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07-08-2013, 08:58 PM
  #451
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Originally Posted by Zil View Post
Trying to win a constant stream of one goal games is the definition of no margin for error.
How is AV going to help in that regard? Canucks fans say AVs biggest flaw is sitting on one goal leads. Your only as good as your talent level on the roster.

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07-08-2013, 09:15 PM
  #452
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How is AV going to help in that regard? Canucks fans say AVs biggest flaw is sitting on one goal leads. Your only as good as your talent level on the roster.
the problem with this roster not being talented jargon though, is the consensus that Torts didn't utilize them roster properly. Maybe Cally and Step are more offensively talented than we think, but they just can't utilize it? I feel that way about McDonagh.

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07-08-2013, 09:24 PM
  #453
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I merely wrote that his opinion on the same player changed with the passing of a single season. If you find this to be an obtuse observation I question your thought process.

Suppose you're still annoyed with me and you saw another opportunity to offer up an opinion not germane to the discussion in the hopes of trying to nail me at something.

I get it. You don't like me, but that poster is more than capable of defending his positions.
Maybe a little annoyed but not all that much. The point he was trying to make seemed obvious and that was that Prust despite all the fights was not really a goon and certainly not a heavyweight and at a major disadvantage against much bigger and stronger opponents some of whom are really only hanging onto their jobs to do the one thing they do best. Sometimes situations occur that cannot be avoided. You're the cop on the beat--charged with stopping crime but outgunned logistically. It's kind of the way I think about Dorsett when I hear people suggest that we got a fighter to take on all comers--then come back with the stats off the official page that he's 6' tall and not afraid of anybody and to them that's enough right there--it's all taken care of. It comes down to I want these guys to do the things they do. I don't want to see them get killed doing it.

As far as not liking you--I can be a bit off the cuff at times. Pull chains when I'm wondering whether mine are being pulled. We really don't know each other so I have no reason not to like you and after all you are a die hard.

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07-08-2013, 09:25 PM
  #454
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Originally Posted by billyhauntswizards View Post
the problem with this roster not being talented jargon though, is the consensus that Torts didn't utilize them roster properly. Maybe Cally and Step are more offensively talented than we think, but they just can't utilize it? I feel that way about McDonagh.
Agreed, although I think we'll see it much more on the blue line than our offensive guys.

I think some guys will be helped offensively (Kreider, Hagelin, possibly Richards, etc) but I think we're really going to see a boost on the offensive side from our D-Men.

That's truly what i'm most excited for. I think McD, Staal (pre-eye) and Del Zotto all have potential to be much better offensively than we've seen yet.

Del Zotto and McD should really flourish. If DZ doesnt, sign and trade him next year.

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07-08-2013, 10:01 PM
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Agreed, although I think we'll see it much more on the blue line than our offensive guys.

I think some guys will be helped offensively (Kreider, Hagelin, possibly Richards, etc) but I think we're really going to see a boost on the offensive side from our D-Men.

That's truly what i'm most excited for. I think McD, Staal (pre-eye) and Del Zotto all have potential to be much better offensively than we've seen yet.

Del Zotto and McD should really flourish. If DZ doesnt, sign and trade him next year.
Almost more excited about McD's offense. Cause you see he's capable of it, the way he walks the blue line and dekes out defenders, it's beautiful. Like where he yanked the puck away from Nazem Kadri and lasered it into the net against Toronto, can you imagine if he did that all the time?

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07-08-2013, 10:05 PM
  #456
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Originally Posted by billyhauntswizards View Post
the problem with this roster not being talented jargon though, is the consensus that Torts didn't utilize them roster properly. Maybe Cally and Step are more offensively talented than we think, but they just can't utilize it? I feel that way about McDonagh.
the consensus is picking on a scapegoat (Torts).....

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07-08-2013, 10:10 PM
  #457
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The thing that makes me question all this BS that this team is "so soft and not physical" all of a sudden, is that I truly believe Torts preached less toughness this season. You can see it with Haley and Mashinter, specifically. Haley comes in and starts hitting everyone and then gets in a fight and demolishes Chris Phillips. What after that? I barely heard his name after that fight.....Same with Mashinter. Guy was a ****ing monster in Hartford (out of nowhere I might add) and he was brought up to be a 4th liner. He HAS played in the NHL before so I really find it hard to believe a 4th liner just **** the bed in his Rangers debut.....You could see it in some of the players, there's NO WAY Cally would've let McD get railed like he did by Pacioretty......and I also find it hard to believe Asham started playing like a Lady Byng winner when he got to NYR by coincidence. He had like what 6 fights? The venom was almost sucked from this team entirely, and I just have a hard time believing it was a coincidence (although the constant roster turnover could play a part). Maybe Torts preached no retaliation because he had no faith in our PK? I could certainly see him doing that........

