post
He was better than Lauridsen that people still insist should be penciled into the lineup.
I really dont understand the love fest here for Lauridsen...the guy just isnt an NHL player and wont be in the near future. That said Kevin Marshall was even worse. **** that guy

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