P.S. It certainly wont hurt to have Ulf "Kneeme" Samuelsson behind the bench preaching crease clearing and hitting...

P.S.S Think for a second..........would we really be having a pity party about our toughness if Toronto had won that game 7 and we faced them instead?

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07-08-2013, 10:11 PM
  #458
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
the consensus is picking on a scapegoat (Torts).....
I do believe he's scapegoated a bit too much but he absolutely should take some blame for his "collapse down low and give d-men all the room in the world to work with" system that simultaneously destroyed any offensive creativity we had.

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07-08-2013, 10:15 PM
  #459
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Originally Posted by billyhauntswizards View Post
I do believe he's scapegoated a bit too much but he absolutely should take some blame for his "collapse down low and give d-men all the room in the world to work with" system that simultaneously destroyed any offensive creativity we had.
I guess time will tell, but I blame a lot on the forwards for that collapsing play. A lot of the forwards on this roster cheat offensively and disregard defensive play.

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07-08-2013, 10:41 PM
  #460
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billyhauntswizards View Post
The thing that makes me question all this BS that this team is "so soft and not physical" all of a sudden, is that I truly believe Torts preached less toughness this season. You can see it with Haley and Mashinter, specifically. Haley comes in and starts hitting everyone and then gets in a fight and demolishes Chris Phillips. What after that? I barely heard his name after that fight.....Same with Mashinter. Guy was a ****ing monster in Hartford (out of nowhere I might add) and he was brought up to be a 4th liner. He HAS played in the NHL before so I really find it hard to believe a 4th liner just **** the bed in his Rangers debut.....You could see it in some of the players, there's NO WAY Cally would've let McD get railed like he did by Pacioretty......and I also find it hard to believe Asham started playing like a Lady Byng winner when he got to NYR by coincidence. He had like what 6 fights? The venom was almost sucked from this team entirely, and I just have a hard time believing it was a coincidence (although the constant roster turnover could play a part). Maybe Torts preached no retaliation because he had no faith in our PK? I could certainly see him doing that........

P.S. It certainly wont hurt to have Ulf "Kneeme" Samuelsson behind the bench preaching crease clearing and hitting...

P.S.S Think for a second..........would we really be having a pity party about our toughness if Toronto had won that game 7 and we faced them instead?


Great post, I think it dead on. Only thing I need to address is manshinter played in NHL and fought super heavey weights like Parros and beat them, then came up took a penalty vs Winnipeg And poof he was done getting ice time

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07-08-2013, 10:51 PM
  #461
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Originally Posted by billyhauntswizards View Post
The thing that makes me question all this BS that this team is "so soft and not physical" all of a sudden, is that I truly believe Torts preached less toughness this season. You can see it with Haley and Mashinter, specifically. Haley comes in and starts hitting everyone and then gets in a fight and demolishes Chris Phillips. What after that? I barely heard his name after that fight.....Same with Mashinter. Guy was a ****ing monster in Hartford (out of nowhere I might add) and he was brought up to be a 4th liner. He HAS played in the NHL before so I really find it hard to believe a 4th liner just **** the bed in his Rangers debut.....You could see it in some of the players, there's NO WAY Cally would've let McD get railed like he did by Pacioretty......and I also find it hard to believe Asham started playing like a Lady Byng winner when he got to NYR by coincidence. He had like what 6 fights? The venom was almost sucked from this team entirely, and I just have a hard time believing it was a coincidence (although the constant roster turnover could play a part). Maybe Torts preached no retaliation because he had no faith in our PK? I could certainly see him doing that........

P.S. It certainly wont hurt to have Ulf "Kneeme" Samuelsson behind the bench preaching crease clearing and hitting...

P.S.S Think for a second..........would we really be having a pity party about our toughness if Toronto had won that game 7 and we faced them instead?
We wouldn't have beaten Toronto either because we had problems with their speed and skill all season.

So now it was Tort's fault that we were soft and easy to play against?
The guy was the best coach the Ranger's have had here since Roger Neilson and all I see the last month or so is a bunch of lame excuses from fans blaming Tort's for everything from no retaliation, lousy pp, collapsing defense and ruining young players?

Did it ever dawn on anybody that the roster we presently have is filled with more holes than a lb of finlandia swiss cheese and softer than a vat full of carvel? I guess not!

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07-08-2013, 11:05 PM
  #462
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We wouldn't have beaten Toronto either because we had problems with their speed and skill all season.

So now it was Tort's fault that we were soft and easy to play against?
The guy was the best coach the Ranger's have had here since Roger Neilson and all I see the last month or so is a bunch of lame excuses from fans blaming Tort's for everything from no retaliation, lousy pp, collapsing defense and ruining young players?

Did it ever dawn on anybody that the roster we presently have is filled with more holes than a lb of finlandia swiss cheese and softer than a vat full of carvel? I guess not!
did you read anything I said?! It was a thought, based on evidence that is pretty solid. Because the whole the team's balls were cut off and fed to wolves act didn't just happen, I don't think anyone can attest to that. I didn't say this roster was perfect! I said NOTHING about powerplays (which are ABSOLUTELY his fault.) and all of those things you listed I said nothing about. Stick to the god damn subject at hand, and you have no intelligent retort, why'd you even write anything?

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Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
Great post, I think it dead on. Only thing I need to address is manshinter played in NHL and fought super heavey weights like Parros and beat them, then came up took a penalty vs Winnipeg And poof he was done getting ice time
I knew he was a very powerful heavyweight, but I was implying he was becoming a very good hockey player in the A. Scoring some big goals, big hits, and fights, wheras in the NHL and most of his AHL career he was just a heavyweight.

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07-08-2013, 11:06 PM
  #463
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and if I recall we beat Toronto twice. Their speed/skill didn't seem that probelmatic. Especially when DZ and Girardi having the worst nights of their careers in the same game literally cost us a win.

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07-08-2013, 11:38 PM
  #464
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Originally Posted by billyhauntswizards View Post
did you read anything I said?! It was a thought, based on evidence that is pretty solid. Because the whole the team's balls were cut off and fed to wolves act didn't just happen, I don't think anyone can attest to that. I didn't say this roster was perfect! I said NOTHING about powerplays (which are ABSOLUTELY his fault.) and all of those things you listed I said nothing about. Stick to the god damn subject at hand, and you have no intelligent retort, why'd you even write anything?
I didn't attribute all of the excuses to you and only you! Why don't you re-read what I wrote and stick to the facts that I brought up?

Personally, I'm tired of reading all the stupid ******** that fans post here trashing Torts. The bottom line is this team which has had a flawed roster for as long as I can remember basically overachieved in 2011/12 in getting to the conference final and also in getting last year's team to the semi final.

Had Tort's coaching reign run it's course here? Yes.

Why do I bother writing anything here? I do it when I read a post here that is filled with hyperbole and nonsense that demands a reply!

Got it now chief?

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07-08-2013, 11:46 PM
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Originally Posted by billyhauntswizards View Post
and if I recall we beat Toronto twice. Their speed/skill didn't seem that probelmatic. Especially when DZ and Girardi having the worst nights of their careers in the same game literally cost us a win.
You're wrong! Their speed, skill and physicality was very problematic for us and Phil Kessel was easily the best player on the ice when we played Toronto last year.

While Toronto's defense which cost them a win in game #7 vs Boston is still somewhat suspect, They've improved their roster a lot by adding Bernier in goal and Bolland and Clarkson to an already potent offense.

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07-08-2013, 11:50 PM
  #466
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Great post, I think it dead on. Only thing I need to address is manshinter played in NHL and fought super heavey weights like Parros and beat them, then came up took a penalty vs Winnipeg And poof he was done getting ice time
Torts ********* players through manipulation of ice time and favoritism. Our team had no backbone because Torts didn't want it to have one. He came here with his stupid team unity tactics only to intimidate players from playing that very same style.

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07-08-2013, 11:54 PM
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Torts ********* players through manipulation of ice time and favoritism. Our team had no backbone because Torts didn't want it to have one.
Not for nothing, all coaches play the manipulation of ice time and favortism card. It's an m.o. of coaches in all sports going back to the dawn of time.

Did you not read the caustic comments of Grabovski last week trashing Randy Carlyle who is generally acknowledged as a good coach?

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07-08-2013, 11:57 PM
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I didn't attribute all of the excuses to you and only you! Why don't you re-read what I wrote and stick to the facts that I brought up?

Personally, I'm tired of reading all the stupid ******** that fans post here trashing Torts. The bottom line is this team which has had a flawed roster for as long as I can remember basically overachieved in 2011/12 in getting to the conference final and also in getting last year's team to the semi final.

Had Tort's coaching reign run it's course here? Yes.

Why do I bother writing anything here? I do it when I read a post here that is filled with hyperbole and nonsense that demands a reply!

Got it now chief?
exactly, let's see how Scotty Bowman can coach a team with 2 major roster overhauls in a 48 game span. Too much pressure put on Torts for roster to replicate last yrs success.

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07-09-2013, 12:01 AM
  #469
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Not for nothing, all coaches play the manipulation of ice time and favortism card. It's an m.o. of coaches in all sports going back to the dawn of time.

Did you not read the caustic comments of Grabovski last week trashing Randy Carlyle who is generally acknowledged as a good coach?
When your team is not physical to begin with it is asinine to inhibit a physical newcomer (rookie, call up, etc) and threaten mistakes or chippy play.

Grabovski's a clown. What is the relevance of his incidents?

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07-09-2013, 12:05 AM
  #470
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Not for nothing, all coaches play the manipulation of ice time and favortism card. It's an m.o. of coaches in all sports going back to the dawn of time.

Did you not read the caustic comments of Grabovski last week trashing Randy Carlyle who is generally acknowledged as a good coach?
My problem with Torts and his favoritism crap was that his extended to not putting players in the best position to succeed. Yeah there were games where Gabby sucked but moving him to the 4th line didn't solve ANYTHING. And with Kreider, people say he should earn his spot, but I see it as a catch 22. He's a player that has to be in the top 6 to succeed, burying him in the bottom 6 doesn't solve anything and doesn't make him a better hockey player. Torts did that with established veterans and that always annoyed me about him. As a coach, you ALWAYS put your players in the best position they can be in, you can't set them up for failure (like putting Haley on a line with Stepan....?).

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07-09-2013, 05:20 AM
  #471
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Originally Posted by billyhauntswizards View Post
The thing that makes me question all this BS that this team is "so soft and not physical" all of a sudden, is that I truly believe Torts preached less toughness this season. You can see it with Haley and Mashinter, specifically. Haley comes in and starts hitting everyone and then gets in a fight and demolishes Chris Phillips. What after that? I barely heard his name after that fight.....Same with Mashinter. Guy was a ****ing monster in Hartford (out of nowhere I might add) and he was brought up to be a 4th liner. He HAS played in the NHL before so I really find it hard to believe a 4th liner just **** the bed in his Rangers debut.....You could see it in some of the players, there's NO WAY Cally would've let McD get railed like he did by Pacioretty......and I also find it hard to believe Asham started playing like a Lady Byng winner when he got to NYR by coincidence. He had like what 6 fights? The venom was almost sucked from this team entirely, and I just have a hard time believing it was a coincidence (although the constant roster turnover could play a part). Maybe Torts preached no retaliation because he had no faith in our PK? I could certainly see him doing that........

P.S. It certainly wont hurt to have Ulf "Kneeme" Samuelsson behind the bench preaching crease clearing and hitting...

P.S.S Think for a second..........would we really be having a pity party about our toughness if Toronto had won that game 7 and we faced them instead?
Haley and Mashinter not getting enough ice time showed you Torts was a bad coach who either did not understand their value or was sabotaging the team?

If Mashinter had lost that fight would he be less valuable?

If they are valuable, some smarter organization will have them playing real minutes real soon. Haley couldn't even stick on an Islanders roster that has more openings than most.

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07-09-2013, 08:22 AM
  #472
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Great post, I think it dead on. Only thing I need to address is manshinter played in NHL and fought super heavey weights like Parros and beat them, then came up took a penalty vs Winnipeg And poof he was done getting ice time
Mashinter was directly responsible for 2 goals against (and a loss) with brutal defensive zone turnovers in that game against Winnipeg. Impressive with 3 minutes of icetime. He handled the puck like a hand grenade and seemed completely overwhelmed by the speed of the NHL - like most players you tend to advocate for.

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07-09-2013, 08:24 AM
  #473
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Haley and Mashinter weren't going to get regular minutes or shifts. They really weren't auditioning for real spots--they were filling in for missing players. Beyond that--Torts did the same with Ferreiro, Miller, Kreider, Newbury and even Thomas for his one game. When he didn't know players well he didn't play them much. When he hasn't seen a player do something like pk he's reluctant to use him in that capacity. Dorsett is an example. Didn't start playing until the playoffs. He was supposedly a very good pk'er in Columbus. He didn't kill any for us in the playoffs even with the pk struggling. In respect of these situations I think sometimes Torts was overly cautious. Whether he deserved to be canned is another subject but I don't think his treatment of Haley or Mashinter was inconsistent with the way he handled his team at all.

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07-09-2013, 08:50 AM
  #474
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Mashinter was directly responsible for 2 goals against (and a loss) with brutal defensive zone turnovers in that game against Winnipeg. Impressive with 3 minutes of icetime. He handled the puck like a hand grenade and seemed completely overwhelmed by the speed of the NHL - like most players you tend to advocate for.
You know what BRB I am really getting feed up with your remarks when you are really clueless. Did you happen to ever read my favorite Ranger was Dubbie? or that my favorite prospect is Kreider? MCD is the guy I spent money to get a jersey ? no only thing you read is dagoon likes guys that fight. Move on buy a clue or go away

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07-09-2013, 08:54 AM
  #475
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You know what BRB I am really getting feed up with your remarks when you are really clueless. Did you happen to ever read my favorite Ranger was Dubbie? or that my favorite prospect is Kreider? MCD is the guy I spent money to get a jersey ? no only thing you read is dagoon likes guys that fight. Move on buy a clue or go away
The point I was making was less about you loving goons, and more about you completely lying about what happened with Mashinter.

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